Archaeological proof of Christ's AD 70 bodily return

[David in NJ]

Preterists are absolutely convinced that "the coming of the Lord has drawn near" in the time that James 5 was written. "Behold, the judge standeth before the door" was a clear indication that the Lord's hand was "on the doorknob", as it were, before He bodily returned in those days when James was writing.

And this is why preterism is another falsehood.

 

[3 Resurrections]

And this is why preterism is another falsehood.

It's rather simple language which James 5 used about the coming of the Lord having already drawn near in those first-century days. Only the experts try to complicate the language into something far-distant from those first-century times.

But this second coming being fulfilled already doesn't eliminate Christ's plans for yet another coming in our future. You won't miss a thing by this, except for not having to pass through the disasters listed in Revelation. Why anybody would long to experience those tragedies when John told us that they were for his own "at hand' generation to experience is beyond me. It's downright masochistic.

 

[PinSeeker]

God established a literal 1,000 years in Genesis.

Hmmmm... <smile> Well, I'm not disputing that, per se, but I might be somewhat interested in what you think the justification for such an assertion would be. As far as I know, the word "thousand" only appears a couple of times in Genesis, and neither one has anything to do with years. Maybe that's not really what you are referring to... I'm certainly with you on preterism, though.

Therefore it only causes confusion when we argue against that which God has determined.

I'm not arguing with anyone, David, or "against" anything, much less God's inerrant and infallible Word, which, of course, stands/endures forever.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[David in NJ]

It's rather simple language which James 5 used about the coming of the Lord having already drawn near in those first-century days. Only the experts try to complicate the language into something far-distant from those first-century times.

But this second coming being fulfilled already doesn't eliminate Christ's plans for yet another coming in our future. You won't miss a thing by this, except for not having to pass through the disasters listed in Revelation. Why anybody would long to experience those tragedies when John told us that they were for his own "at hand' generation to experience is beyond me. It's downright masochistic.

It was an essential part of God's Plan for the apostles to assume that the Lord's Second Coming was near.

 

[PinSeeker]

It was an essential part of God's Plan for the apostles to assume that the Lord's Second Coming was near.

Hmmmm, "near," and "soon," and "a little while"... Such a troublesome (to men) terms/concepts... Not that God causes confusion or discord, because He certainly does not, but yeah, those things... nearness/soon-ness, a little while (with regard to time)... to God are very different than what we understand about the nearness of something... In God's view. all times are near simultaneously. Which is what Peter is saying in 2 Peter 3. So it may seem to us that God is tarrying, but that's certainly not the case. This is pretty much what I have been saying to 3R. I do think, though, that it's very possible that even the apostles didn't understand this fully, and we really kind of can't, finite beings that we are.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[David in NJ]

Hmmmm, "near." Such a troublesome (to men) term/concept... Not that God causes confusion or discord, because He does not, but yeah, nearness (with regard to time) to God is very different than what we understand about the nearness of something... In God's view. all times are near simultaneously. So it may seem to us that God is tarrying, but that's certainly not the case. This is pretty much what I have been saying to 3R.

Grace and peace to you.

Excellent post - thank you

 

[Muna]

I suppose that wasn't so much that the author of the fourth gospel was being dismissive or neglectful in not mentioning John the Apostle as being the son of Zebedee. That was probably more of a protective measure to keep his references to the Apostle John rather vague, seeing that the Jewish leadership was out for blood during those days of the early church. After all, Christ had said that both sons of Zebedee were going to be martyred by their "drinking the same cup" that He Himself would drink. Nobody knew better than the author of the fourth gospel, (who was 'known unto the high priest") just how vindictive they could be. This disciple whom Jesus loved knew much about the Sanhedrin's plots to have Jesus killed and to persecute anyone who was His Apostle. It's almost like the beloved disciple was a "fly on the wall" and could hear their conversation and plans to kill Christ while in their council sessions.

Think about it, the only gospel that the name of John (one of the twelve disciples of Jesus) who saw his glory on the mount and ate the passover with Jesus (with the other eleven) John himself being one of the twelve there (as well as Judas, one of the twelve then present) would really have to lose their place at the table to imagine that Lazarus is there with them as the one leaning back on Jesus because he was at a table in Bethany days earlier. The book of John neglects the name of John while calling himself that one Jesus loved (as if he was at the passover with the twelves) when we know Lazarus is not named as being one of the twelve.

Not to mention, even as you noted that they (the Jewish religious establishment) wanted to put Lazarus to death also because many of the people believed on Jesus because of him, and so if it were Lazarus, then why wouldnt they take that opportunity to do so when he went in and out among them?

Anyhoo, like I said, I used to do this, dig to find what might be here or there, hoping to find "something" which in the end I could do nothing much with anyway. It needs too much speculation.

 

[Lambano]

It wasn't John the Apostle, son of Zebedee that was being spoken of in these texts. It was "the disciple whom Jesus loved", who Scripture distinguishes as being a different man than John the son of Zebedee.

