Amillennialism and The Occult

[Davy]

If you are not up to speed on what man's doctrine of Amillennialism is about, then I recommend reading the following link: What is amillennialism? | GotQuestions.org

The doctrine of Amillennialism believes the Revelation 20 "thousand years" reign by Christ and His elect is metaphorical, and not about a literal time period. They instead treat it as the time for the Church age, like from Christ's death and resurrection until His future return. That means they believe since Jesus died on the cross and rose, that His Kingdom right then was commenced on earth.

They see the "thousand years" number as just a spiritual number which has no specific literal span of time, which is related to the idea which the Jews used in their Kabbalah and Gematria numerical systems of mysticism applied to Bible Scripture (very similar to the Bible Codes ideas).

In John 18:36, Lord Jesus said His Kingdom is NOT of this world, meaning of this present world time. His 'spiritual' kingdom began at His death and resurrection, but not His LITERAL KINGDOM TO COME.

Yet many Amillennialists believe we are in Christ's Kingdom NOW, with some even thinking that ALL peoples of this present world time will eventually convert to Jesus Christ! They believe it is their job in Christ to help Jesus create His Literal Kingdom here and now during this present world time. That is why they apply some of the events of Revelation 20 backwards, as if they apply now during the time of the Church age.

Those who have studied The Word of God should see a major problem with that thinking, because God's Word reveals this present world is preserved unto destruction by fire, and that the end of this world is going to be ruled by evil men and a specific coming Antichrist who is to show up in Jerusalem at the very end, and persecute Christ's saints. And the whole world is to worship him, excepting Christ's elect (Revelation 11; Revelation 13; 2 Peter 3:10; Daniel 2; Daniel 7, 8, 9, 10, 12; Matthew 24:15-26; 2 Thessalonians 2).

I admit, by the time of the 2nd century A.D., with The Gospel being preached particularly in Asia Minor and Europe, and many accepting Christ Jesus there with miraculous growth of Christ's Church, that many began to think that Jesus' literal Kingdom had come then, and would takeover the whole world in time. But there has... to be some amount of 'independent' thought about that idea originating from sources outside Bible Scripture. Reason I say that is because God's Word does not teach this PRESENT world could ever become the Kingdom of Christ Jesus. Instead, God's Word reveals that this present world is given to the devil to rule over, but with God protecting His that He preserves.

Just what sources might that 'independent' thinking be, of believing this present world today is Christ's Kingdom having come already (even without Jesus having returned yet), and that it is our job to make it happen FOR THIS PRESENT WORLD TIME?

Might that involve Satan's host who plan to establish a one-world kingdom for the dragon to come and rule over? Believe it or not, that... is actually what is prophesied for the end of this world per Christ's Book of Revelation (Revelation 13). Who would be working for that goal during this present world? Satan's occult hierarchy. There, the cat's out of the bag.

For over 22 centuries, the occult secret societies of today have claimed their origins from the old "mysteries" (they call it). In ancient Egypt there were so-called 'mystery schools' run by the Egyptian priesthood. To become a student under their system one had to petition for training as an initiate neophyte. The priest's teachings involved the esoteric mysteries hidden from the general populace, and contained secret formulas, sciences, studies of nature and mathematics, things which for ancient peoples seemed like miracles, but for today's time are taught in most of the universities. The priests controlled this system of knowledge, and one had to be initiated into their 'mysteries' in order to have access. And it also involved an ancient occult philosophy. Much of this ancient knowledge was housed in the library at Alexandria, Egypt which burned down.

More About Their 'Mysteries':
Their 'mysteries' did not only involve natural science, but also OCCULT SCIENCE. What's that? Basically, Esoterica, hidden knowledge. That's getting into the realm of 'magic', ceremonial or ritual magic, conjuring up demons, conversing with spirits, seeking to enter into the underworld (what some would call 'astral projection' today), association, sorcery, witchcraft, diviners, necromancy, etc. Those kind of things God told His people to not do, and under the old covenant anyone found doing them was to be put away (Exodus 22:18; Deuteronomy 18:9-13).

Sorry to say, those things are still going on today among the secret societies of initiation that practice the occult, and no doubt have increased, since the Christian Church no longer penalizes those caught practicing those things. Thus you won't find very many of them being exposed, which reveals how deeply rooted in secret their systems are in today's society over all the world.

The doctrine of Amillennialism is thus A PERFECT VEHICLE for the Occult secret societies plans for a "one world government" in preparation for Lucifer to come and rule over the world in person, their king, and their 'rock' which they worship.


Therefore, God's Word is giving us a whole lot of information in a general sense about these events for the end of this world. And many brethren are almost completely ignorant of today's OCCULT SECRET SOCIETY working in order to bring CHRIST'S KINGDOM. That's the next subject on this matter coming...

(Continued...)

 

[Davy]

(Continued from post #1)

How could the OCCULTISTS be part of today's plan for establishing Christ's Kingdom FOR THIS PRESENT WORLD?

It's important to understand these Occultists are not about hippies that visit the local New Age bookstore in your city. These Occultists hide, and come from every walk in life. They are businessmen, lawyers, doctors, engineers, mechanics, taxi drivers, construction workers, teachers, musicians, every walk in life, having been initiated into the so-called 'mysteries' via a number of active initiate fraternities.

I recall years ago, one of the president heads of the Proctor & Gamble company was discovered to be a Satanist of the Church of Satan. So a group of Christians got together and promoted a boycott on Proctor & Gamble products. That president said no matter, that there were not enough real Christians left in the world to matter if they boycotted their products.

At one time there were at least 12 initiate fraternities that met in Europe in France. The organization was abbreviated F.U.D.O.S.I., and stood for something like Universal Federation of Initiate Orders.
(One of them: The Traditional Martinist Order)

Many members in these various initiate orders are Christians. Let me say that again...
Many initiate members in these various fraternities of the Occult are professed Christians.

Some of these initiate orders require one to be a Christian in order to join. (What better way to attack Christianity than to deceive these members first, and then spread it at their local Church.)

Likewise, many of those Occult member initiates are from various religious faiths of the world. Do I need to say that again too? The Occult idea is to promote the brotherhood of mankind, much like those in Christ Jesus do. In many ways the Occult doctrines parallel Christian doctrine from The Bible, and by that I mean they 'add' just a little twist of Satan's lies to Christian doctrine. Amillennialism, which denies the literal events of Revelation 20, and believes Christ's Kingdom is already now, is one such idea taken from Christian doctrine but with added twists that is not written anywhere in God's Word.

Though the majority of their lower members have no clue as to what the higher members or leaders in those Occult fraternities are up to, it's the lower membership that usually financially supports the higher group. The lower members are initiated into the "Lesser Mysteries", and the higher controlling members are in the "Greater Mysteries" and represent the truly 'hidden structure' of the Occult orders, those higher members involved in taking control of the whole world.

What this means is, that there are actually CHRISTIANS in those fraternities involved in working towards Satan's coming "one world government" system and they don't even know it! Some of those Occult fraternities are more philosophical and social than others, so many Christians in them see them as mere social clubs and are not thinking of things like taking over the world, or preparing the world for Lucifer to come and reign on earth. But with the higher members that's a different story.

Why would Christians work towards their goals of a one-world beast kingdom? That's the gist of it, they don't know that the coming one-world kingdom for the end of this world will NOT be Christ's Kingdom, but Lucifer's kingdom, because Lucifer comes FIRST, and he plans to play GOD (as written). This is why Apostle Paul warned us in 2 Thessalonians 2 that that "man of sin" (Lucifer) is coming to Jerusalem to sit in the "temple of God" (a future 3rd temple to be built by the orthodox Jews in our time), and proclaim himself as God, over all that is 'called' God, or that is worshiped. That is to happen first prior to our Lord Jesus Christ's future return on the "last trump".

Thus the events prophesied in Revelation 13 about the coming ten horn, seven head, ten crown beast kingdom to be ruled by the "dragon" (Lucifer) over all peoples and nations, is truly a reality in the process right now. And it has been going on ever since Lucifer's establishing of the 'mystery schools' of ancient Babylon. A view of secret meetings at places like Bohemian Grove reveals how top businessmen, elected officials like U.S. presidents and senators, etc., are involved.

This is not something to worry about. The Occult groups actually slip up and expose themselves at times; they can't help it as they are so enamored with self-pride and arrogance with themselves. This happens so those in Christ will know that what The LORD has shown us in His Word is actually coming to pass, and to not be deceived.

 

[Always Believing]

What is amillennialism? | GotQuestions.org

They see the "thousand years" number as just a spiritual number which has no specific literal span of time, which is related to the idea which the Jews used in their Kabbalah and Gematria numerical systems of mysticism applied to Bible Scripture (very similar to the Bible Codes ideas).

One thing is for sure about amils. They symbolize any and all Scripture, that does not fit their own ideas. They provide volume upon volume just to convince the normal reader of the Bible, that what the Bible plainly says is true, is rarely literal.

I've heard their great reams of scholarship as being called their own bible of symbols, like some National Treasure Declaration of Independence.

I have also recently happened upon an argument showing how Jesus' time on the cross, is intertwined with His physical time of reigning on earth. If either is made only symbolic, then so must the other.

What I am saying, is the doctrine of amillennialism must also teach the doctrine of Jesus Christ not physically dying on the cross, but only in spiritual symbolism. That then leads straight to Jesus Christ never came in the flesh as a real man born of a woman.

