"Are The Twelve apostles...

[Illuminator]

Matthew 28:19 And Jesus said unto them, “Verily I say unto you, that ye that have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man shall sit on the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

What was the question???

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Matthew 28:19 And Jesus said unto them, “Verily I say unto you, that ye that have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man shall sit on the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

What was the question???

Actually, there are TWO questions:

1) Were the Twelve apostles In the Body Of Christ? IF they were, then:

2 Why Did God Raise Up the ONE apostle, Paul?

 

[Illuminator]

Actually, there are TWO questions:

1) Were the Twelve apostles In the Body Of Christ?

Ephesians 2:20 says the Apostles are the foundation of the Church, so how could they not be in the body of Christ???
Let's not confuse that with 1 Cor. 3:11 – Jesus is called the only foundation of the Church. It's not a contradiction because it's a different metaphor for the church.

IF they were, then:

2 Why Did God Raise Up the ONE apostle, Paul?

Mainly to preach to the Gentiles. He cofounded the church in Rome with Peter. Remember that the 12 were promised thrones after the Ascension (Matthew 28:19) while Saul was persecuting Him on the way to Damascus. (Acts 9:4)

. The 12 Apostles were called directly by Jesus on earth; Paul was called directly by Jesus from heaven shortly after. Paul gets his authority from BOTH Peter and Jesus. Paul went to Peter, James and John to make sure his gospel was the same as theirs, (Acts 2:2) not the other way around. The notion that Paul was on his own, independent from the institutional church, has always been rejected as unbiblical. Note that Paul did not begin his ministry until after the laying on of hands by Ananias, a representative of the Church.

Acts 9:15 answers the question why Jesus raised up Paul:
13 But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem. 14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name.” 15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel. 16 For I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name.” 17 So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized; 19 and taking food, he was strengthened.

 

[strepho]

First Corinthians 12;4. Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same spirit. 12:5. And there are differences of administration, but the same Lord. 12:8. For to one is given by the spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge, by the same spirt. 12:12. For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body; so also is Christ. Thiers different offices and functions of the body of christ. Not everyone can be preacher. Some are good making money and help the poor. Others volunteer for soup kitchen. Others are evangelists, they plant seeds by converting people, and send them to a pastor or teacher. Evangelists teach milk of Gods word, but teacher's teach the latter rain, the meat of God's word . The apostles, prophets and priests, are part of body of christ. They laid the foundation, the ground work. Not everyone can have the holy spirit. Those who are called and chosen have holy spirit. First Corinthians 2:12. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirt which is of God; 2:13. Which things also we speak, not on the words which mans wisdom teach, but which the holy spirit teach; comparing spirtual things with spirtual. The difference between carnal minded people and spiritual people. Those who have spirit of slumber, and those who have holy spirit. Only few have holy spirit. Many people have sleeping spirtual sickness. 2:14. But the natural man received not the things of the spirit of God; for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them, because they are spirtualty Discerned. There you have it my friends. The holy spirit will never go against Gods word. When people examine someone's fruit, is it good fruit or bad fruit?? Were talking about sound doctrine or false doctrine. Fake shepherds don't have holy spirit. False doctrine goes against Gods truth. Get the picture.

 

[David in NJ]

...In The Body Of Christ?

In this article, we will ask the question, “Are the twelve apostles in the body
of Christ?” It is important here for the reader to understand that this question
is not whether the twelve apostles were saved or lost.

Rather, the question pertains to whether the twelve apostles were transferred
into the body of Christ when the new dispensation was revealed to Paul, or
whether they remained a part of Israel’s kingdom program.

A third alternative is that they obtained sort of a “dual hope,” receiving the
benefits and blessings of both the kingdom program and the dispensation of
Grace.

To some, the question itself may seem irrelevant or even ridiculous, much like
the proverbial debates of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
But before examining the Evidence of Scripture on the subject, let us first show
the importance of the issue.

