ARE ONLY SMART PEOPLE SAVED?

[Randy Kluth]

And its exactly what they are doing TODAY . ONE UNITY , ONE WORLD , ONE EMPIRE , ONE ALL INCLUSIVE RELIGOIN .
AND ITS ALL UNDER THE DRAGON too .

Dear Christian friend, do you even know where the guy is coming from? He is undermining the creedal theology that has united Christians from the beginning.

 

[Grailhunter]

So you want to believe that Constantine was wanting to kill people who didn't accept his "compromise?" I rather think he wanted to get down to the brass tacks of what Christian Doctrine should really be, and not be wishy washy about it.

LOL Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all. You have to understand the Roman mentality. Politics before truth.

Yes, being plain and obvious is what I believe he was after, in order to give no excuse or ambiguity to the matters. But I just think we're looking at things from different sides of the coin. Yes, Constantine probably was not invested in Christianity enough to be interested in anything more than formulating a "Peace Doctrine."

Very much disagree.....try studying history a little.

If it had been just about the "simplicity of Salvation," I would've agreed with you. But you made it about denouncing the Doctrine of the Trinity and about the history of developing a Systematic Theology or List of Fundamentals for Christians. That's where we disagree.

The Johnny Appleseed of Truth.....part of my ministry is denouncing false beliefs.
And they are fundamental clichés that are false beliefs that skew the meaning of the scriptures

Yes, but I think that's an oversimplification, designed to criticize denominations as "divisive." Often, the denomination merely wanted to establish its own identity in a different region, so that political lines were drawn.

There was a problem with both Church and State in constantly tending to overreach. The Catholic Church wanted to assert its authority over *all Christians.* And the States sometimes tried to establish control not just over Christianity within its own political realm but also over the distant headquarters of the Church at Rome.

Boundaries had to be drawn, and the theology was as much as about asserting the rights of autonomy as it was about arguing points of theology. It's sometimes hard to know whether the theology was more important than the political position indicated by the right to form one's own theology.

I was completely accurate without writing a book. A book on the topic would prove me right.

Roger Williams took the conventional Separatist line that the idea of a Theocracy was hopeless. Of course, he was right in the sense that at some point it would become hopeless. That didn't mean that theocracies had failed in the past or that they couldn't work again. A fallen Christian State cannot, apart from a major revival or awakening, return to a reasonably good Christian State.

I do not know how you could be more wrong....are you using both hands?

That's what I mean about translating words into different cultural understandings. Some would say that the Holy Spirit cannot be a separate "being" because that implies he is distinct from the "being" of Deity. And that would be absurd since the Holy Spirit is the Sprit of God.

LOL The Holy Spirit is the third person and it was that way from the beginning.
One of the problems caused by not giving the Holy Spirit a name.
There is the Holy Spirit but Yahweh and Yeshua have a holy spirit....meaning their spirit is holy.

 

[Randy Kluth]

LOL Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all. You have to understand the Roman mentality. Politics before truth.

You try to impugn Constantine's motives by pointing to Governor Pilate? What's wrong with this picture? A Pope in the Middle Ages burned Huss at the stake. Therefore, all Catholic Popes are guilty of murder? Non-sequitur.

Very much disagree.....try studying history a little.

If you can't tell I've studied history, I wonder how in-depth into history you've gone?

The Johnny Appleseed of Truth.....part of my ministry is denouncing false beliefs.

You have a corrupt ministry. Denying the fundamentals of the Christian faith, and spending your time attacking historic Christianity in its many phases is not what I consider to be a "ministry!"

I would consider it *my ministry* to expose you as a false minister. I'm not hostile to you, but I must speak the truth, for your benefit as well as for the benefit of those who read your posts.

I was completely accurate without writing a book. A book on the topic would prove me right.

I do not know how you could be more wrong....are you using both hands?

Rudeness does not befit a Christian discussion. But perhaps you aren't Born Again? Someone who doesn't get the Trinity right may not get God or Christ right either?

Paul spoke about not ministering on somebody else's territory. It is indeed a problem when an imperial Catholic Church tries to overstep itself by interfering in the politics of an Empire or State. It is just as bad when the State tries to interfere in the religion of its subjects.

It is just as wrong for the imperial Church to try to interfere with independent State Churches. They should not extend beyond the borders of their own political confines. This is what was shown when the Holy Roman Empire tried to impose its way upon the emerging Protestant States. Ultimately, Catholicism had to relent and allow Protestant religion to root itself within their own independent States.

