All the ELECT please stand up

[Kermos]

Woe to human volition toward God advocates who say that they can do the opposite of the Word of God despite the very Word of God indicating the impossiblity for man (Matthew 19:25-26, John 15:5, John 15:16)!

Prior posted 'woe to you free willers' (in this thread)

The Word of God, quoted in the following links, reveals freewill is treacherously rebellious and a damnable lie.

These posts of this thread remain true, accurate, legitimate, legal, and Godly:

- The Righteous Sovereignty Of God Post

- The Audience Of Lord Jesus For John 14:16 And John 15:16 Are All Dicsiples In All Time Post

- Matthias And Joseph In Exhibit 7 With The Lord Jesus And The Apostles "All the Time" Post

- The Logic Statement (IF/THEN) Eliminating Any Question Of The Audience For The Supper Recorded In John Chapters 13-17 Being All Disciples In All Time Post

- (1) The Twelve mentioned in Matthew 26:20 et. al. does not indicate "only" the twelve, (2) Lord Jesus indicates in John 17:20 that the content of John chapters 13-17 applies to all His disciples of all time, and (3) the "you" in John 14:16 and the "you" in John 15:16 refer to all the disciples of Jesus in all time because of the about 120 recorded in Acts 1:15 and Acts 2:1-4 receiving the Holy Spirit as well as the Gentiles at Cornelius' place recorded in Acts 10:44 receiving the Holy Spirit Post

- The Repentance Is From God Not Conjured Up In Man By Man Post

- The Biblical Definition of Disciple Includes More People Than The 12 Apostles Post

- The Audience, Salvation, And 'I chose you' Words of Lord Jesus In John 15:16 and John 15:19 Post

- The God Chooses/Elects Unto Salvation Post

- Lord Jesus Describes Part Of His Essence/Character - God Alone Chooses In Salvation Doctrine Post

- The Genesis 1:31, Genesis 2:16-17, and Joshua 24:15 Reveal The Sovereignty Of God In Man's Salvation Post

- Addendum to Genesis 1:31, Genesis 2:16-17 Post Explaining Absence Of Choose Conjugate As Well As IF/THEN Application In Genesis 1-3 Post

- 1 Timothy 2:4 Exposited Truthfully That The Work Is Not Of Man Rather The Work Is Of God Post

- Demonstrating "Whole World" Indicates Multiple Meanings Regarding People In First John Where Two Starkly Differing Uses Of "World" Occur (1 John 2:2 and 1 John 5:19) Post

- The Further Use Of "World" Exposited Truthfully Demonstrating That Belief/Faith In A Believer Is A Work of God - John 3:16 and John 6:29 and John 15:16 Post

- The Intrinsic Quality of Christ Jesus includes God Choosing People for Salvation Not Vice Versa Post

- The Blessed Assurance of True Godly Worship and Love Post

- The Blood of Christ Being The Wedding Garment in Matthew 22:1-14 Post

- Both the promise of the Holy Spirit and the declaration by Lord Jesus that God chooses people not people choosing God occur in the self-same supper encounter described by the Apostle John in chapters 13 - 17 Post

Free-Will Doctrinal Error Amplified By Faulty English Translations And Free-Willian Lust For Glory In Salvation Exposed:

+ "@Taken: Do Not Be Taken Away In Free-will Error By Faulty English Translations (Includes Faulty Change Covenant To Agreement Rebuttal) Post

+ @GodsGrace: List of Lies About History Post

+ @GodsGrace: Illegally Try To Shoehorn 'Choose' Into John 3:16 Post

+ @GodsGrace: The Majesty of God in Matthew 6:13 - God leads, God delivers; God's Power Forever, God's Glory Forever Post

+ @CNKW3: Beholding Greek of 1 Peter 1:21-22 to see "God the souls of you having-purified in the obedience of-the truth" NOT people purifying themselves RATHER God purifying people Post

+ @CNKW3: Vessels Of Mercy Obey God In God's Power Versus Vessels Of Destruction Deny God's Word In Their Own Sin Post

+ @CNKW3: Persists In Denial Of The Word Of God By CNKW3 Trying To Make The Apostle Peter Say Different Than Lord Jesus Post

+ @CNKW3: More About Phrases About God's Control Sandwiching The Free-will Illusion Phrase Of The English Mistranslations of 1 Peter 1:22 Post

+ @CNKW3: More About Verses About The Promise Of The Holy Spirit To All Believers In All Time Presented By Lord Jesus At The Supper Recorded In John Chapters 13-17 With The Implications Of Jesus Saying 'You' In John 15:16 Post

+ @CNKW3: More Proof That The Word 'IF' Does Not Denote Ability Post

+ @CNKW3: Obey Defined Is 'To Fulfill The Command' - There Is No 'Choice' In The Definition With Scriptural Support For 'Believe' Not 'Choose To Believe' Post

+ @Enoch111: Fails to Understand 'Receive' Definition While Fails To Understand Acts 2 While Failing To Understand John 3:16 Post

Returning to more of the Word of God, quoted in the following links, revealing freewill devotee's treachery and rebellion.

- God Blesses Us With Biblical History, And Free Willians/Pelagians/Armenians Fail To Understand History Post

- A Command Does Not Convey Ability To Carry Out The Command Post

- Squelching the Armenian Argument Of 'God specifically chooses to send some persons to hell' Post

- The Word of God Eliminates WORKS RIGHTEOUSNESS Post

- The Apostle Peter Reiterates The Promise Of The Holy Spirit For All Believers In All Time (Acts 2:38-39 and Acts 2:18) That Lord Jesus Gave (John 15:26) Post

- All NT Letters Are To Believers So The Holy Spirit Gives Perspective In Hebrews 2:9 And "whosoever" Is Absent From Revelation 22:17

- We Believers Are Adopted In (Ephesians 1:5), Grafted In (Romans 11:17), Birthed In To The Kingdom Of God (John 3:3, John 3:5)

God saves by God's grace for God's glory! Praise the Lord Jesus!

