Are the Ten Commandments Taught in the New Testament?

[seekandfind]

Are the ten commandments in the New Testament? Yes they are.

1. You shall have no other gods before me

Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

2. You shall not make idols or bow down to them or worship them

Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

3. You shall not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain

Matthew 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

4. Remember the Sabbath to keep it holy

Acts 13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Acts 16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.

Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

5. Honor your father and your mother

Romans 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Romans 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Ephesians 6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
Ephesians 6:2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;
Ephesians 6:3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

6. You shall not kill

James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

1 Peter 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.

1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

7. You shall not commit adultery
James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Matthew 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Romans 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

8. You shall not steal

Ephesians 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

1 Peter 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.

9. You shall not bear false witness

Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Ephesians 4:25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

10. You shall not covet

Luke 12:15 And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Ephesians 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

THE Great Commandment:

Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Matthew 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Matthew 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Also included in the Law of Moses:

Deuteronomy 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

 

[Mungo]

The quotes that you give are instructions EXCEPT for the 4th commandment.

Those quotes are just recording that the Jews met on the Sabbath.

No surprise that because the Sabbath command was just for the Jews as a sign of their covenant. There is no instruction for Christians to observe the Sabbath.

Also included in the Law of Moses (just after Lev 19:18 that you quote above)
"do not breed any of your domestic animals with others of a different species; do not sow a field of yours with two different kinds of seed; and do not put on a garment woven with two different kinds of thread." (Lev 19:19) Are we expected to keep that?

Also from Lev 19:
Do not clip your hair at the temples, nor trim the edges of your beard. (vs 27). Are we expected to keep that?

 

[jiggyfly]

The quotes that you give are instructions EXCEPT for the 4th commandment.

Those quotes are just recording that the Jews met on the Sabbath.

No surprise that because the Sabbath command was just for the Jews as a sign of their covenant. There is no instruction for Christians to observe the Sabbath.

Also included in the Law of Moses (just after Lev 19:18 that you quote above)
"do not breed any of your domestic animals with others of a different species; do not sow a field of yours with two different kinds of seed; and do not put on a garment woven with two different kinds of thread." (Lev 19:19) Are we expected to keep that?

Also from Lev 19:
Do not clip your hair at the temples, nor trim the edges of your beard. (vs 27). Are we expected to keep that?

Great questions and I am curious to see the response(s).

 

[HammerStone]

Well, in consideration of the OP's title, I don't think so, because none of those ordinances are part of the Ten Commandments, correct?

 

[Mungo]

Well, in consideration of the OP's title, I don't think so, because none of those ordinances are part of the Ten Commandments, correct?

Neither was the second part of the OP about "The Great Commandment".

However I take your point about the OP title.

It will be interesting to see what the reply is to my point about the 4th commandment.

 

[seekandfind]

The quotes that you give are instructions EXCEPT for the 4th commandment.

Those quotes are just recording that the Jews met on the Sabbath.

No surprise that because the Sabbath command was just for the Jews as a sign of their covenant. There is no instruction for Christians to observe the Sabbath.

Also included in the Law of Moses (just after Lev 19:18 that you quote above)
"do not breed any of your domestic animals with others of a different species; do not sow a field of yours with two different kinds of seed; and do not put on a garment woven with two different kinds of thread." (Lev 19:19) Are we expected to keep that?

Also from Lev 19:
Do not clip your hair at the temples, nor trim the edges of your beard. (vs 27). Are we expected to keep that?

Are you referring to the verses where the discussion was about what commandments to give to the Gentiles?

Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

I just posted what the verse said itself. I didn’t give opinions.

Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Paul directly showed how we love others. Love doesn't work any ill to his neighbor. If we love our neighbor we will not steal from him, we will not bear false witness against him, we will not covet anything that is his, and he added, "and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, love they neighbor as thyself, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

I think that is very clear in explaining what loving others means.

Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

[Mungo]

Are you referring to the verses where the discussion was about what commandments to give to the Gentiles?

Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

I used a few choice verses for each commandment to show that they are indeed shown in the New Testament.

You have shown that the Jews kept the Sabbath - but that is to be expected. None of the verses quoted instruct Christians to keep the Sabbath

It was Paul’s practice to in a town go first to preach to the Jews. Naturally this would be on the Sabbath because this is when Jews congregate. Hw would not have had much of an audience on other days.