Yet many Amillennialists believe we are in Christ's Kingdom NOW, with some even thinking that ALL peoples of this present world time will eventually convert to Jesus Christ! They believe it is their job in Christ to help Jesus create His Literal Kingdom here and now during this present world time.

Which is exactly what the Catholic church militant did during European Christendom, and was the driving force for inquisitions. And the kind of spirit I see in amil dogma is a complete lack of regard for all the men, women, children, and babes they are itching to see wiped out by fire from heaven. In this regard, they certainly fall under the category of being rebuked like John wanting their 'Christ' to destroy others. (Luke 9)

Those who have studied The Word of God should see a major problem with that thinking, because God's Word reveals this present world is preserved unto destruction by fire, and that the end of this world is going to be ruled by evil men and a specific coming Antichrist who is to show up in Jerusalem at the very end, and persecute Christ's saints. And the whole world is to worship him, excepting Christ's elect (Revelation 11; Revelation 13; 2 Peter 3:10; Daniel 2; Daniel 7, 8, 9, 10, 12; Matthew 24:15-26; 2 Thessalonians 2).

And so, you are saying that if Jesus Christ is indeed reigning and ruling over all nations now, and not just spiritually over His elect, then how can the whole world still lie in wickedness? Good point.

One of their accusations against Christ's physical reign on earth, is that they call it a weak Christ who cannot control the world, and is even overthrown in the end by Gog and Magog. And yet, here you point out they have absolutely no problem in believing the all powerful Christ is now reigning over a whole world of wickedness, and will be defied by an antichrist that has all the world worshipping him as God.

Very good point.

Might that involve Satan's host who plan to establish a one-world kingdom for the dragon to come and rule over? Believe it or not, that... is actually what is prophesied for the end of this world per Christ's Book of Revelation (Revelation 13). Who would be working for that goal during this present world? Satan's occult hierarchy. There, the cat's out of the bag.

Now this is good. I've been seeing how the amils prophecy of the Lord's return, fits exactly with the last great antichrist and false prophet. Their prophecy is looking for:

Christ to come again on earth, which will be true from the air.
At that time, fire will come down from heaven to destroy all 'His' enemies, and they will get to watch it.

Along with your added revelation of them now looking to establish His kingdom physically on earth 'by force', they are indeed prime meat set up to receive the last great false christ on earth, who will indeed make fire come down from evil in sight of men to destroy his enemies.

For over 22 centuries, the occult secret societies of today have claimed their origins from the old "mysteries" (they call it).

Sounds like Catholic Sacred Traditions not found in the Bible.

In ancient Egypt there were so-called 'mystery schools' run by the Egyptian priesthood.

Do they call on the 'Dead Sea Scrolls' for support?

To become a student under their system one had to petition for training as an initiate neophyte. The priest's teachings involved the esoteric mysteries hidden from the general populace, and contained secret formulas, sciences, studies of nature and mathematics, things which for ancient peoples seemed like miracles, but for today's time are taught in most of the universities.

As in Eleusinian Mysteries.

The priests controlled this system of knowledge, and one had to be initiated into their 'mysteries' in order to have access.

As in Catholic dominion over the laity with Latin.

Their 'mysteries' did not only involve natural science, but also OCCULT SCIENCE. What's that? Basically, Esoterica, hidden knowledge. That's getting into the realm of 'magic', ceremonial or ritual magic, conjuring up demons, conversing with spirits, seeking to enter into the underworld (what some would call 'astral projection' today), association, sorcery, witchcraft, diviners, necromancy, etc.

I don't know about all that, but they certainly do look forward to seeing fire made to come down from heaven in their sight.

The doctrine of Amillennialism is thus A PERFECT VEHICLE for the Occult secret societies plans for a "one world government" in preparation for Lucifer to come and rule over the world in person, their king, and their 'rock' which they worship.

Well, if your saying many amils are useful idiots, then so be it. One thing I do know. When we start making mysterious symbolism out of plain words of Scripture, then we definitely leave solid ground. And when we do so with reams and volumes of pseudo-scholarship, as Paul calls science falsely-so-called, then we get our heads filled with vain knowledge and empty spiritualism.

The devil is afterall the prince and power of the air.

Thanks much.

 

[Davy]

What is amillennialism? | GotQuestions.org


One thing is for sure about amils. They symbolize any and all Scripture, that does not fit their own ideas. They provide volume upon volume just to convince the normal reader of the Bible, that what the Bible plainly says is true, is rarely literal.

I've heard their great reams of scholarship as being called their own bible of symbols, like some National Treasure Declaration of Independence.

The reason for all that is no doubt because of the movement of Gnosticism that began at that same time in the 2nd century A.D. when the Amill doctrine first began. All the 1st century Church held to the idea of a literal "thousand years" reign by Christ and His elect, as written.

I have also recently happened upon an argument showing how Jesus' time on the cross, is intertwined with His physical time of reigning on earth. If either is made only symbolic, then so must the other.

What I am saying, is the doctrine of amillennialism must also teach the doctrine of Jesus Christ not physically dying on the cross, but only in spiritual symbolism. That then leads straight to Jesus Christ never came in the flesh as a real man born of a woman.

The idea that Lord Jesus did not actually die on the cross, but that His disciples took Him down before, is a doctrine of Gnosticism. The Gnostics also believe the falsehood that Jesus married Mary Magdalen and they had children. The devil's working in all that should be obvious to any true Christian.

Which is exactly what the Catholic church militant did during European Christendom, and was the driving force for inquisitions. And the kind of spirit I see in amil dogma is a complete lack of regard for all the men, women, children, and babes they are itching to see wiped out by fire from heaven. In this regard, they certainly fall under the category of being rebuked like John wanting their 'Christ' to destroy others. (Luke 9)

Many of the Protestant Reformation also believed that Christ's Kingdom was then being established upon earth. One can attend one of those type of Protestant Churches today and still hear that belief.

That 'wipe out' mentality fits the times of the early European Churches, especially the early Catholic Church, don't you think? Martin Luther had strong hatred of the Jews that would not convert to Christ, and I think that hatred then by many was simply because of the hard times back then, lot of primordial ignorance going on back then. I still see that hatred with some today, when I try to explain what Apostle Paul showed in Romans 11 about God having spiritually blinded the orthodox Jews so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles, but that when the fulness of the Gentiles comes in, He will remove their blindness, and those unbelieving Jews will be saved in Christ. Those don't want to hear it, as they'd rather the unbelieving Jews would just perish.

And so, you are saying that if Jesus Christ is indeed reigning and ruling over all nations now, and not just spiritually over His elect, then how can the whole world still lie in wickedness? Good point.

Pretty obvious I think. Not only that, but where's our 'crown' Jesus promised us? Why hasn't He gathered us yet, to be where He is, per His promises in John 14? There's so many Scriptures that Amill just dumps, that any serious Bible student ought to know right off the bat that Amill is simply a doctrine of devils.

One of their accusations against Christ's physical reign on earth, is that they call it a weak Christ who cannot control the world, and is even overthrown in the end by Gog and Magog. And yet, here you point out they have absolutely no problem in believing the all powerful Christ is now reigning over a whole world of wickedness, and will be defied by an antichrist that has all the world worshipping him as God.

Very good point.

Yep, the Amill doctrine has many blasphemies direct against Bible Scripture.

Now this is good. I've been seeing how the amils prophecy of the Lord's return, fits exactly with the last great antichrist and false prophet. Their prophecy is looking for:

Christ to come again on earth, which will be true from the air.
At that time, fire will come down from heaven to destroy all 'His' enemies, and they will get to watch it.

Along with your added revelation of them now looking to establish His kingdom physically on earth 'by force', they are indeed prime meat set up to receive the last great false christ on earth, who will indeed make fire come down from evil in sight of men to destroy his enemies.

Yep, the last movie showing of 'Jesus Christ Superstar', except this next time it won't be Lord Jesus in the lead, but instead the coming pseudo-Christ.

Sounds like Catholic Sacred Traditions not found in the Bible.

Secret societies like the Masons and Rosicrucians claim their origins from the ancient 'mystery schools' of Egypt, Greece, etc. In a certain political document (which I will not mention here), they claimed they've been working on this final world government idea for over 22 centuries. They strongly use Egyptian symbology and Solomon's temple symbology. You see, the main builders that helped build the city of David and Solomon's temple were pagan Sidonians from Tyre. David was friends with Hiram, king of Tyre, and they traded workers, because the children of Israel didn't have the skills needed to build, but the Sidonians did. Same with Solomon to build the 1st temple. The Masons also claim their beginnings in Europe with the stone masons that built the great European structures. The mystery of this is as old as the workers of Cain in Genesis 4.

Do they call on the 'Dead Sea Scrolls' for support?

Yes. The Dead Sea Scrolls include writings by the sect called the Essenes. The Jewish historian Josephus wrote about them. They were ascetics that lived in the desert. Some historians believe John the Baptist was one of the Essenes. Some of the secret societies try to claim the Essenes were a branch of the Greek Therapeutae, a group of healers known for their charity work, like the Essenes. Those secret societies of the 'mysteries' try to claim they are descended from them.

As in Eleusinian Mysteries.

Yes, all part of the system of the "mystery schools" of ancient paganism. Many P. Hall wrote an encyclopedia called The Secret Teachings of All Ages, which I don't recommend buying, but you could probably go to a local New Age bookstore and look through it. It contains a lot of that history about the "mysteries". So think about what Lord Jesus said to His Apostles in Matthew 13, that it was given for them to know the "mysteries of the kingdom of heaven", and contrast that with those pagan "mysteries" from the devil.