 

[Kermos]

Continued from this post

GOD IS THE SOURCE OF MAN'S GOOD DEEDS ALSO KNOWN AS GOOD WORKS ALSO KNOWN AS FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT: The Apostle Jesus, Lord and God (John 20:28), disagrees with "I did good of choosing Jesus" free-willians when He says
- JESUS' WORDS "But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21).
- JESUS' WORDS "No one is good except God alone" (Mark 4:18)
- JESUS' WORDS "men loved the darkness rather than the Light" (John 3:19)
- JESUS' WORDS "everyone who does evil hates the Light" (John 3:20)
- JESUS' WORDS "In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men" (John 1:4)
- JESUS' WORDS "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me" (John 14:6)
Crucial Points:
1) Jesus is the Light (John 1:4).
2) Uncoverted men and women love the darkeness rather than the Light (John 3:19)
3) Only God is good, so men and women are evil; therefore, in men and women's uncoverted state they are incapable of coming to the Light (Mark 4:18, John 3:19, John 3:20, John 14:6).
4) The person, he or she that "comes to the Light" exhibits fruit of the Spirit for "comes to the Light" is "wrought in God" (John 3:21).
We believers acknowledging Jesus evidences the presence of the Spirit of God within us believers which is the fruit of the Spirit of truth of us practicing the truth (acknowledging); therefore, when any of us believers in Jesus "practices the truth" then these deeds "may be manifested as having been wrought in God - BEHOLD, NOT WROUGHT IN MAN - NO - TRULY, WROUGHT IN GOD! Thus these deeds, theses works, these fruits are good (Matthew 7:17). Lord Jesus is the Power of God that sought us believers (Luke 19:10) and bought us believers (Matthew 20:28) for Himself thus He owns us believers (John 10:14) all by the Power of God bringing us into joyous union with our Savior (1 Peter 1:3) for we can do nothing apart from our Lord Jesus (John 15:5)!

GOD KNOWS THE CHOSEN/ELECT BY NAME: The Apostle John disagrees with "Jesus does not know specifically who are His own" free-willians when he wrote "only those whose names are written" "in the book of life from the foundation of the world" in "written in the book of life from the foundation of the world" (Revelation 17:8) and "nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life" (Revelation 21:27) thus God knows the names of the individuals that are God's from the foundation of the world, so there is no surprise for God which persons are elect.

GOD CHOOSES PEOPLE UNTO SALVATION: The Apostle Jesus, Lord and God (John 20:28), disagrees with "I choose Jesus" free-willians when He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) along with "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20) thus the Word of God speaking to people currently following Him in the past tense such that all believers hearing His voice recognize the inability to choose Him, so this applies ot all believers in all time; on the other hand, there is the debate that the aorist verb in Greek can be past, present, and future which would still make these words of Lord Jesus applicable to all believers in all time.

GOD WILLPOWERS SALVATION INTO MAN - NOT MAN WILLPOWERING SALVATION INTO HIMSELF: The Apostle John disagrees with "I willed Jesus into my life" free-willians when he wrote "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, [even] to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13). John kindly tells us believers who are born of God, not born of blood, not born of the willpower, not born of the flesh, not born of the willpower of man, we believers are born of God (John 3:3-8) that our very belief is the work of God to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent (John 6:29) that Lord Jesus gave the right to become children of God that WE RECEIVED GOD BY GOD'S WILLPOWER - NOT CAUSED FROM MAN'S WILLPOWER - NO - GOD'S WILLPOWER ALONE BRINGS MAN TO SALVATION!

GOD WILLPOWERS SALVATION INTO MAN - NOT MAN WILLPOWERING SALVATION INTO HIMSELF: The Apostle Jesus, Lord and God (John 20:28), disagrees with "I was able to willpower toward Jesus" free-willians when He says "All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him" (Matthew 11:27). We believers are dependent upon God to willpower us unto God for God states "anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him" - THAT IS GOD DOING THE WILLPOWERING - NOT MAN DOING THE WILLPOWERING TOWARD GOD - NO - GOD WILLPOWERS GOD'S CHOSEN PERSONS UNTO SALVATION, SO WE BELIEVERS ARE THE BLESSED BY GOD RECIPIENTS OF GOD'S PRECIOUS SON UNTO SALVATION!

GOD SAVES PEOPLE - PEOPLE CANNOT SAVE THEMSELVES: Christ Jesus, Lord and God, disagrees with you for He answered "With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible" in response to the disciple's question of "Then who can be saved?" (Matthew 19:25-26) because God says God must choose man (John 15:16) after all it is impossible for man to choose, impossible for man to conjure up belief/faith (John 6:29), impossible for man to cause himself to be born again (John 3:3, John 3:5), impossible for the uncoverted by the Holy Spirit man to please God (Hebrews 11:6).

GOD IS JEALOUS (Exodus 20:5), AND GOD DOES NOT GIVE HIS GLORY TO ANOTHER (Isaiah 42:8). FREE-WILLIANS ARE THIEVES THAT SIN AGAINST GOD (Exodus 20:15, Matthew 19:18) IN THAT THEY TRY TO STEAL GOD'S GLORY IN THE SALVATION OF MAN SINCE THE SON OF GOD STATES "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (John 15:16); THEREFORE, ALL FREE-WILLIANS ARE WITNESSES AGAINST YOURSELVES FOR YOU CLAIM TO CHOOSE GOD, BUT YOU CANNOT CHOOSE GOD BECAUSE LORD JESUS SAID YOU CANNOT THUS YOU CHOSE A FALSE GOD IN WHICH THERE IS NO ETERNAL LIFE!

 

[CNKW3]

And...all those biblical texts...tossed out the window. "It's because one has been obedient to the plan given by Christ".
Hello? You are saying we are only 'elect' if we do x,y and z. "Do"....

I’ve dealt with every passage you have posted. We’ll see if I’m extended the same courtesy.
All of those described as “elect” were called that AFTER obedience.
Those in Rome, Colosse, Ephesus, those Peter was writing to. All are referred to as elect AFTER obedience. Never before.

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. -Ephesians 2:8–9

When exactly were the Ephesians “saved by grace through faith”? Before or after obedience to Paul’s teaching? You would think a person, like you, so interested in facts would want to go and examine the conversion of those in Ephesus to see just exactly what they did? Wouldn’t that be the proper thing to do, instead of posting one passage and put your own opinionated spin on it?

yet we know that a person is not justified by worksof the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. -Galatians 2:16

What did he mean by “works of the law”? Any law whatsoever? Or was he talking about the jewish law? What is the context of all Galatians? If you cared about truth you would investigate to find out that Paul was writing to people who wanted to turn back to the old law.
This is what he is contrasting.....obedience to the old law which can save or justify no one
Or
obedience to “the faith”. The law of Christ. The perfect law of liberty where justification and salvation is now found.
CONTEXT MATTERS!

Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” -Galatians 3:11

You are still in Galatians so read my post above. Here is the theme of all Galatians.....
Galatians 5:1-4 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Context matters!

he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, -Titus 3:5

Let’s look at a parallel passage....
Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

To be saved, sanctified, cleansed are all the same. You can’t be cleansed and not be saved. You can’t be saved and not be sanctified.
....The Ephesians were saved by the washing of water by the word.
I see washing in your passage above but I don’t see the word. I see the Spirit in your passage but I don’t see the Spirit in mine.
Why is that?
We know that these two passages are saying the same thing but in a slightly different way.
......In yours we have the washing of regeneration and the HS.
......In mine we have washing of water and the word.

Does the word literally wash? No. The word washes by what it teaches.
The word teaches us what to do in order to be cleansed culminating with baptism in water.
Does the HS literally wash? The HS is who gave us the word so through the teaching of the Spirit we learn how to be washed or cleansed.
See,
both of these passages are teaching the same thing.....when a person is obedient to the words and direction of the Spirit culminating in baptism in water they will be cleansed, forgiven, sanctified, justified, washed, saved.
1 pet 3:21

You wanted Bible study well there it is. You cannot take one passage to the exclusion of others and Paul was NOT teaching two separate things. This is the beauty of how the Bible is written; you learn so much through parallel passages written in a slightly different way.

 

[CNKW3]

We are elect because he elected us. It was neither by OUR works to earn it or keep it. To claim to so goes against clear and repeated teaching of scripture.

Eph 2:8 DOES NOT teach that we are to do NOTHING.
Show me all those who are described as elect BEFORE they did anything?
Those in Ephesus were obedient and literally and physically DID something. THEN, after obedience, Paul could call them elect and Paul THEN could say they were saved by grace plus faith. Where did Paul ever write to an alien sinner and call him “elect”?

Fuss? I'm not sure I'm fussing. You began a conversation about this. Might I add that you started a conversation about it that was rather 'stand-offish" ('come on people, prove it!). And when people have entered the conversation, and put forth bible verses that they see hold some weight on the subject, you think we're "fussing"? Might I suggest you stop calling us out on silly things that really aren't so and just stick to addressing the bible verses that have been presented to you? Because if you really want to be taken seriously, you need to address the 'prove it' part of your OP. We are attempting to 'prove it'...enter the conversation or not. But if it's 'not', don't expect people to take your blustering seriously.

Your first words were.....this is a ridiculous post. Instead of saying something like.....hey this is an interesting thought, let’s see if we can explore this a little bit. You start off by calling my OP ridiculous. The tone for our discussion was set right there. This post began after a few people had stated they were one of the elect but didn’t have a reason why other then to say something like....... God is the one who does the choosing. I told these folks that I didn’t believe them and that’s how this thread started.

So, I ask you...how do you know you are one of the elect?

Your proof is....”we are elect because he elected us”. Really. That’s it. That’s how you know you are “elect”. Because you just know, somehow, (how I don’t know) that God chose you. People wonder why Christianity is in such decline. This is why I started the OP. If anything is ridiculous, this is it.

In this particular case, context didn't matter. It didn't matter if the thing we have faith in was eternal life, or the assurance of salvation or even the fact that Jesus truly rose from the grave. I quoted the verse, and many others, in order to show that the Christian life is full of faith, of taking things ON faith. In that particular verse, we take it on faith that there is an eternal life waiting for us.

Of course the context mattered. He was not discussing becoming a Christian or salvation. He was writing to people who had already obeyed the gospel and his focus there was placed on the glory to come, something we can’t see or examine with our own eyes. That’s why he said....we walk by faith not by sight.
Can we see a person obeying the gospel and becoming a Christian? Yes we can. We then can know they are one of the elect.

In the early church they used the gifts of the HS to prove what they were teaching and practicing. If we walk by faith and not by sight then why did they need to do the miraculous in order to spread the gospel? They should have just said.....”you don’t need proof, you take it by faith”. But they didn’t do that. So your argument does not hold up to investigation.

The point being, my only reason in providing those verses was to show that saying "if it cannot be physically proven, then it cannot be proven at all" was a fallacious argument right from the beginning, as pretty much all Christian life rests on faith about something.

I did not say that. You put that in quotes as if that is what I said. I want you to cut and paste what I actually said instead of making things up.
I NEVER said “if it cannot be proven physically then it cannot be proven at all”. NEVER. You are building a straw man and arguing against something I NEVER SAID. I simply asked those who believe they are elect without doing anything to “prove it.” I’ll be waiting for your answer on.....how you know you are one of the elect. I know because I obeyed the gospel pattern Jesus gave us. He that believes and is baptized shall be saved. Those are the people who are described as “elect”!

And election, like faith, was never something to be 'physically' proven. If your starting point is there, it's no wonder you ended up in the wrong place.

then why are we to “try the spirits” to see if they are from God. Just HOW does one do that?
John says......if you abide not in the doctrine of Christ then you have not God.
How are we supposed to know if you are abiding in the doctrine of Christ without examination?
And, how can an examination be conducted without physical evidence?

Your argument holds no water. Please answer these simple questions...

 

[Kermos]

I’ve dealt with every passage you have posted. We’ll see if I’m extended the same courtesy.
All of those described as “elect” were called that AFTER obedience.
...snip

No, CNKW3, obedience is a result of the Holy Spirit, for we have the Apostle Peter's writing of "obeying the truth through the Spirit" (1 Peter 1:22).

Nonetheless, the passage can be found in the GOD PURIFIES SOULS section of the richly scriptural post - the passage correctly divided that you so very hastily toss out the window.

So, your deceptive theology remains on the shifting sand for you lawlessly do not receive the words of Lord Jesus (Matthew 7:21-28).

The Word of God is solid Rock, and expressed in richly scriptural post illuminating the sovereignty of God alone in man's salvation!

THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) - JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS. LORD JESUS SPEAKS TO ALL BELIEVERS IN ALL TIME BECAUSE HE ALSO SAID "I DO NOT ASK ON BEHALF OF THESE ALONE, BUT FOR THOSE ALSO WHO BELIEVE IN ME THROUGH THEIR WORD" (JOHN 17:20)! ALL THESE WORDS OF JESUS ARE AT THE SAME SUPPER! ALL GLORY IS GOD'S! WITH MAN, SALVATION IS IMPOSSIBLE (MATTHEW 19:25-26)! ALL GLORY IN THE SALVATION OF MAN IS GOD'S (JOHN 15:5, ISAIAH 42:8)!

 

[Naomi25]

This is false. I can physically prove that I am one of the elect. I have believed the gospel and been obedient to it through repentance, confession and baptism in water for the remission of my sins. These are the elect. It is provable and verifiable through the word of God.

Perhaps you should purchase a good dictionary...? Or just peruse one before starting a thread with claims and phrases in it that are directly misleading?
Because OF COURSE we can prove things from scripture. That is the only way to, without doubt, prove things and claims about God.
However, when you tossed in the claim 'physically' you muddied the waters. Physically means bodily. You are, in essence, saying that through scripture, you have hard, physical evidence upon your actual body. So....photographic evidence please.
Except, no...that's not really what you are claiming is it? All you are saying is that you have a claim that you can prove through scripture.
Welcome to biblical theology. It's been happening for 2000 years. Longer even. So...what's the point of your post again?

Nowhere is anybody described as “elect” who did nothing. The gospel of Jesus Christ, that we are accountable to, began to be preached in acts 2. Show me one person under the new covenant who was described as elect who did NOTHING to be one of the elect? Everybody is required to obey the gospel. That includes belief, repentance, confession, and baptism for forgiveness of sins. You want to have a discussion? Let’s start and see how far we get.
In Acts 2. The audience heard the preaching of Peter and they asked....what shall we do?
It’s obvious they believed the message. Peter told them to repent, be baptized for remission of sins.
2 questions.....
1. Are these individuals considered “elect”? Yes or no?
2. At what point did they become one of the elect? Before or after obedience?
I will say that if you choose “before”, please explain how a person can be one of the elect and still be in their sins.

Ah, no, sir. I believe ettiquette dictates you go first. You posted a barely veiled challenge; I answered with a good quantity of verses. If you want me to answer any more of your questions, front up and be a good man and actually address my first post. It really peeves me when someone with a soapbox mission comes on here, refuses to answer people and just pushes questions with more questions.
If you can't answer, either admit it or drop it. But here I stand until you do the gentlemanly thing and actually address my post.

 

[Earburner]

God saves by God's grace for God's glory! Praise the Lord Jesus!

Pending if one hears His Voice (calling) and opens the door (chosen), He will come into us,..(save us).

 

[Naomi25]

I noticed that you stress scripture not opinion, which is, by God's mercy, the same as God has me doing.

Indeed, there is strong popularity in "choosing" God. There are many marching on the broad way that leads to destruction (Matthew 7:13) in their denial of the exclusive Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24) in man's salvation (John 15:16). The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom (Psalm 111:10), and Christ is the Wisdom of God (1 Corinthians 1:24).

May Lord Jesus reveal His one way of life (John 14:6) in Him to those who do not receive His words (Matthew 12:48), including His words of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16)!

I'm not above bringing my own opinion to the table. Sadly it probably happens more than I wish it to. But I do want my views line up with his word above and beyond anything else. The reason for this? I've been wrong before, and the journey of learning and growing to the truth was precious and freeing. God's word is precious and freeing. And it undoubtedly brings us to the beautiful truth of God; who he is and what he has planned for us. It's all rather astounding and humbling.

 

[Kermos]

Pending if one hears His Voice (calling) and opens the door (chosen), He will come into us,..(save us).

The only way a person can hear Jesus, Lord and God (John 20:28), calling is for God to open the person's ears (John 3:3, John 3:5, John 6:29).

You are missing scripture references, Earburner!

A person can do nothing apart from Lord Jesus (John 15:5), yet you persist in the appearance to cling to your claim of doing something in your own volition; therefore, your deceptive theology remains on the shifting sand for you lawlessly do not receive the words of Lord Jesus (Matthew 7:21-28).

The Word of God is solid Rock, and expressed in this richly scriptural post illuminating the exclusive sovereignty of God in man's salvation!

THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) - JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS. LORD JESUS SPEAKS TO ALL BELIEVERS IN ALL TIME BECAUSE HE ALSO SAID "I DO NOT ASK ON BEHALF OF THESE ALONE, BUT FOR THOSE ALSO WHO BELIEVE IN ME THROUGH THEIR WORD" (JOHN 17:20)! ALL THESE WORDS OF JESUS ARE AT THE SAME SUPPER! ALL GLORY IS GOD'S! WITH MAN, SALVATION IS IMPOSSIBLE (MATTHEW 19:25-26)! ALL GLORY IN THE SALVATION OF MAN IS GOD'S (JOHN 15:5, ISAIAH 42:8)!

God saves by God's grace for God's glory! Praise the Lord Jesus!

 

[brakelite]

I think what the guy is saying is similar to how we are going to eventually be judged... By hard evidence... Works. It is our obedience that will be used as evidence of our salvation. And I have asked a similar question to his... If the elect are saved only because God's says they are saved... All God and no action, obedience,thought , response, approval, agreement,willingness or anything else contributing to our salvation how does @Kermos know he is saved? What evidence does he have that he, personally, is one of the elect? Quoting scripture cannot answer that question. Because no where in scripture does it say he is saved. Nor you. Nor me. In order to claim to be one of the elect, a saved born again Christian, one needs hard physical evidence as a witness. Works. Obedience. Fruit. And obedience does not come after the act of justification, because only by our obedience, through faith, can any of us be justified.

 

[Naomi25]

I’ve dealt with every passage you have posted. We’ll see if I’m extended the same courtesy.
All of those described as “elect” were called that AFTER obedience.
Those in Rome, Colosse, Ephesus, those Peter was writing to. All are referred to as elect AFTER obedience. Never before.

When exactly were the Ephesians “saved by grace through faith”? Before or after obedience to Paul’s teaching? You would think a person, like you, so interested in facts would want to go and examine the conversion of those in Ephesus to see just exactly what they did? Wouldn’t that be the proper thing to do, instead of posting one passage and put your own opinionated spin on it?

