All the ELECT please stand up

[Grailhunter]

If he is the puppet that makes Christ the puppet master or slave master. Horror films are made on this topic.
Slaves made up the early Christians, I don't they would take to this. Calvin dreamed this nightmare up a
long time after Christ's ministry. As I said before, Calvin was a good historical example of a genius that was
insane. A very sickly person, both mind and body....guess God did not like him much.

 

[Kermos]

...snip...

Woe to you free willers because you are blind to God's Sovereignty in man's salvation leading the blind (Matthew 15:14)!

Woe to you free willers being incapable of discerning Truth in your own free will (John 14:6, Hebrews 5:14, Romans 1:22-24)!

Woe to you free willers because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves (Matthew 23:15)!

Woe to you free willers for choosing a false god (Exodus 20:3-5)!

Woe to you free willers who say "I chose God" for you witness against yourselves (Joshua 24:19-22, Matthew 12:34-37, John 15:16)!

Woe to you free willers because you do not believe the Son of God's "apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) thus rendering yourselves in disobedience to the wrath of God (John 3:36)!

Woe to you free willers who claim to have chosen Jesus in direct opposition to Lord Jesus Christ's words "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) which is applicable to all believers in all time!

Woe to you free willers who do not read the content of the links below which lead to much edifying Word of God quotes and citations that declare the Sovereignty Of God in man's salvation! The blood of free willers is on their own hands, may God have mercy on free willers souls!

The Word of God, quoted in the following links, reveals that freewill is a treacherously rebellious and damnable lie.

These posts of this thread remain true, accurate, legitimate, legal, and Godly:

- "The Righteous Sovereignty Of God Post" (in this thread)

- "The Audience Of Lord Jesus For John 14:16 And John 15:16 Are All Dicsiples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "Matthias And Joseph In Exhibit 7 With The Lord Jesus And The Apostles 'All the Time' Post" (in this thread)

- "The Logic Statement (IF/THEN) Eliminating Any Question Of The Audience For The Supper Recorded In John Chapters 13-17 Being All Disciples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "The Repentance Is From God Not Conjured Up In Man By Man Post" (in this thread)

- "The Biblical Definition of Disciple Includes More People Than The 12 Apostles Post" (in this thread)

- "The Audience, Salvation, And 'I chose you' Words of Lord Jesus In John 15:16 and John 15:19 Post" (in this thread)

- "Lord Jesus Describes Part Of His Essence/Character - God Alone Chooses In Salvation Doctrine Post" (in this thread)

- "The Genesis 1:31, Genesis 2:16-17, and Joshua 24:15 Reveal The Sovereignty Of God In Man's Salvation Post" (in this thread)

- "The Addendum to Genesis 1:31, Genesis 2:16-17 Post Explaining Absence Of Choose Conjugate As Well As IF/THEN Application In Genesis 1-3 Post" (in this thread)

The Wonderful Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), and Jesus, Who is Lord, says "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever" (John 14:16), and Jesus, my Lord and my God, speaks these things to all His sheep of all time, and He has chosen we believers and He has given us believers the Holy Spirit!

 

[Helen]

I was just this morning thinking about indoctrination and how odd it is.

Sometimes (actually fairly often) a person will come into my shop and say, if you have a minute, I'd like to share something with you. Its happened enough times now that I immediately place a bet in my head like, I'm going to put down fifty on Jehovah's Witness.

So I say, sure, I have a minute!

Then they say, do you know God loves you very much?

I say, oh yes! I met God in '06!

And they get a puzzled look on their face. And after a second, they say, oh...that's nice...But do you know God loves you very much??!

And then, I'm the one with a puzzled look on my face!

They have been indoctrinated and given a script to go out with. And if YOU don't follow the script, they don't know what do except say the first line of the script again...

Its a little spooky.

I haven't figured out yet what it is they expect me to say, but I know by the look on their face that my response confused them.

Yes, all cults are through one man as leader, and the rest 'sticking to the script' that he told them to follow. Pretty sad.

