Are Jehovah's witnesses real Christians?

[Bible Highlighter]

Christians come and go sir that is true. Make no mistake however, satan was proved wrong by Jesus, and although the road is narrow and few will be on it, Jehovah will always have people who will stand on His side of the issue.

This point has nothing to do with what I said.
You are not actually dealing with the points I mentioned. You first need to address my points specifically with a logical response and hopefully with the Bible (that actually ties in with refuting my points) before you can move on to another point of your own. I said, I quote:

First, your blind trust in your organization is your downfall.
Many previous JW’s have found reason to doubt the JW organization and left them.
You do not research to see if your JW organization is potentially lying to you.

Second, you guys used to follow the King James Bible before you created your own translation that catered to your Pet Theologies. So if you criticize the King James Bible you are only criticizing your own organization because that was their chosen Bible that they used for a long time in history. This is why your blind trust in the JW organization has not allowed you to see any kind of reason.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

In other words, your own catered translation failed to alter this verse to fit your own pet theology.

Sadly, their toxic waste dumps such as "understanding the SCriptures" et. al. Teach them that Jesus "manufactured bodies as needed" to prove He had risen from the dead.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I think you need to read 1 Corinthians 15. Why can you believe that God sent his spirit Son to earth as an embryo in Mary’s womb but you think it’s impossible for God to resurrect him back as a spirit? This is exactly what Paul writes about and says Jesus was the first fruits of this resurrection.

Because that is not what the bible as written teaches, that is why! god could have written that and I would believe it. But one comes to that conclusion by mangling definitions of words, failed grammar and reinterpreting Scripture!

In order for something to be resurrected it has to be raised AGAIN! In order for Jesus to be resurrected (stand up again ) an invisible spirit creature, He would have had to lay down (die) as an invisible spirit creature. Otherwise what you have is transformation, but not a resurrection.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

As I stated sir, I do not side with your watchtower

Well my watchtower is called THE BIBLE and I know you do not agree with it.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

One of us is for a fact sir. You are unable to do it, because it is simply not a Bible teaching

Adding one lie to another is unbecoming of you!

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Continued From No.278

The rank and file have been adequately warned that the Governing Body's
teachings should not be assumed either inspired or infallible.

Paragraph 12, under the heading; "Who is leading God's People today?" of
the Feb 2017 Watchtower--Study Edition; says:

"The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in
doctrinal matters or in organizational direction. In fact, the Watchtower
Publications Index includes the heading “Beliefs Clarified,” which lists
adjustments in our Scriptural understanding since 1870. Of course, Jesus did
not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food."

Just imagine the degree of confusion and insecurity that would pervade the
minds of Bible-believing Christians had the authors of the New Testament
scriptures attached a disclaimer to their writings similar to the above.
_

 

[DavidB]

Because that is not what the bible as written teaches, that is why! god could have written that and I would believe it. But one comes to that conclusion by mangling definitions of words, failed grammar and reinterpreting Scripture!

In order for something to be resurrected it has to be raised AGAIN! In order for Jesus to be resurrected (stand up again ) an invisible spirit creature, He would have had to lay down (die) as an invisible spirit creature. Otherwise what you have is transformation, but not a resurrection.

Looks like you didn’t want to read 1 Corinthians 15. I’ll give you a glimpse.

“So it is with the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised up in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised up in power. 44 It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.”


Looks like the resurrection Paul is describing involves a transformation wouldn’t you say?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

.
Continued From No.278

The rank and file have been adequately warned that the Governing Body's
teachings should not be assumed either inspired or infallible.

Paragraph 12, under the heading; "Who is leading God's People today?" of
the Feb 2017 Watchtower--Study Edition; says:

"The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in
doctrinal matters or in organizational direction. In fact, the Watchtower
Publications Index includes the heading “Beliefs Clarified,” which lists
adjustments in our Scriptural understanding since 1870. Of course, Jesus did
not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food."