So...essentially you're advocating works? Not an obedience that grows from salvation, but a salvation that comes from works (ie; obedience).

What did he mean by “works of the law”? Any law whatsoever? Or was he talking about the jewish law? What is the context of all Galatians? If you cared about truth you would investigate to find out that Paul was writing to people who wanted to turn back to the old law.
This is what he is contrasting.....obedience to the old law which can save or justify no one
Or
obedience to “the faith”. The law of Christ. The perfect law of liberty where justification and salvation is now found.
CONTEXT MATTERS!

But what was the point of the law? And why was it needful for Christ to make it obsolete? Two reasons: one - man is incapable of keeping laws perfectly, and it is only complete perfection in obedience that grants salvation. And two - that when we receive salvation from Christ without the law, it is counted completely as a gift of grace, and that so we may not have any part of boasting in our role of paying for or earning of it.
In this way, if salvation was to be received only by 'obedience' to something, then we start to see that not only must we start to try and hold ourselves to being perfect in obedience in order to receive salvation; but we can also have something to boast in when we keep these things well enough to be granted salvation.
So, yes, basically you're advocating a works based salvation. Which is unbiblical.

the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. -Romans 3:22–28

Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, -Romans 4:4–5

even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— Ephesians 2:5

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, -Ephesians 2:8

who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began, -2 Timothy 1:9

 

[brakelite]

But while God can be just, and yet justify the sinner through the merits of Christ, no man can cover his soul with the garments of Christ's righteousness while practicing known sins, or neglecting known duties. God requires the entire surrender of the heart, before justification can take place; and in order for man to retain justification, there must be continual obedience, through active, living faith that works by love and purifies the soul. The entire surrender of the heart is clearly a condition of justification. The whole heart must he yielded to God, with nothing held hack. We must decide not to continue in disobedience any longer. Then, to remain in a justified state, the next condition is obedience. But notice that this obedience is not by my efforts alone, it comes through faith in God's power to purify my soul. The decision to obey is always my decision. The two conditions to receiving and keeping justification are surrender and obedience. Without these conditions being met, there is no justification, no matter how much we may claim it. We are in serious danger of false presumption, which is the counterfeit of genuine faith.

 

[Naomi25]

Eph 2:8 DOES NOT teach that we are to do NOTHING.
Show me all those who are described as elect BEFORE they did anything?
Those in Ephesus were obedient and literally and physically DID something. THEN, after obedience, Paul could call them elect and Paul THEN could say they were saved by grace plus faith. Where did Paul ever write to an alien sinner and call him “elect”?

Do you remember the verse that said we were predestined 'before the foundation of the world?' I would submit that that was the first move; one done by the Creator long before we existed and could DO anything.
You might also take note as you go through scripture, of the work and role of the Holy Spirit. Why would Jesus say that it was 'to our benefit' that he should leave us so the 'helper' could come?
The Holy Spirit is also called The Spirit of Truth (John 14:17), and what we see time and time again throughout scripture, and just in life, is that before people can respond in faith to God, in the obedience you are talking about, they must first see the truth of God's word. They must see the truth of who Jesus is, why he came and place their lives in his hands.
Essentially, what we have is God granting people the knowledge and saving faith to accept his Son, and then once saved, people are called to in that faith, walk in obedience.
That's why Paul can say that salvation is completely and totally a free gift, and that once received we then move into works. Not to earn salvation or even to keep them. They are to honor our Lord and help us along the path of santification, of moving ever closer to him.

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. -Ephesians 2:8–10

Note that it doesn't say that we were created in Christ BECAUSE of good works, or THROUGH our good works. No, our salvation is wholey a gift, completely HIS workmanship; FOR a life of holiness. But too many people put the cart before the horse. Which is a false gospel and have people striving for something they can never get.

 

[Kermos]

I'm going to preface by saying that this current post addends this richly scriptural post illuminating the exclusive sovereignty of God in man's salvation post.

There are two kinds of fruit. One kind is fruit of the flesh for which a person will not inherit the Kingdom of God (Galatians 5:19-21). The wonderful kind is Fruit of the Spirit of God is evidence of the indwelling Holy Spirit that is righteous works/good works/blessed fruit (Galatians 5:22-25), and we believers discern and perceive this fruit (2 Corinthians 13:5).

A person's obedience to God is through the Holy Spirit in the person (1 Peter 1:22) thus this person is one of us believers. This is evidential Fruit of the Spirit of God in we believers also known as works, deeds, and obedience.

For we believers in Lord Jesus, He is the vine we are the branches that in Him we see production of Fruit of the Spirit (John 15:1-9). This is evidential Fruit of the Spirit of God in we believers also known as works, deeds, and obedience.

A fundamental point preceeding fruit (a.k.a. works, deeds, and obedience) needs to be made that is a person must be born again to be able to see the Kingdom of God (John 3:3) therefore a person must be born of the spirit of God in order to see the joy of the Kingdom of God (John 3:5-8). This is evidential Fruit of the Spirit of God in we believers also known as works, deeds, and obedience.

We believers born again fall on our knees in sorrow for sin, giving thanks for the Blood of Christ for our redemption (1 Corinthians 10:16), and in adoring praises of the Living God. This is evidential Fruit of the Spirit of God in we believers also known as works, deeds, and obedience.

With us believers is a life of Fruit of the Spirit that separates the new creation of the believer from the old destructive person (Matthew 18:3, 2 Corinthians 5:17). This is evidential Fruit of the Spirit of God in we believers also known as works, deeds, and obedience.

Another fundamental point all of the points really are fundamental is that a person who receives the Word of God this person honors the Word of God this person lives the Word of God this person loves the Word of God and this is all by God through God and in God (Matthew 7:24-25). This is fundamental for we believers (Matthew 7:17). This is evidential Fruit of the Spirit of God in we believers also known as works, deeds, and obedience.

The Word of God reveals that which composes we believers, and it is by the Word of God that we can examine ourselves (2 Corinthians 13:5), and it is by the Word of God that we discern truth and reject error (Matthew 7:21-27, John 8:42, John 14:15).

All this Fruit of the Spirit of God is profoundly humbling yet extraordinaryly comforting, and we believers count it all JOY! The Power of God is humbling (Matthew 5:5, 1 Corinthians1:24)!

