Jane_Doe22
Well-Known Member
Ask God yourself.So then how do you know that what the Holy Spirit is telling one person is correct if another person said the Spirit told them something different?
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Ask God yourself.So then how do you know that what the Holy Spirit is telling one person is correct if another person said the Spirit told them something different?
In the initial stages of my own conversion experience, it was as you have described it. I had never picked up a Bible in life, and as you know yourself, Catholic education and religious practice in the 50s and 60s did not encourage Bible reading among the laity.Does theology, even correct theology, lead us to the correct Christ... or are we drawn by the Father to Jesus because of what the Father sees in our heart?
Who said anything about judging? I'm not even questioning, yet, your beliefs. I am merely asking if you agree that a correct theology ought to lead us to the true Christ yes? I mean, after all, Jesus Himself said there would be many false Christs. How do know we have the real deal leading us and sanctifying us if our theology disagrees with our practice which we to that point thought was Christ's leading?I would suggest it's folly for man A to judge man B's relationship based on how man B's ability to "correctly" pass a theology test posed by man A.
And will His answer contradict the scriptures?Ask God yourself.
As I just said: God's Truth never contradicts itself. But He can contradict man's limited understanding of His Truth.And will His answer contradict the scriptures?
Indeed. And how does He do that?As I just said: God's Truth never contradicts itself. But He can contradict man's limited understanding of His Truth.
And how can we test it for ourselves that we have truth and not error?As I just said: God's Truth never contradicts itself. But He can contradict man's limited understanding of His Truth.
It is the ultimate answer, as He is the ultimate source of Truth and everything. All other things are lesser.Great non-answer.
Ask Him. Test His words. Listen.And how can we test it for ourselves that we have truth and not error?
Correct theology simply tells us who the real Christ Jesus is, among the myriad claiming to be Christ. I wouldn't say it (theology), of itself, leads any person to Christ and salvation, per se, as that requires the Holy Spirit, as sent by the Father and the Son, Jesus, God drawing all through the character displayed at Calvary, the gospel in Christ Jesus, and even sister White herself stated that a person may know all there is to know about prophecy, etc and still not know Christ Jesus and be lost, which simply mirrors what Paul states in 1 Cor. 13 and elsewhere. It would sort of be like the distinction between "right" and "righteousness".Does theology, even correct theology, lead us to the correct Christ... or are we drawn by the Father to Jesus because of what the Father sees in our heart?
Maybe a case of you in your small corner and I in mine. I have lived on three continents so I have been around.Where in the world do people find churches like these? I hear about them, but have never seen one.
More like mens interpretation of Scripture can contradict the truth thats why there are so many arguments.But He can contradict a man's interpretation of scripture.
For those exalting the Alexandrian line of MSS allow me to quote B G Wilkinson, from his book, The Authorised Bible Vindicated (available freely online in pdf format)...
The year in which the apostle John died, 100 A.D., is given as the date in which Justin Martyr was born. Justin, originally a pagan and of pagan parentage, afterward embraced Christianity and although he is said to have died at heathen hands for his religion, nevertheless, his teachings were of a heretical nature. Even as a Christian teacher, he continued to wear the robes of a pagan philosopher. In the teachings of Justin Martyr, we begin to see how muddy the stream of pure Christian doctrine was running among the heretical sects fifty years after the death of the apostle John. It was in Tatian, Justin Martyr’s pupil, that these regrettable doctrines were carried to alarming lengths, and by his hand committed to writing. After the death of Justin Martyr in Rome, Tatian returned to Palestine and embraced the Gnostic heresy. This same Tatian wrote a Harmony of the Gospels which was called the Diatessaron, meaning four in one. The Gospels were so notoriously corrupted by his hand that in later years a bishop of Syria, because of the errors, was obliged to throw out of his churches no less than two hundred copies of this Diatessaron, since church members were mistaking it for the true Gospel.fa19 We come now to Tatian’s pupil known as Clement of Alexandria, 200 A. D.fa20 He went much farther than Tatian in that he founded a school at Alexandria which instituted propaganda along these heretical lines. Clement expressly tells us that he would not hand down Christian teachings, pure and unmixed, but rather clothed with precepts of pagan philosophy. All the writings of the outstanding heretical teachers were possessed by Clement, and he freely quoted from their corrupted MSS. As if they were the pure words of Scripture.fa21 His influence in the depravation of Christianity was tremendous. But his greatest contribution, undoubtedly, was the direction given to the studies and activities of Origen, his famous pupil. When we come to Origen, we speak the name of him who did the most of all to create and give direction to the forces of apostasy down through the centuries. It was he who mightily influenced Jerome, the editor of the Latin Bible known as the Vulgate. Eusebius worshiped at the altar of Origen’s teachings. He claims to have collected eight hundred of Origen’s letters, to have used Origen’s six-column Bible, the Hexapla, in his Biblical labors. Assisted by Pamphilus, he restored and preserved Origen’s library. Origen’s corrupted MSS. of the Scriptures were well arranged and balanced with subtlety. The last one hundred years have seen much of the so-called scholarship of European and English Christianity dominated by the subtle and powerful influence of Origen. Origen had so surrendered himself to the furore of turning all Bible events into allegories that he, himself, says, “The Scriptures are of little use to those who understand them as they are written.”fa22 In order to estimate Origen rightly, we must remember that as a pupil of Clement, he learned the teachings of the Gnostic heresy and like his master, lightly esteemed the historical basis of the Bible. As Schaff says, “His predilection for Plato (the pagan philosopher) led him into many grand and fascinating errors.”
He made himself acquainted with the various heresies and studied under the heathen Ammonius Saccas, founder of Neo-Platonism. He taught that the soul existed from eternity before it inhabited the body, and that after death, it migrated to a higher or a lower form of life according to the deeds done in the body; and finally all would return to the state of pure intelligence, only to begin again the same cycle as before. He believed that the devils would be saved, and that the stars and planets had souls, and were, like men, on trial to learn perfection. In fact, he turned the whole law and Gospel into an allegory. Such was the man who from his day to this has dominated the endeavors of destructive textual critics. One of the greatest results of his life, was that his teachings became the foundation of that system of education called Scholasticism, which guided the colleges of Latin Europe for nearly one thousand years during the Dark Ages.
More like mens interpretation of Scripture can contradict the truth thats why there are so many arguments.
The 'de-nomin-ation' is simply the outward working of the held doctrines.And can I add, denominations?
well religion and mankind in general. Thats why these forums exist. People wont go to Jesus, find every excuse under the sun to stay away from Him than hope to be saved.And can I add, denominations?
The 'de-nomin-ation' is simply the outward working of the held doctrines.
Individual persons, collectively believing in a core set of doctrines together.And who is holding those doctrines?