Acts 13:43-44 – Paul is speaking to Jews and God-fearers in the synagogue and is invited back on the following Sabbath.
This says nothing about Christians observing the Sabbath.

Acts 16:13 – As this was a Roman colony (vs 12) there would not have been a synagogue sp Paul goes to where they were praying.
This says nothing about Christians observing the Sabbath.

Acts 15:20-21 – This says nothing about Christians keeping the Sabbath.

 

[Sr.Brandon]

To answer the threads opening question simply: Yes.

Most don't argue with this except for that pesky fourth command. For some odd reason this is the only command people argue with from my experience. (Except, of course, for our catholic friends. The Catholic Church has so graciously removed the command not make idols from the ten in the old testament in their bibles.)
If you were to look in Hebrews 4 the word 'sabbatismos' appears there as compared to and in contrast to the Greek word for 'rest' used before and after.
Here is what Thayer and Strong say about this word:

G4520

Original: σαββατισμός Transliteration: sabbatismos Phonetic: sab-bat-is-mos' Thayer Definition:

1. a keeping sabbath 2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians

Origin: from a derivative of G4521 TDNT entry: 07:35,0 Part(s) of speech: Noun Masculine Strong's Definition: From a derivative of G4521; a " sabbatism", that is, (figuratively) the repose of Christianity (as a type of heaven): - rest.

I, therefore, contend that it is in better keeping to render this verse as, "So then there remains a Sabbath keeping to the people of God." This does not violate scripture but upholds the harmony between Old and New Testaments.
However, I, for one, don't argue that you can't meet on Sunday. It does not matter to me if you meet in house on Saturday or in a house with the word 'church' on it on Sunday. It is not the brick and mortar that makes a place of fellowship, it is the people. It doesn't matter what day of the week you meet for fellowship as long as you are devoted to the fellowship.
Therefore, to me, the writer of Hebrews states, as if it was common sense, that there is a Sabbath keeping for us today.

 

[Mungo]

The Catholic Church has so graciously removed the command not make idols from the ten in the old testament in their bibles.

That's a cheap jibe and it's not true.

Heb 4:9
I find it a bit dubious when people claim a personal translation of the Bible is correct and all the others done by experts are wrong.


Paul says “Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.” (Col 2:16-17).
Paul did not expect anyone to keep the Sabbath or be judged for not keeping it. It was a shadow of what was to come in Christ

 

[Sr.Brandon]

That's a cheap jibe and it's not true.

Heb 4:9
I find it a bit dubious when people claim a personal translation of the Bible is correct and all the others done by experts are wrong.


Paul says “Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.” (Col 2:16-17).
Paul did not expect anyone to keep the Sabbath or be judged for not keeping it. It was a shadow of what was to come in Christ

After your comment about my statement not being true, I went looking. In my bible given to me years ago by my Catholic grandma, the verse about no graven images and no idols was not in there. We've been moving so most books are packed or I would look at the copyright dates. Therefore, I went online looking at a different scripture translations accepted by Catholic Church. It's there now, I retract that previous statement.
Dubious or not, my statement is backed by scholarship and I know of at least one translation which does say Sabbath keeping.
No matter the source, however, you must deal with the argument. If you keep attacking whether or not the source is acceptable to you then you will be committing a logical fallacy.
Your comment about Paul are based on your own prejudices because it proceeds to declare something without backing it up.
If what I am saying is true and tenable, then the scripture you write backs up Hebrews. It would then not be me judging but the Word of Yahweh. My judgement must line up with scripture.

 

[Mungo]

After your comment about my statement not being true, I went looking. In my bible given to me years ago by my Catholic grandma, the verse about no graven images and no idols was not in there. We've been moving so most books are packed or I would look at the copyright dates. Therefore, I went online looking at a different scripture translations accepted by Catholic Church. It's there now, I retract that previous statement.

Just for information on the commandments, the claim that Catholics do not include the bit about graven images arises because of the way they are compiled.

There are actually 12 commandments.