 

[Kermos]

If he is the puppet that makes Christ the puppet master or slave master. Horror films are made on this topic.
...snip

Woe to you free willers because in your heart you wrongfully claim the place of the Potter and disparage the Potter's blessed work (Isaiah 64:8, Romans 9:20-24)!

Woe to you free willers because you are blind to God's Sovereignty in man's salvation leading the blind (Matthew 15:14)!

Woe to you free willers being incapable of discerning Truth in your own free will (John 14:6, Hebrews 5:14, Romans 1:22-24)!

Woe to you free willers because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves (Matthew 23:15)!

Woe to you free willers for choosing a false god (Exodus 20:3-5)!

Woe to you free willers who say "I chose God" for you witness against yourselves (Joshua 24:19-22, Matthew 12:34-37, John 15:16)!

Woe to you free willers because you do not believe the Son of God's "apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) thus rendering yourselves in disobedience to the wrath of God (John 3:36)!

Woe to you free willers who claim to have chosen Jesus in direct opposition to Lord Jesus Christ's words "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) which is applicable to all believers in all time!

Woe to you free willers who do not read the content of the links below which lead to much edifying Word of God quotes and citations that declare the Sovereignty Of God in man's salvation! The blood of free willers is on their own hands, may God have mercy on free willers souls!

The Word of God, quoted in the following links, reveals that freewill is a treacherously rebellious and damnable lie.

These posts of this thread remain true, accurate, legitimate, legal, and Godly:

- "The Righteous Sovereignty Of God Post" (in this thread)

- "The Audience Of Lord Jesus For John 14:16 And John 15:16 Are All Dicsiples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "Matthias And Joseph In Exhibit 7 With The Lord Jesus And The Apostles 'All the Time' Post" (in this thread)

- "The Logic Statement (IF/THEN) Eliminating Any Question Of The Audience For The Supper Recorded In John Chapters 13-17 Being All Disciples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "The Repentance Is From God Not Conjured Up In Man By Man Post" (in this thread)

- "The Biblical Definition of Disciple Includes More People Than The 12 Apostles Post" (in this thread)

- "The Audience, Salvation, And 'I chose you' Words of Lord Jesus In John 15:16 and John 15:19 Post" (in this thread)

- "Lord Jesus Describes Part Of His Essence/Character - God Alone Chooses In Salvation Doctrine Post" (in this thread)

- "The Genesis 1:31, Genesis 2:16-17, and Joshua 24:15 Reveal The Sovereignty Of God In Man's Salvation Post" (in this thread)

- "The Addendum to Genesis 1:31, Genesis 2:16-17 Post Explaining Absence Of Choose Conjugate As Well As IF/THEN Application In Genesis 1-3 Post" (in this thread)

The Wonderful Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), and Jesus, Who is Lord, says "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever" (John 14:16), and Jesus, my Lord and my God, speaks these things to all His sheep of all time, and He has chosen we believers and He has given us believers the Holy Spirit!

 

[Grailhunter]

Woe to you poor puppets. And shame on you to think that God would think of such a diabolical scenario. Slaves and mind control, wow.
Do think the Nazis were Calvinists?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Woe to you free willers because in your heart you wrongfully claim the place of the Potter and disparage the Potter's blessed work (Isaiah 64:8, Romans 9:20-24)!

Woe to you free willers because you are blind to God's Sovereignty in man's salvation leading the blind (Matthew 15:14)!

Woe to you free willers being incapable of discerning Truth in your own free will (John 14:6, Hebrews 5:14, Romans 1:22-24)!

Woe to you free willers because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves (Matthew 23:15)!

Woe to you free willers for choosing a false god (Exodus 20:3-5)!

Woe to you free willers who say "I chose God" for you witness against yourselves (Joshua 24:19-22, Matthew 12:34-37, John 15:16)!

Woe to you free willers because you do not believe the Son of God's "apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) thus rendering yourselves in disobedience to the wrath of God (John 3:36)!