Just imagine the degree of confusion and insecurity that would pervade the
minds of Bible-believing Christians had the authors of the New Testament
scriptures attached a disclaimer to their writings similar to the above.
_

Yet, when I heard testimonies of recent ex Jehovah's Witnesses (by video), they were trained to think that what the Watch Tower said was as if it was just as authoritative as Scripture. They were not to question the Watch Tower's decisions. The Watch Tower is supposed to be the only one who will guide them safely through the end times Apocalypse. If that is the case, and they are saying they are fallible, then there is no guarantee that they will be able to deliver on their promise in guiding them safely in the Apocalypse. They could be wrong yet again (Just like they were wrong on many failed prophecies, and they are wrong for doctrinal inconsistencies over the many years). So blind devotion to this cult is just silly. They are not even consistent in anything they say or do. They created their own Bible translation and they don't even fully believe that (When you point out how it contradicts their extra biblical teachings). They are brainwashed and conditioned to believe whatever their cult says.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Looks like you didn’t want to read 1 Corinthians 15. I’ll give you a glimpse.

“So it is with the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised up in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised up in power. 44 It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.”


Looks like the resurrection Paul is describing involves a transformation wouldn’t you say?

This is in reference to the body of believers and it is not in reference to Jesus Christ. Why?
Jesus said to his OWN disciples the following.

Luke 24:39
“Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.”

Let me repeat that just in case it did not sink in.

for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Similar words are said in your New World Translation (as I showed you before). Jesus says a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see me have. So Jesus is saying he is not a spirit because he has flesh and bones. So Jesus was not risen as a spirit alone as you guys falsely claim. Again, even your own created Translation refutes you on this point.

So why are you ignoring these words in Scripture?
Look at these words in Scripture!
Believe them!
Stop listening to the lies of your cult leaders.

 

[Robert Gwin]

You are as deceived as him then. You and Wrangler have an extremely satanically inspired view of the character of God of you believe humility and submission is foreign to His nature. Jesus came to reveal the Father. Submission to His Father's will was the example He set before the universe, and especially us, as we negotiate out way through the traps and hazards of the way home. "take the lower seat". "Humble yourselves before God". You don't think God is capable of humbling Himself before others? You don't think that giving His own precious Only begotten Son to the human race was not an act of humility? You don't think surrendering to the evil murderers of the Jewish leadership an act of humility? KJV 2 Corinthians 5:18-19
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Humility and self sacrifice is the very essence of the nature of the Father. It's called love.

Fact is Brake we all agree on something, I even agree with you on some things. One of them of course is not who God is. I serve Jehovah sir, the God of Jesus, do you understand that? If you do not serve Him, then you reject the teachings of Jesus Mat 4:10. Rather simple, correct? I would suggest a better version of the Bible sir.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Not another name necessarily. Do not our children inherit our name?
KJV Jeremiah 23:5-6
5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Robert, you and I agree that Jesus was called Michael before He came to this earth. Compare the following...

KJV Revelation 12:7
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

“The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.”, “The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies.”, “Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?”, “... the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.”, “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.” see Exo. 15:3; Isa. 42:13; Luke 14:31; Rev. 17:14, 19:11

KJV Psalms 24:7-10
7 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
8 Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.
9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
10 Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah.

See we do agree on something sir. So let me ask you Brake, have you ever researched where LORD was what was the original word in Hebrew? Why do you support the translators decision to change YHWH to Adonai, and why do you suppose they chose to do that Brake?

 

[Robert Gwin]

Not sure of the point you are trying to make. I have no issue with Christ being the head of the church, and God the head of Christ... What concerns me is

Without any recognition of the deity and literal, natural Sonship of Christ, you place Satan as being equal to and of the same nature as Christ. Just divine...like any other heavenly creature. Nothing special. Nothing to see here. Just another ordinary angel who became a man and lived a good life. Sure, he was Michael, so he was the boss, but no different in nature to any other angel. This brief is what concerns me.

satan is not equal to Jesus Brake, but he is the same nature as Jesus. They are both gods according to the Bible, both divine in other words. They are both created spirit beings, brothers if you will as they are both sons of God. Equal has various meanings, so in some cases yes they are equal, but in heavenly authority of position, Jesus is above every other being except Jehovah sir.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Addressed in other posts Brake, you may have posted this by mistake sir.