Deuteronomy 5:7-21
1. You shall not have other gods besides me.
2. You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth;
3. You shall not bow down before them or worship them. For I, the Lord, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishments for their fathers’ wickedness on the children of those who hate me, down to the third and fourth generation but bestowing mercy, down to the thousandth generation, on the children of those who love me and keep my commandments.
4. You shall not take the name of the Lord, your God, in vain. For the Lord will not leave unpunished him who takes his name in vain.
5. Take care to keep holy the sabbath day as the Lord, your God, commanded you. Six days you may labour and do all your work; but the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord, your God. No work may be done then, whether by you, or your son or daughter, or your male or female slave, or your ox or ass or any of your beasts, or the alien who lives with you. Your male and female slave should rest as you do. For remember that you too were once slaves in Egypt, and the Lord, your God, brought you from there with his strong hand and outstretched arm. That is why the Lord, your God, has commanded you to observe the sabbath day.
6. Honour your father and your mother, as the Lord, your God, has commanded you, that you may have a long life and prosperity in the land which the Lord, your God, is giving you.
7. You shall not kill.
8. You shall not commit adultery.
9. You shall not steal.
10. You shall not bear dishonest witness against your neighbor.
11. You shall not covet your neighbour’s wife.
12. You shall not desire your neighbour’s house or field, nor his male or female slave, nor his ox or ass, nor anything that belongs to him.

The list in Exodus 20:3-17 is similar

In each list there are actually 12 commandments. To get down to ten some have to be conflated.

Catholics, Lutherans and Jews conflate 1,2 &3, presumably because they all concern the same topic. Protestants (except Lutherans) & Orthodox conflate 2&3 and 11&12

Jews actually conflate 11&12 as well which would appear to leave them with nine. However they count "I, the Lord, am your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery." (Ex 20:1) as a commandment (so I have read).

Dubious or not, my statement is backed by scholarship and I know of at least one translation which does say Sabbath keeping.
No matter the source, however, you must deal with the argument. If you keep attacking whether or not the source is acceptable to you then you will be committing a logical fallacy.
Your comment about Paul are based on your own prejudices because it proceeds to declare something without backing it up.
If what I am saying is true and tenable, then the scripture you write backs up Hebrews. It would then not be me judging but the Word of Yahweh. My judgement must line up with scripture.

I have consulted 9 Bibles (KJV, NAB, RSV, NIV, Amplified, HCSB, YLT, NRSV, ASV) and all say sabbath rest or rest. That is not surprising as the argument the writer is making is about God's rest. Your translation contrasts to the overhwelming opinion that it means rest.

As to juding it against scripture you are judging your opinion of how a word should be translated against the overwhelming opinion of experts as to how it should be translated.

As to Paul. He said “Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.” (Col 2:16-17).

How do you avoid coming to the conclusion that he is saying do not judge anyone regarding Sabbaths.


What about rest? Jesus said that we now find our rest in him.
"Come to me, all you who labour and are burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am meek and humble of heart; and you will find rest for your selves." (Mt 11:28-29). The Sabbath rest is fulfilled in Christ. This is why Jesus declared himself the Lord of the Sabbath (Mt 12:8).


Added:
“Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Master is able to make him stand. One man esteems one day as better than another, while another man esteems all days alike. Let every one be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it in honour of the Lord.” (Rom 14:4-6).
If Sabbath keeping was mandatory this is surely a place for Paul to mention it.

 

[JohnDB]

OK...but wouldn't it be more feasable to listen to what Jesus taught about the Ten Commandments?

The elephant in the room that everyone is kinda ignoring is the basic fact that just about everyone had a commentary written and the government/religious leaders had a commentary explaining what the Law meant.

They would stone some people for various violations of the Law.

So...for some reason Jesus himself thought it prudent to give his own commentary on the Decalogue. (fancy way of saying Ten commandments)

This commentary can be found in the Sermon on the Mount.
From that sermon all the parts of the Ten commandments can be seen as to what God really wants from us. The unique thing about it is that the focus of the Ten Commandments was/is/will always be a person's heart condition and not so much their actual actions. Yes, a person's actions will be crucial but the heart (where a person's emotions and logic meets with their actions) is the real focus of the Law.

And once again we see the real reason The Sabbath Day is always written as a singular and not a collective singular (written as plural in Hebrew or Greek and it just isn't plural it is singular in those languages as well)
Jesus' Crucifixion Day. is The Sabbath Day from which we now rest.

And what is amazing is the promises that God still binds himself to if we follow the Law in it's spirit.

Blessed are the pure/holy/passionate of heart for they shall see/comprehend/know God.