Woe to you free willers who claim to have chosen Jesus in direct opposition to Lord Jesus Christ's words "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) which is applicable to all believers in all time!

Woe to you free willers who do not read the content of the links below which lead to much edifying Word of God quotes and citations that declare the Sovereignty Of God in man's salvation! The blood of free willers is on their own hands, may God have mercy on free willers souls!

The Word of God, quoted in the following links, reveals that freewill is a treacherously rebellious and damnable lie.

These posts of this thread remain true, accurate, legitimate, legal, and Godly:

- "The Righteous Sovereignty Of God Post" (in this thread)

- "The Audience Of Lord Jesus For John 14:16 And John 15:16 Are All Dicsiples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "Matthias And Joseph In Exhibit 7 With The Lord Jesus And The Apostles 'All the Time' Post" (in this thread)

- "The Logic Statement (IF/THEN) Eliminating Any Question Of The Audience For The Supper Recorded In John Chapters 13-17 Being All Disciples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "The Repentance Is From God Not Conjured Up In Man By Man Post" (in this thread)

- "The Biblical Definition of Disciple Includes More People Than The 12 Apostles Post" (in this thread)

- "The Audience, Salvation, And 'I chose you' Words of Lord Jesus In John 15:16 and John 15:19 Post" (in this thread)

- "Lord Jesus Describes Part Of His Essence/Character - God Alone Chooses In Salvation Doctrine Post" (in this thread)

- "The Genesis 1:31, Genesis 2:16-17, and Joshua 24:15 Reveal The Sovereignty Of God In Man's Salvation Post" (in this thread)

- "The Addendum to Genesis 1:31, Genesis 2:16-17 Post Explaining Absence Of Choose Conjugate As Well As IF/THEN Application In Genesis 1-3 Post" (in this thread)

The Wonderful Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), and Jesus, Who is Lord, says "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever" (John 14:16), and Jesus, my Lord and my God, speaks these things to all His sheep of all time, and He has chosen we believers and He has given us believers the Holy Spirit!

I'm certain I've heard this somewhere before...

 

[amadeus]

My wife lamented today:

If people really love God, why would they be so upset at the idea that He chose them and that He's in control?

It is such a horrifing thing that so very many free will people think that they chose Jesus, yet they march down the wide way to destruction.

If we are really choosing the wide way of destruction rather than the narrow strait way to Life, we are choosing aren't we, even though you are saying that ultimately we have no choice.?

 

[amadeus]

You did not reply to my two scenarios....how come?
Why would God put two persons in a nice garden and give them directions as to NOT EATING the forbidden fruit...IF He had already predestinated them to eat it?

When you are give A CHOICE....you use your free will to make that choice.
Excuse me...you don't have free will...but the rest of us do.

If I tell you to choose between two items....it means you have THE ABILITY to make that choice. If you DID NOT, why would I ask you to make the choice?
Do you not realize that your theology makes no sense?

You said only actions take place in the Garden.
Right. Eve DECIDED TO EAT THE FRUIT.
Free will means she could have DECIDED NOT TO.
Free will means you make a choice of something when another choice would have been possible.

You should study up on libertarian free will since THIS is what God has granted us.

Your view of free will, which is compatiblist, is a sick version of free will that only an unloving and puppettering God would use.

It's impossible to explain away free biblical will.
How do you explain Jesus crying over Jerusalem because THEY WOULD NOT COME TO HIM.....Implying that they COULD HAVE come to Him but decided NOT TO.
Mathew 24:37

WHY does Jesus tell some to depart from Him in Mathew 7:23 because they were lawless? IF GOD MADE THEM LAWLESS, why would a just God now bannish them for doing what HE programmed them to do?

PLEASE answer these questions...I've noticed that you have 3 or 4 pet verses,,,but the bible is FULL of verses that deny what you believe.



Please study up on English.
IF YOU WALK ON THE MOON TOMORROW NIGHT...
IMPLIES...
That you MAY NOT walk on the moon tomorrow night.
It conveys A CHOICE.
True or False has nothing to do with the above.


