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Featured am I a "false teacher"

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Randy Kluth, Jul 4, 2020.

  1. Randy Kluth

    Randy Kluth Well-Known Member

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    Yea, pretty well said, although we may see some of this a little differently--I'm not sure. When Paul says "faith," again, he is speaking in "shorthand," expressing "faith" in its more elaborate form--"faith in Christ," or "faith for salvation." The righteousness of the Law operated by faith in the OT, but it was not yet "faith in Christ" because faith had not yet come. When Christ came, "faith in Christ" came, and previous faith under the Law was fulfilled as "faith in Christ."

    So saints were accepted by their faith under the Law, and their righteousness was real. But they were not permanently justified until the "faith in Christ" came, to complete faith in an eternal object--Christian atonement. Faith under the Law was a faith in temporary atonement, and had hope that God would find a means of eternal redemption, which of course happened when Christ came.

    In other words, faith in the OT trusted in temporary sacrifices like animal sacrifices for a temporary means of atonement, and as a temporary means of maintaining a relationship with a holy God. Obeying God's word made the faith of the saints acceptable before God until God perfected their faith in an eternal atonement, Christ.

    OT faith did qualify for NT faith, because the object of faith is not faith itself, but rather, the object of that faith, which is God's word. And God's word has resolved temporary atonement in the eternal atonement of Christ. All those who truly obeyed God under the Law in faith qualify for the eternal atonement of Christ. Those who truly obeyed the Law from the heart committed their whole heart and nature to God, and thus were very similar to today's born again Christian.
     
  2. Randy Kluth

    Randy Kluth Well-Known Member

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    Well yes. The Scriptures were designed to be handled as words coming directly from the mouth of God. We must respect the spirit with which God speaks it, and try to achieve the truthfulness it brings for our benefit.
     
  3. Adoration

    Adoration Well-Known Member

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    If I LOVE the SHEPHERD.... MY MASTER... and I KNOW HIS VOICE... I don't think I will collapse... I think we are living in the midst of a spiritual earthquake at this time... a baby one... in preparation for what is to come. Whether I listen to other's opinions and beliefs about Christian matters is of no importance... If due to mental health issues... I am unable to attend large gatherings... but strive to BE HIS CHURCH in the neighbourhood where I live... IF I listen to sermons by preachers who are preaching HIS WORD and sharing HIS TRUTH... then I do not believe I am in danger of collapsing... These forums bring all kinds of bizarre teachings... not many come from sound doctrine... most are EXTREME... thus I will not read what probably half the people that come here have to "teach".... and I will not post on any threads they post on... because I simply refuse to contribute to nonsense.... I think after much of what I have seen... I have the right to state this.
     
  4. marksman

    marksman My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her

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    It is obvious from the contributions of people here that the scripture is being interpreted according to denominational dictates, not by the Word itself which is the best commentary on scripture.

    There is a denomination called the metropolitan community church, which is a denomination run by homosexuals for homosexuals. To be a leader you have to be a homosexual or a lesbian. They use the Queen Janes Version of the bible which tells them that God created homosexuals and lesbians and he approves of their way of life. They tell us that what the bible says we say about homosexuality is not true because God loves the homosexual and because he does they do not need to change.

    The fact is most denominations do not agree with scripture about most things. They claim to be a bible believing church which is a lie because what they believe is their version of the bible, not what the bible actually says. One has only to see what the NTC did and what the present-day church does to realize this. Too many churches today are a social club for Christians and Christian in name only (CHINO).

    The true church today seems to be in countries like Iran, China, Africa, Nepal, Pakistan, etc as you can be hauled before the courts at the whim of some disgruntle Muslim and have a death sentence for being a Christian. Just like they did in the New Testament.

    No one knows where they stand until the rubber hits the road. Then we will find out if it is all or nothing. Life or death.
     
  5. brian100

    brian100 Well-Known Member

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    Just stick to what Jesus is teaching.
     
  6. marksman

    marksman My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her

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    Of course, you have the right to state this but I approach it from an alternative angle which is that iron sharpens iron. As I regularly say, you don't know what is wrong until you know what is right. The only way this can happen is by being exposed to all ideas and values and then to consider what stacks up to the teachings of scripture (not the teachings of denominations).

    So it never worries me if someone sets out a view that does not resonate with scripture as a lot of it doesn't so I let it go through to the keeper. But that does not mean I don't learn something from it, even if it is that it is not true.
     
  7. marksman

    marksman My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her

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    What is he teaching?
     
  8. Randy Kluth

    Randy Kluth Well-Known Member

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    Rather, I question your discernment, brother. Like you I have a teaching gift, and I also have had prophecies given me. But my point is that it isn't enough to have divine sanction and gifting--we can wander off the truth.

    I have no wish to criticize you. We're on the same side. I want to be a servant to you, to encourage you, but also it is my interest to correct anything that misses a beat in God's word.

    I've spent a lifetime learning it, and sometimes suffering for failing to know it or follow it. So I'm trying to help--not what you seem to think. Sorry you're getting the wrong impression.

    I have no beef with Stumpmaster or anybody, save this person who's going around calling me a false teacher. I don't even have a problem with that if that's what he really thinks.

