Are you sure you can enter the gate? Matt 7:21-23 Jesus say to Christians "Depart From Me..."

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grandma dolittle

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May 23, 2012
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Missouri
It is rare that a noncatholic instructs a Catholic to study their church history more.....why are you trying to discredit the authority of the Catholic Church? As a noncatholic, you have the luxury of distancing yourself from all of your leaders....why are you trying to point out the obvious flaws of Catholic leaders? We both believe that our doctrines are not affected by the misdeeds of those individuals that hold office.

Sorry Aspen,
I am not trying to put down a Catholic. I just don't like to hear any organization, whether it be Cathlics, Methodists, or Baptist claim they have the sole authority on Christ and Christianity. I could give you a list of sins by prostentant leaders too. God gave us free will and I believe that our relationship with God is between that person, not the pope, Billy Graham or whoever. I am sorry if i offended you, that was not my intention. However, we do need to be careful in making claims as new christians read these posts also.

I am guilty going into what my sons call my "teaching mode". As a retired teacher, I guess I felt I needed to correct what I felt was wrong. Another fault of mine is I read and study a lot, not only Catholism, but Momonism, Buddism, Protestantism, Amish, etc.
 

layhoma

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May 23, 2012
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What is truly rare is to find a Christian who doesn't look at any man as the leader of their church!

I suppose you are right. My choice of word would be a shepherd. Slap me silly but the word " leader " sounds worldly and kind of having this connotation of dictatorship attached to it, holier than thou attitude. Somehow world politics must have seeped into my mind and pigeonholed bureaucrats with religion. :p Yes it would be nice to have someone to look up to, who offer guidance through fellowships but not commands to what and whatnot, someone who wishes to be addressed by their names rather than the title of Pastor this or Father that. Someone who would humble themselves and not afraid to admit their sins, oh lets say committed in their past week and willing to share them in the sermon in front of hundreds of church goers at the pulpit. Genuine humility is not hard to spot.

I can have total blind faith in God but never in a person in charge of any churches. Some don't practice what they preach. But then again nor would I (Occasionally) ! The point is people make errors regardless of their extensive theological background or their close spiritual walk with God. But that doesn't mean I don't respect them but knowing the only infallible person alive is Jesus and I would only accept Him as a true shepherd because He is the head of the church.

Blessings to All !!
 

neophyte

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Apr 25, 2012
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You are correct layhoma, Jesus is indeed the Chief Shepherd of His Church . Jesus understands and knows everything because He is God. Knowing His flock of sheep Jesus made sure that we always would have a shepherd [ albeit a substitute shepherd ] until the Real Shepherd returns to us.
" And I will set up one shepherd over them , and he shall feed them" [ Ezekiel 34: 23 ]

" " Jesus said to SimonPeter, Feed my lambs... feed my sheep .... feed my sheep " [ John 21: 15-17 ]
 

bytheway

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Jan 1, 2008
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Wolves in sheeps clothing as you stated xbt82. What we really need is sheep in wolves clothing, If you can hear it!
 

layhoma

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May 23, 2012
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LOL. You guys are really fun to read. Serious! full of riddles and humors. Who says Christian forums are boring?

So we all must agree we are near end time.

Matthew 24:24

[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God's chosen ones.[/background]

[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)] [/background][background=rgb(249, 253, 255)] :)[/background]
 

neophyte

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Apr 25, 2012
669
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LOL. You guys are really fun to read. Serious! full of riddles and humors. Who says Christian forums are boring?

So we all must agree we are near end time.

Matthew 24:24

[background=rgb(249,253,255)]For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God's chosen ones.[/background]

[background=rgb(249,253,255)] :)[/background]

Well, one thing we can't deny ,to the chagrin of many, is that Jesus called His 'chosen ones ' apostles and He personally only taught them 'the Fullness of the Christian Faith '. The false messiahs [ Luther, Knox , Joseph Smythe, Joseph Smith, Jim Jones, and Billie Bob etc. ] all came into the fold as the sheep in wolves clothing starting in the 16th century onward and still today inventing false churches that are becoming more watered-down and moving further and further away from the One True Gospel .
 

veteran

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Aug 6, 2010
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Matthew 7:14

[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it[/background][background=rgb(249, 253, 255)].[/background]

Matthew[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)] 7:21-23[/background]

Jesus said: "Not everyone who says to Me,'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day,'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them,'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.

