Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
We're all theologians. R C Sproul was spot on which is why you reject what he said.
If you feel the need, you can go ahead and get your last word in. :)
Are Protestants "saved? "
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If you feel the need, you can go ahead and get your last word in. :)
Not all of us suppose that our theology will save us - or damn anyone who doesn't happen to disagree with us. As I pointed out earlier, there are Catholics just as stubborn as Sproul, who think that Protestants have a corrupted and Satan-inspired theology.
Round and round it goes. The irony is, Jesus should all of us a way out of that cycle of death, but people still refuse to accept it.
Why not just let Him have the last word? Let's do that:
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
My bible says those who are in unbelief are condemned already. Jesus never said they were not condemned, then condemned again. He said they were condemned already
John said that those who depart the church as antichrists (those who reject Christ) were never of the church. So how could they have been saved, yet NEVER part of the church?
Where ?
Where ?
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Where ?
Eph 2:8-9
8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; 9 not of works, that no man should glory.
Cause and effect. Without faith we are are not saved, so therefore faith is rewarded with salvation.
Language is a strange thing. Meanings can be added to a context without us realising it.
I do wonder at this simple cause and effect relationship. Indoctrination declares itself when the very belief system is put in different words with the same meaning and they are refuted.
Faith itself is a revelation from the Father.
Acts declares people were granted the right to repentance. Paul says we should pray for people to be granted this right. New birth is a mystery, a work of God from on high.
The problem with the word reward it implies we do something, an action, which then is given something in response, the reward. The complexity is Jesus opened the path, died on the cross, made the way to heaven and the King of Kings, laid the carpet, brought the choir of angels, laid on the feast, but we still have to open the door.
The opening of the door is the least difficult of everything, but nothing else can come into effect until this is done. This is the beauty of free will and the awesomeness of Gods love for us, that we have a part to play.
Jesus also puts this into context. The good soil is already there, ready to respond and let the seed grow. So the opening of the door to an extent may not actually be a choice rather something that will always happen for the elect.
But to deny the door, and faith, and our place, is to deny the centrality of Jesus's gospel to us, that He calls us friends, calls us to share in His Kingdom, to reign with Him, to inherit His reward. But you have to see the whole picture to get the balance, to see the path, know the blessing, understand the transformation and what are the risks.
And the cost is our lives, everything we know, and the trust is to put it all in Jesus's hands, and let Him lead us through. There is no harder thing in all of existence than this, because it has eternal significance. And clearly many claim the name but do not walk the walk or even see it is necessary. So my friend, I exalt Jesus and His work, and recognise my responsibility and debt to follow and obey, not just accent to Jesus but actually listen to Him. God bless you
The impure will not inherit the Kingdom.
The difficulty with our walk is simple, we are children born into the Kingdom, not independent individuals who know what is going on. As we change so do our views and perspectives.
John and Peter put it we know we are Jesus's when we love His people and obey Jesus's commands.
Clearly your opposition to this declares you do not know this reality for yourself.
Now the work of God is not my work, so I cannot correct what is Gods work, or do something God must achieve. I can only share and encourage His elect. So to this end, I praise Gods Holy Name, and wish you well, as it seems we will not be able to cross this gulf between us. God bless you
I think this summarises it very well.
It is like Jesus telling the disciples He chose them, though Jesus called them to follow.
They chose to listen and follow. There is so much in Christ that is both two perspectives working at different levels.
It is like the story of foot steps. Someone sees only one set of foot steps at various points and Jesus says that was where they were being carried. I have had hard times like this, when only if Jesus had not filled me, I would have given up.
In all relationships, two become one, and work together. A mum and dad know this when looking after kids, as roles shift, reverse and needs change. But man wants a safe quantifiable reality, but God is alive and we are always growing. Theology can be a trap, an echo chamber where ones interpretation dominates the infinite nature of Gods revelation rather than letting God and the Holy Spirit minister to our hearts.
God bless you
SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
They teach that it is. Just conjure up enough faith, and “presto chango, Ollie-Ollie-oxen-free, hocus pocus, abracadabra!” salvation!
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
@FollowHim ... Ephesians 2:8-9 says "that not of yourselves." It's quite clear.
You say it is of yourself.
Incorrect and a false gospel my friend. You should take a real close look at 1 Corinthians 1:26-31. It is just as clear in refuting your erroneous beliefs.
My friend, you then pit Scripture against Scripture, not knowing or understanding what you're saying, reading, coupled with an inability to distinguish between prescriptive/descriptive texts.
In spite of John 6:63 saying you cannot, congrats, you did it anyway!
You say it is of yourself.
Incorrect and a false gospel my friend. You should take a real close look at 1 Corinthians 1:26-31. It is just as clear in refuting your erroneous beliefs.
My friend, you then pit Scripture against Scripture, not knowing or understanding what you're saying, reading, coupled with an inability to distinguish between prescriptive/descriptive texts.
In spite of John 6:63 saying you cannot, congrats, you did it anyway!
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
All you can tell them is "Congrats. You did it!!" Then after you say this they say "Thanks. It was all God."They teach that it is. Just conjure up enough faith, and “presto chango, Ollie-Ollie-oxen-free, hocus pocus, abracadabra!” salvation!
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
John 3: 18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have beendone in God.”
as for people who reject Christ never being part of the church
1 John 2:
18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you[e] know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Your right, and how are we cleansed and made pure?
Again, how are we washed and made pure?
It is easy to say, belief in Jesus means we will be saved.They teach that it is. Just conjure up enough faith, and “presto chango, Ollie-Ollie-oxen-free, hocus pocus, abracadabra!” salvation!
Am I wrong to say belief and salvation are linked?
If we call on His name we will be saved. Are you refuting faith leads to salvation?
Or are you saying we are saved so we believe?
Now all I can talk about is my own experience of coming to faith and how it affected me.
As this is a work of God, it is not in our hands.
But as Paul says we need to hear the word, and faith is born.
I wonder if too many believe a set of beliefs but not actually in Jesus.
I am open to any coherent presentation, but it needs to be founded in scripture.
If we are chosen before the beginning of time, then are we eternal after we are born, because we will believe and we will enter heaven. I am all ears, God bless you
In your view is faith the fruit of salvation rather than the cause?
The mystery I see is how can we have faith in Jesus if we do not know Him. In the process of getting to know Him, when does this knowledge and understanding pass from I like this guy to He is my Lord and Saviour?
Being born again appears to be putting knowledge into effect and calling on Him to work in our lives.
Some debate whether we are saved before we know it, rather than we chose to follow Jesus.
I tend to lean on the mystery and obedience to just share and be a light. It is after all God who brings people into the Kingdom, we are just fellow workers. God bless you
I am sure you have your position, why do you not share it?
Scripture is clear, confession, faith, repentance etc.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
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