As in Catholic dominion over the laity with Latin.

Probably where they got their idea of a priesthood still being required. The repetitious prayer beads are actually an ancient pagan tradition from Buddhism.

Well, if your saying many amils are useful idiots, then so be it. One thing I do know. When we start making mysterious symbolism out of plain words of Scripture, then we definitely leave solid ground. And when we do so with reams and volumes of pseudo-scholarship, as Paul calls science falsely-so-called, then we get our heads filled with vain knowledge and empty spiritualism.

The devil is afterall the prince and power of the air.

Thanks much.

Yes, but it all started in God's Garden of Eden when that old serpent told Eve that she could be like God, knowing good and evil. That is what all this is actually about. And here we are today, very, very close to the end of this world with Jesus getting ready to return, and God is going do a bunch of pruning with allowing Satan to come to earth in plain sight playing The Christ.

 

[Always Believing]

The reason for all that is no doubt because of the movement of Gnosticism that began at that same time in the 2nd century A.D. when the Amill doctrine first began.

Seriously? That's when it began? Because I've been telling them their manner is gnostic. All they really love is their own pride of pseudo scholarship, with not spiritual blessing and truth in it whatsoever. It's the same as the JW's. That's why they rarely just talk normal to people, without copy-pasting all their volumes of 'knowledge'.

The idea that Lord Jesus did not actually die on the cross, but that His disciples took Him down before, is a doctrine of Gnosticism. The Gnostics also believe the falsehood that Jesus married Mary Magdalen and they had children.

So, the Davinci Code is true.

That 'wipe out' mentality fits the times of the early European Churches, especially the early Catholic Church, don't you think?

Yes, it was a mixture of OT extermination, church militant evangelism, and power of nations.

Pretty obvious I think. Not only that, but where's our 'crown' Jesus promised us? Why hasn't He gathered us yet, to be where He is, per His promises in John 14?

They do teach the resurrection of the saints, but leap frog it to the last resurrection only.

Yes. The Dead Sea Scrolls include writings by the sect called the Essenes. The Jewish historian Josephus wrote about them. They were ascetics that lived in the desert.

Paul may have referred to them in will worship and purposed neglect of the body to no profit. They take the spiritual to be literal, when Jesus says blessed are them that hunger and thirst.

Some of the secret societies try to claim the Essenes were a branch of the Greek Therapeutae, a group of healers known for their charity work, like the Essenes.

Apollonius of Tyana being the most famous. He was trumpeted as a christ of the Greeks and Romans.

Yes, all part of the system of the "mystery schools" of ancient paganism. Many P. Hall wrote an encyclopedia called The Secret Teachings of All Ages, which I don't recommend buying

I used to practise deciphering their departure from Scripture, but it gets tiring after a while. You begin to notice a circular manner of their pseudo-truths.

Yes, but it all started in God's Garden of Eden when that old serpent told Eve that she could be like God, knowing good and evil. That is what all this is actually about.

Now, this is very true. It isn't just about being able to sin against God and still live on forever as gods in our own right. But actually it is about men making their own word to be as authoritative as God's Word.

And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

All cults have their great leaders, whose words are at first equal to God's words, and then in the 'last days' of their cult, their leader's words are raised above what it written in Scripture.

There are some on this site you go on and on about their teachings, and eventually they directly contradict what is written, without even batting an eye, nor retracting it.

And here we are today, very, very close to the end of this world with Jesus getting ready to return, and God is going do a bunch of pruning with allowing Satan to come to earth in plain sight playing The Christ.

That is well put about being in plain sight on earth, including making fire come down from heaven.

But I would say He enters into the last antichrist, who does not then go off and hang himself like Judas.

And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Perhaps it is Satan falling as fire from heaven at will. He allows himself to be called down from heaven in sight of men by the false prophet.

 

[Davy]

Seriously? That's when it began? Because I've been telling them their manner is gnostic. All they really love is their own pride of pseudo scholarship, with not spiritual blessing and truth in it whatsoever. It's the same as the JW's. That's why they rarely just talk normal to people, without copy-pasting all their volumes of 'knowledge'.

Yes, the doctrine of Amillennialism began in the 2nd century A.D. It was not a doctrine of the 1st century Church fathers. It's important to remember that false ones began creeping into the early Church even starting in the days of Apostle Paul, and Paul even warned the brethren how it would get worse...

Acts 20:27-31
27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which He hath purchased with His own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
KJV

So, the Davinci Code is true.

Yes. At the very end of the movie is especially when they revealed Gnostic falsehoods like from Holy Blood, Holy Grail. Tom Hanks at the end of the movie starts talking about the offspring of Jesus having the same supernatural powers He had, etc. That was a major Gnostic idea of the 2nd century, that Jesus didn't die on the cross, and married and had children.

Here is their main philosophy, and one will find it wrapped up in many different wrappers (esoteric historical cultures and lands), but it's still all from the same source. They believe that we all inherently have access to a 'psychic' or 'cosmic' force that if we attune to, it will give us powers over nature, supernatural powers even. This what the ancient "mysteries" of Egypt, Greece, Babylon, etc., was about. Notice when Moses appeared before Pharaoh and Pharoah's priests threw down their staffs and they turned into serpents, Moses threw his staff down and it turned into a serpent, and ate up all the other serpents. By what supernatural power were Pharaoh's priests able to do that? That is one Biblical proof that the occult esoterica is real, and not simply Hollywood movie myth.

When king Saul in Old Testament times prayed and God would not longer speak to him because of his rebellion, king Saul went to the witch of Endor, and had the spirit of the prophet Samuel conjured up. A spirit that looked like Samuel appeared, but it was no doubt a 'familiar spirit' the witch had. Yet that evil spirit did tell king Saul the truth of his situation between him and God. These kind of events are real, not fiction.

Those behind the Gnostics belong to the occult side of history, i.e., the children of darkness, Satan's servants here on earth. Satan desires to be God, and be worshiped as God, so he tries to copy everything that is of God and claim it as his. The secret societies tell their new initiates that it's not an accident that they petition for membership, that they actually are God's true elect (Satan adopting Christ's ideas). Some of those societies try to mask what they are teaching involving the ancient "mystery schools" with new labels like the "mysteries of life". They claim to have possession of certain ancient secrets about ourselves and the creation that will make one an adept with ability to control even nature, comparable to what Lord Jesus did with stopping storms, etc. It's where all the wizards ideas in pop movies comes from, even in Disney cartoons (yes Walt Disney was a member of an occult secret society).

They believe that we each are originally born with the ability of great psychic power as an infant, but that it is soon lost by the fears and limitations of this world. So they present a way to get that back, through mystical exercises and practices. They get into all the various mysteries of the ancients, like chanting mantras per ancient Buddhism, certain breathing exercises used in eastern religion, ancient knowledge the ancients used in hiding the understanding and use of certain natural and psychic laws that the priests kept among themselves. What they basically point to, is a system of using 'supernatural' laws of the spirit realm, and attempting to use that knowledge here in the material earthly dimension to become... your very own Christ.

They teach that Lord Jesus was one of 'them', and one of the greatest Adepts. They have this idea that every 2,000 years or so, a new Avatar is sent to advance the understanding and evolution of mankind. So when you hear the baloney idea that the missing 18 years of Lord Jesus' early life was about His travel to eastern lands, Egypt, Greece, etc., to receive initiation, that idea is from their esoteric baloney designed to deceive the illiterate. They start early with this kind of propaganda upon young children using the media in hopes of preparing them to accept the occult-fantasy world.

What it really all boils down to, is Satan's deception against Eve in God's Garden, telling us that we can become our own 'god'. That is what they are pushing. Saying that Jesus was one of them, and that He did not actually die on the cross, is just a vain attempt to deny Him as GOD The Son come in the flesh. And instead, it is an attempt to show that we each can become our own 'Christ'. They even have a type of higher initiation about going it alone, developing one's own philosophy and becoming independent from all things, including God.

But not to worry, Jesus gave His power over all the enemy (Luke 10). At any time we feel Satan's presence or one of his demons trying to influence us, we are to cast them back to the pit in the name of Jesus Christ. And they have to... go.

And just think of all the deceived folks out there that don't have spiritual protection by our Heavenly Father, His Son, and The Holy Spirit because they still reject Jesus Christ. Those are subjected to the dark workings by the children of darkness during this world unless they believe in The Father and His Son.

 

[Davy]

That is well put about being in plain sight on earth, including making fire come down from heaven.

But I would say He enters into the last antichrist, who does not then go off and hang himself like Judas.

And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Perhaps it is Satan falling as fire from heaven at will. He allows himself to be called down from heaven in sight of men by the false prophet.

The point about the coming Antichrist that I grasp from Bible Scripture is this...

Satan himself, in OUR earthly dimension, will be the Antichrist for the end, not Satan possession of some flesh antichrist.

So... many brethren continually think with their fleshy mind, as if there is only one dimension of existence, this earthly one. Yet God's Word reveals the existence to 2 different dimensions of existence, this earthly one we live in, and the Heavenly one where God and the angels live, including where Satan's abode of hell is.