Frankly, These two verses had me petrified for many years. The more I hear from Christians sharing their interpretations by trying to find scriptural references that may explain or crack the code, the more confuse it gets. Here are two basic arguments I've often hear or have read:

1. Free Salvationist- Salvation comes to anyone who has "faith," and faith is nothing more than believing the correct doctrines about Jesus. Such faith is simple to accomplish and easy to identify. That is why "salvation by faith" is so gracious. We are saved by faith alone.

2. Lorship Salvationist- Salvation comes to the one who has faith, but faith involves much more than mere doctrinal beliefs. True faith must be lived out, and it inevitably leads to good works.

So what do you think is the key to unlock the mystery of Matthew 7:21-23 ? Do we all Christians practice lawlessness ? I think so because I personally feel that anyone who breaks the 10 commandment is considered practicing lawlessness. No one is sinless, no saints, not Billy Graham and not even the Pope! If anyone of us could abide the 10 commandment there would be no need for Jesus to die for us. His blood cleanse us from sins in the past, present and future. He came because He knew we couldn't fulfill the law. Each day we need to continually pray for his forgiveness because we all fall short in the Glory of God.

Do we need to spell out our imperfections? I'll just name a simple two that I know I will never overcome:

1 John 3:15 " [background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]Anyone who hates another brother or sister is really a murderer at heart. And you know that murderers don't have eternal life within them."[/background]


[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]Matthew 5:27,28[/background][background=rgb(249, 253, 255)] " [/background][background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]You have heard that it was said, "Do not commit adultery. But I tell you anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already has committed adultery with her in his heart".[/background]

[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]Just recently I have come to a revelation from a good Brother in Christ and helped me solve this equation. The reason why Jesus would turn some of us away is because there will be those who never had a [/background][background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]RELATIONSHIP[/background][background=rgb(249, 253, 255)] with Him. It's just that simple ![/background]

....


Each one of those 'get away from Me' Scriptures depend on who He was saying it to and about (Matt.7; Matt.25; Luke 13).

The ones that especially point to believers are the ones claiming to have done works in His Name (Matt.7; Matt.25). The one given with the parable of the ten virgins is very important for those living in the last days. Jesus also covered the idea of the "unprofitable servant" in that same Matt.25 chapter to also define that about those in His Body.



In Luke 13, our Lord Jesus was teaching in one of the synagogues, and then through villages leading towards Jerusalem (thus in Judea). That example was mainly to the Jews in Judea.

Luke 13:25-29
25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, "Lord, Lord, open unto us"; and he shall answer and say unto you, "I know you not whence ye are":
26 Then shall ye begin to say, "We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets."
27 But he shall say, I tell you, "I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity."
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.
(KJV)

Notice how our Lord Jesus was contrasting their being cast out when Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets coming to sit down in the Kingdom of God, with their being cast out. Notice their ownly claim is how they had eaten and drank in Christ's presence, and how He taught in their streets. These are pointing to the unbelieving Jews.



In Matt.5-7, our Lord Jesus was talking to His disciples, in private. So all that is to us: Towards Believers:

Matt 7:15-23
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, "Lord, Lord", shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father Which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works?"
23 And then will I profess unto them, "I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity."
(KJV)

The Matt.7 example is especially about 'false prophets'. Our Lord's 'hireling' Message in John 10 goes with this example, as also Ezekiel 13. Some in the Church are not really there to guide and protect and feed His sheep. They treat preaching like a business. Recall the movie 'Leap Of Faith' where comedian Steve Martin played a fake tent preacher, traveling from town to town just to take people's money. As that tent preacher, he had to do enough to make himself credible to believers in order to get their money, putting on fake healings and such. Per the end plot of the movie God did a real healing through him which scared him, and he then sneeked off out of that town which ended the movie.

