ARE BELIEVERS BORN AGAIN WHILE ON EARTH?

[PS95]

Gods judgement against sin= the wages sin pays is death. That is full payment.

God's punishment for the unsaved is eternal death in lake of fire.
His gift of salvation is By His son Jesus which is eternal life.
Your physical death absolutely does not release you from your sins and set you up for resurrection due to sinlessness by death!
That is a LIE. Ro 6 is speaking about being born anew and forgiven/acquitted of our sins in this life.
There is only one way -- that is to have your sins forgiven in Christ's blood at Calvary.
JWS deny that simple precious truth.

 

[PS95]

Amen!

Let me put it this way. To think that Romans 6:7 is talking about physical death is like thinking that Romans 6:2 is talking about physical death, which it clearly is not.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. 5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.

What is the context in this passage? Just look at verses 2, 4 and 6 before reading verse 7. In verse 2, Paul says "we are those who HAVE DIED to sin and don't live in it any longer". He's clearly talking about people who are ALIVE and no longer living in sin. That's undeniable. So, what does that mean? Just keep reading from there. It means for "our old self" to be "crucified with him" so "that we should no longer be slaves to sin". Having a personal relationship with Jesus spiritually means we are His servants rather than being slaves to sin any longer. It doesn't mean we never sin, but it means we desire to serve Jesus rather than sinning against Him like we did before.

So, since Christians "are those who have died to sin" while crucifying our old self and putting on the new self in Christ, anyone who has died to sin has been set free from sin in the sense of no longer being slaves to sin. Scripture says "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" (Philippians 4:13). We can overcome sin with Christ's help. Before putting our faith in Christ and having a relationship with Him, we cannot overcome sin. So, becoming dead to sin in the sense of no longer being slaves to sin and instead submitting ourselves to Christ, we are then set free from sin and the wages of sin which is eternal death (in contrast to God's gift of eternal life - Romans 6:23).

Yes... It's not brain surgery is it? It speaks to your heart because you are a new creature!
Perhaps it is a matter of not being able to understand it since the cross is foolishness to them. The JW leaders are woefully spiritually inept. The mangling of the scriptures is endless. It's a very sad thing to see them teaching anyone. Although, I do believe that they teach an alternate view for themselves only on this one. I will get back to you on that.

It's interesting to note that the Jw bible (NWT) adds words here as is their frequent habit. See difference below-
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. NASB
Romans 6:23 For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord. NWT

There is no reason to add the words "sin pays" as it is not in the Greek. But true to the watchtower- their bible adds words to attempt to reinforce their doctrines. While this change makes no difference to anyone who understands Ro 6- what it does for the JW mind is reinforce how they teach it. - That is, their deaths paid for their own sins so they became righteous/sinless.
Jesus? Nope- not forgiven their sins.
The JW Jesus was only able to pay for Adam's sin, since they were both equal "perfect men". And to a Jw anyone who believes that Jesus was more than just a man like Adam is an antichrist.

 

[Jesus Wept]

Hi Jesus Wept,
It's a great question. This forum has no real rules when it comes to defining a Christian as far as I have noticed. You will find everything taught on here.
It's how JWs word things that messes with the moderators heads IMO. They seem to believe the JWs smooth words over those who know and expose their actual teachings. Mods are in need of discernment IMO or they don't have agreement of what it means to be a Christian.

JWs are allowed to lie IF they feel it protects their organization. It is known by them as theocratic warfare. They only have to tell you the truth if they believe that you are entitled to it.
I do not make things up about JWs. I can document it all. I was raised in it and involved with them for 30 yrs but not baptized as one.
JWs will lie and say that they believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ and they have on this very forum. It's a lie. The Watchtower teaches that Jesus was not divine as was only a perfect man just like Adam was.

• w92 1/15 pp 20-23 --What Do the Scriptures Say About “the Divinity of Christ”?

But JWS do teach that angels have "divine qualities"-
Since they teach Michael the archangel had divine qualities and it' was his "life force" that was put into Mary's ovum- although a life force has NO personality or anything at all--" and since they designate the Word of God as "a god" or divine--
If a JW is not being honest they will say Jesus was divine but that could only be because Michael was an angel with divine qualities before he went out of existence and then again after he was re-created--- after Jesus was crucified.
If that made your head hurt you are not alone. It's deception at every turn.

