Anti- Christian Crusade.
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Rights of democracy?StanJ said:
Suppose we start according the "rights of democracy" to all sinners? Would that be a good idea, do you think?
Do you not know that this sin is being brought into the church? I can no longer attend the church I grew up in...the Episcopal church...because it has ordained gay priests.
Do you think that it is "loving" to let homosexuals think that "gay is okay" when we know that God has condemned it?
We have basically given them the right to go to hell...
You seem to not be able to differentiate or compartmentalize the two? What is it you don't understand about Paul's teaching in 1 Cor 5, or Jesus' teaching throughout the gospels about not being a condemning Pharisee?The Barrd said:
I don't really care what Episcopalians do, if they go against God's word, then they're disobeying God and have to answer for themselves.
God condemns ALL sin, so where do YOU draw the line? Again let me remind you that TRUE Christians do NOT say gay is ok, they also don't keep bringing it up in a paranoid fashion.
That's the whole point about having free will Barrd...people CAN choose, and DO have the right to go to hell. Thankfully, a lot wakeup and smell the coffee of Jesus Christ before it's too late.
Stan, I do not, as a general rule, go around condemning gays, or anyone else, for that matter.StanJ said:
However, in this thread, I got drawn into such a debate with someone who seems to think that for Christians to cry out against the recent trend toward homosexuality is a bad thing.
I disagree. I do not want my children or grandchildren being taught that homosexuality is natural and normal, or that it is perfectly fine for a kid to grow up with two dads or two moms.
Homosexuality is a PERVERSION of the natural sex drive, just like any other PERVERSION. I do not know why our society is suddenly not only accepting, but encouraging it, and I do not know why there suddenly seem to be so many homosexuals "coming out"...but I do know that it is an abomination in the eyes of God.
I can't think of one other sexual perversion that Christians would advocate "tolerance" for. Would you want your kids to be taught that prostitution was normal, and that they should tolerate hookers? What about rapists? No? Okay, what about "furries"...you know...the kind of people who give a new meaning to the term "animal lover"? All of these perversions happen in the United States, don't they? Why should we not also embrace them? Shouldn't they, also, have the same democratic rights as everyone else? Why would we arrest someone for having sex with her dog? What about NAMBLA? Evidently, the men and boys involved in these relationships are loving, happy couples...why do we interfere with them? Why don't we give them the same democratic rights as gays? There are exceptions made for young girls who want to marry older men, even for underage girls, aren't there? Why not for young boys?
I don't know, Stan, I truly do not.
I agree with you that we ought not to vilify gays. But we ought not to encourage them, either.
Yes, Jesus did love sinners...He loved the woman who was taken in adultery, didn't He? But what did He tell her? "You have a democratic right to sleep with anyone you want to sleep with. Don't let those haters bother you, you just live your own life the way you see fit."
NO! He said no such thing, and you know it.
He told her to "sin no more."
If we truly want our gblt friends to wake up and smell Jesus' coffee, we need to tell them the same thing...
How nice of you.StanJ said:
Did you know that there is also a homosexual movement in the Pentecostal church?
Don't think so?
http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/discovering-gay-pentecostals-and-buying-a-pink-bible-kvc/
It's everywhere, my friend. Yes, even in your church.
Now what?
Marcus O'Reillius
Active Member
It's not paranoid when it's pervasive. There is a wholesale assault upon Christianity and sadly enough, there are those within the Church who are part of it because they accept the sin when they include the sinner.StanJ said:
What worries me is that some churches are even ordaining homosexuals. We have homosexual priests and pastors, and homosexual Sunday School teachers, Deacons and Elders...Marcus O'Reillius said:
Scary thought, isn't it?
Could you help me out and explain how and why you came to think I'm not a Christian? 'Cause I'm baffled. :blink:The Barrd said:
That's a completely different legal issue. Notice the guy doesn't ask for a simple wedding cake like in the cases with the Christian bakeries, instead the guy asks for specific pro-gay writing on the cake. Legally, there's a big difference between going into a bakery and saying "We'd like wedding cake #4 from your catalog" and "I'd like a special cake with specific writing on it". The former is asking for the same product as everyone else, whereas the latter is asking the baker to engage in very specific speech.blessedhope said:This is a good one How many times has RF said this would happen? Double Standard PC liberal media.