Boundaries are there to preserve the right of individuals and societies to choose for themselves what kind of government and what kind of religion they will follow. Many of the problems in churches have to do with overstepping boundaries in this way. I could give you example after example. But you do not seem interested, except in proving how "divisive" Christians are?

2 Cor 10.16 so that we can preach the gospel in the regions beyond you. For we do not want to boast about work already done in someone else’s territory.

LOL The Holy Spirit is the third person and it was that way from the beginning.
One of the problems caused by not giving the Holy Spirit a name.
There is the Holy Spirit but Yahweh and Yeshua have a holy spirit....meaning their spirit is holy.

You are confusing what it means for a *man* to have a human spirit and for *God* to have the Holy Spirit. They are not the same!

The Holy Spirit does not have a name because His personhood is not that kind of a personal distinction such as different human individuals relate to one another. He does not need a name other than the "Holy Spirit."

The Holy Spirit can indeed relate to the other Persons of the Trinity, but the Spirit of God is being expressed as God's infinite presence in local manifestations. As such, He is often represented as the "power of God," manifesting Himself in various places at various times. It is God operating from outside of the finite universe to show HIs power within the universe.

Being a finite manifestation, however, the Holy Spirit projects Himself in the form of a finite Person extending from infinite Deity, and must relate with the Father in this way.

 

[Grailhunter]

You try to impugn Constantine's motives by pointing to Governor Pilate? What's wrong with this picture? A Pope in the Middle Ages burned Huss at the stake. Therefore, all Catholic Popes are guilty of murder? Non-sequitur.

Roman mentality.

If you can't tell I've studied history, I wonder how in-depth into history you've gone?

So far you are a joke. And you are beginning to bore me.

You try to impugn Constantine's motives by pointing to Governor Pilate? What's wrong with this picture? A Pope in the Middle Ages burned Huss at the stake. Therefore, all Catholic Popes are guilty of murder? Non-sequitur.

If you can't tell I've studied history, I wonder how in-depth into history you've gone?

You have a corrupt ministry. Denying the fundamentals of the Christian faith, and spending your time attacking historic Christianity in its many phases is not what I consider to be a "ministry!"

I would consider it *my ministry* to expose you as a false minister. I'm not hostile to you, but I must speak the truth, for your benefit as well as for the benefit of those who read your posts.

Rudeness does not befit a Christian discussion. But perhaps you aren't Born Again? Someone who doesn't get the Trinity right may not get God or Christ right either?

Paul spoke about not ministering on somebody else's territory. It is indeed a problem when an imperial Catholic Church tries to overstep itself by interfering in the politics of an Empire or State. It is just as bad when the State tries to interfere in the religion of its subjects.

It is just as wrong for the imperial Church to try to interfere with independent State Churches. They should not extend beyond the borders of their own political confines. This is what was shown when the Holy Roman Empire tried to impose its way upon the emerging Protestant States. Ultimately, Catholicism had to relent and allow Protestant religion to root itself within their own independent States.

Boundaries are there to preserve the right of individuals and societies to choose for themselves what kind of government and what kind of religion they will follow. Many of the problems in churches have to do with overstepping boundaries in this way. I could give you example after example. But you do not seem interested, except in proving how "divisive" Christians are?

2 Cor 10.16 so that we can preach the gospel in the regions beyond you. For we do not want to boast about work already done in someone else’s territory.

You are confusing what it means for a *man* to have a human spirit and for *God* to have the Holy Spirit. They are not the same!

The Holy Spirit does not have a name because His personhood is not that kind of a personal distinction such as different human individuals relate to one another. He does not need a name other than the "Holy Spirit."

The Holy Spirit can indeed relate to the other Persons of the Trinity, but the Spirit of God is being expressed as God's infinite presence in local manifestations. As such, He is often represented as the "power of God," manifesting Himself in various places at various times. It is God operating from outside of the finite universe to show HIs power within the universe.

Being a finite manifestation, however, the Holy Spirit projects Himself in the form of a finite Person extending from infinite Deity, and must relate with the Father in this way.

I am done.....go bore someone else

 

[Randy Kluth]

Roman mentality.