@brakelite, your posts (#1310 and #1312) are devoid scriptural reference. Scripture is crucial for understanding.

THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) - JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS. LORD JESUS SPEAKS TO ALL BELIEVERS IN ALL TIME BECAUSE HE ALSO SAID "I DO NOT ASK ON BEHALF OF THESE ALONE, BUT FOR THOSE ALSO WHO BELIEVE IN ME THROUGH THEIR WORD" (JOHN 17:20)! ALL THESE WORDS OF JESUS ARE AT THE SAME SUPPER! ALL GLORY IS GOD'S! WITH MAN, SALVATION IS IMPOSSIBLE (MATTHEW 19:25-26)! ALL GLORY IN THE SALVATION OF MAN IS GOD'S (JOHN 15:5, ISAIAH 42:8)!

 

[CNKW3]

I fail to see your point, I'm sorry. Are you saying that just because our faith is, in itself, a gift from God, that we do not also play a part in acknowledging Christ as the Son of God come in flesh? Because, clearly we do. John tells us that anyone who denies that is in fact antichrist. So, while I happily agree that faith does indeed come from God, I'm not sure exactly how that furthers this conversation or what your ultimate point above was. Again, I quoted that passage to show just how much faith is part of the Christian walk. And again, for this particular purpose, it matters not if the faith comes from us and our continued striving for holiness, or from God in his gifting of salvation and ongoing grace. The point, as I seem to have to repeatedly stress, was that faith, like election, cannot be physicallyproved, which you hung your OP on.

You posted gal 2:16 and in your translation it says....we are not justified by the law but by faith IN Christ. People use this to preach that all you have to do is have “faith/belief IN Christ.
My point was that the proper translation teaches more than that. It is written in the possessive form which means it is “the faith” that belongs to Christ. We are not justified by the law (of Moses) but by “the faith (of Christ).
His teaching, his doctrine, his law.
The one faith of Eph 4,
the system of faith first preached on Pentecost,
the gospel of Jesus Christ which is to be obeyed, acts 6:7; rom 1:5; 2 thes 1:8
“the faith” that we are to contend for Ju 3.
“The faith” that Paul once persecuted but now preaches. Gal 1:23
In 2 Cor 13:5 when Paul says...examine yourselves to see whether you be in “the faith”
This is the same as John telling us we must abide in the doctrine of Christ. To be “in the faith” or to “abide in the doctrine of Christ” are the same.
We are NOT justified by some mental acceptance that Jesus is the son of God, it is through obedience to “the faith” which includes repentance and baptism.

You are asking people to prove a negative. "A ha! Prove to me, people, that you have been elected! Which you can't, because it can't physically be proven!"
'But excuse me sir, election is not something TO BE physically proven'
"Then I'm right! You can't prove it!"
'Ah, no, that's not what I said'
"Yes, it is!"

It can be physically proven. All those in the NT described as elect ALL did the exact same thing. It is called....”a common salvation”. They all Heard believed repented and were baptized in water. Every single one of them. Acts 2, 3, 8, 9, 10, 16, 18, 19 There is not one case of individuals being described as elect who had never obeyed the gospel. You’re saying that to be one of the elect you don’t have to do anything. If so, then give me one example of that taking place. A person called elect who had never believed and been baptized.

So, when I provided all the verses in my first post that linked elected people to traits of those who are justifed, had the knoweldge of truth, had faith (which we know is a gift of God) and were sealed with the Holy Spirit....you instead decided to go on a crusade about how the OTHER verses I posted were "out of context". Interesting. A dodge, perhaps?

Make up your mind....do you want me to deal with your passages or not?
I dealt with every verse you posted. Now you don’t like the way in which I did it. I did not just say.....you are out of context but I broke it down how and why you took it out of context. For instance...
You posted Eph 1:13. Question?
Did Paul seal those in Ephesus with the HS? Yes or no?
If so, why are you applying that passage to us today? Those in Ephesus knew and could verify that they had been sealed. You can’t.

 

[CNKW3]

Well, talk about posting verses out of context!
All three passages talk about testing oneself and their work or ideas. Not a bad idea, right? But you use these passages in response when I asked if it were perhaps foolhardy to seek physical proof within a belief that relies so much upon faith. You say 'no, its not foolhardy to seek physical proof' and apply these verses. But these verses do NOT give you leave to demands physical proof. They give you leave to test your work and ideas. And how are we to do that? Through the Word of God, that's how. Like the Bereans before us, we come back to the Word and dig for answers.
Which is why I am astounded that you have not addressed the clear passages I first gave you on the topic. I am also a little amused at how much you've gone on about me 'taking verses out of context' and now have done the same yourself.

They are NOT out of context! You say they are but then provide no evidence. We are just to trust you.
I will help you out. Let’s look at 1 thes 5:21
In vs 20 it says...despise not prophesying.
To prophesy is to utter by divine inspiration so we today could be considered a prophet by preaching from the word of God.
In vs 21 he then says.....”PROVE ALL things, hold fast to that which is good.”
This is NOT just about examining oneself.
Let’s apply this principle......
For example- people teach that all you have to do is accept Jesus and pray for salvation and you are saved. It’s my duty to ask...where did you get That? Because it didn’t come from the Bible. There is not one person who ever “accepted Jesus and prayed for salvation”. You nor anybody else can “prove” that so I will not hold fast to that man made false doctrine.

So, you see, you should have properly read and examined the passages I gave you.

Oh golly.
You see, there's this book, and it's called the Bible. And inside it, God has given us all this information. That way when spirits show up we can see if what they are doing or saying line up with the word of God. If they don't, they are not OF God.

How do you do that unless you ask them to “prove” what they teach? I can’t believe you would ask ANYBODY to prove ANYTHING.?
When you look things up in the Bible you are looking for confirmation and proof of what is being taught.

In fact, the Word of God is the ONLY real proof we have of anything.

not totally correct but I will give you this. If we want to know who the elect are then we get the information from the word of God. If we want to know how to remove sins, we get it from the word of God. If we want to know how to get “into Christ” we get it from the word of God and not Billy Graham or any other man who teaches their own man made doctrine.

The Holy Spirit is very real, of course, but people are most fallible and are not reliable in how they percieve or recieve messages or the like.

We don’t receive direct and personal messages from the HS today. That was done away with when the total revealed word of God was complete.

