Where I was going with this is are we judged on earth today, and upon our Lord's Return judged again on earth? Honestly, forget?
Old Jack
Old Jack
Are We Judged Today Via The Word Or?
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Generally speaking there will be three judgmentsshturt678 said:
First we come before the throne of god and he asks what we did with his son
Those who believe go to the right (saved) , those who did not believe go to the left (unsaved)
There is another judgement for the christian believer , which is a handing out of rewards for good works while on earth .... people who have not done a lot of good works will not receive rewards , but they are still in heaven (good) .... sins are forgiven
Same as the unbelievers and evil people , they will be judged and punished according to the things done wrong while on earth , but no forgiveness for them , and they are not in heaven
Thank you for your response!Arnie Manitoba said:
You jarred my memory, thank you. Jn.12:48a I was thinking the Word is the judge today (before one passes while on earth) of also a believer, ie, once that a believer hears that Word in truth - IIThess.2:10b, or an adamant disbeliever hears?
Hate those memory lapses,
Old Jack
Yes , it appears we have to make our decisions when we are alive here on earthshturt678 said:
In other words , we ourselves are the judges of our future
There is something profoundly "fair" about that
No mean old god sitting on a throne sending people to heaven or hell , we decide it ourselves , and we do it right now . and we cant blame anybody but ourselves
Adam and Eve made the wrong choise for us and now we are born condemned. But Jesus made a way of forgivness by dieing for our sins. Now we only have to believe in Jesus as our Lord and he will save us.Arnie Manitoba said:
John 3:16-18
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Thank you for your response again!Arnie Manitoba said:
Loosely speaking, agreeing to agree
Old Jack
We decide whether or not we want to have an agape for the actual Biblical "Truth" when we bump into it, or view that inconvenient and uncomfortable "Truth" as fallacious, is my take on it. Then our Lord makes His decision.
I'm unable to see the last judgment (public) at the last day held on this earth, however do see with my very finite mind a public judgment held upon earth united to heaven. This, to me, says that there's a secred judgment upon each one's passing, public at the end of time sort of thing.
Old Jack just thinking (like "talking" more - lol) out loud again.
Thank you for caring!Eric E Stahl said:
I only wanted to make a comment on "now we are born condemned" part. Our Lord doesn't tell us what happens to those (those aborted to new borns for example) that never have confronted enough Biblical "Truth" that can save a soul ("natural theology" which most click up, won't comport - have to find passages that deal with "conversion theology."
Old Jack
When Jesus returns the scripture says He has His rewards already for us. The angels (see Rev.14 and several parables eg the wheat and tares) divide the wicked from the saved. How do the angels know who is on what side unless a judgement of some kind has already taken place before Jesus comes?....that is while weare yet alive!!!
You are most likely right , I think our rewards are accumulated as we go along in life.brakelite said:
Thank you folks for caring!
So I had better line my ducks up now, and not wait till the last minute.
Old Jack getting it together now so that I awake in the right place resulting in sitting on the 'right' side.
So I had better line my ducks up now, and not wait till the last minute.
Old Jack getting it together now so that I awake in the right place resulting in sitting on the 'right' side.
I wasn't referring to rewards for good works Arnie...I was referring to the ultimate reward of eternal life. Our final liberation comes at Christ's return. The angels divide the wicked first from the world,and they are destroyed or killed (by the brightness of His coming) until the end of the 1000years, when they are raised to face their final sentencing. The second death. (The actual judicial judgement regarding their ultimate fitness for heaven andtheir final destiny has already been decided before the second coming.)Arnie Manitoba said:
Thus any decision regarding the salvation or destruction of all who have ever lived must have been made prior to the second coming. In other words, that judgement I believe is taking place now. (As I do not believe anyone is in either heaven or hell, yet. Except for Moses and Elijah and Enoch. ) All who have ever lived await their resurrection. Decisions regarding which resurrection are now being made because the first resurrection takes place while many are still living.
Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Like Israel prior to their deliverance from Egyptian slavery. They were witnesses to the plagues and the just judgement of God upon the unrepentant idolatrous Egyptians. So spiritual Israel will live through the final plaguies, protected, sheilded, but witnesses to the wrath of God being poured out upon those who had sought to destroy the church of God in the final hours.
