All Things Are Lawful Unto Me

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brakelite

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Now, did I say that?

;)
Not in so many words no. But I read numerous times from Christians that the council gave Gentiles only those four instructions...often as an argument against the 4th commandment, and as an excuse for eating anything that happens to be put on the menu...including stuff that God says is not food...So on that basis just about anything goes add far add Gentiles are concerned.
 
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brakelite

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The way that Christ overcame was through self denial...we are told repeatedly throughout scripture that this is a principle Christian virtue, and how we should therefore overcome as Christ did. It is often in threads like this that we see the opposite being exhibited. Human reasoning displacing God's authority by Christians who seek first to find reasons not to obey God's commandments rather than simply taking God at His word.
 

marks

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Not in so many words no. But I read numerous times from Christians that the council gave Gentiles only those four instructions...often as an argument against the 4th commandment, and as an excuse for eating anything that happens to be put on the menu...including stuff that God says is not food...So on that basis just about anything goes add far add Gentiles are concerned.
Seriously, brakelite, did I say that in Any words? Implied? The apostles wrote to the gentiles these four things. That's all we can say about that particular council and letter.

I believe the reality is that the apostles gave the gentiles baby steps work with, as Jesus sanctified them more. Like saying, be mindful of those around you, considering what they think, so don't do these things. Maybe these happened to be the most offensive to old covenant Jews at the time, I don't know why he said those. Maybe the rest of their morals agreed, and these were the primary differences. I can only speculate.

But we know much more was written to the gentiles with instruction in righteousness, and correction, and all the rest.

So I really don't think the by omitting this instruction the apostles were giving implicit permission to either strangle or eat your mother.

:eek:

Much love!
 

Waiting on him

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Seriously, brakelite, did I say that in Any words? Implied? The apostles wrote to the gentiles these four things. That's all we can say about that particular council and letter.

I believe the reality is that the apostles gave the gentiles baby steps work with, as Jesus sanctified them more. Like saying, be mindful of those around you, considering what they think, so don't do these things. Maybe these happened to be the most offensive to old covenant Jews at the time, I don't know why he said those. Maybe the rest of their morals agreed, and these were the primary differences. I can only speculate.

But we know much more was written to the gentiles with instruction in righteousness, and correction, and all the rest.

So I really don't think the by omitting this instruction the apostles were giving implicit permission to either strangle or eat your mother.

:eek:

Much love!


This is an interesting post, one of the most offensive things Jesus spoke to the Pharisees was you must eat my flesh and drink my blood.
 

Enoch111

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But I read numerous times from Christians that the council gave Gentiles only those four instructions...often as an argument against the 4th commandment, and as an excuse for eating anything that happens to be put on the menu...including stuff that God says is not food...So on that basis just about anything goes add far add Gentiles are concerned.
In response to this let's set the record straight (in opposition to SDA teachings):

1. In Acts 15 the Holy Spirit was directly involved in the decision made by the apostles and elders. Check it out for yourself.

2. The issue before everyone was to what extent was the Law of Moses applicable to Gentiles (also keeping in mind that within a few years the temple at Jerusalem would be destroyed).

3. The injunctions given to Gentiles were exactly four, of which three impacted on the consumption of blood (even meats sacrificed to idols would have retained their blood since the pagans had no compunction about the consumption of blood). The other issue of refusing meats offered to idols was addressed by Paul.

4. The issue of the acceptability of all meats was not brought up here (but Paul clarifies it in his epistles, and we will address this below), but had God desired that the Church observe the 7th day sabbath, it would have been clearly stated right here. In fact it was not.

5. At the same time we see from NT Scriptures that the Lord's Day was established by the Lord Himself (through His resurrection on the first day of the week, the morrow after the sabbath) and the Lord's Supper was to be partaken on the Lord's Day while Christians worshiped together. We know from Justin Martyr's written testimony that this was an established Christian practice by the 2nd century. So in effect the Lord's Day became the Christian Sabbath, and would fulfil the 4th commandment.

6. Getting back to the acceptability of ALL MEATS, we need to examine three Scriptures:

ALL MEATS ACCEPTABLE, BUT BLOOD FORBIDDEN
Every moving thing [living creature] that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. (Gen 9:3,4)

NO MEATS CAN POLLUTE THE SOUL AND SPIRIT
There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile... Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats? (Mk 7:15,19)

CHRISTIANS MAY EAT ALL MEATS WITH THANKSGIVING

1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. (1 Tim 4:1-4)

As we see here, commanding to abstain from meats (or certain meats) is a doctrine of demons. I trust you will take these Scriptures to heart, since they are indeed the Word of God.

