Are Some Unable To Be Renewed To Repentance?

[Waiting on him]

"As such I am His workmanship (Ephesians 2:10), and the work that He has begun in me, He will continue to do, until the day of Christ. There is tremendous security in that knowledge."

Total rest in The One! And faith, in knowing He is true to His word and will do it :)

"Hebrews is not expressive of my calling, in Christ Jesus; so I do not identify myself with these Hebrew believers, for I am not going to put myself back under law, having never been under it in the first place as a Gentile believer. I do not therefore believe that the warning of Hebrews 6:6 concerns me as a member of the Church which is His Body of Ephesians 1:22-23. As such I am His workmanship (Ephesians 2:10), and the work that He has begun in me, He will continue to do, until the day of Christ. There is tremendous security in that knowledge. "

I think I understand what you are saying here yet, I cannot help but wonder why you do not identify with those Hebrew believers. The scripture about there being no Jew, no Greek, no male, no female but all are one in Christ keeps coming to mind. I mean, if they were "believers" were they not Christians?
Just my limited thoughts :)

The Hebrews of that time didn’t undergo sanctification as a Christian does today.

Paul’s audience is dull of hearing (they can’t hear) this is why Paul says if God permit....... they’re lost men.

The milk Paul is speaking of is the Old Testament teachings of Messiah..... they’ve yet to meet Him. Paul goes further to say, after all you’ve heard fro me and others you should be teachers by now, he’s implied you haven’t heard anything I’ve said (dull of hearing).

 

[charity]

"As such I am His workmanship (Ephesians 2:10), and the work that He has begun in me, He will continue to do, until the day of Christ. There is tremendous security in that knowledge."

Total rest in The One! And faith, in knowing He is true to His word and will do it :)

"Hebrews is not expressive of my calling, in Christ Jesus; so I do not identify myself with these Hebrew believers, for I am not going to put myself back under law, having never been under it in the first place as a Gentile believer. I do not therefore believe that the warning of Hebrews 6:6 concerns me as a member of the Church which is His Body of Ephesians 1:22-23. As such I am His workmanship (Ephesians 2:10), and the work that He has begun in me, He will continue to do, until the day of Christ. There is tremendous security in that knowledge. "

I think I understand what you are saying here yet, I cannot help but wonder why you do not identify with those Hebrew believers. The scripture about there being no Jew, no Greek, no male, no female but all are one in Christ keeps coming to mind. I mean, if they were "believers" were they not Christians?
Just my limited thoughts :)

Hi @Nancy,

I am so glad you asked this.
They were believers, yes, part of Israel's Olive tree. Gentiles being grafted in approx. 10 years following Pentecost (Acts 10), in the hope of engendering life into that ailing tree.

The truth concerning the church which is the Body of Christ was not made known by revelation to Paul until the end of the period covered by the Acts of the Apostles. While this epistle was probably written in about AD 53-54, in the early part of his ministry, when Paul was in Corinth (Acts 18:11). Peter spoke of Paul having written to the Hebrew believers in 2 Peter 3:15-16:-

'And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation;
.. even as our beloved brother Paul also
.... according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things;
.. in which are some things hard to be understood,
.... which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest,
...... as they do also the other scriptures,
........ unto their own destruction.'

* Galatians was written before Romans, and yet in Romans the Jew is spoken of as 'first', and this does not alter until the nation of Israel went away into the blindness of unbelief at the end of the Acts period. Though there may have been unity among Jew and Gentile, there was not equality, for salvation was of the Jew still (John 4:22); salvation being not finally 'sent' to the Jew until Acts 28:28.

* In Galatians 3:28, Paul said, 'There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.' Yes, in Christ Jesus, they were one in regard to their 'sonship' and 'inheritance', which is the subject of the context in which these words come in Galatians. But they were still grafted into the Olive Tree of Israel, and therefore the Jew still had prior place, and salvation was still of the Jew.

* The inheritance that both Jew and Gentile shared 'in Christ' as part of Israel's Olive Tree, was quite different to that of the church which is the Body of Christ, which I identify myself with, which came into being following Israel's final rejection of Christ as their Messiah and King at Acts 28, Divinely made known to Paul, and through Him to us, by means of the epistles written following, to the Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon.

* The Hebrew believers had been brought to faith through the ministry of Christ Himself, and following His death, through those that had heard Him, namely the Twelve. Whose message was tailored to them, as Paul's message was ministered with the Gentile in mind. They had come from a background of law, whereas I, as a believing Gentile have not for example.