IF one is either A SLAVE TO RIGHTEOUNESS
or
A SLAVE TO SIN
You have ONCE AGAIN, created a choice.
Choice denotes free will.

And please stop with John 15:16.
Didn't your church teach you any other verses to debate?
You should know by now that it's referring to the Apostles.
I gave you two commentaries...could you give me just ONE that is not Calvinistic?
No, you cannot.


Maybe it's called ACTS OF THE APOSTLES because they ACTED on their belief?
Maybe because they CHOSE to become saved and were persecuted for it...and travelled the world to preach the gospel...

WHY preach the gospel if GOD already predestinated who will be saved??


You are misquoting me so I will not answer the above.
Your same old verses are posted because you know no others.

God will decide who is deceitful.
God will decide who has misrepresented Him in a most ugly way.

Please reply to my verses above,,,
if you can.

Indeed and Jesus also made clear that still we have the two choices:

"No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." Matt 6:24

We have those choices while time remains to us... no matter what correct or erroneous choices we have previously made.

 

[amadeus]

Thus is is the Word of God: "apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5).

Therefore, no person can get to the narrow gate without the Power of God, Who said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

That puts all free willers on the wide road to destruction.

"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:5

Exactly so! Without Jesus we have chosen nothingness which is where everyone without Jesus and God will remain, which means no where. This is the destination of those who choose the wide gate of destruction as Paul also clarifies here:

"And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing." I Cor 13:2-3

God has always left the way open for a person to choose the wrong way and most people choose it. Deciding that there is no choice is also a choice. What it means to God depends upon what is in our hearts when we make that choice:

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

 

[CharismaticLady]

My wife knows that she is loved by the Potter. My wife knows that she is clay formed for honorable use. My wife knows the Sovereignty of God in man's salvation. My wife knows and hears our Shepherd's voice. I amd My wife know that she is a daughter of God.

My wife believes Lord Jesus for He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

You do not know what love is, for you deny Lord Jesus' words! God is love, and God imparts this love upon the children of God! The children of God adore the Word of God, and the Word of God said "apart from Me you can do nothing" - not even believe on Lord Jesus Christ which is the work of God!

My wife understands that apart from an act of God, free willers are destined to eternal fire.

Great, then all her prayers are answered?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Do you know...I had never read an exact definition of what heresy is! And honestly, I believe I am a heretic...I quite literally do not agree with a lot that is generally accepted. Hmmm...

I know how you feel! LOL I've even been called one.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Woe to you free willers because you do not believe the Son of God's "apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) thus rendering yourselves in disobedience to the wrath of God (John 3:36)!

Woe to you free willers who claim to have chosen Jesus in direct opposition to Lord Jesus Christ's words "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) which is applicable to all believers in all time!

Woe to you free willers who do not read the content of the links below which lead to much edifying Word of God quotes and citations that declare the Sovereignty Of God in man's salvation! The blood of free willers is on their own hands, may God have mercy on free willers souls!

The Word of God, quoted in the following links, reveals that freewill is a treacherously rebellious and damnable lie.

These posts of this thread remain true, accurate, legitimate, legal, and Godly:

- "The Righteous Sovereignty Of God Post" (in this thread)

- "The Audience Of Lord Jesus For John 14:16 And John 15:16 Are All Dicsiples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "Matthias And Joseph In Exhibit 7 With The Lord Jesus And The Apostles 'All the Time' Post" (in this thread)

- "The Logic Statement (IF/THEN) Eliminating Any Question Of The Audience For The Supper Recorded In John Chapters 13-17 Being All Disciples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "The Repentance Is From God Not Conjured Up In Man By Man Post" (in this thread)

- "The Biblical Definition of Disciple Includes More People Than The 12 Apostles Post" (in this thread)

- "The Audience, Salvation, And 'I chose you' Words of Lord Jesus In John 15:16 and John 15:19 Post" (in this thread)