Some men also have the false idea, because of their fleshy mind, that an angel must put on a human body in order to appear on earth in our presence. No where does God's Word teach such an idea. Instead, God's Word reveals that the angelic body, a spirit body, can appear here on earth in our earthly dimension, just as they appear in the heavenly, with the image of man.

I don't understand how brethren could get confused about the heavenly image of man, since God revealed in Genesis 1:26-27 the image of man originates from His Own Image and Likeness in the Heavenly dimension.

The children of Israel in the wilderness could eat angel's food (manna from Heaven), and the angels with Jesus in Genesis 18, and the two angels that went to Lot in Genesis 19, all ate man's food while in their angelic spirit type bodies. Paul even taught in Hebrews 13 for us to be hospitable to strangers, because some have entertained angels and didn't know it. Even Genesis 2 reveals that God's Abode at one time was upon this earth, meaning in the earthly dimension. And Revelation and Ezekiel 40-48 reveals His future return to this earth to live with us in the new heavens and a new earth. That future world will be about all in a "spiritual body" that Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15.

Thus the Biblical examples reveals that Satan himself, who has an angelic spirit body, can also appear here on earth, in OUR earthly dimension. And Jesus revealed that Satan is coming for the end of this world. That is what the Rev.12:7-9 verses are about when he is booted out of the Heavenly dimension with his angels. There's only one other place they can go, and it is to OUR earthly dimension. Could this possibly be the deception of what Satan's controllers today over the earth are working with conditioning the masses of peoples today about UFOs and UAPs? I think so.

 

[Always Believing]

Yes, the doctrine of Amillennialism began in the 2nd century A.D. It was not a doctrine of the 1st century Church fathers. It's important to remember that false ones began creeping into the early Church even starting in the days of Apostle Paul, and Paul even warned the brethren how it would get worse...

Acts 20:27-31
27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which He hath purchased with His own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
KJV


They believe that we all inherently have access to a 'psychic' or 'cosmic' force that if we attune to, it will give us powers over nature, supernatural powers even.

They are now teaching elsewhere on this site, that the first resurrection is that of Christ's resurrected body, and they are already having poart in it themselves, and they are ruling with Him in heaven and on earth.

They are literally teaching they are as gods with God in heaven and with power of God on earth. It's exactly what the serpent promised in the garden, and that is exactly what you are describing in their own imaginary psychic, cosmic, supernatural force and powers.

I dared a couple of them to go to someone's doorstep and declare how they are with the resurrection of Christ and exercise His authority, rule, and power now in heaven and on earth. I tell them not to dare the one at home to shoot them instead of submit to their rule.

Some of those societies try to mask what they are teaching involving the ancient "mystery schools" with new labels like the "mysteries of life".

It's true that cults hide their innermost secrets, until the new ones 'get in' far enough to reveal them, and not run them off.

your very own Christ.

Martial arts seek the same 'spiritual' supernatural powers of the mind and body. Their inner 'chi'.

So when you hear the baloney idea that the missing 18 years of Lord Jesus' early life was about His travel to eastern lands, Egypt, Greece, etc., to receive initiation,

Those years were spent simply succeeding in business to have honor among men. No self-respecting Jew nor adult today is going to follow after some guru that has never succeeded in anything in life.

God doesn't call anyone into His ministry before being successful in life enough to retire.

What it really all boils down to, is Satan's deception against Eve in God's Garden, telling us that we can become our own 'god'.

As shown above, their doctrine teaches being as gods in heaven and on earth, with power to exercise authority over others on earth.

They even have a type of higher initiation about going it alone, developing one's own philosophy and becoming independent from all things, including God.

Especially independent of His written word.

 

[Always Believing]

So... many brethren continually think with their fleshy mind, as if there is only one dimension of existence, this earthly one. Yet God's Word reveals the existence to 2 different dimensions of existence, this earthly one we live in, and the Heavenly one where God and the angels live, including where Satan's abode of hell is.

Satan isn't in hell at this time. His rebellious angels are held there reserved for judgment.

Hell is in the heart of the earth.

Some men also have the false idea, because of their fleshy mind, that an angel must put on a human body in order to appear on earth in our presence.

Not true. He appears as an angel of light.

No where does God's Word teach such an idea. Instead, God's Word reveals that the angelic body, a spirit body, can appear here on earth in our earthly dimension, just as they appear in the heavenly, with the image of man.

Angels are not created in the image of man, which is his mortal body.

Angels are created with spiritual bodies only. The description of Lucifer is nothing like that of a man in the flesh. (Ezek 28)

Man is created a little lower than the angels, by being housed in natural bodies.

I don't understand how brethren could get confused about the heavenly image of man, since God revealed in Genesis 1:26-27 the image of man originates from His Own Image and Likeness in the Heavenly dimension.

Man created in God's image is spiritual .of the soul only, not the natural body. God didn't have natural body, until the Word was made flesh in the likeness and image of man on earth

The children of Israel in the wilderness could eat angel's food (manna from Heaven), and the angels with Jesus in Genesis 18, and the two angels that went to Lot in Genesis 19, all ate man's food while in their angelic spirit type bodies.

While temporarily manifested in bodies like men. They were not men nor did they have bodies of flesh born of women.

Even Genesis 2 reveals that God's Abode at one time was upon this earth, meaning in the earthly dimension.

That's a wild leap. He was in the garden and spoke with man in the garden, but all we hear of is the voice of the Lord speaking with Adam and calling for them both.

God was not yet living on earth as a man, until Jesus.

And Revelation and Ezekiel 40-48 reveals His future return to this earth to live with us in the new heavens and a new earth. That future world will be about all in a "spiritual body" that Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15.

No. There will still be saved nations entering into the city through the gates, and unsaved forbidden entrance, except they repent.

Thus the Biblical examples reveals that Satan himself, who has an angelic spirit body, can also appear here on earth, in OUR earthly dimension.

He could appear as a man, if God allowed it, even to mate with the daughters of men.

Could this possibly be the deception of what Satan's controllers today over the earth are working with conditioning the masses of peoples today about UFOs and UAPs? I think so.

I don't put much stock in such entertainment things. The last great AC will be inhabited by Satan, like Judas, but will still just be a man of flesh and blood.

Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

he will be given powers by Satan to deceive with the mouth and with fire from heaven, but he will still just be a man that bleeds like anyone else.

 

[Davy]

Satan isn't in hell at this time. His rebellious angels are held there reserved for judgment.

Hell is in the heart of the earth.

Now with things we apparently disagree on.

The abode of the wicked called "hell", rendered in the NT Greek as 'haides', about the Greek idea Hades of the underworld, that is in the heavenly dimension, but in a place of separation in Paradise across a great gulf fixed per Jesus in Luke 16. Apostle Peter proclaimed a deeper level in it for the angels that rebelled in Genesis 6, the place called 'tartaroo'. It is in the heavenly dimension also. The idea of hell being in the heart of the earth is a 'symbolic' representation only. And Satan today is still free to go back and forth up and down the earth and still appear in Heaven before God's throne (see Job 1 & 2). Thing is though, Satan is not visible to us when upon this earth, but once Rev.12:8 happens, he will be visible upon this earth, in OUR earthy dimension.

The Revelation 12:7-8 Scripture reveals when Satan and his angels are cast down to earth in our near future (for the coming trib), at that time their place will no more be found 'in heaven'. We know that was not about the time of Satan's original fall, but it says at that event of casting out in Rev.12 Satan will then no longer be allows to appear before God's throne to accuse us. And in Job 1 & 2 Satan is shown appearing before God's throne to accuse Job, revealing he had already rebelled against God and had fallen, yet still allowed to appear before God's throne. So that difference makes this Rev.12:8 to be about Satan's future casting out of the heavenly dimension with his angels, down to our earth in OUR earthly dimension.

Not true. He appears as an angel of light.

Angels are not created in the image of man, which is his mortal body.

Angels are created with spiritual bodies only. The description of Lucifer is nothing like that of a man in the flesh. (Ezek 28)

Man is created a little lower than the angels, by being housed in natural bodies.

Those are ideas not written in God's Word, but come from old Jewish traditions. Very few Jews I have found understand about the two separate dimensions of existence, the earthly vs. the heavenly. Some Jews even believe a false idea like God's Heaven is simply in the sky atmosphere around the earth; not true, because the sky atmosphere around the earth is part of this 'earthly dimension' of material matter, not the Heavenly dimension which is not made of material matter.

In the very first Chapter of God's Word, in Genesis 1:26-27, we are shown God creating man in His Image Likeness. That means the image of 'man' does not originate with the flesh creation of man. That image of man originates from God's Own Image Likeness, and that of the angels in Heaven. This is why even the angels, when appearing on earth, appear with that image of man. Now the Jews have a difficult time understanding this, but this is per God's written Word, not something I'm making up.

Gen 1:26-27
26 And God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
27 So God created man in His Own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.
KJV

Man created in God's image is spiritual .of the soul only, not the natural body. God didn't have natural body, until the Word was made flesh in the likeness and image of man on earth

Apostle Paul no doubt gave us the definitive explanation of the difference between the two dimensions, per 1 Cor.15. But so did Jesus in John 3 when He was speaking with the Pharisee Nicodemus who believed on Him. Jesus said that which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit. Right there He made a distinction between the two different dimensions of existence.

Per Hebrews 4:12, God created those of us born in the flesh with a spirit, and a soul, and a flesh body. In Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 and Matthew 10:28, we are shown that our spirit and soul part are tied to our flesh body with a "silver cord". And if that "silver cord" is severed at flesh death, then our flesh material body goes back to the earthly elements where it came from, but our spirit (with soul) goes back to God Who gave it.