* This is a complex subject, isn't it, Nancy? and I do not claim to have all the answers, but by comparing what is written in the epistles written prior to Israel's final rejection of Christ, and those that followed, the differences stand out in bold relief.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

​

 

[Waiting on him]

Hi @Nancy,

I am so glad you asked this.
They were believers, yes, part of Israel's Olive tree. Gentiles being grafted in approx. 10 years following Pentecost (Acts 10), in the hope of engendering life into that ailing tree.

The truth concerning the church which is the Body of Christ was not made known by revelation to Paul until the end of the period covered by the Acts of the Apostles. While this epistle was probably written in about AD 53-54, in the early part of his ministry, when Paul was in Corinth (Acts 18:11). Peter spoke of Paul having written to the Hebrew believers in 2 Peter 3:15-16:-

'And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation;
.. even as our beloved brother Paul also
.... according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things;
.. in which are some things hard to be understood,
.... which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest,
...... as they do also the other scriptures,
........ unto their own destruction.'

* Galatians was written before Romans, and yet in Romans the Jew is spoken of as 'first', and this does not alter until the nation of Israel went away into the blindness of unbelief at the end of the Acts period. Though there may have been unity among Jew and Gentile, there was not equality, for salvation was of the Jew still (John 4:22); salvation being not finally 'sent' to the Jew until Acts 28:28.

* In Galatians 3:28, Paul said, 'There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.' Yes, in Christ Jesus, they were one in regard to their 'sonship' and 'inheritance', which is the subject of the context in which these words come in Galatians. But they were still grafted into the Olive Tree of Israel, and therefore the Jew still had prior place, and salvation was still of the Jew.

* The inheritance that both Jew and Gentile shared 'in Christ' as part of Israel's Olive Tree, was quite different to that of the church which is the Body of Christ, which I identify myself with, which came into being following Israel's final rejection of Christ as their Messiah and King at Acts 28, Divinely made known to Paul, and through Him to us, by means of the epistles written following, to the Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon.

* The Hebrew believers had been brought to faith through the ministry of Christ Himself, and following His death, through those that had heard Him, namely the Twelve. Whose message was tailored to them, as Paul's message was ministered with the Gentile in mind. They had come from a background of law, whereas I, as a believing Gentile have not for example.

* This is a complex subject, isn't it, Nancy? and I do not claim to have all the answers, but by comparing what is written in the epistles written prior to Israel's final rejection of Christ, and those that followed, the differences stand out in bold relief.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

​

This is good to understand, that I won’t have to worry about fleeing into the mountains near Judea.

Thanks!

 

[Nancy]

Hi @Nancy,

I am so glad you asked this.
They were believers, yes, part of Israel's Olive tree. Gentiles being grafted in approx. 10 years following Pentecost (Acts 10), in the hope of engendering life into that ailing tree.

The truth concerning the church which is the Body of Christ was not made known by revelation to Paul until the end of the period covered by the Acts of the Apostles. While this epistle was probably written in about AD 53-54, in the early part of his ministry, when Paul was in Corinth (Acts 18:11). Peter spoke of Paul having written to the Hebrew believers in 2 Peter 3:15-16:-

'And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation;
.. even as our beloved brother Paul also
.... according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things;
.. in which are some things hard to be understood,
.... which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest,
...... as they do also the other scriptures,
........ unto their own destruction.'

* Galatians was written before Romans, and yet in Romans the Jew is spoken of as 'first', and this does not alter until the nation of Israel went away into the blindness of unbelief at the end of the Acts period. Though there may have been unity among Jew and Gentile, there was not equality, for salvation was of the Jew still (John 4:22); salvation being not finally 'sent' to the Jew until Acts 28:28.

* In Galatians 3:28, Paul said, 'There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.' Yes, in Christ Jesus, they were one in regard to their 'sonship' and 'inheritance', which is the subject of the context in which these words come in Galatians. But they were still grafted into the Olive Tree of Israel, and therefore the Jew still had prior place, and salvation was still of the Jew.

* The inheritance that both Jew and Gentile shared 'in Christ' as part of Israel's Olive Tree, was quite different to that of the church which is the Body of Christ, which I identify myself with, which came into being following Israel's final rejection of Christ as their Messiah and King at Acts 28, Divinely made known to Paul, and through Him to us, by means of the epistles written following, to the Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon.