The only reason why this John 21:24 verse can claim so confidently that "we KNOW that his testimony is true" is that the record of this gospel was produced by a glorified, resurrected person who was incapable of giving a false account by any means whatever. No resurrected person can be mistaken, or tell a lie, or be led astray by any means. They are in a perfected state of righteousness, and can be trusted completely as to their testimony. The same comment is also given in 3 John 12. "Yea, and we also bear record; and ye know that our record is true." Hands down, no doubt whatsoever, "the disciple whom Jesus loved" / aka the beloved Lazarus / aka John Eleazar could be trusted implicitly to tell the truth.

Ooo, I hadn't heard that one before. Another weird critter for my menagerie.

 

[Scott Downey]

It wasn't John the Apostle, son of Zebedee that was being spoken of in these texts. It was "the disciple whom Jesus loved", who Scripture distinguishes as being a different man than John the son of Zebedee.

The only reason why this John 21:24 verse can claim so confidently that "we KNOW that his testimony is true" is that the record of this gospel was produced by a glorified, resurrected person who was incapable of giving a false account by any means whatever. No resurrected person can be mistaken, or tell a lie, or be led astray by any means. They are in a perfected state of righteousness, and can be trusted completely as to their testimony. The same comment is also given in 3 John 12. "Yea, and we also bear record; and ye know that our record is true." Hands down, no doubt whatsoever, "the disciple whom Jesus loved" / aka the beloved Lazarus / aka John Eleazar could be trusted implicitly to tell the truth.

There are no glorified believers on earth, and never were.
Our citizenship is in heaven and that is where is also our glorified bodies and inheritance is found, not on earth, no written testimony is coming from a glorified person on the earth.

Everyone should note and ignore this fellow as this is false teaching, the things he is saying.

Philippians 3
20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.

The reason people can confidently know something is true is they have this as a gift from God,

1 John 2:26-28
New King James Version
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to [a]deceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

28 And now, little children, abide in Him, that [c]when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The fact that some have such wildly divergent views shows they do not have this anointing from God to know the truth.
And are just the blind leading the blind and people who follow them fall into the pit.

 

[Scott Downey]

1 Peter 1

A Heavenly Inheritance​

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance [b]incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[PinSeeker]

There are no glorified believers on earth, and never were.

But there will be, right, Scott? One great day, that's all there will be... Of course then, our faith will be sight. Lord, haste the day...

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Then you are calling Christ Jesus a liar in Matthew 16:27-28 when He promised that He would return in the glory of His Father with the angels, to give rewards to everyone according to their works, and while some of those standing in front of Him at that moment were still remaining alive to see that happen. I believe Jesus - not how I was taught from infancy. And I am perfectly willing to be considered a fool for Christ's sake. I'm in good company.

In Matthew 16:28 Jesus refers to His transfiguration which is described immediately following that verse. That gave some of the disciples standing there (Peter, James and John) a preview of the Son of Man coming in His Father's glory when He will come with His angels and reward everyone according to what they have done, as portrayed in Matthew 25:31-46. That has definitely not yet happened.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The "disciple whom Jesus loved" was Lazarus. Lazarus was bodily resurrected to an immortal and incorruptible condition by Christ in the gospel attributed to John.

This is ludicrous. You really need to stop and ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7). If Lazarus was bodily resurrected with an immortal and incorruptible body, then it wouldn't be true that Jesus Christ Himself was the first to be resurrected with an immortal and incorruptible body, but that is what scripture teaches. Lazarus was resurrected with the same mortal body he had when he died.

Acts 26:23 that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.”

Paul said that Christ was the first to rise from the dead. But, you say Lazarus was. If you had any discernment at all, you would know that the context is of Jesus being the first to rise from the dead with an immortal body. He was the first and then at His future coming the dead who belong to Him will also be resurrected and will be changed to have immortal bodies (1 Cor 15:22-23,50-54).

Nobody dies twice, according to Hebrews 9:27.

You can't be so rigid when interpreting scripture. Sometimes, there are exceptions to the rule. Lazarus did die twice. It's much better to accept that then try to say that Lazarus was the first to rise from the dead with an immortal body while contradicting verses like Acts 26:23 and 1 Corinthians 15:20 in the process.

 

[Scott Downey]

But there will be, right, Scott? One great day, that's all there will be... Of course then, our faith will be sight. Lord, haste the day...

Grace and peace to you.

There will be a new earth.
God makes the earth to be inhabited.

Revelation 5:9-11​

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New King James Version​

​

​

9 And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10 And have made [a]us kings[b] and priests to our God;
And [c]we shall reign on the earth.”
11 Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands,

Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 5:9-11 - New King James Version

And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth.” Then I...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I have concentrated the better part of 13 years to studying and praying about the subject of the resurrection as presented in Scripture. Hence my username of "3 Resurrections".