In other words, the flesh is NOT the 'real' us, person. It is just a shell for our spirit/soul for during this present world. Apostle Paul further revealed this in 2 Cor.15.

Even Hebrews 11:3 reveals that this present material creation was created from The Spirit per that Heavenly dimension. So we should not think of God in connection with this fleshy material world, which is the idea by Paul in Romans 1:23. Christ's flesh body was only for the purpose of His death on the cross, and God raising His flesh body and transfiguring it to "a quickening spirit" per Paul in 1 Cor.15. That was to show us about the ascendancy of that other Heavenly dimension of Spirit, as it had always existed first with GOD.

The meaning of Hebrews 2:7 with Jesus being made a little lower than the angels is explained further in Hebrews 2:9, showing that was only meant about Jesus being born through the flesh womb like us. It never meant His Spirit inside His flesh body stopped being God The Son while in a flesh body on earth. Matthew 1:23 even reveals this fact with quoting Jesus' name "Emmanuel" from Isaiah 7, which means 'God with us'.

 

[Always Believing]

The idea of hell being in the heart of the earth is a 'symbolic' representation only.

For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Jesus was not symbolically in hell at the heart of the earth.

And Satan today is still free to go back and forth up and down the earth and still appear in Heaven before God's throne (see Job 1 & 2). Thing is though, Satan is not visible to us when upon this earth, but once Rev.12:8 happens, he will be visible upon this earth, in OUR earthy dimension.

You are assuming that. Being on the earth with great wrath, does not mean he is seen physically doing so. The roaring lion is not seen, because he is still in his spiritual body on earth. His jewels and pipes are still there.

The Revelation 12:7-8 Scripture reveals when Satan and his angels are cast down to earth in our near future (for the coming trib),

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.

They're already there in hell awaiting judgment, and Rev 12 shows that though God is the One that cast them there, it is the devil that is responsible for it.

at that time their place will no more be found 'in heaven'.

This happened at the resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ. He didn't even bother fighting them Himself, but delegated it to Michael and his angels.

Now, Satan is only the prince and power of the air, with no place in heaven anymore to walk into the assembly of angels at the throneroom of God.

Rev 5 shows no place nor hint of Satan anywhere in heaven after the resurrection of Christ. Neither in the rest of Revelation where heaven is spoken of.

He is now at this time as a roaring walking about only on earth. No more in heaven.

And in Job 1 & 2 Satan is shown appearing before God's throne to accuse Job, revealing he had already rebelled against God and had fallen, yet still allowed to appear before God's throne.

True. As does Zechariah showing Satan allowed to stand at the right hand opposing God and His high priest Joshua.

No one can ever say anymore that God is a maker and tempter of man to sin, nor is the one creating evil in the world, nor has anything but love for all men.

So that difference makes this Rev.12:8 to be about Satan's future casting out of the heavenly dimension with his angels, down to our earth in OUR earthly dimension.

As, I said, he's now the god of this world and prince of the air only. He has been on the earth since the day he came into the garden in the person of a serpent.

That does not mean he can be physically seen as he is. He still looks like the angel he was created as seen in Ezek 28 with jewels and pipes, though a bit tarnished now.

Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water:

Those are ideas not written in God's Word, but come from old Jewish traditions. Very few Jews I have found understand about the two separate dimensions of existence, the earthly vs. the heavenly.

That's because they are natural men without eyes for the Spirit and the spiritual being of angels and men. The great error of the unbelieving Jews, as Paul points out, is they think they will live forever by outward works alone. They think they will inherit the land of Abraham by outward obedience to the law of Moses. It has nothing to do with faith from the heart, just obedience of the flesh.

Some Jews even believe a false idea like God's Heaven is simply in the sky atmosphere around the earth

The same natural philosophy of JW's who say the Spirit of God is the air of this earth, and a force that enters into all creatures by the nostrils.

It's pagan spiritism, that makes the air all creatures breathe, as well as the leaves of trees, into the Spirit of God: God is in and is His creation.

not true, because the sky atmosphere around the earth is part of this 'earthly dimension' of material matter, not the Heavenly dimension which is not made of material matter.

Which is where the spirit of this world moves and speaks his lust into the minds of men. The roaring lion walks about speaking directly into the minds of men. Neither God nor angels need lips to speak to men, but speak directly to the heart.

The only difference between us on earth and angels, is that we can't speak without lips into the minds of others. In the resurrection, with resurrected spiritual bodies, we will then be as the angels, and no more a little lower than them housed in earthen vessels.

In the very first Chapter of God's Word, in Genesis 1:26-27, we are shown God creating man in His Image Likeness. That means the image of 'man' does not originate with the flesh creation of man.

Already challenged this.

Man's soul is created in God's image, and the Word was made flesh in the likeness of men. God never had the image of a man, until He was made flesh.

This is why even the angels, when appearing on earth, appear with that image of man.

Because they are temporarily given it by God, not because they have it in heaven.

The only angel described in heaven by Scripture, is that of Lucifer in Ezek 28, and looks nothing like a man.

Gen 1:26-27
26 And God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
27 So God created man in His Own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.
KJV


Apostle Paul no doubt gave us the definitive explanation of the difference between the two dimensions, per 1 Cor.15. But so did Jesus in John 3 when He was speaking with the Pharisee Nicodemus who believed on Him. Jesus said that which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit. Right there He made a distinction between the two different dimensions of existence.

True, as well as the difference between being spiritually created in the image of God, and being shapen from the earth different from all other creatures on the earth.

Per Hebrews 4:12, God created those of us born in the flesh with a spirit, and a soul, and a flesh body.

Created in the Spirit, made in the flesh.

In Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 and Matthew 10:28, we are shown that our spirit and soul part are tied to our flesh body with a "silver cord". And if that "silver cord" is severed at flesh death, then our flesh material body goes back to the earthly elements where it came from, but our spirit (with soul) goes back to God Who gave it.

True. The spiritual image of God returns to God. The form flesh goes back to dust from whence God shapes it.

In other words, the flesh is NOT the 'real' us, person. It is just a shell for our spirit/soul for during this present world. Apostle Paul further revealed this in 2 Cor.15.

True. Neither is it the image of God, but of man only, which is shaped by Christ. He only has that likeness of men, because He was born of a woman. Not before.

We are created in God's image spiritually, and then God was made in our image physically.

Even Hebrews 11:3 reveals that this present material creation was created from The Spirit per that Heavenly dimension. So we should not think of God in connection with this fleshy material world, which is the idea by Paul in Romans 1:23. Christ's flesh body was only for the purpose of His death on the cross, and God raising His flesh body and transfiguring it to "a quickening spirit" per Paul in 1 Cor.15. That was to show us about the ascendancy of that other Heavenly dimension of Spirit, as it had always existed first with GOD.

True.

The meaning of Hebrews 2:7 with Jesus being made a little lower than the angels is explained further in Hebrews 2:9, showing that was only meant about Jesus being born through the flesh womb like us.

True. The only difference between us and angels is we being housed in the form of flesh of blood, not the angels. Nor is there created spiritual bodies the image of God on the throne, and especially not ours on earth.

Angels are not men, nor do they look like men, except in temporary shape and form as ministering angels.

It never meant His Spirit inside His flesh body stopped being God The Son while in a flesh body on earth. Matthew 1:23 even reveals this fact with quoting Jesus' name "Emmanuel" from Isaiah 7, which means 'God with us'.

True.

 

[Davy]

For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Jesus was not symbolically in hell at the heart of the earth.

Lord Jesus when The Father raised Him from the dead went unto the "spirits in prison" and preached The Gospel to them, per 1 Peter 3. I'm surprised you're not aware of this. That place He Peter shows that He was quickened by The Spirit to go there, so that ain't no literal heart of the material earth place, which is a primitive flesh notion.

You are assuming that. Being on the earth with great wrath, does not mean he is seen physically doing so. The roaring lion is not seen, because he is still in his spiritual body on earth. His jewels and pipes are still there.

No, I am not assuming that. If you had understood the prophecies in Ezekiel 28, Rev.12, Rev.13, Rev.17, Rev.11, etc., then you would understand that his future destruction is UPON this earth in plain sight (Ezekiel 28:18). Even Isaiah 14 reveals that in Christ's future "thousand years" reign we will look over in the pit and see him and say, "Is this the man that...". (Isaiah 14:12-16). And Rev.13:13-14 about the great wonders he will do when he gets here we are shown he does them in the sight of men, and in sight of the beast (kingdom)! You're simply listening to men's doctrines instead reading God's Word for yourself; that's why you aren't aware of these things.

When Satan comes for the end of this world, in OUR DIMENSION, the whole world will wonder at him. Jesus showed he will work great signs and wonders upon this earth that will deceive the whole... world, except Christ's very elect. So how's Satan going to do those great signs and wonders for the world to 'see' them and be deceived if they cannot 'see' him upon the in OUR DIMENSION? Your fleshy mind is not allowing you to understand God's reality per His Word. Your mind appears to be trapped in this material world only, so you're not understanding spiritual things.

The angels have the image of 'man' just like us (Genesis 1:26-27). They can even eat our food, even though they do not have flesh bodies while appearing and walking upon this earth (Genesis 18; Genesis 19). Their spirit bodies appear on earth just like us, as Paul even reminded us to be hospitable to strangers, because some have entertained angels unawares (Hebrews 13). So why won't you believe God's Word as written?