There are some very strange, mistaken or just evil people out there who claim to speak for the Holy Spirit. And the one solid, unarguable, irrefutable proof we have to beat those claims back with, is the unchanging Word of God.
That's our proof. That's all the proof we need.
Which I gave you, and you're still not addressing. Poor show.

That’s right! You say you are one of the elect? Prove it through the word.
I have addressed every scripture you posted. Here they are...
Ro 1:17, 10:17. 8:24,33 29,30 . 3:22, 5:2,5,
2 Cor 5:7
Gal 2:16. 3:2
Tit 1:1,2
Eph 1:13
2 thes 2:13
Feel free to point out the ones we need to discuss further.

Sigh. You know what else you're about to prove? Your total inability to engage in a conversation. You said you wanted proof. I gave you scriptures I felt gave proof for this. A person who honestly wanted some back and forth on the topic would have at least addressed them even if it was to disagree.
I'm starting to get the wafting smell of soapbox here.

I’ve given you the opportunity to show everyone how I did not address your passages. I listed them above and will study ANY of them that you wish to pursue. People can read my post and decide which of us is telling the truth.
I have also asked some very important questions. We will see if you are truly willing to engage in honest bible study or are you just trolling along like everybody else. I’m looking for someone with an honest and good heart willing to truly study the Bible. In order to do that you have to be willing to ask and answer questions honestly and not just spout your own opinionated bias. It needs to be by book, chapter and verse. I’ve yet to find it on here.

Listen friend, I'm not really sure why I should give you my time if you won't give me yours. If you want me to actually engage in the conversation, go back to my original post, where I, in good faith addressed yours, and tell me what you think about the verses I posted about the elect and how they directly linked those people to characteristics of those you can hardly say are not 'saved'.

The book of Romans was written to who? Not one individual but the church
2 Cor was written to who? The church
Eph was written to who? The church
Gal was written to who? The church.
So, when God said...
Romans 8:29-30 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
He is speaking of the church or the body of Christ.
Was the church in his mind before the world began? Yes. Eph 3:4-11
Did he foreknow that the church would be established? Yes
Did he predetermine the conditions for entrance into the body/church? Yes
Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

The only way into the body/church is through obedience to the gospel. Rom 10:16
We are “called” by the gospel. We are justified by obedience to the gospel.
This and the other elect passages ARE NOT speaking of certain individuals appointed to be saved. They are ALL speaking of the body of Christ or the church. These are the elect that God foreknew and they ALL did the exact same thing, physically provable, in order to be added to the church/body. If you were one of them you would have no problem with saying....yes I have obeyed the gospel and here is what I did to be obedient to the “common salvation”.
How did Lydia respond after obeying the gospel?
Acts 16:15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.
WHAT? “If you have judged me to be faithful”? No way. Obviously Lydia didn’t get the memo from Naomi telling her that nobody had the right to pass judgement on if she was faithful or not. I feel sorry for her.

 

[CNKW3]

Perhaps you should purchase a good dictionary...? Or just peruse one before starting a thread with claims and phrases in it that are directly misleading?
Because OF COURSE we can prove things from scripture. That is the only way to, without doubt, prove things and claims about God.
However, when you tossed in the claim 'physically' you muddied the waters. Physically means bodily. You are, in essence, saying that through scripture, you have hard, physical evidence upon your actual body. So....photographic evidence please.
Except, no...that's not really what you are claiming is it? All you are saying is that you have a claim that you can prove through scripture.
Welcome to biblical theology. It's been happening for 2000 years. Longer even. So...what's the point of your post again?


Ah, no, sir. I believe ettiquette dictates you go first. You posted a barely veiled challenge; I answered with a good quantity of verses. If you want me to answer any more of your questions, front up and be a good man and actually address my first post. It really peeves me when someone with a soapbox mission comes on here, refuses to answer people and just pushes questions with more questions.
If you can't answer, either admit it or drop it. But here I stand until you do the gentlemanly thing and actually address my post.

When I said.....you can’t demonstrate anything physically I was speaking to all those who I had previously had discussions with who were claiming they had gifts of the Spirit. So if you are one of them then you fall into this category. The category that says.....I’m one of the elect because I have “gifts” given by the HS. And all I was saying was that you can’t prove or demonstrate ANYTHING physically like they could in the first century. It’s not my fault if you come into this 2 months late and just assume things. Can’t blame that on me.

 

[CNKW3]

So...essentially you're advocating works? Not an obedience that grows from salvation, but a salvation that comes from works (ie; obedience).

So salvation comes BEFORE obedience?? I noticed you didn’t post any scripture to support that.
I asked you a question earlier that I knew you wouldn’t answer....
In acts 2, was the believing audience saved before or after their sins were remitted?
Another way to ask that is.....were the believers on Pentecost saved before or after obedience to the instructions given in acts 2:38?

Do you have an honest and receptive heart when it comes to Bible study? Or do you only care about your man made doctrine?
Where’s the prayer they prayed for salvation in acts 2?
....When did Lydia ask.....have you found me to be faithful? Before or after obedience to the gospel message preach?
....When did the Eunuch rejoice? Before or after baptism?
....When was the Jailor described as a “ believer”. Before or after obedience to the preaching of Paul?
....When were those in Rome freed from sin? Before or after they “obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine delivered to them”? Rom 6: 17,18
....When did Paul tell the Ephesians that they were “saved by grace through faith”? Before or after obedience to the preaching of Paul?
.....who is Christ going to take vengeance on? 2 thes 1:7,8 Those who have obeyed the gospel or those who have NOT obeyed the gospel? According to you a person could be saved without obedience to the gospel (since salvation comes first) so I guess Christ will be taking vengeance out on some saved people.

But what was the point of the law? And why was it needful for Christ to make it obsolete? Two reasons: one - man is incapable of keeping laws perfectly, and it is only complete perfection in obedience that grants salvation.

so you are incapable of being obedient to repentance, confession and baptism for remission of your sins? That’s pretty pathetic to teach someone they are incapable of simple obedience to repentance, confession, and baptism.

And two - that when we receive salvation from Christ without the law, it is counted completely as a gift of grace, and that so we may not have any part of boasting in our role of paying for or earning of it.