As I said, that's non-sequitur reasoning. Not all Romans think alike. What really is "Roman thinking?" You are imposing a single way of thinking upon all Romans, which on its face is absurd. How many Roman philosophers have there been who disagree with one another, both politically and otherwise?

So far you are a joke. And you are beginning to bore me.

Really, I'm not trying to entertain you. Feel free to sell your ticket to more conversation.

I am done.....go bore someone else

Try not to attack Christianity expecting you will not get a reasonable response. But that's not really what you want, is it?

 

[Titus]

AND SURPRISINGLY ENOUGH IT IS NOT ABOUT THE BIBLE. YOU MAY FIND THIS SHOCKING?!

Grailhunter doesn't believe the Bible is nessary to be saved!
It is the revealed God, revealed to us from His word that explains to us how we know who is saved.

1John 5:13,
- These things I have  written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may KNOW that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

 

[ButterflyJones]

ARE ONLY SMART PEOPLE SAVED?​

Boy, I hope not. Otherwise, I'm one deluded knucklehead. In fine company.

 

[Gottservant]

Are only smart people saved?

That is a resounding NO!
[...]

You certainly have the Reflection of the Holy Spirit, brother. Bring us into View!

 

[Grailhunter]

As I said, that's non-sequitur reasoning. Not all Romans think alike. What really is "Roman thinking?" You are imposing a single way of thinking upon all Romans, which on its face is absurd. How many Roman philosophers have there been who disagree with one another, both politically and otherwise?

Really, I'm not trying to entertain you. Feel free to sell your ticket to more conversation.

Try not to attack Christianity expecting you will not get a reasonable response. But that's not really what you want, is it?

It is called an education.

 

[Grailhunter]

Grailhunter doesn't believe the Bible is nessary to be saved!
It is the revealed God, revealed to us from His word that explains to us how we know who is saved.

1John 5:13,
- These things I have  written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may KNOW that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

The first bound Bibles were the 50 Bibles of Constantine that were produced around 355 AD.

How many people do you think were saved before that?

 

[Patrick1966]

Grailhunter doesn't believe the Bible is nessary to be saved!
It is the revealed God, revealed to us from His word that explains to us how we know who is saved.

1John 5:13,
- These things I have  written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may KNOW that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

1 John 5:13
Young's Literal Translation
13 These things I did write to you who are believing in the name of the Son of God, that ye may know that life ye have age-during, and that ye may believe in the name of the Son of God.

 

[Patrick1966]

Yes, Jesus tortures dumb people for eternity. It's unfortunate for them buy those are the breaks.

 

[Grailhunter]

1 John 5:13
Young's Literal Translation
13 These things I did write to you who are believing in the name of the Son of God, that ye may know that life ye have age-during, and that ye may believe in the name of the Son of God.

So exactly what are you guys thinking here?

 

[Titus]

1 John 5:13
Young's Literal Translation
13 These things I did write to you who are believing in the name of the Son of God, that ye may know that life ye have age-during, and that ye may believe in the name of the Son of God.

Without the Word,
No one would know who Jesus is
No one would know who the Holy Spirit is
No one would know who the Father is
No one would know they are lost seperated from God dead in their sins
No one would know they need a Savior and that only Jesus can take away the sins of the world.

 

[Patrick1966]

Without the Word,
No one would know who Jesus is
No one would know who the Holy Spirit is
No one would know who the Father is
No one would know they are lost seperated from God dead in their sins
No one would know they need a Savior and that only Jesus can take away the sins of the world.

My point was that the mistranslation in 1 John 5:13 that incorrectly uses the word "eternal".

 

[Titus]

My point was that the mistranslation in 1 John 5:13 that incorrectly uses the word "eternal".

No mistranslation friend.
It means never ending, eternal

 

[Titus]

My point was that the mistranslation in 1 John 5:13 that incorrectly uses the word "eternal".

btw, why do you disagree with eternal in this passage?

 

[Patrick1966]

btw, why do you disagree with eternal in this passage?

The correct translation is "for the age", not "eternal".

 

[Titus]

The correct translation is "for the age", not "eternal".

Go to Bible hub and study the meaning of the Greek word. It means eternal.
Why do you dislike eternal in this verse being used. I'm puzzled by that.
Please let me know?

 

[Patrick1966]

Go to Bible hub and study the meaning of the Greek word. It means eternal.
Why do you dislike eternal in this verse being used. I'm puzzled by that.
Please let me know?

No worries my brother. May God bless you.