 

[Robert Gwin]

By whose Spirit did Noah peach righteousness to the people of his day? Who spoke to and called Abraham out of Babylon? Who fought with Jacob, and changed his name to Israel?
Who led Israel out of Egypt? Who was in the fire and in the cloud? Who spoke to Moses on the mount? Who covered Moses eyes so he could only see his back, and proclaimed His name as LORD, then gave Moses the tables of stone? Who appeared to and spoke with Joshua? Manoah? So yes. Absolutely I am saying that Yehovah is a correct and proper name for the Son of God.

I guess you have not researched the original Hebrew Brake. Blue letter Bible is a great site that breaks down and defines every word found in many Bibles sir. As mentioned in another post to you, the translators of your version changed YHWH to Adonai in those verses. Research Ps 110:1 to see a great comparison of the change. Why do you suppose they changed it that way sir?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Fact is Brake we all agree on something, I even agree with you on some things. One of them of course is not who God is. I serve Jehovah sir, the God of Jesus, do you understand that? If you do not serve Him, then you reject the teachings of Jesus Mat 4:10. Rather simple, correct? I would suggest a better version of the Bible sir.

But you believe no Bible exists. So you are contradicting yourself. Who gets to decide what Bible has errors and another one has correct things within it? By looking to see if there is one Bible that stands above the rest in doctrinal purity and goodness (i.e. in being wholesome) and it being trustworthy and reliable when we wait upon it by faith. I believe this is the King James Bible. I have provided many reasons why it is God's Word today.

The JW Bible is a joke and everyone knows it. They created the New World Translation after believing the KJB for a hundred years. Their translation was only created to fit their pet theologies that are extra biblical and they did not even do a good job at doing that. They had sloppy scholarship. One guy on the New World Translation translator team even lied that he knew Hebrew in a scottish court.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Let me ask you Walt, why do you think they chose to alter Jehovah's name in their version, and why do you think it is found in it in it's entirety 4 times sir?

You guys keep evading tough questions and or points that you don't want to deal with and you move on to other points as if we are hoping we are forgetful and or senile. Good luck with your evasion tactics.

To all readers here, I have created a thread that shows reasons why the JW religion is false.

Reasons why the Jehovah’s Witness religion is false (Despite my love for them as human beings)

No logical or sound rebuttals have actually been given to my claims or reasons that I have provided.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Don't waste your time with them if they don't deal with your points first and they want to move on to talking about something else.
A person cannot be taken seriously if they dodge your points that demolishes their false cult religion.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

JW people:

Study what makes up the definition of a cult. Learn about cults and the history of cults. By doing so... you will discover you are in a cult. I don't say this lightly. I really mean it. If you truly study about what characteristics make up a cult, and then you study the history of cults, then you will begin to see the truth, and the truth will set you free.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Sir, do you have an answer? and why do you use the name Jehovah as often as you do?

Robert, I thought in post #231 I explained that.

Walter

Thanks for giving me the post # Walt, that made it much easier to find. No sir, I didn't pick up on the answer to the question, but I did understand what you posted. Of course names change in languages, so YHWH is Yahweh in Hebrew, but in English it is Jehovah. Strangely, Jesus name should be Joshua as it is the same as Joshua's, but for some strange reason all Bibles call him Jesus, so I fully believe God accepts that.

I think I have an answer Walt, the translators of those versions deliberately changed it to promote the trinity doctrine. Since you have to call on Jehovah's name for salvation, and know Him, He did protect His name in those versions, like you pointed out in post #231 those 4 places. It is interesting how after His name became well known throughout the earth, that His full name was removed entirely from some versions. But equally interesting I know of no translation that was able to omit it completely, as they include it in the shortened form Jah. Ps 68:4

God's name occurs 6973 times in the Bible (I believe), far more than any other name, and His people used it and made it known including Jesus Jn 17:6,26. And being Jesus disciples commanded to teach all the things he did Mat 28:20 we make it known as well Rom 10:14,15

Thanks for asking me Walt?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So if JW's are in a cult, like all other cults that seek to brainwash people, and who have caused abuse upon others, then they cannot be true and real Christians. I believe the JW religion is a cult because they exhibit those characteristics. It really is that simple. People need to educate themselves on what a cult is. Study the topic. Know the destructive nature of cults. By doing so, one will realize that reaching cult members (like the JW adherents) takes lots of prayer, lots of love, and the Word of God. For they are brainwashed and conditioned to follow their cult leaders over anything else.