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.

They're already there in hell awaiting judgment, and Rev 12 shows that though God is the One that cast them there, it is the devil that is responsible for it.

Not all of Satan's angels are in chains. You have to remember to keep to the subject when reading God's Word, instead of pulling out a single verse by itself like the one-verse hobblers do...

2 Peter 2:4-5
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
KJV

What timing is that above about? Peter was speaking of the time of the flood in Noah's day. What did those angels do back then, those "sons of God" of Genesis 6? They looked upon flesh women and took literal wives of them, and caused a hybrid offspring of the giants, something God did not ordain nor create. That's why the giants had to be destroyed off the earth, for it was an attempt to attack the bloodline that Lord Jesus would be born through. Not all of Satan's angels took part in that, and those angels of Noah's time are the ones Peter shows are locked in chains awaiting the Judgement.

This happened at the resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ. He didn't even bother fighting them Himself, but delegated it to Michael and his angels.

Now, Satan is only the prince and power of the air, with no place in heaven anymore to walk into the assembly of angels at the throneroom of God.

It did NOT... happen at the time of the cross. The Rev.12:7-9 war in Heaven is still YET TO HAPPEN.

I tried to explain to you about the two separate dimensions of existence per God's Word, but I cannot get through to you because of your mind is only willing to accept this material earthly dimension. You will never understand the Rev.12:8 verse about Satan's place no more found in Heaven after that war until you first understand about BOTH dimension examples in God's Word. At present, your mind is in stuck mode just like the Pharisee Nicodemus Jesus tried to show these things to per John 3.

Rev 5 shows no place nor hint of Satan anywhere in heaven after the resurrection of Christ. Neither in the rest of Revelation where heaven is spoken of.

He is now at this time as a roaring walking about only on earth. No more in heaven.

Satan is STILL in the same mode he has been in since he rebelled against God in the old world, and our example of that for AFTER his fall is in the Job 1 and Job 2 examples. Those Job chapters reveal Satan is FREE TO ROAM in BOTH... heaven and upon this earth.

Satan won't be locked in his pit prison until the day Jesus returns. But the Rev.12:8 verse of his casting out of Heaven is not about the time of Christ's future return, nor Christ's 1st coming, because Rev.12:11 that goes with it is SPECIFICALLY about the persecution at the end of this world of Christ's saints during the coming "great tribulation"! It's because that verse is about the 5th SEAL of Rev.6. (I already mentioned this point, but you just bypassed it which to me shows it's something else you don't understanding about that Rev.12 chapter.

True. As does Zechariah showing Satan allowed to stand at the right hand opposing God and His high priest Joshua.

Nah... don't get the wrong idea about the time of Job, with Satan appearing before God's throne to accuse Job. That is STILL going on today, Satan is STILL able to appear in Heaven and accuse us before God's throne. But once that war in Heaven of Rev.12:7-9 happens, that... is when Satan won't be allowed back in Heaven.

And like I've already said, there's only TWO DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS OF EXISTENCE written of in God's Word, this "earthly" one of material matter, and the "heavenly" one of Spirit where God and the angels, and the spirits of the dead are. So when Satan is no longer allowed to appear in the heavenly dimension, there is ONLY ONE OTHER DIMENSION HE CAN APPEAR IN, and it is OUR's.

Rest of your post is just totally irrelevant to what I've said, so I won't respond to it.

 

[WPM]

If you are not up to speed on what man's doctrine of Amillennialism is about, then I recommend reading the following link: What is amillennialism? | GotQuestions.org

The doctrine of Amillennialism believes the Revelation 20 "thousand years" reign by Christ and His elect is metaphorical, and not about a literal time period. They instead treat it as the time for the Church age, like from Christ's death and resurrection until His future return. That means they believe since Jesus died on the cross and rose, that His Kingdom right then was commenced on earth.

They see the "thousand years" number as just a spiritual number which has no specific literal span of time, which is related to the idea which the Jews used in their Kabbalah and Gematria numerical systems of mysticism applied to Bible Scripture (very similar to the Bible Codes ideas).

In John 18:36, Lord Jesus said His Kingdom is NOT of this world, meaning of this present world time. His 'spiritual' kingdom began at His death and resurrection, but not His LITERAL KINGDOM TO COME.

Yet many Amillennialists believe we are in Christ's Kingdom NOW, with some even thinking that ALL peoples of this present world time will eventually convert to Jesus Christ! They believe it is their job in Christ to help Jesus create His Literal Kingdom here and now during this present world time. That is why they apply some of the events of Revelation 20 backwards, as if they apply now during the time of the Church age.

Those who have studied The Word of God should see a major problem with that thinking, because God's Word reveals this present world is preserved unto destruction by fire, and that the end of this world is going to be ruled by evil men and a specific coming Antichrist who is to show up in Jerusalem at the very end, and persecute Christ's saints. And the whole world is to worship him, excepting Christ's elect (Revelation 11; Revelation 13; 2 Peter 3:10; Daniel 2; Daniel 7, 8, 9, 10, 12; Matthew 24:15-26; 2 Thessalonians 2).

I admit, by the time of the 2nd century A.D., with The Gospel being preached particularly in Asia Minor and Europe, and many accepting Christ Jesus there with miraculous growth of Christ's Church, that many began to think that Jesus' literal Kingdom had come then, and would takeover the whole world in time. But there has... to be some amount of 'independent' thought about that idea originating from sources outside Bible Scripture. Reason I say that is because God's Word does not teach this PRESENT world could ever become the Kingdom of Christ Jesus. Instead, God's Word reveals that this present world is given to the devil to rule over, but with God protecting His that He preserves.

Just what sources might that 'independent' thinking be, of believing this present world today is Christ's Kingdom having come already (even without Jesus having returned yet), and that it is our job to make it happen FOR THIS PRESENT WORLD TIME?

Might that involve Satan's host who plan to establish a one-world kingdom for the dragon to come and rule over? Believe it or not, that... is actually what is prophesied for the end of this world per Christ's Book of Revelation (Revelation 13). Who would be working for that goal during this present world? Satan's occult hierarchy. There, the cat's out of the bag.

For over 22 centuries, the occult secret societies of today have claimed their origins from the old "mysteries" (they call it). In ancient Egypt there were so-called 'mystery schools' run by the Egyptian priesthood. To become a student under their system one had to petition for training as an initiate neophyte. The priest's teachings involved the esoteric mysteries hidden from the general populace, and contained secret formulas, sciences, studies of nature and mathematics, things which for ancient peoples seemed like miracles, but for today's time are taught in most of the universities. The priests controlled this system of knowledge, and one had to be initiated into their 'mysteries' in order to have access. And it also involved an ancient occult philosophy. Much of this ancient knowledge was housed in the library at Alexandria, Egypt which burned down.

More About Their 'Mysteries':
Their 'mysteries' did not only involve natural science, but also OCCULT SCIENCE. What's that? Basically, Esoterica, hidden knowledge. That's getting into the realm of 'magic', ceremonial or ritual magic, conjuring up demons, conversing with spirits, seeking to enter into the underworld (what some would call 'astral projection' today), association, sorcery, witchcraft, diviners, necromancy, etc. Those kind of things God told His people to not do, and under the old covenant anyone found doing them was to be put away (Exodus 22:18; Deuteronomy 18:9-13).

Sorry to say, those things are still going on today among the secret societies of initiation that practice the occult, and no doubt have increased, since the Christian Church no longer penalizes those caught practicing those things. Thus you won't find very many of them being exposed, which reveals how deeply rooted in secret their systems are in today's society over all the world.

The doctrine of Amillennialism is thus A PERFECT VEHICLE for the Occult secret societies plans for a "one world government" in preparation for Lucifer to come and rule over the world in person, their king, and their 'rock' which they worship.


Therefore, God's Word is giving us a whole lot of information in a general sense about these events for the end of this world. And many brethren are almost completely ignorant of today's OCCULT SECRET SOCIETY working in order to bring CHRIST'S KINGDOM. That's the next subject on this matter coming...

(Continued...)

It seems like you are eaten up with gross bitterness towards Amil truth and Amils. You do not have the backbone to come over to the Eschatology Forum (where this belong) and make these ridiculous claims. That is because you know you would get pummeled there. Every single argument you have presented lately has been suitably blown out of the water. You have been forced to run here and hide. You cowardly start it here where you can get away with this nonsense. Your theology is built upon your own imaginations and deep hatred towards fellow believers!

I am encouraged though. Amils must be doing something right. Premils are scared of something - that something is the truth. Anything seems to go at the moment.

 

[WPM]

If you are not up to speed on what man's doctrine of Amillennialism is about, then I recommend reading the following link: What is amillennialism? | GotQuestions.org

The doctrine of Amillennialism believes the Revelation 20 "thousand years" reign by Christ and His elect is metaphorical, and not about a literal time period. They instead treat it as the time for the Church age, like from Christ's death and resurrection until His future return. That means they believe since Jesus died on the cross and rose, that His Kingdom right then was commenced on earth.

They see the "thousand years" number as just a spiritual number which has no specific literal span of time, which is related to the idea which the Jews used in their Kabbalah and Gematria numerical systems of mysticism applied to Bible Scripture (very similar to the Bible Codes ideas).

In John 18:36, Lord Jesus said His Kingdom is NOT of this world, meaning of this present world time. His 'spiritual' kingdom began at His death and resurrection, but not His LITERAL KINGDOM TO COME.

