Am I Wrong For Not Attending Church?

[Nomad]

Wayniac,I would like to thank you for posting that selection from ChristianAnswers.net. It's a wonderful answer to those who believe that "gathering together" is a take-it-or-leave-it proposition. I think I'm going to save it for future reference.

 

[MickinEngland]

You must have fellowship and edification through your local church

What if the church is no good?

 

[MickinEngland]

The way to demonstrate His sufficiency is to obey His commands and embrace His institutions.... something you appear reluctant to do

Did Jesus command us to go to bad churches?

 

[Nomad]

Did Jesus command us to go to bad churches?

O.K., I'll bite. What particularly makes the churches in your area so bad?

 

[mjrhealth]

Why you should not go to church. You see Jesus is coming for His bride, His church, it will be clean, spotless, without blemish, untainted by the world. The worldly church is none of these things, it is tainted with the world, has to change to continually find its place in the world, has many teachers but few of them are called to ministry, its doctrine is tainted and corrupted, it lays down rules and regulations, that one must abide by, it teaches what you want to hear not what you need to hear. If you are truly in Christ you already belong to His church, its a spiritual church where all His are of one mind and one accord, it has a place in the hearts and mind of men but has no physical structure. If you go to the worldly church, you will become tainted, Hence the call.," come out of her my people". If you sleep with a whore you will catch her diseases, if you stick your hand in a vat of dye it will become tainted. The choice is yours, to please men or ask Jesus to cleans you and prepare you for His wedding Feast. Like Jesus would say, " its a hard word, who will listen".In His Love

 

[MickinEngland]

[quote name='Nomad;71261]O.K.' date=' I'll bite. What particularly makes the churches in your area so bad?[/QUOTE'] Bad pastors and bad congregations. I don't doubt there are good ones somewhere but I personally haven't found any yet.Bad churches have always been around so it's nothing new, even Paul spoke of "false brothers" (2 Cor 11:26), and Jesus will say to them when they meet him "Get away from me" (Matt 7:22-23)Remember, true Christians are a small minority (Matt 7:13) so little wonder the bad churches far outnumber the good.Hence the Bible warning to stay clear of bad eggs (Prov 13:20)

 

[MickinEngland]

Agreed..

 

[Stumpmaster]

I had to find a new group to fellowship with 3 years ago. It wasn't easy starting again, but God's love never fails. Like the man the Good Samaritan ministered to in the parable, I have been set-upon, beaten up, robbed and left incapacitated, metaphorically speaking, by people in churches over the years. There are factions within the institutional church which collide and generate friction. There are prima donnas intent on being celebrities; there are autocrats who would rather suck on a lemon than show compassion; there are manic organisers who want everything and everyone to be recorded, rostered, reported, and ritualised. The institutional church is destined to become the Mother of Harlots, prostituting itself to the world, the flesh, and the devil. But still I keep going and growing as I learn that we are not to limit our forgiveness to the measure of our feelings. I forgive the church that crucifies Christians, and I bless the leaders and congregations struggling under heavy, ill-fitting yokes, carrying tiresome burdens and cumbersome loads just because that's what the program demands. Fortunately my wife and I have strong relationships with like-minded Christian friends that go back decades, and we have learnt not to get sucked into all the hype and illusion, and to shelter from the barrage of demands that emmanate from the church hierachies as they strive to project whatever image is fashionable at the time. There are ways to worship God, fellowship with His people, steward His resources, disciple His followers, and evangelise whosoever, without it becoming a grind, or without letting the problematic tares among the wheat ruin the crop. The Bible likens followers of Christ to sheep, not because we are stupid, but because like sheep we are helpless without our Shepherd. Thanks for listening.

 

[MickinEngland]

I've been giving cash donations to a small church group for some time now, but I recently found out they've been buying trashy books by mediums and other halfbaked authors.So i read the riot act to them and told them they're not getting another penny off me, and have cut off all contact with them.See what i mean about bad churches?