 

[Mungo]

OK...but wouldn't it be more feasable to listen to what Jesus taught about the Ten Commandments?

The elephant in the room that everyone is kinda ignoring is the basic fact that just about everyone had a commentary written and the government/religious leaders had a commentary explaining what the Law meant.

They would stone some people for various violations of the Law.

So...for some reason Jesus himself thought it prudent to give his own commentary on the Decalogue. (fancy way of saying Ten commandments)

This commentary can be found in the Sermon on the Mount.
From that sermon all the parts of the Ten commandments can be seen as to what God really wants from us. The unique thing about it is that the focus of the Ten Commandments was/is/will always be a person's heart condition and not so much their actual actions. Yes, a person's actions will be crucial but the heart (where a person's emotions and logic meets with their actions) is the real focus of the Law.

And once again we see the real reason The Sabbath Day is always written as a singular and not a collective singular (written as plural in Hebrew or Greek and it just isn't plural it is singular in those languages as well)
Jesus' Crucifixion Day. is The Sabbath Day from which we now rest.

And what is amazing is the promises that God still binds himself to if we follow the Law in it's spirit.

Blessed are the pure/holy/passionate of heart for they shall see/comprehend/know God.

And where in the sermon on the mount does Jesus teach us to keep the Sabbath ?

 

[Sr.Brandon]

I have consulted 9 Bibles (KJV, NAB, RSV, NIV, Amplified, HCSB, YLT, NRSV, ASV) and all say sabbath rest or rest. That is not surprising as the argument the writer is making is about God's rest. Your translation contrasts to the overhwelming opinion that it means rest.

As to juding it against scripture you are judging your opinion of how a word should be translated against the overwhelming opinion of experts as to how it should be translated.

Truth is not measured by how many people agree. 4 billion people believe that the Messiah was not the savior of the world, expert and otherwise. Are you asserting that we should go along with the crowd due to shear number of experts and followers? Many times in the past have experts been wrong, should we decide truth based solely on what experts? How many times has the none expert seen the or had the truth but experts said he was wrong?
Truth its not arrived at by an expert telling you it is the truth. Truth is not arrived at by many experts telling you it is the truth. Truth is not measured by how many people agree.

As to Paul. He said “Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.” (Col 2:16-17).

How do you avoid coming to the conclusion that he is saying do not judge anyone regarding Sabbaths.

1st, I'm not avoiding anything. I don't fear if I'm wrong or right, I pray and hope that my thoughts and my actions line up to scripture. If right, then great. If wrong then I must humbly accept it. As I've already shown in this thread, I'm not afraid to retract, change or admit my failings.
2nd, who is Paul talking about judging us? Look in the prior verse, "Having stripped rulers and authorities, He made a show of them publicly, triumphing [over] them in it."
Therefore, because Messiah made a public spectacle of the rulers, authorities and experts, don't let anyone judge you on substances of Messiah which are shadows or foretastes of what is to come.
This is a good and tenable interpretation of the scripture you quote. It falls in more of a harmony with the rest of the context of those verses.

What about rest? Jesus said that we now find our rest in him.
"Come to me, all you who labour and are burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am meek and humble of heart; and you will find rest for your selves." (Mt 11:28-29). The Sabbath rest is fulfilled in Christ. This is why Jesus declared himself the Lord of the Sabbath (Mt 12:8).

Well, as no surprise, I disagree with this interpretation. The question has to be asked, what burden were the people already carrying that Messiah said he would take off them and give them his lighter yoke to carry?
The context of the verse you quote is that Yehushua is responding to unrepented sins.
The next thing I feel that needs to be mentioned that Yahweh's commands are not burdensome, 1Jn 5:3 ( For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments, and His commandments are not burdensome.)
Therefore, if the Sabbath keeping is commanded (still in effect), which is what we are disagreeing about, then keeping the Sabbath is not burdensome. It is a rest.

Added:
“Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Master is able to make him stand. One man esteems one day as better than another, while another man esteems all days alike. Let every one be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it in honour of the Lord.” (Rom 14:4-6).
If Sabbath keeping was mandatory this is surely a place for Paul to mention it.