 
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Mal'ak

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I could debate all of that, but it wasn't my intention to go in that direction, as I clearly pointed out. Thus, I won't be responding to such.

The way that Christ overcame was through self denial...we are told repeatedly throughout scripture that this is a principle Christian virtue, and how we should therefore overcome as Christ did. It is often in threads like this that we see the opposite being exhibited. Human reasoning displacing God's authority by Christians who seek first to find reasons not to obey God's commandments rather than simply taking God at His word.

Exactly brakelite, we saw that at start of this thread. Enoch111 posted the context of the chapter to FHII which made his entire argument null and void, yet as the common Christian thing to do these days, he ignored God's Word and decided to dismiss the fact God was rebuking his false doctrine because he wanted to be right and push the narrative that pleased his flesh and traditions of man.

Matthew 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

Matthew 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

What is the common narrative of Christians on this site? To be evil, enjoy life, not bare any cross.

1. Start with this thread, about "all is lawful", which we saw from Enoch111 post and several places in the Word that it is taken out of context. But they use one verse to suggest they can willfully and knowingly sin against God, this promotes evil. One of the unforgivable sins is knowingly and willingly sinning.

2. Look at past threads about works, most here on this forums that proclaim to be Christians are against doing works. "I just have to believe and watch tv my entire life", how is that a light to the world? How is that being a productive servant? How is that in line with the teachings of the Word of God? It is not, it is lazy and self absorbed, clearly flesh minded as the flesh is lazy.

3. Big thing is rapture, everywhere in the Bible says Christians will be here, not one verse says we will be taken into the sky before the tribulation. But they lie and use verses out of context, because they do not trust God or have faith in God, they are scared of the end times so it is better to come up with a lie that they will be gone so they feel comforted. That is the flesh working, because a Christian's soul trusts God and we can be placed face to face with satan and know God will protect us. They don't, because their flesh is in control, so it breads doubt and fear.
 

FHII

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Exactly brakelite, we saw that at start of this thread. Enoch111 posted the context of the chapter to FHII which made his entire argument null and void, yet as the common Christian thing to do these days, he ignored God's Word and decided to dismiss the fact God was rebuking his false doctrine because he wanted to be right and push the narrative that pleased his flesh and traditions of man.

Matthew 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

Matthew 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

What is the common narrative of Christians on this site? To be evil, enjoy life, not bare any cross.

1. Start with this thread, about "all is lawful", which we saw from Enoch111 post and several places in the Word that it is taken out of context. But they use one verse to suggest they can willfully and knowingly sin against God, this promotes evil. One of the unforgivable sins is knowingly and willingly sinning.

2. Look at past threads about works, most here on this forums that proclaim to be Christians are against doing works. "I just have to believe and watch tv my entire life", how is that a light to the world? How is that being a productive servant? How is that in line with the teachings of the Word of God? It is not, it is lazy and self absorbed, clearly flesh minded as the flesh is lazy.

3. Big thing is rapture, everywhere in the Bible says Christians will be here, not one verse says we will be taken into the sky before the tribulation. But they lie and use verses out of context, because they do not trust God or have faith in God, they are scared of the end times so it is better to come up with a lie that they will be gone so they feel comforted. That is the flesh working, because a Christian's soul trusts God and we can be placed face to face with satan and know God will protect us. They don't, because their flesh is in control, so it breads doubt and fear.


{Smile}. Have a good day... And I wish you well in your endeavors to be an upright Christian. I don't have it in me to measure up. I'm just going to have to rely on Grace through my faith.
 

farouk

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{Smile}. Have a good day... And I wish you well in your endeavors to be an upright Christian. I don't have it in me to measure up. I'm just going to have to rely on Grace through my faith.
"By grace..through faith" is the true standard, right?
 

Mal'ak

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{Smile}. Have a good day... And I wish you well in your endeavors to be an upright Christian. I don't have it in me to measure up. I'm just going to have to rely on Grace through my faith.

Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

...enjoy the broadway and wide gate, your easy walk is your reward.
 

Mal'ak

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"By grace..through faith" is the true standard, right?

Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

That is a lie, for those not wanting to be Christ-like but ease their conscience. You see murderers and gangsters paying the church millions of dollars, so the priest will "forgive their sins" on Sunday just to go back killing and raping on Monday with a clear conscience.