Revelation 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Revelation 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
The wicked are destroyed first, then we which remain alive are translated and the dead raised.We then go home to the New Jerusalem with Jesus. Thus the earth is empty. The wicked are all dead, the righteous are in heaven. It is not until the end of the 1000 years that the city and the redeemed return to earth which is recreated.
Like Israel prior to their deliverance from Egyptian slavery. They were witnesses to the plagues and the just judgement of God upon the unrepentant idolatrous Egyptians. So spiritual Israel will live through the final plaguies, protected, sheilded, but witnesses to the wrath of God being poured out upon those who had sought to destroy the church of God in the final hours.
Revelation 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Revelation 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
The wicked are destroyed first, then we which remain alive are translated and the dead raised.We then go home to the New Jerusalem with Jesus. Thus the earth is empty. The wicked are all dead, the righteous are in heaven. It is not until the end of the 1000 years that the city and the redeemed return to earth which is recreated.
Thank you for your response!brakelite said:
Not going to dazzle you with footwork on this one thus just going to state for now that the interpretation of Matt.13:30 is in Matt.13:36, etc. having to do with the "Kingdom of Christ" this moment, viz., v.36, "sons of the Kingdom."
Rev.13:11-18 is the whole antichristian propaganda in the whole world (deceptive activity).
Again we are towards the very end of the 1,000 (Rev.20:2, etc.) where Satan should be personally loosed at any moment.
Old Jack
Yes Jack, I can see your perspective. I however will never believe that Satan is now bound. If he is bound, then his angels must be also. I know that is not the case as I have seen them on several occasions and sensed their presence on far too many occasions than I care to remember.
I believe he is bound, not by a literal chain but by a chain of circumsatnces when through the 1000 years when there is no life on the planet, he has no-one to tempt.I do agree with you though that the time is approaching when he will be appearing as a counterfeit Christ, an angelk of Light to deceive the world and lead them into the final apostasy. I do not believe however that that meansheisnot around now...he is but hiding in the background using agents to do his dirty work until his time comes. But hey, what is really really important now Jack is that today, right now, the only way for us to know we are safe is to cling to Jesus. Right? I think we must agree on that one my friend.
I believe he is bound, not by a literal chain but by a chain of circumsatnces when through the 1000 years when there is no life on the planet, he has no-one to tempt.I do agree with you though that the time is approaching when he will be appearing as a counterfeit Christ, an angelk of Light to deceive the world and lead them into the final apostasy. I do not believe however that that meansheisnot around now...he is but hiding in the background using agents to do his dirty work until his time comes. But hey, what is really really important now Jack is that today, right now, the only way for us to know we are safe is to cling to Jesus. Right? I think we must agree on that one my friend.
Thank you for your response again!brakelite said:Yes Jack, I can see your perspective. I however will never believe that Satan is now bound. If he is bound, then his angels must be also. I know that is not the case as I have seen them on several occasions and sensed their presence on far too many occasions than I care to remember.
I believe he is bound, not by a literal chain but by a chain of circumsatnces when through the 1000 years when there is no life on the planet, he has no-one to tempt.I do agree with you though that the time is approaching when he will be appearing as a counterfeit Christ, an angelk of Light to deceive the world and lead them into the final apostasy. I do not believe however that that meansheisnot around now...he is but hiding in the background using agents to do his dirty work until his time comes. But hey, what is really really important now Jack is that today, right now, the only way for us to know we are safe is to cling to Jesus. Right? I think we must agree on that one my friend.
You're too sharp, and can easily grasp exactly where I'm coming from regarding Rev.20:2 definitely not that it's valid, "and bound him" Simply the personal binding of Satan only means that he shall not prevent this heralding of the gospel to all the nations. Remember before the nations were without this heralding, all were under the personal deception of Satan, ie, one nation alone had the Word.
Why the big deal Jack on this! Although us Amills. agree to the former more or less, we have diverse interpretations with the rest of Rev., let alone the Premils. and etc. - exponentially diverse. I'm just experimenting to see if you can see exactly where I'm coming from so that you can try and shoot holes in it in our Lord's timing.
Old Jack digging a fox hole again.
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