    The point is, he needs to be able to point out where the infraction is, which he does not do. And so, until he does, I hold him to the standards of anyone who wishes to file a complaint--produce the evidence. Produce the facts.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2020
  9. Adoration

    Adoration Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't WORRY me ... it OFFENDS me... it ANGERS me... and it REPULSES me when people TEACH falsehoods about God... I'm not talking those who are simply believing differently about things that don't matter... I am talking about people who TEACH absolute FALSEHOODS about the things that do have an ABSOLUTE TRUTH. So many things to differ on... but when it comes to the NATURE of God there are certain TRUTHS... such as security of salvation... the fact that HE died for ALL man-kind...(not just a select few)... missing mass or the other sacraments does NOT mean you will go to hell ( unlike what the Catholics teach about sacraments )... These lies were not necessary to know in the first place... the bible is filled with TRUTH.... I think many of the TEACHERS need to SELF-ISOLATE and take a BREAK... in my opinion... LOL... Anyways... I am out of this topic... BLESS you.
     
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  10. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure who you are referring to but I don't believe I have called you a "wolf". But I have certainly told you in no uncertain terms that you are a false teacher -- at least when it comes to eschatology.

    You originated a thread recently in which you said:
    "The Olivet Discourse--Matt 24, Mark 13, and Luke 17;21--are indeed unique, but based squarely, I believe, on Dan 9--the 70 Weeks Prophecy. In that prophecy, Messiah comes in the 70th Week and is "cut off." That ends the 70th Week--right in the middle--and there ensues a time of trouble for the Jews. It begins with the destruction of the "city and the sanctuary" by the Roman Army in 70 AD. And it continues in the form of the Jewish Diaspora throughout the entire NT age."

    Davy responded with this comment which is true: "If you spent years studying it, then your result shows you studied it 'within' a framework based on men's tradition called Preterism. Doing that is about as realistic as calling a piece of round white plastic a fried egg."

    You responded with: "My views conform to historic beliefs, and is not my personal brain child."

    To which I responded with this: "Well you should have come up with your own brain child, since Historicism has been proved to be patently false. In fact, absurd."

    And then I said what is shown below and gave you a detailed breakdown of the Olivet Discourse, which totally refuted your beliefs.
    "To those who want the truth from Scripture (Matthew 24, Mark 13,Luke 21 all combined), here it is, without embellishment:"

    So getting back to the 70th week of Daniel, to place Christ within it when it belongs to the Antichrist is the mark of a false teacher. The first 3 1/2 years of the 70th week (which is yet future) are assigned to the reign of the Antichrist as numerous Scriptures confirm. So if you wish to retract this belief fine. Otherwise you are indeed misleading people as a false teacher. However, if you were to also present a false gospel, then Christians could rightly call you a "wolf".
     
  11. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Which part the part when Jesus rebuked Peter because Peters words came from the Pit of hell, was that God speaking, God gave us Christ, and by Christ His spirit, and by His Spirit acess to Him, yet all 3 have being denied by men, and insist its a good thing. Liek it says,

    Joh 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

    it says they dont believe Him whom was sent. So people read the bible thinking they can figure out God, what madness. And never go to Christ teh one in whom is there life.
     
  12. brian100

    brian100 Well-Known Member

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    Forgive and you will be forgiven.
    Do unto others as you want them to do to you.
    Liveth and believth & you shall never die
    Worrying will not add one more hour to your life.
    Ask your father he knows what you need!


    To name a few of my favs.
     
  13. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    The true church , the are the ones who spend there time seeking His face asking Him what to do, not those as you say, stuck in there religions, forever studying and never finding Christ who is the truth denying Gods power and His authority, even denying His spirit, you will never find His "true" church in a building because they are out doing the work of God, or hidden away biding there time.

    Isa_49:2 And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;
     
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  14. marksman

    marksman My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her

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    So the shroud is not one of your favorites?

    And what about those that are not your favourites?
     
  15. brian100

    brian100 Well-Known Member

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    Mark, All I'm saying is talking about scriptures that you will never understand is a waste of time when you can just go to Jesus for faith.
     
  16. marksman

    marksman My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her

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    So do tell me, how do you know that I will never understand specific scriptures? don't you think that is rather a sanctimonious claim?
     
  17. Randy Kluth

    Randy Kluth Well-Known Member

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    Speculation about eschatology in the Bible is not a legitimate basis for calling someone a "false teacher." You really need to read up on what constitutes a "false teacher" in the Bible. It is not your determination, so that you can call anyone who disagrees with you a "false teacher." Rather, it's when someone who's been a Christian begins to teach things that lead others away from Christ. Using your definition for "false teacher" you would have to condemn all Christians in history, including yourself.

    My view of Dan 9 and the 70 Weeks is validated in history as a typical Christian view. It certainly is not a "false teaching!" We have Creeds and Fundamentals that help us to decide what is orthodox and what is liberal. Heresy is not, by definition, what you do not personally agree with. You could be wrong yourself, and by your definition, that would make you a heretic!
     
  18. Randy Kluth

    Randy Kluth Well-Known Member

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    Well yes--that's the problem. They don't go to Christ, his word, his Spirit, and his truth. They apparently just don't like him. We do! :)
     
  19. Truther

    Truther Well-Known Member

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    Paul taught us that the Law is strictly for condemning mankind, and that it will always be in effect to judge mankind until all sin is eradicated.

    He taught the Law was a schoolmaster exclusively to bring folks to Christ that are sinners(not saints).

    Once a person is a saint, they are free from the Law.

    If they backslide, they backside back to the Law.

    The only folks that are not under the Law in this world are those that walk in the Spirit.


    One is only a false teacher by pushing saints to obey the Law(saying they remain under the schoolmaster).
     
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