As to regeneration- You're totally correct there as well. JWs are not born anew and aggressively deny that anyone is ( that is only reserved for a few special Jws) and It appears that @Aunty Jane has just made up her very own definition now which is in the OP.
I am unaware of Jane's new idea ever being taught by JWs, but who knows it could be what is called by them, new light.
@Keiw has refused to address this thread topic yet.

There is much more to know about this religion and there is much more that is un- Christian, but most people simply have no interest other than what they already think they do know about them- much of which isn't totally accurate. It is actually far worse and alien to the scriptures than people realize. That is the reason I joined here, but there is relatively no interest.

Welcome to the forum btw. It's a fast paced environment with endless arguing and every opinion imaginable.

I've had some very interesting conversations with JW's and Mormons over the years. Something I now try to avoid.

Thanks for your input.

Very happy you found the real Jesus.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

ARE BELIEVERS BORN AGAIN WHILE ON EARTH?

Those not getting born again while alive on earth will sadly be going to hell

 

[Keiw]

Hi Jesus Wept,
It's a great question. This forum has no real rules when it comes to defining a Christian as far as I have noticed. You will find everything taught on here.
It's how JWs word things that messes with the moderators heads IMO. They seem to believe the JWs smooth words over those who know and expose their actual teachings. Mods are in need of discernment IMO or they don't have agreement of what it means to be a Christian.

JWs are allowed to lie IF they feel it protects their organization. It is known by them as theocratic warfare. They only have to tell you the truth if they believe that you are entitled to it.
I do not make things up about JWs. I can document it all. I was raised in it and involved with them for 30 yrs but not baptized as one.
JWs will lie and say that they believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ and they have on this very forum. It's a lie. The Watchtower teaches that Jesus was not divine as was only a perfect man just like Adam was.

• w92 1/15 pp 20-23 --What Do the Scriptures Say About “the Divinity of Christ”?

But JWS do teach that angels have "divine qualities"-
Since they teach Michael the archangel had divine qualities and it' was his "life force" that was put into Mary's ovum- although a life force has NO personality or anything at all--" and since they designate the Word of God as "a god" or divine--
If a JW is not being honest they will say Jesus was divine but that could only be because Michael was an angel with divine qualities before he went out of existence and then again after he was re-created--- after Jesus was crucified.
If that made your head hurt you are not alone. It's deception at every turn.

As to regeneration- You're totally correct there as well. JWs are not born anew and aggressively deny that anyone is ( that is only reserved for a few special Jws) and It appears that @Aunty Jane has just made up her very own definition now which is in the OP.
I am unaware of Jane's new idea ever being taught by JWs, but who knows it could be what is called by them, new light.
@Keiw has refused to address this thread topic yet.

There is much more to know about this religion and there is much more that is un- Christian, but most people simply have no interest other than what they already think they do know about them- much of which isn't totally accurate. It is actually far worse and alien to the scriptures than people realize. That is the reason I joined here, but there is relatively no interest.

Welcome to the forum btw. It's a fast paced environment with endless arguing and every opinion imaginable.

Your post is false. JW,s are NEVER allowed to lie. You cant prove a single word a JW shares as error.

 

[Keiw]

God's punishment for the unsaved is eternal death in lake of fire.
His gift of salvation is By His son Jesus which is eternal life.
Your physical death absolutely does not release you from your sins and set you up for resurrection due to sinlessness by death!
That is a LIE. Ro 6 is speaking about being born anew and forgiven/acquitted of our sins in this life.
There is only one way -- that is to have your sins forgiven in Christ's blood at Calvary.
JWS deny that simple precious truth.

The lake of fire=2nd death) occurs after the resurrection. These believe like you do( Matt 7:21-23) yet will hear those words as judgement.

 

[PS95]

Your post is false. JW,s are NEVER allowed to lie. You cant prove a single word a JW shares as error.