 

[Stumpmaster]

[quote name='MickinEngland;71281]I've been giving cash donations to a small church group for some time now' date=' but I recently found out they've been buying trashy books by mediums and other halfbaked authors.So i read the riot act to them and told them they're not getting another penny off me, and have cut off all contact with them.See what i mean about bad churches?[/QUOTE']Yes, I do see what you mean about bad churches... 2Corinthians 11:26(26) In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;

 

[MickinEngland]

[quote name='Stumpmaster;71384][I][COLOR=#808080][COLOR=#808080]in[/COLOR][/COLOR][/I][B] perils among false brethren;[/B][/QUOTE] Yes' date=' they're like viruses trying to infect the body of true believers-[I']"Ungodly men have slipped in among you" (Jude 1:4)[/I]

 

[Benoni]

What is the church? Some how over time we some how have come to the conclusion the church is a system, a building. There are two churches in the Bible Baby-lon and the ekklesia.Isaiah 4: 1And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.What does the word Church mean? It is a Greek Word “ecclesia” which simply means the called out. There is a true Church and a false Church; Baby lon is the false church; while the true Church is not a building, a system, denomination but Christ with in us, the hope of Glory. Jeremiah 51:7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD's hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.God uses Baby lon as shown by the verse above; but there is so much more. Four things men follow other then Christ: Colossians 2:8 See ye that no man deceive you by philosophy and vain fallacy, after the tradition of men, after the elements of the world, and not after Christ. Philosophy, vain fallacy, after the tradition of men, after the elements of the world, The name of God denotes the majesty the authority, the personality and the revealed character of God. In ever temple there is a god or and unseen god to which the temple is dedicated. God has given us a mind that must discover things for our selves. This goes even further when we understand that He is changing our mind from glory to glory so we can not just understand His Word; but that we understand what He is saying

 

[mjrhealth]

Simply put, if you choose to remain in church, if you choose to be part of religion, or a congreagation, than read rev 18. And then when you are finsihed reading, ask God for understanding. Then if you still choose to remain in their, remember this, Jesus is coming for a bride, that is spotless and unblemished, and the worldly church ,is considered the whore that sites on many waters,Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will show unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: Rev 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.If you sleep with a whore you become one with Her, and you will catch her diseases.Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. This is what marriage is all about, its not a certficate. Everytime you sleep with a different person, you become one with them, in Gods eyes you are married, ye some men and women have many wives and husbands, but God has only one bride for His Son, she is clean, for she is spiritaul and has no part with this world, you will not find her in a building, but in the hearts and minds of those who choose to belong to Jesus.In His LOve

 

[Benoni]

Reference to Jesus with the Samaritan women at the well. He knew that Jews did not often speak to Samaritans, but He said to her, "Please give me a drink." The woman saw from His looks and His dress that He was a Jew, and she said to Him, "How is it that you, who are a Jew, ask drink of me, a Samaritan woman?" Jesus answered her, "If you know what God's free gift is, and if you knew who it is that says to you, Give me a drink, you would ask Him to give you living water, and He would give it to you." She said to Him, "Sir, you have nothing to draw water with, and the well is deep. Where can you get that living water? Are you greater than our father Jacob, who drank from this well?" "Whoever drinks of this water, " said Jesus, "shall thirst again; but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him, shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up unto everlasting life." "Sir," said the woman, "give me some of this water of yours, so that I will not thirst any more nor come all the way to this well.She saw that there was a man who knew what a stranger could not know. She felt that God had spoken to Him and she said, "Sir, I see that you are a prophet of God. Tell me whether our people or the Jews are right. Our fathers have worshipped on this mountain. The Jews say that Jerusalem is the place where men should go to worship. Now, which of these is the right place?" Her concern, and the major issue of the moment for her, had to do with the specific proper location for worship. In this respect, this woman differed little from the multitudes in this hour who ask, "Where should we worship? What church should we attend? What ministry should we submit to?" The Lord did not dodge her question. Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe ME, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship Him. God is a spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth." The time would come, said the Lord, when both "this mountain" and "Jerusalem", as well as any other geographical locality, or appointed structure, would be considered completely irrelevant as a condition to worship.The Samaritans for generations had worshiped God in MountGerizim and the Jews had for generations worshiped in their temple in Jerusalem. Each scorned the other's place of worship and Jesus is here speaking to the woman of Samaria and telling her than PLACES ARE OF NO CONSEQUENCE. God is a spirit - and mountain worship will not be acceptable. Neither will temple worship in Jerusalem be acceptable to God. Anyone who claims to be able to worship God at any time and in any place becomes a heretic to the organized religionists. For, if the places of worship were taken away, and men truly worshiped in spirit and in truth, the whole religious system would fall apart. The Greek word for "assembling" is EPISUNAGOGE. The word, literally, is a verb meaning to synagogue. It is a compound of the Greek prefix EPI with the word SUNAGOGE from which we get our transliterated English word Synagogue. EPI means super- imposition - that which is above, higher than, highest, upon. SUNAGOGE means a meeting, assembly, or gathering. Putting these two words together, EPI- SUNAGOGE means THE ABOVE SYNAGOGUE, THE HIGHER MEETING, THE HIGHEST ASSEMBLY, THE HIGHER-THAN-ALL-GATHERINGS! It bespeaks of something far greater than merely collecting so many breathing bodies together in one place. It is a meeting in a higher realm, on a higher plane, in the high places of the Spirit, and in the heights of Truth. It is a gathering together in a dimension above. It indicates an assembling IN THE SPIRIT, as Paul also testified, "And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2:6). Tens of thousands, yea, tens of millions of believers gather together in "church buildings" every Sunday morning, and because they make the effort to get out of bed, get the family ready, and drive off to a warm pew, they are convinced that they have met the requirements of the divine fiat: "Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together."

