All Things Are Lawful Unto Me

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FHII

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What would that be? And how is it that you can "use Grace for the wrong reason"? What would that look like?

Much love!
Like I noted to another poster: using your likerty for a cloke of maliciousness. What would it look like? Well clearly our example here is the things the Corinthians were doing.
 

Sabertooth

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I wonder how this would work out for example as with the example given in Romans 7 of divorce and remarriage?
That's a whole 'nother
full
. Big Can of Worms
 
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marks

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I'm surprised you do not know something as primary as this marks.

In John 16:33 Jesus tells his disciples to take heart because he has overcome the world and in Revelation 17:21 he will give the right to sit with him on his throne to those who overcome just as he overcame.
Temptation and sin of course......the allure to go back to our natural default position of dysfunction (because that's what sin is and more than that, it is rebellion disguised as piety. It is the desire to pull the wool over ones own eyes and well as God's, let alone the eyes of others.
My signature statement is its epitome : 'What men want is a method of forgetting God that shall pass as a method of remembering him' EGW

Interestingly, after commenting on my assumed ignorance, you only answered 1 out of 2.

Overcoming the world, having victory over the world, the flesh, and all that is in them. I think we answer the same.

And how? How does that happen?

Much love!
 

quietthinker

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Interestingly, after commenting on my assumed ignorance, you only answered 1 out of 2.

Overcoming the world, having victory over the world, the flesh, and all that is in them. I think we answer the same.

And how? How does that happen?

Much love!
Those with the Spirit of God have the power of God to overcome. There are no magic formulas.
 

marks

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Those with the Spirit of God have the power of God to overcome

1 John 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1 John 5:5
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Christ in you, and faith in Him. This is what overcomes.

So if I were to ask the question, what is it that overcomes, faith, or works, it seems the answer is, Faith in Christ in me.

Much love!
 
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brakelite

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Here is what I see as the main points he was making. "All things are permissible" (this translation is better than "lawful," as a different word is used in the Greek) appears to have become a mantra the Corinthians had adopted, but while it applied well regarding some things such as eating unclean foods and meat sacrificed to idols, Paul was saying it did not apply where sexual immorality was concerned. They appear to have made the jump from "Meats for the belly and the belly for meats" to "means of sexual release are for the body, and the body is for sexual release," which in turn would have justified the use of prostitutes. This was applying the principle of "All things are permissible" way too far. Whereas eating meats sacrificed to idols may be permissible (according to the vision given to Peter), yet it was not always beneficial to the believer because it caused their brothers and sisters to stumble. But this principle did not apply to sexual immorality, and thus sexual immorality was not permissible
I think that right there you have answered your own question to m me regarding the division in law. What we must obey and what we need not obey...God's laws which when broken is sin, and Moses laws which no longer apply.
 
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quietthinker

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1 John 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1 John 5:5
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Christ in you, and faith in Him. This is what overcomes.

So if I were to ask the question, what is it that overcomes, faith, or works, it seems the answer is, Faith in Christ in me.

Much love!
If you are overcoming you will know.
 

Giuliano

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If the life of faith teaches that we have full liberty, then it is the lack of faith to not fully believe that. And it is for freedom that Christ has made us free. And he who the Son sets free, is free indeed!

But that which lacks honor is be be given greater honor.

If you look a the full letter written by the council of the Apostles, they basically say, because the Jews living by you have been hearing Moses taught every week for all their lives, we want you to abstain from these things.
There is no such thing in that letter. It also forbids fornication -- would that also be to avoid offending the Jews? And if they wanted to avoid offense, why tell Gentile converts they could eat pork and other things?

If we take the full understanding, it's to say that these are "in your face" to the Jews, so don't do them. It's a matter of love.

Notice, he didn't tell them to abstain from eating unclean animals. Or to be sure to wear blue tassels. Or to keep the Sabbath.
Why not tell them to keep the Sabbath to avoid offending the Jews? Your reasoning doesn't stand up. Neither does Paul's since he is contradicting what the twelve agreed should be binding on Gentiles.

What I've been told is that they would sell meat that was offered to idols in the markets at reduced prices. So if you shopped from "that" meat counter, well, perhaps some of your Christian brothers may not want to eat with you. Or that you could get a cheap meal at the idol's temple.

Eating things offered to idols is fine, we all know the idol is nothing. They set a plate in front of a rock and mouth some words, it's all meaningless to us. It's just a rock, no matter what they think. Even in their minds offering food to a demon god, still, God made the porterhouse, the potato, the asparagus and mushrooms, the butter and parmesean and garlic, the triple fudge cake. So I don't care where they've been, it's my favorite meal, and I'm eating it!

But . . . if someone is there who believes we shouldn't, out of love for them, I'll pass. And then I'll go home and cry!

Much love!
So what would the harm be in bowing to an idol?
Do you want to steal?

If you don't want to, you don't need to be told not to. The new man does not want to steal. So if you want to steal, it just means you aren't trusting God, and rather than obey the "Do Not Steal" law, instead of that, simply return to trusting in God. Put off the old man, and put on the new man. Don't steal anymore, instead, work, make things, so you can give to those who are running out of options except to steal.

Trust God, and serve others. That's the only law we need.

Much love!
Why didn't Paul say something like that then instead of saying all things (which would include stealing) are lawful?
 

marks

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There is no such thing in that letter. It also forbids fornication -- would that also be to avoid offending the Jews? And if they wanted to avoid offense, why tell Gentile converts they could eat pork and other things?

Acts 15
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Much love!
 

Giuliano

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Acts 15
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Much love!
That was not in the letter.

Acts 15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.


The Apostles said those were "necessary" things. Paul says, "No, eat meat offered to idols if you want."

The Apostles mentioned it when discussing it. If Gentiles were hearing the books of Moses read in synagogues, they should know what did and what did not apply to Gentiles' otherwise they could be misled. That's how I read it.
 
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brakelite

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"All things ate lawful"..."I can do anything"...
I fear that some Christians are teaching that sin is now lawful. Does this not bother anyone? Are we now so blinded by self delusion that we deny outright "sin is transgression against the law" in order to make "All things are lawful" harmonise with our refusal to recognise God's authority through His law?
 
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brakelite

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Acts 15
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Much love!
So it's okay to strangle your mother so long as you don't eat her afterwards.
 
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Giuliano

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OK.

Do you disregard it, regardless?
No, I gave my opinion about why it was mentioned. The Apostles knew many Gentile converts were attending synagogues and hearing the books of Moses being read, so they needed to be told that the various laws in those books were not meant for them. Then they gave a list of things that Gentiles shouldn't do.
 

marks

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No, I gave my opinion about why it was mentioned. The Apostles knew many Gentile converts were attending synagogues and hearing the books of Moses being read, so they needed to be told that the various laws in those books were not meant for them. Then they gave a list of things that Gentiles shouldn't do.
OK. My read is different.

The connecting word "for", gives causality.
 

amadeus

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I'm surprised you do not know something as primary as this marks.

In John 16:33 Jesus tells his disciples to take heart because he has overcome the world and in Revelation 17:21 he will give the right to sit with him on his throne to those who overcome just as he overcame.
Temptation and sin of course......the allure to go back to our natural default position of dysfunction (because that's what sin is and more than that, it is rebellion disguised as piety. It is the desire to pull the wool over ones own eyes and well as God's, let alone the eyes of others.
My signature statement is its epitome : 'What men want is a method of forgetting God that shall pass as a method of remembering him' EGW
Your reference should be Rev 3:21 rather than 17:21