[quote name='pia;70853] Hi again Gumby........If you are a true believer' date=' then you are the church, along with other believers....The way the Lord explained it to me, was that if I was going to compare it to a 'church' building, then I am a brick in His church , as is every other believer.[/QUOTE'] According to Jesus, a true believer will receive His Spirit with the sign of speaking in tongues (and other signs at other times) - John 7:37-39, 14:12; Mark 16:15-20, just like all the true disciples (Jew and Gentile) did - Acts 2:4, 33-39; 10:44-48.[quote name='pia;70853]It's unfortunate the German word "kirshe' ( not 100% on spelling ) was applied to the Lord's church' date=' as what He called it, was " The called out ones ".[/QUOTE'] Yes, God doesn't dwell in temples made by men, he dwells in those people who have received His Spirit.The greek is ecclesia, called out and separated / hade Holy by having God's Holy Spirit within them.Otherwise known as the baptism in the Holy Spirit:by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit (1 Cor. 12:13)
Am I Wrong For Not Attending Church?
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I haven't read every post so I may be repeating what has been said. if that is the case, then it is reinforcing what has been said.Having completed a two years study of the church in the NT, which involved first of all looking at the scriptures in the original greek and then getting any book I could find on the subject, I came to the conclusion what we call church today is not in fact church.In the NT "the church" was known as "the way" originally and they were a branch of Judaism. They were not a seperate entity, so much of what they did reflected the religion of the Jews. There was no buildings as they met in homes (Acts 2); there was no clergy as they preached and acted out the priesthood of all believers who were all gifted in some area to build up the body of Christ; there was no paid pastor brought in from outside the church; leadership was by a plurality of elders chosen from within the congregation; they did not meet every Sunday morning as Sunday was an ordinary working day, they met occasionally as a church on Saturday which was the sabbath and the day of rest; there was no secular/sacred divide; they did not tithe, they gave as people had need bearing in mind that there were no buildings to finance or salaries to be paid.In essence the church was the people. Notice it said how much they loved one another, not what great meetings they had.Wherever they went they healed the sick, cast out demons and healed the brokenhearted. When they met in homes they fellowshipped together, were taught the apostle's doctrine, prayed together and shared meals. Breaking of bread in scripture means to eat a meal as no meal started until the host broke a loaf of bread and gave a piece to everyone. It was never a religious ritual. No metion here of them singing.The NT church never went to church because they were the church. You can't go to yourself. To "be" church all you need is two people and that can happen anywhere. Home, school, office, park, car park, street, cafe, beach, mountain, up a tree, the market, the bus stop, in the train. You notice it says that they went everywhere telling the good news of Jesus.Going to church in a purpose built place is a modern construct not to be found in scripture. Some people say you should not forsake the assembling together. If all you do is attend religious services in a building you are forsaking the assembling together because the context of that verse is meeting together in homes. if you don't do this, you are forsaking the assembling of yourself together even if you attend "church" on Sunday every week of the year. The two or three is more dynamic because the Christian walk is all about relationship. In most churches all you have relationship with is the back of other people's heads. In the home, you have a relationship with real people, face to face. In most churches you talk to half a dozen people and the rest are strangers to you. In the home you know everybody and you build a bond with each other. That is if you don't bring the ritual of the church into the home.My church is where I am. The truth is that religion and ritual in most cases will stop you from being the church. It prefers you to be a member of a specific organisation (denomination) to follow its traditions and ritual (membership) and spend your time being a promoter of it (works)In the meantime, God is holding out his hands to enfold you in his love and be a father to you. With a bit of luck you might talk to him once a week or five minutes each day. He wants more than that.I admit it might be a bit easier for me because I am retired, but I love to spend a whole afternoon on a sunny day sitting in the garden enjoying the birds and flowers, the trees, the sky, the sun and clouds rolling by and just having a one on one with the Lord. It keeps me young and excited. I only go to a "meeting" if it involves food. Why? Because that is what they did in scripture and the way to a man's heart is through his stomach. I guess God knew what he was doing.
Gumby..I know what you are thinking...been there done that..here's a link to a page on a site I got a lot of info from with questions I have ..it has a 5 min audio on "what is the true church. Find it on this page--->Know Your Biblehope this helps with you questions. Mary
Gregg, I am not sure what the point is of your last post but I hasten to add that a lot of muslims are having a supernatural encounter with Jesus in their...bedroom. He is appearing to them in person.