It certainly would not matter to us whether God chose to place the twelve
apostles into the body or not. God can do as He pleases, and it would not
affect the wonderful blessings of Grace which we enjoy as members of the
body of Christ.

However, seeing the twelve apostles (and all kingdom saints living at the time)
as part of the body of Christ raises HUGE questions with regard to their teachings
and writings.

For example, if Peter was added to the body of Christ after the dispensation of
Grace was revealed to Paul, are we to take Peter’s epistles as instructions to the
body of Christ?

Are we to understand that Peter is telling the body of Christ that we are “a
royal priesthood, (and) an holy nation” (1 Peter 2:9a)? If so, what “nation” are
we? And how does Peter’s statement that “baptism doth also now save us”
(1 Peter 3:21a) square with Paul’s affirmation that Christ sent him “not to
baptize, but to preach the gospel” (1 Cor. 1:17a)?

And with regard to the return of Christ, Peter has his readers “Looking for and
hastening unto the coming day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall
be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat” (2 Peter 3:12),
whereas Paul tells us to be

“Looking for that Blessed Hope, and The Glorious Appearing of
The Great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ” (Titus 2:13).

...The two positions regarding this question are known as the “twelve in” and the
“twelve-out” positions. In answering the question of whether the twelve apostles
were added to the body of Christ we will present Scriptural Evidence..."

[in the 'link' below, ending with:]

"...one final question: If it was God’s plan to transfer the twelve apostles into
the body of Christ when Israel rejected the kingdom offer, and then
use them to teach, instruct, and write to the body of Christ in their
epistles, WHY DID GOD RAISE UP THE APOSTLE PAUL?
"
(J Finck)

FULL study:
Are The Twelve apostles In The Body Of Christ?

Precious friend(s):

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II)!

The twelve Apostles were part of the Body of Christ when the Lord chose them, except for Judas.

This is CLEAR from the Gospel and NT Scripture.

Then a dispute arose between John’s disciples and a certain Jew over the issue of ceremonial washing. 26So John’s disciples came to him and said, “Look, Rabbi, the One who was with you beyond the Jordan, the One you testified about—He is baptizing, and everyone is going to Him.”
27John replied, “A man can receive only what is given him from heaven. 28You yourselves can testify that I said, ‘I am not the Christ, but am sent ahead of Him.’ 29The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom stands and listens for him, and is overjoyed to hear the bridegroom’s voice.

For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 14For in fact the body is not one member but many.

Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually

 

[GRACE ambassador]

First Corinthians 12;4. Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same spirit. 12:5 ...Get the picture.

Precious friend, Thanks, and A Very Warm Welcome to the Board.

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided! (+ I and II!)

Grace, Peace, And JOY!...

 

[amigo de christo]

This is a TOTALLY POINTLESS question. If anything the twelve apostles (Judas excepted and Paul included) were the first to be placed into the Body of Christ. They received the Holy Ghost on the day of Christ's resurrection! And it is the Holy Spirit who "baptizes" or immerses believers into the Body of Christ. Why would anyone even ask such a question, since the apostles would not be very pleased with such questions?

correct Judas was ousted , but Mathias replaced him . its in the beginning of acts .
And if we read farther along we see it also says the APOSTLES barnabas and paul . Sounds like barnabas was also an apostle .
They cast lots for the twelfth apostle. He had to be one who had been a witness of Christ and His ressurection .
It came down between two men . mathias got the Lot .

 

[amigo de christo]

If we read the BIBLE . We see the twelve apostels are the foundation with CHRIST as the corner stone .
FROM THIS all the church proceeds . Who on earth would even THINK the twelve apostels were not part of that body .
This generation needs a fast return to bibles .

 

[amigo de christo]

Now let all that has breath praise the glorious Lord .

 

[David in NJ]

If we read the BIBLE . We see the twelve apostels are the foundation with CHRIST as the corner stone .
FROM THIS all the church proceeds . Who on earth would even THINK the twelve apostels were not part of that body .
This generation needs a fast return to bibles .

