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Featured Always Spirit-Filled Or Unsaved?

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Enow, Feb 14, 2020.

  1. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

    So are we always Spirit-filled or unsaved?

    2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

    Are we a new creature like new wine bottles able to hold the new wine; hence the Holy Spirit being in us always, and thus we have been reconciled to God thru Jesus Christ or not?

    Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

    Are we sealed with the Holy Spirit of God unto that day of redemption or not?

    How else can any one say that Jesus Christ is Our Savior unless we are a new creature in Christ, always Spirit-filled, and thus saved as new wine in new wine bottles as preserved?

    Why else would His disciples proclaim Jesus Christ as the Good News to man unless they have been reconciled and thus saved by coming to and believing in Jesus Christ?

    John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

    Always Spirit-filled after having come to and believed in Jesus Christ for salvation is why we shall never hunger nor thirst to be filled any more because we are saved.
     
  2. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    This is a classic case of a misreading of the bible leading to dogmatic errors and assumptions leading to wrong conclusions.

    They who say they are always spirit filled...say that because they never have....otherwise they would know what intimacy with God really is. They would know the difference between being prone to sin...and being holy as God us holy. It would not be taken so glibly.

    Even John in Rev. 1 says...I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day. Now why did he say that? If it assumed one is always in the Spirit...why differentiate the days? Paul exhorts believers to enter into Christ and be filled. BE filled....not you are already filled so just rest on your laurels...


    And for they who have actually been filled...or even have walked in the Spirit....that is an experience that come in and out of.
     
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  3. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. It is more like continue to be being filled...I know darned well when I am NOT walking in the Spirit and these times can bring on thoughts of self condemnation. Then, it is back to that roller coaster of begging His forgiveness and to learn from it and grow each day anew. His mercies being new daily is what keeps me striving.
     
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  4. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

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    Check with the Lord Jesus Christ at that throne of grace to make sure that you are not the one actually doing that, brother.

    So the warning not to defile the temple of God is impossible and thus moot? We are always Spirit-filled for why we are accountable for what we sow towards while in this body of death; either to the fruits of the Spirit or to the works of the flesh. If we seek to be Spirit-filled in order for us to sow to the fruits of the Spirit, the corruptible flesh would win, but it is not so because we are the sons of God as always Spirit-filled so we can sow to the fruits of the Spirit by looking to the author & finisher of our faith ( Hebrews 12:1-2 ), the Lord Jesus Christ, to finish His work in us ( Philippians 1:6 & 2 Timothy 4:18 )whereby all the fruits of righteousness are by Jesus Christ to the glory of God. Philippians 1:11

    Given that John was explaining how he was in the third Heaven in that day, would be why he had said that. Otherwise, we would be left with the question of how he could write the Book of Revelations and wonder if he had dreamt it or something.

    Paul knew he was caught up into the third heaven but didn't know exactly how in the Spirit this was done.

    2 Corinthians 12:1It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

    Any verse you quote citing entering into Christ and be filled ought to be about salvation and nothing else.

    If we are all suppose to speak the same thing, then hose who differentiate from this testimony below is preaching another calling & another spirit.

    1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

    2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

    1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

    2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

    So you are always Spirit-filled or else no one can pass that examination in the faith.
     
  5. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Being attentive to the Spirit or being led by the Spirit are not the same as walking IN the Spirit. There are a great many distances possible to follow Jesus from.:)
     
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  6. Renniks

    Renniks Well-Known Member

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    Nobody is always Spirit filled. If that's the case nobody would remain saved.
     
  7. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

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    I doubt a drunkard coming home to his wife, wishing to get away with his night's escapade, can pray to the Lord to fill him with the Spirit to get sober again before he goes into the house.

    Ephesians 5:18 is about staying sober as remained filled with the fruit of the Spirit ( temperance) which is self control since it is in opposition to the work of the flesh which is drunkenness that believers were to avoid by not drinking wine in excess to get drunk.
     
  8. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    This is ridiculous and a parody of God's grace. I don't see anything in your posts that would suggest anything other than a religious bent based on theories.
     
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  9. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

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    Since the indwelling Holy Spirit is sent to testify of the Son ( John 15:26 ) thru us ( John 15:27 ) then that is where the bride should be attentive towards hence the Bridegroom Himself, the Lord Jesus Christ. There is no focus on the Holy Spirit when the Holy Spirit is leading us to focus on the Son in living that reconciled relationship with God the Father.
     
  10. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Theoretically you mean. I am not on the forums to listen to religious people that have no experience but are quick with armchair theories. ,
     
  11. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

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    All I see in your post is making manifestations of what you think is the Holy Spirit filling believers again and again and again your focus and that is why there are movements of confusion when believers look for a sign in receiving the "Spirit" again "apart" from salvation.