* The Hebrew believers had been brought to faith through the ministry of Christ Himself, and following His death, through those that had heard Him, namely the Twelve. Whose message was tailored to them, as Paul's message was ministered with the Gentile in mind. They had come from a background of law, whereas I, as a believing Gentile have not for example.

* This is a complex subject, isn't it, Nancy? and I do not claim to have all the answers, but by comparing what is written in the epistles written prior to Israel's final rejection of Christ, and those that followed, the differences stand out in bold relief.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

​

Hi Chris,
There is a ton of stuff in your posts, so...I will only be taking certain things to reply to :)

"* The inheritance that both Jew and Gentile shared 'in Christ' as part of Israel's Olive Tree, was quite different to that of the church which is the Body of Christ, which I identify myself with, which came into being following Israel's final rejection of Christ as their Messiah and King at Acts 28, Divinely made known to Paul, and through Him to us, by means of the epistles written following, to the Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon."

Yes, the Jews were/ARE God's chosen people and always will be. If it were not for them, would we gentiles have ever been invited to the wedding supper of The Lamb?
Iv'e only vague ideas as to what the Jews final destination will be but, it will somehow be different than the body/Church?
Okay, I can see this. After the un-believing Jews rejected Christ...the Gospel was then open to Gentiles, with Paul ushering it in. To make God's chosen jealous... This was perhaps the start of the "times of the gentiles"?

And yes, I find most subjects beyond the milk can be complex, lol...just never had good study habits and how i wish I had them.


"but by comparing what is written in the epistles written prior to Israel's final rejection of Christ, and those that followed, the differences stand out in bold relief."

Yes, I can see this too as, the epistles were written throughout and after Acts. I'm not so good at dates but, would make a good personal short study.

In His Name,
nancy

 

[Waiting on him]

Hi Chris,
There is a ton of stuff in your posts, so...I will only be taking certain things to reply to :)

"* The inheritance that both Jew and Gentile shared 'in Christ' as part of Israel's Olive Tree, was quite different to that of the church which is the Body of Christ, which I identify myself with, which came into being following Israel's final rejection of Christ as their Messiah and King at Acts 28, Divinely made known to Paul, and through Him to us, by means of the epistles written following, to the Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon."

Yes, the Jews were/ARE God's chosen people and always will be. If it were not for them, would we gentiles have ever been invited to the wedding supper of The Lamb?
Iv'e only vague ideas as to what the Jews final destination will be but, it will somehow be different than the body/Church?
Okay, I can see this. After the un-believing Jews rejected Christ...the Gospel was then open to Gentiles, with Paul ushering it in. To make God's chosen jealous... This was perhaps the start of the "times of the gentiles"?

And yes, I find most subjects beyond the milk can be complex, lol...just never had good study habits and how i wish I had them.


"but by comparing what is written in the epistles written prior to Israel's final rejection of Christ, and those that followed, the differences stand out in bold relief."

Yes, I can see this too as, the epistles were written throughout and after Acts. I'm not so good at dates but, would make a good personal short study.

In His Name,
nancy

What is the milk referenced in Hebrews would in my opinion also make for a good short study?

 

[Joseph77]

So?
Who does Scripture say IS UNCLEAN ?
Children with a believing parent,
OR
children without any believing parent ?

A 9 year old's brain, intellectual ability, and emotions are not fully developed until the age of 25, so even if you rejected Christ as a 9 year old, you could not have known clearly what you were doing, and the implications of it.

 

[Joseph77]

So-called religious experts, scholars, may have debated that one point for centuries without coming to agreement.
Many visitors to the internet will never come to an agreement.

How would it be possible, then, to learn what God wants someone to learn ? (and know that they know it is truth)

What is the milk referenced in Hebrews would in my opinion also make for a good short study?

 

[Paul Christensen]

So?
Who does Scripture say IS UNCLEAN ?
Children with a believing parent,
OR
children without any believing parent ?

Because God has no grandchildren, every child, whether of believing or unbelieving parents is a sinner who needs to turn to Christ of his own volition after being enlightened of the gospel through the work of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Joseph77]

Because God has no grandchildren, every child, whether of believing or unbelieving parents is a sinner who needs to turn to Christ of his own volition after being enlightened of the gospel through the work of the Holy Spirit.

So which children are clean, and which children are unclean, in accordance with all Scripture (practically a quote- directly) ....

 

[Joseph77]

So which children are clean, and which children are unclean, in accordance with all Scripture (practically a quote- directly) ....