- "Lord Jesus Describes Part Of His Essence/Character - God Alone Chooses In Salvation Doctrine Post" (in this thread)

- "The Genesis 1:31, Genesis 2:16-17, and Joshua 24:15 Reveal The Sovereignty Of God In Man's Salvation Post" (in this thread)

- "The Addendum to Genesis 1:31, Genesis 2:16-17 Post Explaining Absence Of Choose Conjugate As Well As IF/THEN Application In Genesis 1-3 Post" (in this thread)

The Wonderful Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), and Jesus, Who is Lord, says "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever" (John 14:16), and Jesus, my Lord and my God, speaks these things to all His sheep of all time, and He has chosen we believers and He has given us believers the Holy Spirit!

You say we will always be in the flesh and sin. Why would I want to study a false teacher???

 

[stunnedbygrace]

THANK YOU for the voice of sanity!! I thought I was Alice, and had fallen down the rabbit hole!

Sadly it now shows us clearly that none of them are here to 'show us the right way' in the spirit of The Shepherd . They have no intention in redemption of us poor fools. But just to gloat and point the fingers ....so I will just put them all back on IGNORE where I had them all, until this week. Sad.

We are supposed to all have the same common Enemy and close ranks on evil. Yet they seem to hate everyone except themselves. I had been told that Calvinists were like that....but I had never seen it proved until now.

View attachment 6624

I have some thoughts on two things that were said. The first is on something grailhunter said and the second on something you said, ByGrace.

Grailhunter said, he has no choice but to believe if something bad happens to him, that God did it.

When I knew God for a while, I came to a point where I thought of everything that came to me, whether it seemed good to me or bad to me, as being from Him. Not always that He caused it, but rather that He permitted it and if I would just continue to trust Him, He would show me why and would work even it to the good of my soul.

Its a slightly different way of seeing if you see and continue in trust.

The second one is that I have met some people who agree with Calvin on a lot and they are not hateful as some here are. I even considered if I might be called a Calvinist at one time.

I kind of see that I had no freewill to turn to God. He first had to draw me and also heal my blindness so that I could even see He existed.

However, after that, I do have some freewill. I face choices sometimes many times in a day in which I have the freewill, now that I can see, to choose either trust or worry, to choose either what God says is true or what the world says is true.

So I can somewhat understand saying I had no freewill to choose God.

 

[Grailhunter]

So what you are saying is that mind control and slavery is not hateful. That it makes sense. Again an insult to God. I mean really
you could consider the Nazi thing! They thought they were the elite and believed in control, even mind control. Next to the Jehovah's
witness and the Moon's the Calvinists hold their own in child interventions. I was involved in one, where the children were passing
notes in church and were turned in. They finally escaped. Some are not that lucky. It is a horrible belief system that produces
sadness and is a insult to God. It would be nothing but cruel to create a planet of puppets and then blaming them for what they do!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You are perhaps being as unreasonable in conversation now as they are in here.

 

[Grailhunter]

We live in an age where telling the truth is a bad thing. Sorry I offended you.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

We live in an age where telling the truth is a bad thing. Sorry I offended you.

No way sweetie, you didn't offend me!

I just wonder if you thoughtfully read what I wrote or if you kneejerked a little bit. That's all.

 

[Grailhunter]

Thank you for the sweetie! And back at you. More to come.

 

[Grailhunter]

So give me your thoughts... If you notice I do not do the battling scriptures thing on this topic. I have been debating for a while. On
this topic there is enough scriptures to support the belief that God can control things. But this puppet thing is wrong. There are also
scriptures that say you have to hate your father and mother to be a disciple of Christ....that you have to give up all own and have to
be disciple of Christ...that the wealthy are going to hell...that from the beginning of time only 144,000 will go to heaven. You have to
be careful about making the horrible part of your religion. Besides that there are several dozen scriptures that indicate directly or indirectly
that we have a choice. So let me hear your thought and I will be sweet as pie, I promise

 

[Episkopos]

OK So who is this Free Willy guy? (...just noticed this thread. )