Yet many Amillennialists believe we are in Christ's Kingdom NOW, with some even thinking that ALL peoples of this present world time will eventually convert to Jesus Christ! They believe it is their job in Christ to help Jesus create His Literal Kingdom here and now during this present world time. That is why they apply some of the events of Revelation 20 backwards, as if they apply now during the time of the Church age.

Those who have studied The Word of God should see a major problem with that thinking, because God's Word reveals this present world is preserved unto destruction by fire, and that the end of this world is going to be ruled by evil men and a specific coming Antichrist who is to show up in Jerusalem at the very end, and persecute Christ's saints. And the whole world is to worship him, excepting Christ's elect (Revelation 11; Revelation 13; 2 Peter 3:10; Daniel 2; Daniel 7, 8, 9, 10, 12; Matthew 24:15-26; 2 Thessalonians 2).

I admit, by the time of the 2nd century A.D., with The Gospel being preached particularly in Asia Minor and Europe, and many accepting Christ Jesus there with miraculous growth of Christ's Church, that many began to think that Jesus' literal Kingdom had come then, and would takeover the whole world in time. But there has... to be some amount of 'independent' thought about that idea originating from sources outside Bible Scripture. Reason I say that is because God's Word does not teach this PRESENT world could ever become the Kingdom of Christ Jesus. Instead, God's Word reveals that this present world is given to the devil to rule over, but with God protecting His that He preserves.

Just what sources might that 'independent' thinking be, of believing this present world today is Christ's Kingdom having come already (even without Jesus having returned yet), and that it is our job to make it happen FOR THIS PRESENT WORLD TIME?

Might that involve Satan's host who plan to establish a one-world kingdom for the dragon to come and rule over? Believe it or not, that... is actually what is prophesied for the end of this world per Christ's Book of Revelation (Revelation 13). Who would be working for that goal during this present world? Satan's occult hierarchy. There, the cat's out of the bag.

For over 22 centuries, the occult secret societies of today have claimed their origins from the old "mysteries" (they call it). In ancient Egypt there were so-called 'mystery schools' run by the Egyptian priesthood. To become a student under their system one had to petition for training as an initiate neophyte. The priest's teachings involved the esoteric mysteries hidden from the general populace, and contained secret formulas, sciences, studies of nature and mathematics, things which for ancient peoples seemed like miracles, but for today's time are taught in most of the universities. The priests controlled this system of knowledge, and one had to be initiated into their 'mysteries' in order to have access. And it also involved an ancient occult philosophy. Much of this ancient knowledge was housed in the library at Alexandria, Egypt which burned down.

More About Their 'Mysteries':
Their 'mysteries' did not only involve natural science, but also OCCULT SCIENCE. What's that? Basically, Esoterica, hidden knowledge. That's getting into the realm of 'magic', ceremonial or ritual magic, conjuring up demons, conversing with spirits, seeking to enter into the underworld (what some would call 'astral projection' today), association, sorcery, witchcraft, diviners, necromancy, etc. Those kind of things God told His people to not do, and under the old covenant anyone found doing them was to be put away (Exodus 22:18; Deuteronomy 18:9-13).

Sorry to say, those things are still going on today among the secret societies of initiation that practice the occult, and no doubt have increased, since the Christian Church no longer penalizes those caught practicing those things. Thus you won't find very many of them being exposed, which reveals how deeply rooted in secret their systems are in today's society over all the world.

The doctrine of Amillennialism is thus A PERFECT VEHICLE for the Occult secret societies plans for a "one world government" in preparation for Lucifer to come and rule over the world in person, their king, and their 'rock' which they worship.


Therefore, God's Word is giving us a whole lot of information in a general sense about these events for the end of this world. And many brethren are almost completely ignorant of today's OCCULT SECRET SOCIETY working in order to bring CHRIST'S KINGDOM. That's the next subject on this matter coming...

(Continued...)

Believers need to know the vicious and venomous type of language you use on this forum when responding to fellow-believers:

Well, you're definitely already deceived, and you even act... like you WANT to be deceived by Satan.

I suggest you pray to The Father through His Son to cast out the evil spirit that is in you that would cause you to say such a thing, in Christ Jesus' name, amen.

Nothing but mostly DECEIVERS on this thread brethren.



They don't know their Bible, but only claim to know what God's Word says while they come here pushing the latest garbage lesson they learned by the crept in unawares in their particular Beth-Avens (house of vanity).

Don't listen to that Amillennialist baloney brethren …But the Amillennialist liars only pull single verses out of The Bible to TRY... and trick you with! And it's VERY obvious they are telling LIES easy to see for those who actually READ their Bible!

Well, you're definitely already deceived, and you even act... like you WANT to be deceived by Satan.

I suggest you pray to The Father through His Son to cast out the evil spirit that is in you that would cause you to say such a thing, in Christ Jesus' name, amen.

Don't listen to that Amillennialist baloney brethren

the Amillennialist liars only pull single verses out of The Bible to TRY... and trick you with! And it's VERY obvious they are telling LIES easy to see for those who actually READ their Bible!

“You are a fake.”

“Vanity.”

“The Amill position is in support of Satan's working of a one-world government.”

“I have countered the baloney your Amill false believes.”

“This is hilarious.”

"Hogwash -- all of it!"

"Balderdash!”

"more hot air!"

"You need to repent to Jesus and ask Him forgiveness for denying His Word."

“What you're asking is just silly.”

“you need to get real, and stop those silly vague questions that only serve as attempted traps, like "are you still beating your wife?"

“I ain't easy prey like you're used to.”

“why not admit the charlatans you heed failed to prepare you for that”

 

[Davy]

Believers need to know the vicious and venomous type of language you use on this forum when responding to fellow-believers:

My attempt at your Biblical education is over. You have chosen to ignore... the written Word of God of which I have constantly provided you for back up. Thus you reveal you are here to support AN AGENDA OF MAN, and not God. So may God rebuke you, in the Name of Jesus Christ!

 

[WPM]

My attempt at your Biblical education is over. You have chosen to ignore... the written Word of God of which I have constantly provided you for back up. Thus you reveal you are here to support AN AGENDA OF MAN, and not God. So may God rebuke you, in the Name of Jesus Christ!

Amils embrace God's Word of truth, not your campaign of lies and hate.

 

[Always Believing]

Lord Jesus when The Father raised Him from the dead went unto the "spirits in prison" and preached The Gospel to them, per 1 Peter 3. I'm surprised you're not aware of this. That place He Peter shows that He was quickened by The Spirit to go there,

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison.

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

He became the quickening Spirit from the cross, not later at His resurrection. He went into the heart of the earth from the cross, to preach to the spirits in prison of hell.

Your account has Him in the grave for three days, which is the natural-minded doctrine, that men are only their bodies.

No, I am not assuming that. If you had understood the prophecies in Ezekiel 28, Rev.12, Rev.13, Rev.17, Rev.11, etc., then you would understand that his future destruction is UPON this earth in plain sight (Ezekiel 28:18).

Seeing the destruction, is not necessarily seeing the destroyer.

Even Isaiah 14 reveals that in Christ's future "thousand years" reign we will look over in the pit and see him and say, "Is this the man that...". (Isaiah 14:12-16).

I've offered my challenge to this. By not responding in kind, but only repeating yourself, then you concede the argument.

The angels have the image of 'man' just like us (Genesis 1:26-27). They can even eat our food, even though they do not have flesh bodies while appearing and walking upon this earth (Genesis 18; Genesis 19). Their spirit bodies appear on earth just like us, as Paul even reminded us to be hospitable to strangers, because some have entertained angels unawares (Hebrews 13). So why won't you believe God's Word as written?

Once again, you're just repeating yourself without responding to my challenges. Unless you can show any error in them, then they stand.

Not all of Satan's angels are in chains.

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Peter and Jude speak of all them that sinned and kept not their first estate.

It did NOT... happen at the time of the cross. The Rev.12:7-9 war in Heaven is still YET TO HAPPEN.

And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Jesus said otherwise.

Once again, you read into something not there, nor in conjunction with all Scripture.

And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth.

Appeared and drew is past tense. Not shall appear and shall draw.

Since all those third part of stars are own in hell, then Rev 12 reveals more detail of the whole war and results.

And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Babylon the great has already been here, since the first apostles and antichrists went out from the apostles' doctrine, to establish their own gospel and church of Christ. Persecution of Christians has been going on ever since Jesus was crucified.

I tried to explain to you about the two separate dimensions of existence per God's Word, but I cannot get through to you because of your mind is only willing to accept this material earthly dimension.

Whatever. Unless you begin responding to my challenges, then they stand.

because Rev.12:11 that goes with it is SPECIFICALLY about the persecution at the end of this world of Christ's saints during the coming "great tribulation"!

Great tribulation of saints has been on earth by the wrath of man, since Cain slew Abel. That great tribulation also continued for the godly children of Israel,

And, behold, as thy life was much set by this day in mine eyes, so let my life be much set by in the eyes of the LORD, and let him deliver me out of all tribulation.

And continues today for godly Christians of Christ.

Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

The tribulation and wrath of man upon the righteous, is allowed by God to purify His people, and no believer enters into His kingdom without it, nor is resurrected without enduring it unto the end.

And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

This is prophecy that the purifying tribulation upon God's people, will continue unto it's end on earth by the Lord's return and first resurrection of the His saints into the air.