Keiw, my post is not false. I will say that I have not see you use theocratic warfare on me. Thank you. I sure have seen Aunty Jane employ it on here! I have seen family members use it also. It's usually an evasiveness or diverting the topic, or flat out denying something they know is true in order to protect the organization. Unfortunately, JWs see us Christians as their foes who will all die at Armageddon.
It is, and has been used in all of the court cases involving pedophilia by WT lawyers. Same is true with the shunning policy. And it has been used by the WT multiple times- one time was the UN fiasco. A library card was a lie-That has been proven. Malawi is another example. There are just too many to list.Here are the WT's own words- I'm sure you've seen these-

"We must tell the truth to one who is entitled to know, but if one is not so entitled we may be evasive. ... As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise added caution when dealing with God's foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God's cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God's enemies." Watchtower 1960 Jun 1 pp.351-352

"Of course, being truthful does not mean that we are obligated to divulge all information to anyone who asks it of us. For example, individuals with wicked intent may have no right to know certain things. Christians understand that they are living in a hostile world. Thus, Jesus advised his disciples to be cautious as serpents while remaining innocent as doves. ( Matthew 10:16; John 15:19) Jesus did not always disclose the full truth, especially when revealing all the facts could have brought unnecessary harm to himself or his disciples. Still, even at such times, he did not lie. Instead, he chose either to say nothing or to divert the conversation in another direction." Awake! 2000 Feb 8 p.21

"From time to time letters are received asking whether a certain circumstance would justify making an exception to the Christian’s obligation to tell the truth. In reply to these the following is given: God’s Word commands: “Speak truth each of you with his neighbor.” ...
There is one exception, however, that the Christian must ever bear in mind. As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise added caution when dealing with God’s foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God’s cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God’s enemies. Watchtower 1960 Jun 1 pp.351,352 Questions From Readers

"So when the apostle Peter used his sword against the slave of the high priest, Jesus told him: “Return your sword to its place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword.” (Matthew 26:52, 53; John 18:10, 11) Jesus thus made it plain that theocratic warfare from that time on was not to include the use of carnal weapons." Watchtower 1983 Jul 15 p.19

"Today God’s servants are engaged in a warfare, a spiritual, theocratic warfare, a warfare ordered by God against wicked spirit forces and against false teachings. God’s servants are sent forth as sheep among wolves and therefore need to exercise the extreme caution of serpents so as to protect properly the interests of God’s kingdom committed to them. At all times they must be very careful not to divulge any information to the enemy that he could use to hamper the preaching work." Watchtower 1957 May 1 p.286

 

[PS95]

The lake of fire=2nd death) occurs after the resurrection. These believe like you do( Matt 7:21-23) yet will hear those words as judgement.

Because I tell you that your physical death does not make you sinless? This is just too sad to me. I really wish you had it within you to stop believing those who are not being honest with you. You see me as your enemy and the funny thing is, I am your closet friend at this moment. I am speaking the truth in love to you. Only the blood of Jesus can cleanse your sins. Your physical death does nothing to wipe away your sins. You need forgiveness and Jesus offers you that. You have to believe Him and fully rely on Him. This is the beginning of knowing Him. By foregoing His gift - it makes you not trusting what He did. Do you understand the seriousness of that?

Please stop with your matt 7 quote. It points right at the Watchtower. How can you be so hoodwinked by them?

15“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes, nor figs from thistles, are they? 17So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20So then, you will ]know them by their fruits.21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles? And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you- Leave me, you who practice lawlessness.'

 

[Keiw]

Keiw, my post is not false. I will say that I have not see you use theocratic warfare on me. Thank you. I sure have seen Aunty Jane employ it on here! I have seen family members use it also. It's usually an evasiveness or diverting the topic, or flat out denying something they know is true in order to protect the organization. Unfortunately, JWs see us Christians as their foes who will all die at Armageddon.
It is, and has been used in all of the court cases involving pedophilia by WT lawyers. Same is true with the shunning policy. And it has been used by the WT multiple times- one time was the UN fiasco. A library card was a lie-That has been proven. Malawi is another example. There are just too many to list.Here are the WT's own words- I'm sure you've seen these-

"We must tell the truth to one who is entitled to know, but if one is not so entitled we may be evasive. ... As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise added caution when dealing with God's foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God's cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God's enemies." Watchtower 1960 Jun 1 pp.351-352

"Of course, being truthful does not mean that we are obligated to divulge all information to anyone who asks it of us. For example, individuals with wicked intent may have no right to know certain things. Christians understand that they are living in a hostile world. Thus, Jesus advised his disciples to be cautious as serpents while remaining innocent as doves. ( Matthew 10:16; John 15:19) Jesus did not always disclose the full truth, especially when revealing all the facts could have brought unnecessary harm to himself or his disciples. Still, even at such times, he did not lie. Instead, he chose either to say nothing or to divert the conversation in another direction." Awake! 2000 Feb 8 p.21