 

[gervais]

It's unnecessary to attend a church that doesn't teach the Word of God but the words of men. You are better off going to a bar. Find a church that teaches God’s Word chapter-by-chapter and line-by-line.

 

[Nomad]

No one here has attempted to equate the Church with bricks and mortar. A building is nothing more than a utility and a convenience for following the Biblical command to gather together. A proper assembly can take place outside if you like.

Without trying to be insulting, I must say that this is incorrect. "Episunagoge," (επισυναγωγή), is a noun meaning "a gathering together into one place" or "the assembly." The verb form is "episunago," (επισυνάγω), Strongs # G1996.

This is incorrect as well. You seem to have misread Strong's dictionary. The word "superimposition" found in the entry for "epi," (επί), does not mean "that which is above," "higher than," or "highest." Those terms are simply not found in any lexical entry for "epi." The word "superimposition" means "to place over or upon." The other problem here is that a preposition such as "epi" has a variety of meanings which are determined by grammatical considerations and context, not theological presuppostions. If you're not familiar with those considerations it is unwise to go about choosing whichever meaning seems to fit your theology best. If you want to see how the prepostition "epi" works when attached to "sunagoge," (συναγωγή), which means "an assembly," all you need to do is look at the verbal form. Notice there the word "upon." The word "episunagoge" simply means an "assembly" or "collection" of persons "upon" the same place. G1996επισυνάγωepisunagōep-ee-soon-ag'-oFrom G1909 and G4863; to collect upon the same place: - gather (together).

For the reasons stated above, it does not mean this nor will you find any such definition or description of "episunagoge" in any Greek lexicon.

 

[savedbygrace57]

I believe if God does any converting right before He comes back, it will be people seperated from apostate religon..

 

[logabe]

