ANSWERING "IRREFUTABLE QUESTIONS" from bible.con

[Stranger]

Many Bibles also tell us the story of the woman caught in adultery was not originally included. Does that change anything when we read it, since it is also within the black leather covers of our sacred book?

Yes, it changes the fact that it belongs in the Bible and others have taken it out.

Are you saying you read it and get something out of it, though you believe it is not the Word of God. Figures.

Stranger

 

[Enoch111]

Besides - your math DOESN'T add up. Since when does 24 = 39?? .

Since the Hebrew Tanakh began to be translated into other languages, beginning with the Septuagint (Greek), going on to the Vulgate (Latin), and then to the various Reformation Bibles.

The following books were split into their components to created 39 books out of 24:
Samuel (2) 1 extra
Kings (2) 1 extra
Chronicles (2)1 extra
Ezra-Nehemiah (2)1 extra
The Minor Prophets (12) 11 extra

So when you add 15 extra books to 24 you get 39.

The Apocrypha was never in the Hebrew Tanakh, but added to the Septuagint (a corrupted Old Testament translation).

 

[BreadOfLife]

Since the Hebrew Tanakh began to be translated into other languages, beginning with the Septuagint (Greek), going on to the Vulgate (Latin), and then to the various Reformation Bibles.

The following books were split into their components to created 39 books out of 24:
Samuel (2) 1 extra
Kings (2) 1 extra
Chronicles (2)1 extra
Ezra-Nehemiah (2)1 extra
The Minor Prophets (12) 11 extra

So when you add 15 extra books to 24 you get 39.

The Apocrypha was never in the Hebrew Tanakh, but added to the Septuagint (a corrupted Old Testament translation).

Not only was the Septuagint NOT a "corrupted" Old Testament translation - it is quoted, referenced and alluded to some 200 times in the New Testament. It was part of the OPEN Jewish canon when Jesus walked the earth. It was the same canon that HE learned from as a young man.

Where do Books like Job and Esther fit into your definition of canonical OT Books?? Neither of them is considered a major OR minor Prophet - and certainly not Books of the Law.

 

[epostle]

Genuine love includes the truth, since grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. And the truth is that those who are presently within the Catholic Church must come out of her and be separate. Just the sexual abuse scandal should be enough, but what is behind that scandal is a phony priesthood and a phony clerical hierarchy. Phony because it is not supported by the New Testament.

What you call a "smear campaign" is simply exposing the lies which the CC has promoted for a very long time. Those in the CC should be willing to take a good hard look at what this religious system has been doing for hundreds of years, examine it in the light of Scripture, and then depart from the CC. Perhaps you should read Fifty Years in the Church of Rome by (former) Father Charles Chiniquy. That is exactly what he did.

Please note from chapter 13:
"...But how shall I relate my surprise when I discovered that, in order to accept the principles of the theologians which my Church gave me for guides I had to put away all principles of truth, of justice, of honour and holiness! What long and painful efforts it cost me to extinguish, one by one, the lights of truth and of reason kindled by the hand of my merciful God in my intelligence. For to study theology in the Church of Rome signifies to learn to speak falsely, to deceive, to commit robbery, to perjure one's self! It means how to commit sins without shame, it means to plunge the soul into every kind of iniquity and turpitude without remorse!

I know that Roman Catholics will bravely and squarely deny what I now say. I am aware also that a great many Protestants, too easily deceived by the fine whitewashing of the exterior walls of Rome, will refuse to believe me. Nevertheless they may rest assured it is true, and my proof will be irrefutable..."

Charles Chiniquy? That explains a lot.

In 1885, a former Catholic priest, Charles Chiniquy, wrote a book titled Fifty Years in the Church of Rome in which he made many scandalous allegations against the Catholic Church, including the accusation that the assassination of President Abraham Lincoln in 1865 had been the result of a conspiracy by the Catholic Church, and that the assassin John Wilkes Booth was a Catholic who had been corrupted and led by the Vatican to commit the murder.

Chiniquy, who had been excommunicated by the Catholic Church in 1858, claimed that "emissaries of the Pope" had promised Booth "a crown of glory in heaven" for the killing of Lincoln. According to Chiniquy, the assassination was perpetrated by the Church in revenge for Lincoln's defense of Chiniquy in a 1856 lawsuit.

Chiniquy's writings are still widely distributed and promoted, in books and on webpages. The goal of this website is to provide factual information concerning Charles Chiniquy and his allegations against the Catholic Church.

WHO WAS CHARLES CHINIQUY: Facts Versus Falsehood on this anti-Catholic preacher

Isaiah 5:20 “Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!”

 

[epostle]

Since the Hebrew Tanakh began to be translated into other languages, beginning with the Septuagint (Greek), going on to the Vulgate (Latin), and then to the various Reformation Bibles.

The following books were split into their components to created 39 books out of 24:
Samuel (2) 1 extra
Kings (2) 1 extra
Chronicles (2)1 extra
Ezra-Nehemiah (2)1 extra
The Minor Prophets (12) 11 extra

So when you add 15 extra books to 24 you get 39.

The Apocrypha was never in the Hebrew Tanakh, but added to the Septuagint (a corrupted Old Testament translation).