So naturally, those 'false prophets' have to have a certain amount of works to appear credible to believers so as to fool them out of their money. These are probably one of the biggest problems in the Church today, because The LORD did not call them, nor tell them to say, "God said...", etc. (see Ezek.13). Because of that they don't really understand His Word either, and must rely on doctrines others started, not having a clue as to whether those doctrines are Biblical or not, and also make up their own doctrines which throw even more confusion into the Churches.

Per 1950's ex-FBI agent Cleon Skousen in his 1958 work The Naked Communist, some of these work for world Communism per their long-range disinformation strategy against Christianity in the west, with the goal to turn Churches to follow "Social religion" instead of "Revealed religion" directly from The Bible. It's Churches on world Socialism today that are bringing in all sorts of doctrines and ideas from the world into the Church. Some western Christian leaders have been attending world religious summits with leaders of other religions in Moscow just for this purpose. The way to counter all that is to STAY in God's Word for yourself, asking His Guidance by The Holy Spirit, and always... check your teachers out in God's Word directly.

So truly, those I would say, The LORD never knew. (but some of them might turn, so only Christ is able to judge at the end).



In Matt.25, that is also to us as believers, contrasting the faithful with those who fall away and the wicked "goats".

Matt 25:10-13
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, "Lord, Lord, open to us."
12 But he answered and said, "Verily I say unto you, I know you not."
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
(KJV)

The ten virgins parable is especially for us who live in the last days for the tribulation period. Notice our Lord Jesus related it with a warning to 'watch' concerning His coming return. The five foolish virgins are believers, but they fall away in the end, but because of what?

Apostle Paul covered more about the particular warning our Lord Jesus gave us in His Olivet Discourse about the coming of a false messiah to this earth prior to His return. In 2 Thess.2 Paul warned about that coming false messiah coming to play God, with trying to get us all to worship him in place of our Lord Jesus. Paul called that event "strong delusion", and truly it will be strong, the strongest act of delusion upon this earth per history of this world. That event will cause many believers on Christ Jesus to fall away in bowing to that coming false messiah because they will think he is Christ having returned.

That's why the symbol of 'virgins' is used by our Lord Jesus in the Matt.25 parable. In 2 Cor.11, Paul said he wanted to present us as "a chaste virgin" to Christ (related to Isaiah 54). That's about us remaining faithful symbolic 'chaste virgins' to Christ watching and waiting for His return, not being fooled by the coming pseudo-Christ (Matt.24:24 per the Greek 'pseudochristos'). The five foolish virgins did not have a spare vessel of the Oil (Holy Spirit), and were told go 'buy' at the market. Problem is, that Holy Spirit cannot be bought. The reason the virgins sleep is to represent the deception of this event at the end, which is what the tribulation that's coming is about. Notice only those who awoke that had the spare vessel of Oil were able to go into the wedding of the bridgroom at the midnight hour (last hour symbolizing the time of Christ's coming).

These five foolish virgins DO... represent believers on Jesus Christ. They simply represent the 'lazy' believers that allow themselves to be fooled by the 'false prophet' types in the above. They attend Church giving their money and then depend on the preacher, or the Church system to save them, etc., thinking all they need do is heed what they're told, hardly ever crack open God's Word for theirselves, etc.
 

layhoma

New Member
May 23, 2012
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Hong Kong
To Veteran

That is a very comprehensive interpretation with a few great added bonus about the 10 virgins. Drawing the analogy of the 10 virgins with Matthew 7 is not only intuitive but have introduced many angles I'd never thought of before. I have delved in that parable many times either through bible study and debates from other Christians but could never really nail the intricacy in detail. This is a new revelation to me:

-The five foolish virgins did not have a spare vessel of the Oil (Holy Spirit)
-The reason the virgins sleep is to represent the deception of this event at the end,
-They attend Church giving their money and then depend on the preacher, or the Church system to save them, etc., thinking all they need do is heed what they're told, hardly ever crack open God's Word for theirselves, etc.

These are spot on ! You have surely sharpened My iron my bro/sis! Thanks for sharing and may the The Lord lift up the light of his continence upon you, and give you peace.

BTW- If anyone of you is interested in the subtlety of Satan's propaganda through mass media or such, you may want to check out this site. It has little religious overtone but plenty of eye popping articles that may make your jaw drop. http://vigilantcitizen.com/