Jeremiah tells us that God forsook that old city and its temple as He forsook Shiloh in an earlier time. The prophet tells us God's reasons for leaving Jerusalem in Jer. 7:9-11, 9 Will you steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and offer sacrifices to Baal, and walk after othergods that you have not known, 10 then come and stand before Me in this house, which is called by My name, and say, 'We are delivered!'--that you may do all these abominations?11 Has this house, which is called by My name, become a den of robbers in your sight? In other words, the people were being lawless, but religious enough to go to the temple and say "We are delivered." Christians do virtually the same thing today when they insist that Grace gives them a license to commit sin ( break the law of God). The more times change, the more it all stays the same. God's view, as expressed through Jeremiah, is that they had turned the temple into "a den of robbers." God then hired the Babylonian army to destroy that temple after He moved out. This same indictment came upon the second temple, when Jesus cast out the bankers from the temple (Matt. 21:12, 13). In applying that wording to the second temple, Jesus was prophesying its destruction as in the days of Jeremiah. Back in the days of Joshua, Israel set up the Ark of the Covenant in a town of Ephraim called Shiloh (Joshua 18:1). Jeremiah says in 7:12, 12 "But go now to My place which was in Shiloh, where I made My name dwell at the first, and see what I did to it because of the wickedness of My people Israel." That was how and why God forsook Shiloh. Three or four centuries later, God found fault with Jerusalem in the same manner as with Shiloh, according to Jeremiah. The temple in Jerusalem had become "a den of robbers" ( a hideout andrefuge from the law). Jeremiah 7:14-15, 14 Therefore, I will do to the house which is called by Name, in which you trust, and to the place which I gave you and your fathers, as I did to Shiloh.15 And I will cast you out of My sight, as I have cast out all your brothers, all the offspring of Ephraim." The prophet Ezekiel saw the divine presence leave that temple in stages. Ezekiel 10:4 says "the glory of God went up from the cherub to the threshold of the temple." In verse 19 the glory of His presence moved to the east gate. Finally in 11:23, 23 "And the glory of the Lord went up from the midst of the city and stood over the mountain which is east of the city." The prophet loses sight of it after it moves to the Mount of Olives on the east side of Jerusalem. The top of the mount was 2,000 cubits beyond the city wall, which was the legal definition of "outside the camp." After another 600+ years, Jesus came as the representative of the glory of God. After His death and resurrection, He ascended to heaven on the Mount of Olives (Acts 1:12), probably from the very spot where the glory of God was last seen by Ezekiel. This completed God's exodus from Jerusalem, now that Jesus had finished His ministry there. The glory of God had to ascend first in order to return to the new Temple ten days later on the day of Pentecost. This new Temple is made of "living stones" (1 Peter 2:5). Paul says in 1 Cor. 3:16, 16 "Do you not know that you are a temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?" When God left Shiloh, He never returned. God then left Jerusalem and treated that city "as I did to Shiloh." Since the fulfillment of Pentecost in Acts 2:1, He has chosen to indwell human flesh as His Temple. Each of us is a temple individually, but speaking corporately, we are each just one living stone in a collective Temple (Eph. 2:21). Modern Zionism now tells us that God is going to return to His former address that He abandoned years ago. Christian Zionism tells us that God did not really forsake Jerusalem "as Shiloh," but that He will return there after a new temple has been built on the old site. Jeremiah apparently got it all wrong. The Jews have received a free pass to be chosen in spite of lawlessness. No doubt most Christian Zionists have never really thought this through. They see no contradiction with the Spirit of God indwelling US and a physical temple in Jerusalem as well. Of course, it is presumed that the temple in Jerusalem is His preferred residence. But that is not the point. The point is that the old site was condemned as "a den of robbers," first in Jeremiah's day, and later by Jesus Himself. We already have two precedents that show us the consequences of such a judgment. Shiloh and Jerusalem were both destroyed; the glory of God departed; and His name is now in our foreheads (Rev. 22:4). The New Jerusalem is NOT the Old Jerusalem restored. It is a new location. And its temple is our body. Logabe

 

[Christian Commando]

