ARE BELIEVERS BORN AGAIN WHILE ON EARTH?

[PS95]

Gods judgement against sin= the wages sin pays is death. That is full payment.

God's punishment for the unsaved is eternal death in lake of fire.
His gift of salvation is By His son Jesus which is eternal life.
Your physical death absolutely does not release you from your sins and set you up for resurrection due to sinlessness by death!
That is a LIE. Ro 6 is speaking about being born anew and forgiven/acquitted of our sins in this life.
There is only one way -- that is to have your sins forgiven in Christ's blood at Calvary.
JWS deny that simple precious truth.

 

[PS95]

Amen!

Let me put it this way. To think that Romans 6:7 is talking about physical death is like thinking that Romans 6:2 is talking about physical death, which it clearly is not.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. 5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.

What is the context in this passage? Just look at verses 2, 4 and 6 before reading verse 7. In verse 2, Paul says "we are those who HAVE DIED to sin and don't live in it any longer". He's clearly talking about people who are ALIVE and no longer living in sin. That's undeniable. So, what does that mean? Just keep reading from there. It means for "our old self" to be "crucified with him" so "that we should no longer be slaves to sin". Having a personal relationship with Jesus spiritually means we are His servants rather than being slaves to sin any longer. It doesn't mean we never sin, but it means we desire to serve Jesus rather than sinning against Him like we did before.

So, since Christians "are those who have died to sin" while crucifying our old self and putting on the new self in Christ, anyone who has died to sin has been set free from sin in the sense of no longer being slaves to sin. Scripture says "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" (Philippians 4:13). We can overcome sin with Christ's help. Before putting our faith in Christ and having a relationship with Him, we cannot overcome sin. So, becoming dead to sin in the sense of no longer being slaves to sin and instead submitting ourselves to Christ, we are then set free from sin and the wages of sin which is eternal death (in contrast to God's gift of eternal life - Romans 6:23).

Yes... It's not brain surgery is it? It speaks to your heart because you are a new creature!
Perhaps it is a matter of not being able to understand it since the cross is foolishness to them. The JW leaders are woefully spiritually inept. The mangling of the scriptures is endless. It's a very sad thing to see them teaching anyone. Although, I do believe that they teach an alternate view for themselves only on this one. I will get back to you on that.

It's interesting to note that the Jw bible (NWT) adds words here as is their frequent habit. See difference below-
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. NASB
Romans 6:23 For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord. NWT

There is no reason to add the words "sin pays" as it is not in the Greek. But true to the watchtower- their bible adds words to attempt to reinforce their doctrines. While this change makes no difference to anyone who understands Ro 6- what it does for the JW mind is reinforce how they teach it. - That is, their deaths paid for their own sins so they became righteous/sinless.
Jesus? Nope- not forgiven their sins.
The JW Jesus was only able to pay for Adam's sin, since they were both equal "perfect men". And to a Jw anyone who believes that Jesus was more than just a man like Adam is an antichrist.

 

[Jesus Wept]

Hi Jesus Wept,
It's a great question. This forum has no real rules when it comes to defining a Christian as far as I have noticed. You will find everything taught on here.
It's how JWs word things that messes with the moderators heads IMO. They seem to believe the JWs smooth words over those who know and expose their actual teachings. Mods are in need of discernment IMO or they don't have agreement of what it means to be a Christian.

JWs are allowed to lie IF they feel it protects their organization. It is known by them as theocratic warfare. They only have to tell you the truth if they believe that you are entitled to it.
I do not make things up about JWs. I can document it all. I was raised in it and involved with them for 30 yrs but not baptized as one.
JWs will lie and say that they believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ and they have on this very forum. It's a lie. The Watchtower teaches that Jesus was not divine as was only a perfect man just like Adam was.

• w92 1/15 pp 20-23 --What Do the Scriptures Say About “the Divinity of Christ”?

But JWS do teach that angels have "divine qualities"-
Since they teach Michael the archangel had divine qualities and it' was his "life force" that was put into Mary's ovum- although a life force has NO personality or anything at all--" and since they designate the Word of God as "a god" or divine--
If a JW is not being honest they will say Jesus was divine but that could only be because Michael was an angel with divine qualities before he went out of existence and then again after he was re-created--- after Jesus was crucified.
If that made your head hurt you are not alone. It's deception at every turn.

As to regeneration- You're totally correct there as well. JWs are not born anew and aggressively deny that anyone is ( that is only reserved for a few special Jws) and It appears that @Aunty Jane has just made up her very own definition now which is in the OP.
I am unaware of Jane's new idea ever being taught by JWs, but who knows it could be what is called by them, new light.
@Keiw has refused to address this thread topic yet.

There is much more to know about this religion and there is much more that is un- Christian, but most people simply have no interest other than what they already think they do know about them- much of which isn't totally accurate. It is actually far worse and alien to the scriptures than people realize. That is the reason I joined here, but there is relatively no interest.

Welcome to the forum btw. It's a fast paced environment with endless arguing and every opinion imaginable.

I've had some very interesting conversations with JW's and Mormons over the years. Something I now try to avoid.

Thanks for your input.

Very happy you found the real Jesus.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

ARE BELIEVERS BORN AGAIN WHILE ON EARTH?

Those not getting born again while alive on earth will sadly be going to hell