They were having foolish arguments in this context, "For indeed one believes to eat all things; but being weak, [another] eats vegetables."-Rom 14:2
What I mean here is that, these were not disputes based on scripture but based on preferences. He likes meat, he is a vegetarian and both were trying to convince the other who was right. It would be like arguing which day of week is better than the rest due my own preferences.
Sabbath didn't come up because this wasn't a dispute over what is commanded but over preferences.

Another point of interest, Paul taught that all scripture is good for correction and reproving. If Sabbath is a standing command which has not been revoked then we are to correct and reprove other brothers and sisters in like accordance. But, this is our disagreement, whether Sabbath keeping is a command for us today which Hebrews 4:9 lends itself in favor of it being a command.
The two words used for rest in that context are, 'katapausis' and 'katapauō' besides the word we are disagreeing upon, 'sabbatismos'. (Respectively, the strong numbers are, 2663, 2664 and 4520.)
Notice the difference? This is why argument for Sabbath keeping can be made. If it was a future rest that the author of Hebrews was referring to then why not use katapausis or katapauō like you have already been doing? Why use an entirely different word which doesn't stem from Greek but from Hebrew if it means the same as the rest of the 'rest' words? If your talking to a Hebrew audience, like our author was, then using a word which contains the word Sabbath would justifies the meaning being Sabbath keeping. This is exact what my Bible does in the footnote by say, 'or Sabbath Keeping'. By the way, the Bible I'm referring to happens to be a KJV translation.
Therefore, the argument is not that the word means Sabbath keeping, which it does, but whether it should have been translated as Sabbath keeping instead of the word rest.
The argument for the rendering Sabbath keeping is stronger than just rest due to context, audience, original word usage and harmony between both older and newer testaments.

And where in the sermon on the mount does Jesus teach us to keep the Sabbath ?

By implication here in Mat 5:17-19 because after saying this he goes on to mention several things from the decalogue.

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Fulfill and destroy can't mean the same thing in practice. By that I mean you can say they are fulfilled so I don't have to do them, which would be the same results of them being destroyed, they're destroyed so I don't have to do them. His words would be meaningless if this was the case. This is why he later said great in heaven beef those who do those commands and teach those commands to others.

 

[Mungo]

Hi Sr. Brandon,

Thanks for your replies.

There is a lot there but I'm really busy this weekend so it will be Monday/Tuesday before I get back to you on them (but I will respond).

God bless

Mungo

 

[aspen]

Yes

the sum - love God and neighbor.

 

[Sr.Brandon]

Yes

the sum - love God and neighbor.

Absolutely aspen!
The sum does not negate what is being added together.

Lol, my post says 'beef' instead of 'will be' at the end. That is funny! I'm doing this all from my phone. I don't have my computer up and running yet nor do I have internet here except for my data plan. I tell you what this is hard to do on this phone.

 

[Mungo]

Truth is not measured by how many people agree. 4 billion people believe that the Messiah was not the savior of the world, expert and otherwise. Are you asserting that we should go along with the crowd due to shear number of experts and followers? Many times in the past have experts been wrong, should we decide truth based solely on what experts? How many times has the none expert seen the or had the truth but experts said he was wrong?
Truth its not arrived at by an expert telling you it is the truth. Truth is not arrived at by many experts telling you it is the truth. Truth is not measured by how many people agree.

Your example is not relevant. The experts we are talking about here are those that are Christians and committed to understanding the word of God, and who are also experts in the Greek language.

How do you come to the truth of what a particular Greek word mean?

Do you take the view of the vast majority of experts or one or two who disagree?

On what basis do you decide the one is right? On the basis that they fit in with your own views?



Let me make some points about Covenants and the Sabbath as a sign and then go on to some of your other responses.

God made a series of Covenant with mankind. Each Covenant has a sign as a reminder of the covenant. That sign was physical but it pointed to a future spiritual reality.

With the covenant with Noah the sign was a rainbow in the clouds. It pointed to the glory of God (see Ez 1:28) that one day we will see in heaven.

With the covenant with Abraham the sign was physical circumcision. It pointed to the future circumcision of the heart (Rom 2:28-29; Col 2:11)

With the Covenant with Moses the sign was the Sabbath rest. It pointed to a future spiritual rest in Christ (Mt 11:28 – I’ll come back to this)

With New Covenant the sign is the communion meal. It points to the wedding feast of the Lamb (Rev 19:9)

Hebrews tells us the things in the OT are only shadows of what was to come (see Heb 8:5; 10:1).
As Paul said, “Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath. These are shadows of things to come; the reality belongs to Christ.” (Col 2:16-17).