Well, you need to pray harder or something because your beliefs right now are far from the truth. If there were 3 resurrections, as you believe, then Paul clearly knew of no such thing or else he would have written about that in 1 Corinthians 15:22-23. But, instead, he only wrote of Christ's resurrection as being the first and then next in order is the resurrection of the dead who belong to Christ when He comes again. That's it. You have to add to scripture in order to invent a third resurrection.

 

[3 Resurrections]

In Matthew 16:28 Jesus refers to His transfiguration which is described immediately following that verse. That gave some of the disciples standing there (Peter, James and John) a preview of the Son of Man coming in His Father's glory when He will come with His angels and reward everyone according to what they have done, as portrayed in Matthew 25:31-46.

No, the mount of transfiguration was not a "preview" of Christ's return. We are told the subject which Elijah and Moses were speaking with Christ about. "Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he was about to accomplish at Jerusalem." (Luke 9:31). There was no preview of angels, nor any preview of rewards being given to all. Nor was there a preview of Christ returning, because He never left the planet on that occasion. You are using the typical dodge to get around the simple language given to us in Matthew 16:27-28, which happens to agree with all the rest of the NT language concerning Christ's first-century return. This has definitely happened. Just because you were not around to be an eye-witness of this is no reason to doubt the testimony of the NT about Christ's first-century bodily return.

. If there were 3 resurrections, as you believe, then Paul clearly knew of no such thing or else he would have written about that in 1 Corinthians 15:22-23. But, instead, he only wrote of Christ's resurrection as being the first and then next in order is the resurrection of the dead who belong to Christ when He comes again. That's it. You have to add to scripture in order to invent a third resurrection.

You forgot 1 Cor. 15:24. THAT is the third coming. "THEN comes the END" when Christ will deliver up the kingdom to God the Father, and when He will have put down all authority and rule and power. We still have governmental and national institutions of power that rule over us today. These won't be needed anymore in the eternal state after the final THIRD resurrection and judgment, for there will no longer be sinners present anymore.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Statement A) There is no physical evidence of alien life from outer space on this planet.

Statement B) There is no physical evidence of dead believers, who died before 70AD, on this planet.

Tell me, would I be delusional if I didn’t believe in space aliens? Where is the archaeological evidence that can show how this thread is nonsense?

There is a lot of SCRIPTURAL evidence to show that this thread is nonsense. No amount of supposed archaeological evidence can change the truth taught in scripture.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, the mount of transfiguration was not a "preview" of Christ's return.

Yes, it absolutely was. He will return in glory and He appeared at His transfiguration in glory. You continue to display your utter lack of discernment with every post you make. Ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7).

We are told the subject which Elijah and Moses were speaking with Christ about. "Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he was about to accomplish at Jerusalem." (Luke 9:31). There was no preview of angels, nor any preview of rewards being given to all. Nor was there a preview of Christ returning, because He never left the planet on that occasion. You are using the typical dodge to get around the simple language given to us in Matthew 16:27-28, which happens to agree with all the rest of the NT language concerning Christ's first-century return. This has definitely happened. Just because you were not around to be an eye-witness of this is no reason to doubt the testimony of the NT about Christ's first-century bodily return.

Christ did not return in the first century. You continue to babble about this made up gibberish that you came up with in your imagination and you should be embarrassed.

You forgot 1 Cor. 15:24. THAT is the third coming. "THEN comes the END" when Christ will deliver up the kingdom to God the Father, and when He will have put down all authority and rule and power.

That is what happens at His SECOND coming, which is referrred to in verse 23. That is when the end comes. At His second coming. Take a step back from this thread and take some time to ask God for wisdom because, right now, you have none.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Keep repeating that fantasy to yourself.

Here is who was at the Last Supper with Jesus:

"Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve." (Mat. 26:20)

"And in the evening he cometh with the twelve." (Mark 14:17)

"And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him." (Luke 22:14)

Your turn.

Show me/us, IN SCRIPTURE, where Lazarus was at the Last Supper.

It's a complete waste of time to debate about something so clear as this. He obviously believes in a lot of fairy tales, including the fairy tale of Lazarus being at The Last Supper (LOL!) having written Revelation (Double LOL!), and there doesn't seem to be much we can do about it. He insists on being deluded by his false preterist beliefs.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Please notice from what you quoted above: the twelve APOSTLES were at the last supper, but it was one of His DISCIPLES, whom he loved, that was leaning on Jesus’s breast at that Last Supper. Lazarus was known far and wide as “He whom thou lovest”. It was Lazarus the disciple, not John the Apostle leaning on Christ at that moment.

LOL. You will go to any length to deny the truth. Only the 12 apostles/disciples of Christ were at the Last Supper and Lazarus was not one of them. What makes you want to believe things that are not taught in scripture? Just an uncontrollable desire to be contrary or what?