Let me get this straight?
Christ said......go preach the gospel, he that believes and is baptized shall be saved
And you say that it is boasting on our part if we are obedient to that teaching? We can “boast” about something we’ve done for salvation? Because salvation clearly comes after baptism, according to Jesus.
Read the passage. Mk 16:15,16
It is the height of arrogance to say to Jesus......”don’t you know I will be able to boast if I submit to this baptism you are commanding”!

In this way, if salvation was to be received only by 'obedience' to something, then we start to see that not only must we start to try and hold ourselves to being perfect in obedience in order to receive salvation;

Again....you are saying it is impossible for you to be obedient to repent, confess and be baptized so that your sins may be blotted out?
All I know is that it wasnt too hard for 3000 on Pentecost.
It wasnt too hard for the Samaritans.
It wasn’t too hard for the Eunuch.
It wasn’t too hard for Saul of Tarsus.
It wasnt too hard for those in Ephesus.
It wasn’t too hard for a Roman Jailor after midnight and an earthquake.
But now we know it’s too hard for you.

but we can also have something to boast in when we keep these things well enough to be granted salvation.
So, yes, basically you're advocating a works based salvation. Which is unbiblical.

So you don’t have to repent?
Paul said....God commands all men everywhere to repent. Acts 17:30

That is the hardest commandment of any in the Bible. To decide to change your life to live for Christ. How many people have to give up their jobs, their current lifestyle, their friends, family, etc in order to become a Christian? Can a homosexual continue to live a homosexual life and be a Christian? Can an alcoholic or drug addict continue to do drugs and be a Christian? Many more examples could be used. What if you sleep around and fornicate? Can you “accept Jesus as your personal savior” and continue to shack up and sleep around?

the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifierof the one who has faith in Jesus.Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from worksof the law. -Romans 3:22–28

He is writing to the church in Rome. Correct? Please tell, by using the text, at what point were the sins of these individuals forgiven? Paul said....they were “freed from sin” AFTER they did what? It wasn’t “nothing”
He also began the book and ended the book with “obedience to the faith”.

Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, -Romans 4:4–5

Are you gonna stop there or keep on reading? I’ll do it for you again. You have a habit of stopping when you like what it says.
Rom 4:6-8 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
So who is Paul considering when he talks of imputation of righteousness? Let’s keep reading....

Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
What? You mean the man whom God will not impute sin is the man whom he has forgiven of his sins?
Well, I’ll ask you for the 10th time....at what point under the new covenant does God forgive a person of their sins? At what point is a persons sins “remitted”, “blotted out”, “washed away”, “freed from”? At what point does a person “rise to walk in newness of life”? It’s not a hard question for the honest Bible student, who has not been corrupted by the Billy Graham’s of the world.

even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— Ephesians 2:5

Saved by grace? Why didn’t I think of that?
The Bible also says......that the grace of God has appeared to ALL men. Tit 2:11
So, following your doctrine to the logical conclusion all men will be saved.

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, -Ephesians 2:8

So when I submit to obedience in baptism, a baptism that is commanded by God; you are teaching that this is a work of my doing? I had no part in the planning. I had no part in the action other then to stand there while someone else immersed me in water, but for some reason I can now boast.
So, just exactly what work did I do that I can boast about?
You really think I can go before God and say....look what I did I was baptized, so you gotta save Me!
Well, it works the same for belief as well. I can go before God and say....look what I did I believed just like you told me so you gotta save me.
So, just what kind of “work” do you think “we” do in baptism that is different from belief?

who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began, -2 Timothy 1:9

here is the first verse.
2 Timothy 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,
Where is the promise of life? “In Christ”.
Look what he says in the next chapter.
2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
Where is salvation found? “In Christ”

So I’ll ask you again....
How does one get “into Christ”? You like posting scriptures then post those.

 

[brakelite]

@brakelite, your posts (#1310 and #1312) are devoid scriptural reference. Scripture is crucial for understanding.

the
One doesn't need to quote scripture when contemplating the love of God. Anyone can lay back and think upon Calvary and be in awe at the grace and mercy of our Creator, share that with others like I did here, without quoting scripture. We can accurately contrmplate the meaning of love without quoting scripture.. Love is evidentially revealed through Calvary as self sacrificial I don't need to quote scripture to show that. We all know it. It is glaringly obvious to those of us here who know Christ. So is the love of God, in its purest sense, means self sacrifice, and He calls on is to follow in His steps, thus revealing love as the fulfilling of the law, how does that whole inherent nature of love harmonise with your concept of God not giving man any choice whether to accept or reject Him? Your idea of love amounts to spiritual rape.
The above does not contradict God's choice of us. Yes, He has chosen mankind and appointed them to be saved... That is why Christ died and took the sins of every man, the whole world, upon Himself. This all men are justified in Christ. But not all men are saved obviously, because not all men believe. And some believe but chose not to obey. Others believe but are not willing to forsake the world. We do have choices... Like the choice whether to sin or not. And our choices sometimes have eternal ramifications.

 

[Kermos]

They are NOT out of context!
...snip

@CNKW3, you are quite adept at taking scripture out of context.

For example the Apostle Peter wrote "obeying the truth through the Spirit", thus God reveals that obedience is a gift of the Holy Spirit for we believers (1 Peter 1:22).

Nonetheless, the passage can be found in the GOD PURIFIES SOULS section of this richly scriptural post - the passage correctly divided that you so very hastily toss out the window.

The post at the top of this page contains several more examples of your conflations of scripture.

So, your deceptive theology remains on the shifting sand for you lawlessly do not receive the words of Lord Jesus (Matthew 7:21-28).

The Word of God is solid Rock, and expressed in this richly scriptural post illuminating the sovereignty of God alone in man's salvation!

THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) - JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS. LORD JESUS SPEAKS TO ALL BELIEVERS IN ALL TIME BECAUSE HE ALSO SAID "I DO NOT ASK ON BEHALF OF THESE ALONE, BUT FOR THOSE ALSO WHO BELIEVE IN ME THROUGH THEIR WORD" (JOHN 17:20)! ALL THESE WORDS OF JESUS ARE AT THE SAME SUPPER! ALL GLORY IS GOD'S! WITH MAN, SALVATION IS IMPOSSIBLE (MATTHEW 19:25-26)! ALL GLORY IN THE SALVATION OF MAN IS GOD'S (JOHN 15:5, ISAIAH 42:8)!