Matthew 22:10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

Matthew 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:

Matthew 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

Matthew 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Faith and Grace is a free gift given by God, when he calls people to the spiritual wedding of Christ. This is the first step of being a Christian, God opening your eyes with a free gift. But that is not the end of your Christian walk, as we see from the parable of Jesus, if you do not come to the wedding in a "wedding garment" or having prepared and walked a righteous life of works then when Jesus returns or when they die they will be thrown with the non-believers. There is no "just believe", that is the first step, then it falls on us to live Christ-like so we are "Chosen".

Matthew 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

Matthew 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Matthew 13:3 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Jesus directs people the Parable of the Sower, because it shows that receiving the Word of God is just the first step and means nothing if there is no fruit or spiritual works that come from it. Many "Christians" get faith and Grace, they are excited about being Christians for while, until tribulation comes and they are offended. Then those "Christians" turn from God, or they start living a lie of false doctrine. Like the topic here, these Christians fear they are not good people as they are told they have to be righteous, so they make void the Word of God with their traditions of man, coming up with false doctrine of "By grace..through faith" so they can ease their conscience that they can willfully sin against God but it is ok because they have "no law" to follow.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Hebrews 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
 
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farouk

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Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

That is a lie, for those not wanting to be Christ-like but ease their conscience. You see murderers and gangsters paying the church millions of dollars, so the priest will "forgive their sins" on Sunday just to go back killing and raping on Monday with a clear conscience.

Matthew 22:10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

Matthew 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:

Matthew 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

Matthew 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Faith and Grace is a free gift given by God, when he calls people to the spiritual wedding of Christ. This is the first step of being a Christian, God opening your eyes with a free gift. But that is not the end of your Christian walk, as we see from the parable of Jesus, if you do not come to the wedding in a "wedding garment" or having prepared and walked a righteous life of works then when Jesus returns or when they die they will be thrown with the non-believers. There is no "just believe", that is the first step, then it falls on us to live Christ-like so we are "Chosen".

Matthew 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

Matthew 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Matthew 13:3 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Jesus directs people the Parable of the Sower, because it shows that receiving the Word of God is just the first step and means nothing if there is no fruit or spiritual works that come from it. Many "Christians" get faith and Grace, they are excited about being Christians for while, until tribulation comes and they are offended. Then those "Christians" turn from God, or they start living a lie of false doctrine. Like the topic here, these Christians fear they are not good people as they are told they have to be righteous, so they make void the Word of God with their traditions of man, coming up with false doctrine of "By grace..through faith" so they can ease their conscience that they can willfully sin against God but it is ok because they have "no law" to follow.
Oh I agree about 'the obedience of faith' / 'obedience to the faith', as Paul himself said, who also penned Ephesians 2.8-9 by the Spirit.
 

FHII

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Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

...enjoy the broadway and wide gate, your easy walk is your reward.
How cute... Some folks just can't help but to be accusers just like their daddy!
 
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Mal'ak

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How cute... Some folks just can't help but to be accusers just like their daddy!

Matthew 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

...by your fruits...I use the Word of God, you do not.
 

FHII

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Matthew 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

...by your fruits...I use the Word of God, you do not.
How cute and funny! Tell me another!
 
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brakelite

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In response to this let's set the record straight (in opposition to SDA teachings):

1. In Acts 15 the Holy Spirit was directly involved in the decision made by the apostles and elders. Check it out for yourself.

2. The issue before everyone was to what extent was the Law of Moses applicable to Gentiles (also keeping in mind that within a few years the temple at Jerusalem would be destroyed).

3. The injunctions given to Gentiles were exactly four, of which three impacted on the consumption of blood (even meats sacrificed to idols would have retained their blood since the pagans had no compunction about the consumption of blood). The other issue of refusing meats offered to idols was addressed by Paul.

4. The issue of the acceptability of all meats was not brought up here (but Paul clarifies it in his epistles, and we will address this below), but had God desired that the Church observe the 7th day sabbath, it would have been clearly stated right here. In fact it was not.

5. At the same time we see from NT Scriptures that the Lord's Day was established by the Lord Himself (through His resurrection on the first day of the week, the morrow after the sabbath) and the Lord's Supper was to be partaken on the Lord's Day while Christians worshiped together. We know from Justin Martyr's written testimony that this was an established Christian practice by the 2nd century. So in effect the Lord's Day became the Christian Sabbath, and would fulfil the 4th commandment.