"From time to time letters are received asking whether a certain circumstance would justify making an exception to the Christian’s obligation to tell the truth. In reply to these the following is given: God’s Word commands: “Speak truth each of you with his neighbor.” ...
There is one exception, however, that the Christian must ever bear in mind. As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise added caution when dealing with God’s foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God’s cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God’s enemies. Watchtower 1960 Jun 1 pp.351,352 Questions From Readers

"So when the apostle Peter used his sword against the slave of the high priest, Jesus told him: “Return your sword to its place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword.” (Matthew 26:52, 53; John 18:10, 11) Jesus thus made it plain that theocratic warfare from that time on was not to include the use of carnal weapons." Watchtower 1983 Jul 15 p.19

"Today God’s servants are engaged in a warfare, a spiritual, theocratic warfare, a warfare ordered by God against wicked spirit forces and against false teachings. God’s servants are sent forth as sheep among wolves and therefore need to exercise the extreme caution of serpents so as to protect properly the interests of God’s kingdom committed to them. At all times they must be very careful not to divulge any information to the enemy that he could use to hamper the preaching work." Watchtower 1957 May 1 p.286

We don't see you as foes. We donate our time at our own expense trying to bring the good news of Gods coming kingdom to all on Earth= potential brothers and sisters in Christ. That is how we view all mortals. Instead we could choose to go to the beach, or golfing, or shopping but we put our God and his son and fellow man-first above ourselves. Thats called LOVE. You seem to have it twisted.

 

[Keiw]

Because I tell you that your physical death does not make you sinless? This is just too sad to me. I really wish you had it within you to stop believing those who are not being honest with you. You see me as your enemy and the funny thing is, I am your closet friend at this moment. I am speaking the truth in love to you. Only the blood of Jesus can cleanse your sins. Your physical death does nothing to wipe away your sins. You need forgiveness and Jesus offers you that. You have to believe Him and fully rely on Him. This is the beginning of knowing Him. By foregoing His gift - it makes you not trusting what He did. Do you understand the seriousness of that?

please stop with the matt 7 quote. It points right at the Watchtower. How can you be so hoodwinked by them?

15“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16You will [p]know them by their fruits. [q]Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes, nor figs from thistles, are they? 17So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20So then, you will [r]know them by their fruits.21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many Matthew 7 New American Standard Biblemiracles?’ 23And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; LEAVE ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

But since you stand 100% in opposition to Jehovah and his people, its you who have made yourself a foe.

 

[PS95]

We don't see you as foes. We donate our time at our own expense trying to bring the good news of Gods coming kingdom to all on Earth= potential brothers and sisters in Christ. That is how we view all mortals. Instead we could choose to go to the beach, or golfing, or shopping but we put our God and his son and fellow man-first above ourselves. Thats called LOVE. You seem to have it twisted.

You see us as antichrists. Is that not a foe? I know you try to convert us. And we try to covert you not to a religion-- but to Christ Himself for forgiveness of sins and a new birth.
JWs don't teach that we can be IN Christ. Is that new light, Keiw? It was always in union with as in same purpose. Has it changed? you can not be in Christ without the new birth.
I just wish you could see how the WT great crowd teaching is wrong. It's wrong as can be.

 

[PS95]

But since you stand 100% in opposition to Jehovah and his people, its you who have made yourself a foe.

That's the thing. I am not in opposition to Jehovah & Jesus. Don't say that. Nor I do not oppose JWs as people- I have a whole family of Jws whom I love. I oppose the non-truths that the Watchtower teaches. I wish that you could discern the difference. Because JWs don't therein lies the problem. I hate how the WT men have a hold on you because of the wrong things they teach you.
It's actually very sad and disturbing to see how you can read verses clear as day, and deny them because the WT says so. I have been there, Keiw. I know what it's like to think that they have some divine connection to God so I must obey them. It's a stranglehold. It is not true.
I wish it was true actually in a way, because it makes life a lot easier.. but it isn't true. If I didn't care about JWs I would not be here. If I didn't care about my family I would not be shunned. I'm shunned because I dared to show them scriptures that deny what the WT teaches and so I am seen as a threat. A bible isn't a threat. But as soon as I show them why the WT teaching opposes the scriptures suddenly I became their enemy. That's what is sad. I think that the truth of God is what we all want. At least I do. I think you do too.