The Sabbath rest was a physical prefiguring or shadow of the spiritual rest we find in Jesus. Once we have the reality we do not need the shadow.

Let me take some of your replies:

Sabbatismos
You say “The two words used for rest in that context are, 'katapausis' and 'katapauō'” and ask why the writer did not use those words instead of sabbatismos if he meant rest? To which I ask, if he mean Sabbath day why did he not uses sabbaton?

You mention Strong’s number 4520. But what does Strong say under 4520?
“from a derivative of 4521; a "sabbatism", i.e. (figuratively) the repose of Christianity (as a type of heaven):--rest.” Strong does not say it is Sabbath keeping.

The argument in Heb 4 is that the Sabbath did not provide God’s rest. They did not enter God’s rest under Moses or Joshua. A rest still remains – “Therefore, a sabbath rest still remains for the people of God..” (vs 9).

Mt 11:28-29
I agree with you that context is important. However if we try to draw the context too tightly then very little of what Jesus said or Paul wrote becomes applicable to us as it was normally addressed to someone else. In his teaching Jesus starts with something particular and moves on the make a general point. He moves from berating the Jews to praising the Father (vs 25-27) and says in vs 27 “No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son wishes to reveal him.” (cf Jn 14:6).

He then invites us all to come to him for rest “Come to me, all you who labour and are burdened, and I will give you rest.”. We are all burdened by sin and anxiety. But it is in Jesus that we will find our true rest. Not just on one day but every day.

Col 2:16
You say “who is Paul talking about judging us? Look in the prior verse, "Having stripped rulers and authorities, He made a show of them publicly, triumphing [over] them in it."
Therefore, because Messiah made a public spectacle of the rulers, authorities and experts, don't let anyone judge you on substances of Messiah which are shadows or foretastes of what is to come”.

Paul is not referring to earthly rulers (and I note you slip in experts which is not in the text) but to spiritual powers and principalities, as in chap1:16.
It was the rulers of this earth that made a public spectacle of Jesus not the other way round.

Verse 15. That is the climax of his explanation that we have been buried with him and raised with him in baptism.
“Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath”
Having died with Christ and raised with Christ Paul says no-one can pass judgement on us. He does not say let none of those above pass judgement on us.

Paul goes on to make the point “These are shadows of things to come; the reality belongs to Christ.”

And in verse 20 he makes the point [sup]“[/sup]If you died with Christ to the elemental powers of the world, why do you submit to regulations as if you were still living in the world?”

Rom 14:4-6
Paul took a disagreement about something minor and broadened it out to make a general point. If one day were indeed more important than the rest – the Sabbath – then Paul would hardly give the impression that it wasn’t important.

And where in the sermon on the mount does Jesus teach us to keep the Sabbath ?

By implication here in Mat 5:17-19 because after saying this he goes on to mention several things from the decalogue.

That is a false argument. You cannot argue that because he mention some things he was implicitly mentioning them all.​

In the sermon on the mount Jesus also quotes several things that are not in the Decalogue!
For example:

• retaliation (5:38 from Ex 21:24; Lv 24:20
• divorce (5:31 from Dt 24;1)
• love of neighbour (5:43 from Lv 19:18)

Does that mean he was teaching us the keep the whole of the Mosaic Law? Obviously not​

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Fulfill and destroy can't mean the same thing in practice. By that I mean you can say they are fulfilled so I don't have to do them, which would be the same results of them being destroyed, they're destroyed so I don't have to do them. His words would be meaningless if this was the case. This is why he later said great in heaven beef those who do those commands and teach those commands to others.

It is quite clear that we are not bound by the Law of Moses. That is the premises of the OP - why seekandfind tried to show that all the Decalogue is found in the New Testament.

James said “For whoever keeps the whole law, but falls short in one particular, has become guilty in respect to all of it.” (Jas 2:10)

Paul in many places clearly says that we are not under the (Mosaic) Law. If you want to start arguing we are under the Law I suggest that is better done in another thread.

“one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”

“I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil”

Jesus fulfilled the Law. It has passed away.

“When there is a change of priesthood, there is necessarily a change of law as well.” (Heb 7:12)


“When he speaks of a “new” covenant, he declares the first one obsolete.””(Heb 8:13)

 

[veteran]

The quotes that you give are instructions EXCEPT for the 4th commandment.