6. Getting back to the acceptability of ALL MEATS, we need to examine three Scriptures:

ALL MEATS ACCEPTABLE, BUT BLOOD FORBIDDEN
Every moving thing [living creature] that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. (Gen 9:3,4)

NO MEATS CAN POLLUTE THE SOUL AND SPIRIT
There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile... Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats? (Mk 7:15,19)

CHRISTIANS MAY EAT ALL MEATS WITH THANKSGIVING

1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. (1 Tim 4:1-4)

As we see here, commanding to abstain from meats (or certain meats) is a doctrine of demons. I trust you will take these Scriptures to heart, since they are indeed the Word of God.
I think people need to be honest about the Sabbath. Like you are attempting to do above, people using circumstances and events to justify a tradition does not amount to a "Jesus changed the day for Christians". Your going to the bible to find support to validate a preconceived acceptance of a tradition is not the same as going to the bible to learn doctrine.
 

CovenantPromise

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The Biblical text:

1 Corinthians 6:12 KJV
All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

1 Corinthians 10:23 KJV
All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

These are some pretty profound verses which I wish many would consider. Some general observations:

1. We should take into context what Paul's problem was with the Church at Corinth. I do not believe it was their sins (though they were sinning and Paul wasn't happy about it) but rather they were mistreating others with their sins and letting unbelievers judge them.

2. Does this verse really mean "ALL" things? I believe it does, as it pertains to the flesh. It doesn't pertain to spiritual sin which is false worship. THAT could be a big discussion, of course, but it's not the direction I want to go.

The verses do say all things are lawful. That's part one. Part 2 is that: even though they are lawful, it doesn't make them expedient (practical, moral, necessary). It doesn't mean we should be controlled by them (even if we do engage in them from time to time). And it certainly doesn't mean they edify (give glory to) us or God.

In short, Just because we have liberty and Grace (through faith) doesn't mean we should or do act upon it.

So, I will not go into a long commentary. But I will say that yes, all things are lawful and covered by gràce. (Again with the caveat that I believe it is fleshly allowance). But that by no means makes it right, good, or non harmful. Grace covers the sin, but not the consequences! Grace may cover me from seeking out prostitutes (something I DO NOT DO), but Grace isn't going to keep me from getting AIDS and it's not going to keep my marriage from being harmed. It also isn't going to glofify God in any way and it's going to bring reproach to the Church. As an extreme example....

Whether you believe that Grace covers all things of the flesh (as I do), all things otherwise, or you don't believe it covers all things at all... It's an interesting verse to wrap your thoughts around.

Even us who believe it covers all things should consider that we have a responsibility to understand this verse. And those who don't believe all things are lawful, well... The Bible does say it, but such liberty does come with responsibility! And those who don't believe all things are lawful should at least understand that those who do understand these verses. In other words, just because we believe all things are lawful doesn't mean we are doing all things!

One more pertinent verse, without comment (for now):

1 Peter 2:16-17 KJV
As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God. [17] Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.
Yes it was about sin. That is why Christ came- "to set the captives free". I noticed something in your post, the obvious overlooked.
If you notice Paul uses quo "tation" marks . He is repeating their claim in attitude- the Corinthians.
1 Corinthians 6:12
Sexual Immorality
12 “I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but I will not be mastered by anything'.

Paul is pointing out what they say- (I have the right to do anything), and he replies "but not everything is beneficial" and then quotes another of their claims-(I have the right to do anything - but I will not be mastered by anything")This is what the Corinthians would say. And this attitude is as many feel throughout time. Men say all that, because they think they can do what they feel or not feel -as they please and that means they are not mastered by anything but are masters over whatever it is (THEY DECIDE TO DO) and think they can do so as Christians. Paul is saying they are actually mastered by the flesh and that is why they do what they do to begin with AND WHAT THEY SAY AND DO IS NOT BENEFICIAL. As for all the rest of the bunk in this OP and the replies to, outside of the truth, that should be put in the "Unorthodox " portion of this forum because the interp. is worse than any fable one can speak. SIN IS THE EXACT THING PAUL IS ADDRESSING.
And if you read the prior:

Members of Christ

9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts, 10nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Paul, when he put quotes, he is not quoting himself .The Whole letter is from him. He is quoting the Corinthians.
 
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FHII

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Yes it was about sin. That is why Christ came- "to set the captives free". I noticed something in your post, the obvious overlooked.
If you notice Paul uses quo "tation" marks . He is repeating their claim in attitude- the Corinthians.
Yea... Well, no you didn't notice it my post. I used the KJV and no, in that version there are no quotation marks.

In other versions there are, but I am pretty sure that if you look at the context of the letter, Paul wasn't quoting the Corinthians.