I experimented with a duck (duck go ) :) to see the search results (0.01 seconds)

results for children are clean, and which children are unclean, in accordance with all scripture. ?
Unclean Children? - Grace thru faith

Unclean Children? – Grace thru faith
Apostle Paul said it clearly, "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy" (I Corinthians 7:14). So then a child of 2 unbelievers is "unclean" and may not go in the Rapture because the parents make the children holy?
Clean or Unclean? Children's Sermon | Sermons4Kids

Clean or Unclean? Children's Sermon
"All of you listen. It's not what goes into your body that makes you unclean, it is the bad words that come out of your mouth. Out of your hearts come evil thoughts, greed, cheating, and envy. This is what makes you unclean." The people of Jesus' day were more concerned about having clean hands than they were about having a clean heart.
Leviticus 11 LEB - Clean and Unclean Animals - Then Yahweh ...

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 11 - Lexham English Bible
Leviticus 11 Lexham English Bible (LEB) Clean and Unclean Animals. 11 Then [] Yahweh spoke to Moses and to Aaron, saying to them, 2 "Speak to the Israelites, [] saying, 'These are the animals that you may eat from all the animals that are on the land: 3 Any among the animals that has a divided hoof and has a split cleft in [] the hoof, such [] you may eat.
1 Corinthians 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is ...

1 Corinthians 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his believing wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy.
Otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy. New Heart English Bible For the unbelieving husband is sanctified in the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the brother. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. Aramaic Bible in Plain English

 

[Waiting on him]

So-called religious experts, scholars, may have debated that one point for centuries without coming to agreement.
Many visitors to the internet will never come to an agreement.

How would it be possible, then, to learn what God wants someone to learn ? (and know that they know it is truth)

Maybe it's as simple as looking at who the letter is addressed to? Are you a Hebrew?

 

[Joseph77]

Maybe it's as simple as looking at who the letter is addressed to? Are you a Hebrew?

You wish it was that simple. It is actually simpler. :)

 

[Joseph77]

Colossians 1:12-13 Giving thanks to the Father, which has made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance [the earth is our inheritance] of the saints in light [truth]; who has delivered us from the power of darkness [Satan, evil], and has translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son.

 

[Joseph77]

Jesus the Bread of Life
22The next day, the crowd that had remained on the other side of the sea realized that only one boat had been there, and that Jesus had not boarded it with His disciples, but they had gone away alone. 23However, some boats from Tiberias arrived near the place they had eaten the bread after the Lord had given thanks. 24So when the crowd saw that neither Jesus nor His disciples were there, they got into the boats and went to Capernaum to look for Him. 25When they found Him on the other side of the sea, they asked Him, “Rabbi, when did You get here?”
26Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, it is not because you saw these signs that you are looking for Me, but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. 27Do not work for food that perishes, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on Him God the Father has placed His seal of approval.”
28Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?”
29Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”
30So they asked Him, “What sign then will You perform, so that we may see it and believe You? What will You do? 31Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’d ”
32Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I tell you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
34“Sir,” they said, “give us this bread at all times.”
35Jesus answered, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to Me will never hunger, and whoever believes in Me will never thirst. 36But as I told you, you have seen Me and still you do not believe.
37Everyone the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me.

 

[Joseph77]

Study Bible
Jesus' Prayer of Thanksgiving
20Nevertheless, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.” 21At that time, Jesus rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was well-pleasing in Your sight. 22All things have been entrusted to Me by My Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him.”…
Berean Study Bible · Download

 

[Joseph77]

John 14:1-20 (KJV) Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
Colossians 1:12-22 (KJV) Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
In the body of his flesh through death,


to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

 

[Joseph77]

CSB
For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride in one’s possessions—is not from the Father, but is from the world.
CEB
Everything that is in the world—the craving for whatever the body feels, the craving for whatever the eyes see and the arrogant pride in one’s possessions—is not of the Father but is of the world.
CJB
because all the things of the world — the desires of the old nature, the desires of the eyes, and the pretensions of life — are not from the Father but from the world.


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[Waiting on him]

You wish it was that simple. It is actually simpler. :)

Is this the part where you tell me you have the special sauce?

 

[Joseph77]

Is this the part where you tell me you have the special sauce?

I tried it - it causes diarrhea....

 

[Waiting on him]

I tried it - it causes diarrhea....

Ask you a question, why do you believe Jesus was sweating these drops of blood when petitioning The Father in the garden to remove the cup?