Those quotes are just recording that the Jews met on the Sabbath.

No surprise that because the Sabbath command was just for the Jews as a sign of their covenant. There is no instruction for Christians to observe the Sabbath.

Also included in the Law of Moses (just after Lev 19:18 that you quote above)
"do not breed any of your domestic animals with others of a different species; do not sow a field of yours with two different kinds of seed; and do not put on a garment woven with two different kinds of thread." (Lev 19:19) Are we expected to keep that?

Also from Lev 19:
Do not clip your hair at the temples, nor trim the edges of your beard. (vs 27). Are we expected to keep that?

As Christians we separate the ordinances and religious ritual that was part of the Old Covenant religious system. That's what our Lord Jesus Christ nailed to His cross, the handwriting of ordinances that were against us. What's left are practical laws related to science, health, and laws involving judgments.

We can choose to heed what's left to help us have a better life, or we can disregard them and fall into traps. As for God's Ten Commandments, that never changed. It's just that we as Christians don't have to keep a certain day as a ritual religious sabbath. The only religious ritual we are to keep is Holy Communion and water baptism, and we're not commanded how often to do Holy Communion.

The idea not to mix crop seed is common sense. You don't sow a mixed bag of seed if you want a healthy crop. Hybrid seed does not produce as much nutrients science has learned. Afterall, it is science.

Lot of the clothing material today is from a mixture of types, causing some people to break out in a rash. That's why so many prefer 100% cotton, or at least underwear that's 100% cotton. It's science.

God commanding the priests to cleanse using 'running water' is a standard today with indoor plumbing, because it's a scientific fact that running water cleanses better than a stale body of water.

God said don't harvest the corners of your field, so the poor can eat. Some European nations (like Spain) still allow strangers to go into their crop fields and eat as much as they want, just can't carry it off in bushles. Not harvesting the corners helps prevent soil erosion. It's science.

Infectious diseases are to be quarantined per God's laws; no wonder we all prefer our own private hospital room. It's science.

Human waste is to be separated outside the living area per God's laws; it's science.

By the 8th day, an infant's build up of vitamin K is sufficient enough to cause blood clotting. God commanded circumcision 8 days after a son was born. It's science, as circumcision is still a healthy practice irregardless of its religious history.

We're not to eat animals that die of theirself, nor touch it. Science knows it means a disease killed the animal, and that diseases can be spread from a dead carcase.

God said don't eat the fat. We all well know what eating a lot of fat will do, clog up our arteries and cause heart failure.

God said don't drink the blood; it can contain diseases.

God commanded us to not drink from a stale vessel of water, or one that animals came in contact with. It's science.

God said don't eat scavenger animals. They contain poisons which they are able to process and we are not. God made scavengers to cleanse the earth, not as food for us. It's science.

God said to let the land rest one year in seven of planting. Insects winter in the stalks of last year's crop then hatch in the spring, and spring forth with laying eggs in the new crop. If no planting is done for one year in seven, the insects have nothing to subsist upon that dormant year, thereby controlling pests. It's science.

That's just a short list. There's much more written in God's Word that declares science involving astronomy, paleontology, meterology, biology, anthropology, hydrology, geology, physics, and a lot more which science hasn't even been able to get to yet.


Brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus, God's Word The Bible is not just a 'religious book'. It's The Book of Truth. That's why modern science can confirm so many factual truths written in God's Word.

I see too many trying to play 'religion' with God's Word, wanting to separate science in God's Word in one basket, and religion in another basket. That battle by men's traditions began centuries ago as a design to trap the gullible into their ways of thinking as a method of power control. Consider how the advertising industry works. The 'image' and 'presentation' is everything in that industry, for much of it is about the ability to prey on the gullible to trick them into buying a certain product, oftentimes a product we don't really need. And it's a multi-billion dollar industry.

The same thing has happened over time with many within men's religious systems trying to pick apart God's Word to separate the evidence of science which God included in it so they can push religiosity. It's that evidence of scientific fact which God put in His Word that involves His laws that are very much still in effect in His creation today.

 

[Sr.Brandon]

I will respond but right now I would like some clarity. What are we disagreeing about? The meaning of the word Sabbatismos or how the word should be translated?