 

[PS95]

This post is for all JWS here @Keiw @TheHC @ElieG12 @Aunty Jane


Aunty Jane,
That is very mistaken. A believer is born again on earth. Do not marvel at this! Allow me to provide the verses that will show you ~~ Take your time and go over them.

1 John 5:1- Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.​

John 1:12-13-But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

1 Peter 1:3 -Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Peter 1:23 for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.

1 John 4:7- Beloved, let’s love one another; for love is from God, and everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

Titus 3:5- He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

1 John 5:18- We know that no one who has been born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

John 3:4-8, 10-12 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6“That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7“Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8“The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
“Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11“Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony. 12“If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

1 Cor 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

2 Cor 5:17- Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

Eph 2:4-5- But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Romans 6:3-4 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

Col 2:13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,

1 Cor 6:11 -Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Ro 8:15-16- For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons and daughters by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,


There are many more. There is no such thing as a Christian who isn't born again. The title, Born Again Christian is redundant. It's not a special thing just for the 144K as you have been taught. It is essential to being a new creation- otherwise we are simply just carnal flesh. We can not please God in our flesh. It is by His spirit that He saves us. It is the only way.

I know that JWs don't do this but it is what is needed by all--

Step one-- is to truly accept the forgiveness of your sins that only Jesus provides by paying for your personal sins at Calvary.
There is no other way. There is no such thing as paying your own sin debt off by dying physically. That is not forgiveness- it is not a debt that you can pay to become sinless. Death of sinners is getting what is deserved.- the pay that you receive.
ONLY Jesus' sinless death atones for all of our sins but you must believe that.
The gift is not like that- no one deserves this gift- it is undeserved kindness aka grace.
It is given, but you must humble yourself enough to accept God's gift. That is believing God.
I know it is hard after what you have been taught!! But this is THE TRUTH. Test it with scripture and see.

Luke 11:13--“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”

If you would like a very long list of scriptures that teach that Jesus' death paid for your personal sins I am happy to provide it for you. Just say the word.





**Original post by Aunt Jane was from here-

Will you go to heaven when you die? - (or the other place)

I look forward to a GRAND reunion with them. Your religion........that is based on your Gospel of Universalism.......denies that you have to be born again on earth.... as It omits this.. completely. You might be interested to know that Aunte Jane's JW cult, also omits being born again, on...

www.christianityboard.com

@Aunty Jane . Would you care to clear this up?

 

[Keiw]

You see us as antichrists. Is that not a foe? I know you try to convert us. And we try to covert you not to a religion-- but to Christ Himself for forgiveness of sins and a new birth.
JWs don't teach that we can be IN Christ. Is that new light, Keiw? It was always in union with as in same purpose. Has it changed? you can not be in Christ without the new birth.
I just wish you could see how the WT great crowd teaching is wrong. It's wrong as can be.

No we see that over 99% are being mislead and that Jesus started the work to try to help ones like that( Luke 10--Acts 20:20)--If one rejects God and his truth, they make themselves-antichrist. Jesus started his 1 religion( 1 Cor 1:10)= unified in thought( all of Gods 1 truth) no division)--taking the lead are these-Matt 24:45= appointed by Jesus. One must be taught by these or remain in darkness.

 

[Keiw]

That's the thing. I am not in opposition to Jehovah & Jesus. Don't say that. Nor I do not oppose JWs as people- I have a whole family of Jws whom I love. I oppose the non-truths that the Watchtower teaches. I wish that you could discern the difference. Because JWs don't therein lies the problem. I hate how the WT men have a hold on you because of the wrong things they teach you.
It's actually very sad and disturbing to see how you can read verses clear as day, and deny them because the WT says so. I have been there, Keiw. I know what it's like to think that they have some divine connection to God so I must obey them. It's a stranglehold. It is not true.
I wish it was true actually in a way, because it makes life a lot easier.. but it isn't true. If I didn't care about JWs I would not be here. If I didn't care about my family I would not be shunned. I'm shunned because I dared to show them scriptures that deny what the WT teaches and so I am seen as a threat. A bible isn't a threat. But as soon as I show them why the WT teaching opposes the scriptures suddenly I became their enemy. That's what is sad. I think that the truth of God is what we all want. At least I do. I think you do too.