Story here: http://www.gopusa.com/freshink/2015...-to-bake-cakes-for-gay-weddings/?subscriber=1
Muslim bakeries in Michigan refused to bake cakes for gay weddings. You would think that would be news like Memories Pizza refusing to cater gay weddings. Nope, Muslims are part of the liberal media protected class.
If Muslims want to follow their own religious beliefs and not bake cakes for gay weddings, you don't hear any big outcry of 'homophobia.' Instead, these Muslim bakeries in Michigan are given a pass to practice their religion as they see fit, unlike Christians.
This isn't any different than the Christian t-shirt shop owner who wouldn't make shirts with pro-gay messages on them. The courts sided with the Christian owner, finding that he has a right not to engage in specific speech that conflicts with his religious beliefs.
Marcus O'Reillius
Active Member
River Jordan, on 06 Nov 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:
Could you help me out and explain how and why you came to think I'm not a Christian? 'Cause I'm baffled. :blink:
Well, you've been advocating sin. You have championed an evil world trying to make a Constitutional legal argument on a Christian forum that is dedicated to eschatology. When people raised an objection to the inclusion of sinful behavior in the Church, you called them hateful jerks. You've even done another thing we're not to do in loving one another by judging their heart, which is something only God can do.
I don't know if you're Christian or not; I just know what you are a proponent for is not Christian at all.
Could you help me out and explain how and why you came to think I'm not a Christian? 'Cause I'm baffled. :blink:
Well, you've been advocating sin. You have championed an evil world trying to make a Constitutional legal argument on a Christian forum that is dedicated to eschatology. When people raised an objection to the inclusion of sinful behavior in the Church, you called them hateful jerks. You've even done another thing we're not to do in loving one another by judging their heart, which is something only God can do.
I don't know if you're Christian or not; I just know what you are a proponent for is not Christian at all.
Marcus,
I didn't ask you, and nothing you've said about me is true. I'd appreciate it if you'd let Barrd answer her own questions.
I didn't ask you, and nothing you've said about me is true. I'd appreciate it if you'd let Barrd answer her own questions.
Marcus O'Reillius
Active Member
Marcus O'Reillius
Active Member
And nothing you've said about me is true either, which didn't stop you - and I don't know what I said is untrue - that IS what I've gotten out from reading your posts though.
Didn't you say that you were not a Christian? Or did I misunderstand you?River Jordan said:
If I misunderstood you, I offer my most abject apology.
As it happens, I agree with Marcus. When you champion a sinful cause such as homosexuality, of course Christians are going to question your motives.River Jordan said:
As he said, it is a public forum. And you did ask. If you wanted to have a private conversation with me, you could have PMd me...I would have answered you.
I do not understand at all why you are promoting gay marriage if you are a Christian.
Love them, yes. But don't encourage them in their sin.
If you truly love these people, you will tell them the truth...they are unrepentant sinners, headed for an eternal hell.
No, you don't have to be hateful about it, nobody is saying that.
But, fapeetesakes, don't encourage them!
As I said, I like you. You are intelligent, and funny, and you do seem very sweet. I think you are just misguided here. Too many "Christians" seem willing to tolerate this sin, and we can not do that. Don't you know that, to be a friend of the world is to be an enemy of God?
Do you wish to be found fighting against God?
It is not me, or Marcus, or any other Christian who has said that homosexuality is an abomination...it is God, Himself.
You take umbrage with Christians who are "over the top" hateful, and rightly so.
You think it is wrong for a Christian business owner to refuse to serve gays. The law says that you are right.
But God says that you are wrong....
Will you criticize God when He refuses to serve gays, and says instead, to throw them into the Lake of Fire?
No, I didn't say I wasn't a Christian. You said you didn't expect to see me in heaven, and I responded "Gee, how nice of you. Now I'm not even a Christian. And for what....that I don't believe gays should be singled out among all the other sinners? Unbelievable." I thought that was pretty clear.The Barrd said:
What exactly do you see as "championing a cause"?
Like I said, I'm getting the impression that you haven't really been reading my posts. I don't know how many more times I have to repeat myself, but I've gotten to the point where I've pretty much concluded that there's something else going on here besides me not making myself clear.