In God's word, there is a distinction between two "Churches". 1- "Church of God"- "Know ye not that your body is the Temple of God." this refers to the "Body of Christ as being that "Church." 2- A Building- When the Apostles first brought souls to God thru Christ, they gathered in homes, etc- (Acts and first gentile Converts). Later, they either built new buildings or took over old original existing pagan Church buildings. Historical evidence proves this in some cases. But these two distinctions, can be noticed, in accordance to the Apostles' as well as Christ's Letters in Rev. to the "7 Churches"- (as buildings where gatherings of Saints occurred), to the "Church"- (Body of Christ). Both are Biblically correct, when used in thier proper context of meaning, per example given for a specific description of one or the other. Now, as far as the "Church" or "Temple"- (New Jerusalem) goes. I beg to differ on the above description. It will not be the "Body of Christ." Rev. 19, Here is a picture of Jesus Christ returning bodily to the Earth with 10,000's of His Saints- (The Bride of Christ, Body of Christ, Church), to rule and reign on the old Earth for 1,000 years. So, the "Body of Christ" is already back on the old Earth again there. After the end of that reign, the Great white Throne Judgement occurs. After that happens in Chap. 20, in 21, we see now, where John sees a "New Heaven appear, the old one gone. Then He sees a new Earth, with the old one gone. Lastly, he sees a "New Jerusalem", a physical "City", descending from Heaven to be placed back into the old original spot, the Old Jerusalem used to be on the Old Earth. 21:3- "And I heard a great voice out of Heaven saying, Behold the Tabernacle of God is with men, and He- (God) shall dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself shall be with them, and be thier God." V 10- And John was carried in the spirit up to Heaven, to see this "great City", the Holy Jerusalem, descending out of Heaven from God." Vs 11-23, are all physical descriptions of the make up of that "City". Kinda hard to say this is the "Body of Christ", when an Angel took actuall measurements of it, don't you think? Besides the detailed descriptions of various parts of it? Lets please avoid spiritualizing Scripture where God does not call for it. The replacement of the Old Heaven, Earth and Jeruslaem, is the same point God made, with noah, when flooded the Earth and left Noah and family, the only righteous ones found to repopulate the earth. starting man our "new" again. Then when He destroyed the original generation of Jews who kept sinning so terrible against God in the wilderness, for a "new" generation to go into the Promised Land. etc, etc. with more examples from there. But this will happen again in these "Last Days", where the unsaved, as well as those Jew/Gentile converts who go "apostate" from God will be left behind at the Rapture, then destroyed at Christ's "Bodily return" to earth later. But "Churches"- (as in buildings) are not to be avoided. Jesus instructed John to write to the "7 churches"- (buildings) also. For they had structured Leaderships over them and congregations- (gatherings of Saints) coming to them. Some of those first Leaders during the Apostles' time and shortly after them were - James, Simeon, Ignatius, Annanius, Timothy, Euodius, plus many more. while no, because the "Body of christ" first started out meeting in homes, its not against God to meet there instead of Churches. but, where is the support net of gathering together with greater numbers of Believers for the benefit of Worshipping and Glorifying God more, besides God's edifying the "Church" more thru greater gatherings, to accomplish more of God's Service to others thru us? In all Truth tho, by wanting to be seperate and meet elsewhere other than a "Church" building, you are thus setting yourselves apart from the "Body" for such gatherings. God has had me deal with quite a few groups who broke off from meeting in churches to meet elsewhere. One mens' group meeting in a school gym with American flags, ATV's etc surrounding them, complained they left thier Church because it became to female oriented, not "manly" anymore. I told them then, maybe they should get off thier lazy duffs and go to Church instead of wanting to spend so much time at leisure activities, then maybe it wouldn't be that way. Some people leave churches because they disagree with Doctrine taught. Fine. Search out another. Even tho it was Satan who influenced man to bring about "religions", now God uses the infinite variety of Churches- (not religions), to meet all the needs of the Body of christ. How? Praise and worship styles, ceremonial type Services to charismatic, old hymn styles to upbeat musical styles, Sermons written up and sent out to all churches, to unlimited total Holy spirit driven Services, plus a host more. Even types of Sermons taught, for what the "Body" of that particular church needs for spiritual food. And within every "main line" Religion, there are multiple subdivided ones, all varying slightly from the rest. Theres no reason to complain about churches gone to, when there are so many others to be visited and chosen from to be fed best by God as each person/couple needs. And maybe more people, instead of complaining about faults in churches, should work to change those faults. It could be... one day God will focus in on any of you complaining, to show you the faults you yourself have and maybe should quit complaining about others or thier Churches, until you get yourself right before God first. Remember, the "Church" of God- (Body), is made up of born in sin believers, who are carnal- (still battling our old sinful nature). So, no matter what Church building you go to for Services, there will be faults and shortcomings, because of this, and because you yourselves are falable born in sin believers too. Churches are a place to come, to praise and worship God, but also for help from God in healings, restorations, forgiveness, building up and edifying of the body by God, etc. There are way too many people more comfortable to sit back and complain, than to open themselves as a vessel to God, to help correct Churches as need be. Thats a main reason for the "gathering of the Saints", for God to help us grow in our relationship with him, to see the faults and shortcomings of Churches grow less and his Spirit working thru us more. (Where we are weak, God is stronger). If we allow it. God Bless!!

 

[Isabell]

There are so many different types of churches that if you keep looking, you will find one that feels right for you. After having a bad experience in a church, you will know what you do not want and that will make it easier to recognize what you do want. Keep up the search.