You are mistaken. Jesus heads the JW religion, it contains Gods truth.
You or any other mortal on Earth cannot prove a single teaching by them as error.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

@Aunty Jane . Would you care to clear this up?

Those belonging to cults aren't able to "clear anything up"

 

[PS95]

You are mistaken. Jesus heads the JW religion, it contains Gods truth.
You or any other mortal on Earth cannot prove a single teaching by them as error.

Keiw, I fully know that you believe that to be so. The reason I am patient with you is because I can understand how you think. The problem is, many JW teachings are not based on basic scriptural truth and is based on cherry picked verses with a whole lotta teachings of man stringing things together that the scriptures plainly show should not be connected.
You are not a dumb person and neither are most JWs, but this is very clear to all who can read the scriptures. Many of these are letters and need to be kept in context to be correct, and simply do not mean what you have been told. It only PROVES that you are upholding teachings of man above what the bible actually says.
That's not something that you have willed to do. It is something that can happen to anyone once we give them a position of authority like a pope. And yes that is what JWS do. It is the same thing! They are men and only men and they make mistakes and they have an awful lot wrong. Do they have some things right? Sure.
The things that they have wrong are very wrong and very dangerous. I know your mindset, and I am not speaking about the trinity or hellfire. I am speaking to about other things. You worry me. You will take what those men say OVER WHAT IT REALLY SAYS. That is what JWS do and you think you must do that or you are disobeying Jehovah. That is WRONG. In your minds you are equating those men with Jehovah. That's very dangerous - Keiw- they have proven to be false time and time again. I am not saying to hate them but I am saying to stop idolizing them as if they were prophets sent from God. They are not.
I know that as long as you have that mindset- that nothing I ever say will matter to you and nothing I ever show you in the bible will help you. You have got to let your own God given mind be allowed to work. It is NOT easy. You will hear those WT false teachings over and over in your head because you have had them beaten into your brain via rote learning and fear. It is a tactic used not by God but by man.
If you were only willing to put things to the test using all of scriptures and not just the verses you have been sold. There is much more to the bible than the verses you recite over and over!!

 

[Keiw]

Keiw, I fully know that you believe that to be so. The reason I am patient with you is because I can understand how you think. The problem is, many JW teachings are not based on basic scriptural truth and is based on cherry picked verses with a whole lotta teachings of man stringing things together that the scriptures plainly show should not be connected.
You are not a dumb person and neither are most JWs, but this is very clear to all who can read the scriptures. Many of these are letters and need to be kept in context to be correct, and simply do not mean what you have been told. It only PROVES that you are upholding teachings of man above what the bible actually says.
That's not something that you have willed to do. It is something that can happen to anyone once we give them a position of authority like a pope. And yes that is what JWS do. It is the same thing! They are men and only men and they make mistakes and they have an awful lot wrong. Do they have some things right? Sure.
The things that they have wrong are very wrong and very dangerous. I know your mindset, and I am not speaking about the trinity or hellfire. I am speaking to about other things. You worry me. You will take what those men say OVER WHAT IT REALLY SAYS. That is what JWS do and you think you must do that or you are disobeying Jehovah. That is WRONG. In your minds you are equating those men with Jehovah. That's very dangerous - Keiw- they have proven to be false time and time again. I am not saying to hate them but I am saying to stop idolizing them as if they were prophets sent from God. They are not.
I know that as long as you have that mindset- that nothing I ever say will matter to you and nothing I ever show you in the bible will help you. You have got to let your own God given mind be allowed to work. It is NOT easy. You will hear those WT false teachings over and over in your head because you have had them beaten into your brain via rote learning and fear. It is a tactic used not by God but by man.
If you were only willing to put things to the test using all of scriptures and not just the verses you have been sold. There is much more to the bible than the verses you recite over and over!!

You can't possibly know truth, using altered translations.

 

[PS95]

You can't possibly know truth, using altered translations.

You're wrong about that. I used the NWT at first. The cross references don't always take you to where they should. Now, I use several translations and I check everything with the interlinears.

 

[Keiw]

You're wrong about that. I used the NWT at first. The cross references don't always take you to where they should. Now, I use several translations and I check everything with the interlinears.

Were you baptized JW. If so do not speak to me.