So, if Butch and Jake come in and just want a generic wedding cake, I have to bake it for them.River Jordan said:
But what if they want their names on the cake?
Wasn't there a pair of lesbians that wanted their names piped on their cake?
Yes, they have a right to public accommodation just like you.The Barrd said:
I don't think names are considered a form of speech in the same way as something like "gay pride" on a t-shirt is.
I don't know.
So, let me get this straight.
Christians should not practice their faith in their places of business, because man's government says we should not.
Because we find ourselves in a nation that practices something called "democracy", we must respect that government's decisions, even if they are in direct conflict with the laws of our God.
Because we live side by side with other religious beliefs that are patently false, because we know that there is only ONE God, and that is the God of Christianity, we must respect those beliefs, even when they are in direct conflict with our own God, and we must tolerate them.
Because the world is fraught with danger, we must therefore add another known danger to the list, even though it is easily preventable, because we must tolerate what we know is perversion, even though we know that it spreads a deadly disease.
Is that basically what we are being told, here?
I'm sorry, but that will not work for me, or for many other Christians who insist that they will be loyal to our God first, and our government second.
God says I may not encourage sin. Therefore, I find that I am constrained from this "tolerance" that River and a couple of others in this thread seem to be preaching.
That does not mean that I am being "hateful" or "vilifying gays", or even that I am singling them out above all other sin. It simply means that I may not participate in their sin, nor encourage others to do so. It means that I must call this sin just what it is...a sin. It is a sexual PERVERSION, it is not normal and it is not natural.
And our government had no business legalizing it.
It doesn't matter at all what the law is in this case, because, as a Christian, I must obey God, rather than man.
I am to feed a gay person if he is hungry. I am to clothe him if he is naked. I am to visit him if he is sick or in prison. I am to lend to him if he asks me and expect nothing in return. I am to love him as Christ also loves him.
But I may not aid him in his sin, nor approve of it, nor give place to it in my life or in my church.
Christians should not practice their faith in their places of business, because man's government says we should not.
Because we find ourselves in a nation that practices something called "democracy", we must respect that government's decisions, even if they are in direct conflict with the laws of our God.
Because we live side by side with other religious beliefs that are patently false, because we know that there is only ONE God, and that is the God of Christianity, we must respect those beliefs, even when they are in direct conflict with our own God, and we must tolerate them.
Because the world is fraught with danger, we must therefore add another known danger to the list, even though it is easily preventable, because we must tolerate what we know is perversion, even though we know that it spreads a deadly disease.
Is that basically what we are being told, here?
I'm sorry, but that will not work for me, or for many other Christians who insist that they will be loyal to our God first, and our government second.
God says I may not encourage sin. Therefore, I find that I am constrained from this "tolerance" that River and a couple of others in this thread seem to be preaching.
That does not mean that I am being "hateful" or "vilifying gays", or even that I am singling them out above all other sin. It simply means that I may not participate in their sin, nor encourage others to do so. It means that I must call this sin just what it is...a sin. It is a sexual PERVERSION, it is not normal and it is not natural.
And our government had no business legalizing it.
It doesn't matter at all what the law is in this case, because, as a Christian, I must obey God, rather than man.
I am to feed a gay person if he is hungry. I am to clothe him if he is naked. I am to visit him if he is sick or in prison. I am to lend to him if he asks me and expect nothing in return. I am to love him as Christ also loves him.
But I may not aid him in his sin, nor approve of it, nor give place to it in my life or in my church.
Interesting phrasing. I can do that too...
Gays should not expect to be able to go into public places of business and be treated like any other citizen, because this country is a Christian theocracy, and Christianity teaches that being gay is a special sin, unlike any other. Because of that, a key tenet of Christianity is to treat gays like second class citizens, and because the US is a Christian theocracy, gays must learn to accept their second-class status.
Is that basically what you're saying here?
Gays should not expect to be able to go into public places of business and be treated like any other citizen, because this country is a Christian theocracy, and Christianity teaches that being gay is a special sin, unlike any other. Because of that, a key tenet of Christianity is to treat gays like second class citizens, and because the US is a Christian theocracy, gays must learn to accept their second-class status.
Is that basically what you're saying here?
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