Please provide a biblical codex before the 14th century containing 66 books.
"Apocrypha" is a term encompassing both inspired books and uninspired books, and should not be used to replace "Deuterocanonical books that were eroded from the Bible.
Deuterocanonical books were not part of the Hebrew Tanakh because they were written in Greek, not Hebrew.
Berea is in Greece.
The Bereans were Greek.
Paul spoke to them in Greek.
It stands to reason that the Bereans included Greek Scripture in their searching as they had done for 200 years before Christ.
I wait for your "corrupted" quotes of the the first 5 books of Moses.

Please refrain from stupid flaming zingers without specifics. It just shows troll-ness.

 

[Truth]

I believe Hebrews 11:35 is referring to 2 McCabees.

I do believe those two books were eliminated by Protestants because it supports praying to or for the dead.
Can't remember right now.

The Feast in the NT, That our Savior went up to and Observed, was in fact the Feast of Hanukkah, which was established through Tradition, by the Jew'a for the Celebration of the Maccabees over throwing the Greek General Antiacus, and reclaiming the Temple Mount. The NT describes it as the Feast of Dedication ! After overthrowing the Greek's they had to cleanse the Temple Mount, rebuild an Alter, and rekindle the 7 Branch Manoriah in the Temple. John 10:22. This is not a commanded Feast, But Purum is also a Traditional Feast observed, the Story of Eshter also another Shadow?????
I believe that the Book's of the Maccabees Should be retained as Scripture, and included in the Cannon, It is a Shadow of a future event!

 

[epostle]

The Feast in the NT, That our Savior went up to and Observed, was in fact the Feast of Hanukkah, which was established through Tradition, by the Jew'a for the Celebration of the Maccabees over throwing the Greek General Antiacus, and reclaiming the Temple Mount. The NT describes it as the Feast of Dedication ! After overthrowing the Greek's they had to cleanse the Temple Mount, rebuild an Alter, and rekindle the 7 Branch Manoriah in the Temple. John 10:22. This is not a commanded Feast, But Purum is also a Traditional Feast observed, the Story of Eshter also another Shadow?????
I believe that the Book's of the Maccabees Should be retained as Scripture, and included in the Cannon, It is a Shadow of a future event!

Great post. Do you have a link? I'd like to read more.
I don't care if our separated brethren consider the 7 Deuterocanonical books as non-canonical, but to deny them as part of Jewish history
is like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

 

[Truth]

Great post. Do you have a link? I'd like to read more.
I don't care if our separated brethren consider the 7 Deuterocanonical books as non-canonical, but to deny them as part of Jewish history
is like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

I will have to get back to you! as it will take time to compile info, from Scripture and Aline the Shadow's so as to make sense!

 

[GodsGrace]

The Feast in the NT, That our Savior went up to and Observed, was in fact the Feast of Hanukkah, which was established through Tradition, by the Jew'a for the Celebration of the Maccabees over throwing the Greek General Antiacus, and reclaiming the Temple Mount. The NT describes it as the Feast of Dedication ! After overthrowing the Greek's they had to cleanse the Temple Mount, rebuild an Alter, and rekindle the 7 Branch Manoriah in the Temple. John 10:22. This is not a commanded Feast, But Purum is also a Traditional Feast observed, the Story of Eshter also another Shadow?????
I believe that the Book's of the Maccabees Should be retained as Scripture, and included in the Cannon, It is a Shadow of a future event!

This is very interesting.
Will do a small study on it...

 

[Truth]

Great post. Do you have a link? I'd like to read more.
I don't care if our separated brethren consider the 7 Deuterocanonical books as non-canonical, but to deny them as part of Jewish history
is like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

I do not have a link! So I will try to give some references from Scripture to establish the Shadow of future event's from the book of the Machabees!
Daniel 11:30-33 take notice of verse 31, this is where they defile the Sanctuary, and stop the Daily Sacrifices and set up an Idol!
Once the Sacrifices are stopped! If they miss one daily Sacrifice the Alter is Void! It can not be used unless it is rededicated, and that is an eight day processes, I am not sure! but they might have to rebuild a new Alter, and dedicate it for 8 days.
If the Temple Mount and Sanctuary are defiled by Unclean people then the Temple and all must be cleansed.
So shutting down the Alter, Placing an Idol, and even roasting unclean animals on the Alter would in essence make the Temple area Desolate.
There are quite a lot of Theologian's that say this is fulfilled! Because of the Machbees history!
BUT!!! Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14 Which were written Hundred's of years, Long after the Machbees, Our Savior Specifically address's the Prophet Danial Matthew 24:15 - Therefore when you see the "Abomination of Desolation" Spoken of by Danial the Prophet! This will Happen Again According to the book of the revelation!! The Anti-Christ will shut down the Alter, Set up an Idol, and declare Himself God.
His Presence is Unclean, an Idol set up is a defilement, and to declare himself god if Blasphemy! IT is an Abomination ! and the Holy Place will Again be Desolate! This Day is the beginning of the last 3 1/2 year's called the GREAT TRIBULATION
As I reread the 1st book of the Machabees, within the first two chapters, these event's were done by Antiochus The Greek King! Trying to Destroy the backbone of the Hebrew People. Every aspect of the Covenants were Forbidden!