I get Greggs post its yours soulja boy I dont get ... Why would Jesus appear to those who think he but a servant of their Al-Mahdi .... those who's book says Qur'an 5:17"Verily they are disbelievers and infidels who say, 'The Messiah, son of Mary, is God. '"Qur'an 5:72"They are surely infidels who blaspheme and say: 'God is Christ, the Messiah, the son of Mary.' But the Messiah only said: 'O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.'" Further more they break the first commandment "Thou shall have no other Gods before me" They worship Allah who is not our god ... So please explain how it is you have this information and more important why it is you believe it ....
Exactly my question Martian know one could be in the presence of Christ without falling to your knees and becoming a Christ man i.e.Christain denouning any other belief.
Jesus will apear to whoever He chooses. and I did not find Jesus, He found me, and I wasnt even in church. My eldest son found Jesus is his bedroom, he very rarely went to church. Who do you think JEsus is that we limit Him to our ways. God made us we did not make Him. well at least it doesnt always seem that way. If Jesus chooses to show Himself to a muslim or a cannibal , who are we to question Him. We judge men by there outward appearance, God looks at the heart. But no , we know better then God, get mad at Him because He wont appear to us, get jealous and then expect Him to do it our way. Well He wont, never has , never will, just watch, God has a lot of suprises coming that will confound the most learned christian, because He is above our ways and above our thoughts.In His Love
I guess the only answer to that is that he is not willing that any would perish. Muslims don’t have a problem with Jesus, they don’t like Christianity. How can you have one and not the other. Apparently you can as your salvation is not through the church, it is through Christ alone as Martin Luther discovered. As God knows everything from before the foundation of the world, he knows those Muslims who are going to respond to the son of God.
Most definitely. There are books out there who record many conversions to Christianity by Muslims. Apart from the supernatural appearances of Jesus there are specific ways to approach the subject with Muslims according to Muslim experts. Don’t talk about the church or Christianity, talk about Jesus then they will listen.Brother Andrew (God's Smuggler) had the opportunity to share the good news of Jesus with the leader of Hamas and his extended family in the Gaza a few years ago, so they will listen.
I know the question was not directed to me Martin, but I am taking the liberty to put in my two cents. I have been studying church history for the last three years, starting with the NT church. That was followed by reading over 40 books on the subject. One thing that seems to be slowly and I emphasise slowly happening is that the church overall in western nations is dying. In places like Africa and Latin America it is growing. In the USA, only 1% of churches are growing. In the UK and Australia, the church is not growing. Some are mainly through transfer growth, not new converts.In the US, approximately 1 million christians a year are leaving organised religion and going back to a NT experience meeting in homes for prayer, food, teaching and fellowship. They are dumping the idea of pastor who is paid to lead them, preferring the priesthood of all believers model.I can see the time will come when signs and wonders will be part of this NT experience.I know that christianity is under seige in the US by atheists and secular humanists who are trying to wipe out all expression of christianity in the market place.This may be God allowing it to wake up the church from its slumber. Unless the church in western nations awakens from its slumber God will have to bring persecution to refine it. Those that are serious about their faith will stand firm, those that are not will fade into the woodwork.I love America and I love Americans. They have been a great nation who have been very giving in all sorts of ways to other nations. However, the time has come to raise up an army for the kingdom of God to slay the giants in the land. It begs the question "Is your church a holiday camp or an army barracks?"
Of course they dont have a problem with Jesus they belief he is a slave to their god I suggest you read their opinion of Jesus and us .... .Qur'an 4:171"O People of the Book! Do not exaggerate in your religion; nor speak lies of Allah. The Messiah, Christ Jesus, the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not 'Trinity.' Cease and Desist: (it is) better for you: for Allah is one Ilah (God). (Far it is removed from him of) having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. The Messiah is proud to be a slave of Allah, as are the angels, those nearest. Those who disdain His worship and are arrogant. Dont be fooled its a false religion and their god is not our god ...And I must admit I do not see how one can think its OK for them to hate Christians which in itself means a follower of Christ yet think they somehow respect your God??How does a christian separate himself from Christ ???? That was my question, not how we can seperate from a church. http://www.prophetofdoom.net/quotes.aspx?g=405&i=4528 Don't get me wrong if they want to convert that is blessed thing but I have met so many Christians that think that we worship the same God and Islam is acceptable to God ....It is not .... Nor is their idea of Christ something good they speak blaspheme about him ....
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