    Jesus said this that the Father will send the Holy Spirit as promised for all those that knock at the door of Jesus Christ and once they had received that promise, they would never ask for Him again because that would make the Father look evil as if He did not give you the Holy Spirit the first time as promised.

    Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

    So how can you claim the verses in the OP in your ministry when you are giving doubt to that reconciliation and that salvation if you are a leaky vessel still seeking to be continually filled?

    How is that not like the foolish virgins out to the market seeking to be filled for why they were not ready for the Bridegroom? Being always Spirit-filled is the testimony from God that you are saved and why we are to shine that light of what He has done to others to promote the gosple of Jesus Christ and no other calling or filling is required.
     
  12. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

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    Having been exposed to such phenomenons, we are to go to His words to discern good and evil. No armchair quarterbacking here. Have I been to all of them? No, but they all speak the same thing and the cause and effect may differ, but it is of the same evil tree bearing evil fruits.

    Decide this day whom you will serve, the Lord Jesus Christ or something else in His name hence a movement with a flamboyant name in its banner.

    It is Whoever or whatever you seek to promote to glorify, is what makes you a disciple of.
     
  13. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

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    The verses in the OP testify how you can be an ambassador for Christ because you have been reconciled, thus a new creature and always Spirit-filled.

    Remember this verse from the OP?

    Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

    Since the Holy Spirit is always in us is why we are warned not to grieve Him. If He was not always in us, then we would not be able to grieve Him.
     
  14. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    But that's not the point. To be filled with the Spirit one needs to go where the Lord is selling/granting it. You need to also abide IN Christ...not just Christ in you. The Christ in you is about learning maturity. Going to God and being filled is about holiness and purity...NO sin.
     
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  15. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

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    And also.. be kind of hard to warn believers to not chase after the Holy Spirit to a certain place for every sign and wonder claiming too.

    Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

    Just like Catholics who flock to the virgin Mary at certain places for signs and wonders, and yet the discernment on the two is all invitations in coming to God the Father is by the only way of the Son ( John 14:6 ) and that since the Holy Spirit is in us ( 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 ), there is no getting any closer to God other than by learning of the Son to grow in the knowledge of Him thru the scripture and not by signs and wonders at a place.
     
  16. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    When you talk as if you know something...you sink...fast. But when you question things...then it is possible for you to look at things you have not yet considered. So I'm not writing you off...just trying to filter through your misshapen theories.
     
  17. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    I see this as always striving to be complete in him, and none of us has reached those heights as far as I can see.

    • Philippians 3:12-14

      "Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. "
     
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  18. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

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    So everybody needs to stop preaching the calling of the gospel and just be involved in all of those other callings? Who has time for preaching Jesus Christ & Him crucified? Apparently that is all Paul talked about in 1 Corinthians 2:2.

    Like I say to the Catholics, there is an absence of such emphasis in scripture for their works of Catholicism as there is in what you are promoting in going to a specific place or any place to get more filling of the Spirit, and yet there are scripture reproving both the works of Catholicism and your "calling" as not being of Him at all and can be seen as works that deny Him. So take a step back and go before that throne of grace in normal prayer.
     
  19. Renniks

    Renniks Well-Known Member

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    Depends what you mean by in us. The Spirit is always there, but we don't always allow him to come to the forefront. Think about the most spiritual people you've ever met. Do you believe every word that ever comes out of their mouth is from the Spirit? If this were the case there would be no war between the Spirit and the flesh, and we would be perfect. You know any perfect people?
     
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  20. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

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    When the Lord Jesus Christ has kept me from falling in serving those other movements and has shown me the truth in His words why it is not of Him, it is thanks to Jesus Christ as my Good Shepherd that I know the truth to judge rightly by the word of truth that it is not of Him at all.

    You cannot defend "slain in the spirit" as being of God when God is not the author of confusion in all churches of the saints. Ask yourself, can a divided house stand or fall? And yet something is dividing that believer for him to fall, losing the fruit of temperance which is self control.

    Proverbs 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. 27 It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory. 28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

    1 Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

    So believing the lie that you can taking another drink of the One Spirit is why God permits that strong delusion to occur. Need I point out your departure from this testimony that we are all supposed to share?

    1 Corinthians 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

    So by departing from that testimony above in verse 13 is why you are seen as preaching another calling, another Jesus to receive, another spirit to receive and yet not receive because you are still seeking to receive. and yet preaching many gospels while you are at it too.

    Feel free to explain how that cannot be applied to what you are doing or saying.
     
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