Absolutely crazy and even heresy to say that the Apostles were not part of the Body of Christ.

But this is how heresies began = by ever so slightly drifting from the Holy Scriptures.

For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” 18And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.
19[And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts;
20knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,
21for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

 

[amigo de christo]

Absolutely crazy and even heresy to say that the Apostles were not part of the Body of Christ.

But this is how heresies began = by ever so slightly drifting from the Holy Scriptures.

For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” 18And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.
19[And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts;
20knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,
21for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

Exactly . so many twist the scrips unto their own destruction . heeding decievers who know how
to spin lies as a spider does webs .

 

[amigo de christo]

but the lambs heed not the decievers . They follow the voice of the great shepard who guides them into Truth .
Let all praise the LORD and take heed for many decievers abound .

 

[Enoch111]

It came down between two men . mathias got the Lot .

But Matthias did not get to write more than half the New Testament. In fact he effectively "disappeared". So Matthias is definitely not the 12th apostle (and there are only twelve apostles of the Lamb). And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. (Rev 21:14)

Do we have further corroboration that there are only twelve apostles of the Lamb, and that Paul was chosen from his mother's womb to be the 12th apostle? Absolutely.
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Mt 19:28)


But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: (Gal 1:15,16)

 

[amigo de christo]

But Matthias did not get to write more than half the New Testament. In fact he effectively "disappeared". So Matthias is definitely not the 12th apostle (and there are only twelve apostles of the Lamb). And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. (Rev 12:14)

Do we have further corroboration that there are only twelve apostles of the Lamb, and that Paul was chosen from his mother's womb to be the 12th apostle? Absolutely.
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Mt 19:28)


But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: (Gal 1:15,16)

Its says in acts that mathias was counted in as the twelve .
I know paul was an apostel himself . But not of the twelve .
And praise GOD he did labor more abundantely than all , yet not Him but the grace of GOD in him .
The bible itself , the book of acts clearly says and He , mathias , was numbered in with the twelve .
I do agree that paul was an apostle for sure and for certain . Every letter in that bible is for our good .
Paul came later . And he sure did labor unto the glorious Lord . He just aint one of the twelve .

 

[David in NJ]

But Matthias did not get to write more than half the New Testament. In fact he effectively "disappeared". So Matthias is definitely not the 12th apostle (and there are only twelve apostles of the Lamb). And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. (Rev 21:14)

Do we have further corroboration that there are only twelve apostles of the Lamb, and that Paul was chosen from his mother's womb to be the 12th apostle? Absolutely.
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Mt 19:28)


But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: (Gal 1:15,16)

imho = Agree

 

[MatthewG]

Probably; and also the 144,000 which was the first church bride of Christ that was foretold to be spotless and blameless.

Judas was cut off; mattahias was picked by casting of lots; but Paul was taught by the resurrected Lord.

I don’t know if any church today that is like this, which is spotless and blameless as those the first century church.

 

[David in NJ]

Probably; and also the 144,000 which was the first church bride of Christ that was foretold to be spotless and blameless.

Judas was cut off; mattahias was picked by casting of lots; but Paul was taught by the resurrected Lord.

I don’t know if any church today that is like this, which is spotless and blameless as those the first century church.

What do you mean by "first church bride of Christ" ???

 

[MatthewG]

What do you mean by "first church bride of Christ" ???

Those who were first to believe in Christ.

Eph 1:12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.

The apostles had apostolic authority over it by the Lord as far as I can see.

 

[David in NJ]

Those who were first to believe in Christ.

Eph 1:12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.

The apostles had apostolic authority over it by the Lord as far as I can see.

Ephesians does not speak of 144k believers but speaks of all believers who are in Christ = Past/Present/Future

Do you have something else that directly connects to Rev 144k?

 

[MatthewG]

People can say what they want.

Disagree or agree.

That is up to you.