All the Jews looked for His coming to end their tribulation, which is why many rejected Him.

When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

And even the believing disciples still looked for the end of their tribulation immediately after His resurrection, desiring Him to establish His kingdom rule on earth at that time.

All Christians today ought be looking for the end our own enduring tribulation on earth by the grave or His coming again.

Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

If any Christian thinks there will only be great tribulation on earth for Christians in the future, then they have a godliness problem.

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

This is the promised great tribulation of God upon all them on earth, that have no part in His resurrection of the church.

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

There is the tribulation by wrath of man to purify the saints, and there is the tribulation by wrath of God to punish the wicked.

There has already been much tribulation for thousands of years, by the wicked upon the righteous, and the time of God's just recompence of His tribulation and aguish upon the whole earth, is at His return and resurrection of the church.

Nah... don't get the wrong idea about the time of Job, with Satan appearing before God's throne to accuse Job. That is STILL going on today, Satan is STILL able to appear in Heaven and accuse us before God's throne.

He is now the prince and power of the air, and walks as a roaring lion upon the earth only. Satan no longer has any place whatsoever with our resurrected Lord in heaven. There is no such place found for him anywhere near Heaven's throne room as spoken of in Revelation.

When the Lord returns in the air, then there will be no more place found for him in the air, nor on earth. He will then be shut up in prison of hell with the rest of his angels chained there, and them in hell will narrowly look on him as being like a man, because he will be tormented as they.

And like I've already said, there's only TWO DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS OF EXISTENCE written of in God's Word, this "earthly" one of material matter, and the "heavenly" one of Spirit where God and the angels, and the spirits of the dead are. So when Satan is no longer allowed to appear in the heavenly dimension, there is ONLY ONE OTHER DIMENSION HE CAN APPEAR IN, and it is OUR's.

So, you acknowledge the spiritual kingdom and the natural world. Then you are not a natural minded man only. Good for you.

Rest of your post is just totally irrelevant to what I've said, so I won't respond to it.

I.e. you only repeat yourself, and do not accept challenges, much less respond to them. I've already seen that enough here.

 

[Davy]

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison.

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

He became the quickening Spirit from the cross, not later at His resurrection. He went into the heart of the earth from the cross, to preach to the spirits in prison of hell.

Your account has Him in the grave for three days, which is the natural-minded doctrine, that men are only their bodies.

Sorry, but it is your account that is lacking and not keeping with Bible Scripture. Here's why...

Notice this happened at the cross...

Matt 27:51-53
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after His resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
KJV

I'm not going to waste the amount of space required to explain those resurrection events to you when you should have understood the connection of the "spirits in prison" Jesus preached The Gospel to with those saints coming out of their graves at His crucifixion and resurrection.

Therefore, YOU SHOULD HAVE NEVER FALSELY ACCUSED ME of thinking some idiotic idea that Jesus, or even the dead, is just about dead bodies in the grave. That false idea instead of from the FALSE JEW'S TRADITIONS, because it is they that wrongly believe our soul is part of our flesh, and dies with our flesh and both flesh and soul are raised together at the resurrection. They are the ones behind the false 'dead in the ground' theory!

Lord Jesus is GOD. Even when born in the flesh like us, He never stopped being God. And that is because of the TWO DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS I keep trying to explain to you and other brethren. It's like Lord Jesus said in John 3, "That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit."

In other words, Spirit is NEVER flesh, and visa versa. God made us with 3 parts per Hebrews 4:12, a spirit, a soul, and flesh (or marrow). When our flesh body dies, it goes back to the earthly elements where it came from. But our soul with spirit goes back to God Who gave it, and that means in the heavenly dimension of Spirit. Our 'real' home is actually in Heaven in a spirit existence. We are only here in the flesh temporarily.

Seeing the destruction, is not necessarily seeing the destroyer.

That is denying God's Word as written about Satan's destruction upon the earth. I'll bet you don't even know the Scripture where that destruction is written, EVEN after I have already SHOWN YOU where to look. How can any serious Bible student have an intelligent conversation with someone like you who is so adamantly Biblically illiterate?

I've offered my challenge to this. By not responding in kind, but only repeating yourself, then you concede the argument.

There is no such challenge about that Isaiah 14:12-16 Scripture, for that is GOD Himself speaking there. Either you believe Him, or you don't.

By your statement, you reveal you do NOT believe what God said there.

Once again, you're just repeating yourself without responding to my challenges. Unless you can show any error in them, then they stand.

Not at all, you simply are a COWARD by refusing to address the Bible Scriptures I have shown you. You are not given to understand them, so now you make up EXCUSES, trying to project your Biblical ignorance onto me. But of course that won't work, because you are so far behind in understanding even the simple... things written in God's Word!

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Peter and Jude speak of all them that sinned and kept not their first estate.

Like I said before, not ALL of Satan's angels were put in chains. Those Peter speaks of there in 2 Peter 2:4-5 is about the DAYS OF NOAH.

I explained that previously, and even showed how YOU LEFT OUT THE 2 PETER 2:5 verse which identifies those specific angels being those "sons of God" in Noah's day that took flesh wives of men and produced a hybrid giant race. It was that... act... which is what the 'kept not their first estate', but left their own habitation' idea in Jude 6 is about! That further proves what I've been saying, that the angels that are in chains kept until the Judgement is ONLY about those of Genesis 6 that came to earth and took wives of flesh men in Noah's day!

Now how much brain power does it take to then figure out those angels doing that in Noah's day means Satan had already rebelled long before the time of Noah and those angels taking wives of flesh woman. And NOTHING is written for that time of Noah's day about Satan being cast down to the earth with his angels!

And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Jesus said otherwise.

Jesus wasn't telling a lie, He did see Satan as lightning fall from heaven, back in the OLD WORLD WHEN SATAN FIRST REBELLED IN WANTING TO BE GOD.

By the time Satan shows up in the Garden of Eden as "that old serpent", he had already rebelled and had fallen, and was in his role as the tempter, working against God. But via parable in Ezekiel 28, God showed that He originally created Satan perfect in his ways, and that Satan originally followed God. So WHEN WAS THAT 'before'... Satan rebelled? It certainly was NOT... during the time of Adam and Eve, but long before that, before sin and before the concept of death, before this present world!

So your, "Jesus said otherwise" statement only reveals your continued Biblical illiteracy.

Once again, you read into something not there, nor in conjunction with all Scripture.

No, YOU are the one reading into the Scriptures a bunch of falseness, because at this point I don't even believe you are a true Christian, but have only come here to create CHAOS and lies against God's Word. I cannot get you to intelligently address the Scriptures I have shown you, and you keep reverting to bearing false witness, which reveals YOU DO NOT KNOW, NOR CARE ABOUT GOD'S WORD.

 

[Always Believing]

Matt 27:51-53
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after His resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
KJV

I'm not going to waste the amount of space required to explain those resurrection events to you when you should have understood the connection of the "spirits in prison" Jesus preached The Gospel to with those saints coming out of their graves at His crucifixion and resurrection.

Now this is an interesting take, but not true. The problem of course, is that Jesus went by the Spirit to preach to them in prison. Where the wicked are chained unto judgment, and the saints were with Abraham awaiting resurrection. Afterward, Jesus has ascending with Abraham and His faithful children on high, while leaving the wicked chained in hell.

Bring my soul out of prison, that I may praise thy name: the righteous shall compass me about; for thou shalt deal bountifully with me.

This is David prophesying the release by Christ from the prison in hell for the OT saints, called Abraham's bosom.

And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

This is Isaiah prophesying of the wicked in prison of hell, awaiting their judgment with the rest of the dead.

Those OT saints came out of their graves, like Lazarus, at the point of Jesus' death with an earthquake. They were no longer in the 'so-called prison' graves, nor did Jesus come to them 'by the Spirit'. He came to them along with all His other disciples with resurrected flesh and bones.

The grave is never referred to as a prison. The reason being of course, dead corpses are dead, where there is nothing left alive of them to imprison. It would be like calling a mummy's sarcophagus a prison. A prison is not just a box full of dust and bones, but is a holding place without escape for them that know it.

 

[Always Believing]

That false idea instead of from the FALSE JEW'S TRADITIONS, because it is they that wrongly believe our soul is part of our flesh, and dies with our flesh and both flesh and soul are raised together at the resurrection. They are the ones behind the false 'dead in the ground' theory!I

If you are speaking of the JW natural theology, that we have mortal souls of flesh and blood, then of course I agree condemnation of it.

That's not the dead in Christ being the dead bodies of saints.

But our soul with spirit goes back to God Who gave it, and that means in the heavenly dimension of Spirit.

This of course adds 'soul' to the Scripture:

Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

You must remember that Solomon at this time was not righteous with God, nor had the faith of David and Abraham, but was many times speaking only of philosophic and practical wisdom of the natural man.

You are trying to insert the truth of a man's soul into Solomon's natural minded philosophy.

Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.

This is never something David nor Abraham would ever say at all. Solomon here is making all men to be the same as all animals, with only spirit and body. He still acknowledges God the Creator, but it is a natural theology only.

The spirits all return to god the same as given the bodies, but the souls of men do not. They either go to hell or the presence of the Lord. Solomon, at the time, was not speaking as a righteous man of Davi's faith.

It's not that there was no actually Scripture of God written by him in Ecclesiastes, but not all was Scripture of God, but only his current natural mindedness on certain matters.