tomwebster
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- Dec 11, 2006
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"Asleep" in Christ
- Thread starter Christina
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(Vherince;59052)
First of all, we are not going to the heaven of angels. That is very clear in the Bible.1 Thessalonians 4:14-15 "We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. [15] According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep."So, evidently, Christians are alseep. "Asleep in Christ" if you establish it that way. What about sinners and pagans and the like?2 Peter 2:4 "For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;"Satan and his angels dwell in hell AWAITING Judgment. 1 Corinthians 15:55 "Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?"The sting of death is its torment over our souls. If we fall asleep in Christ then death does not affect us. That means that sinners must then go to Hell before Judgment.Going into sleep TOTALLY destroys the purpose of entering Heaven. That is why after the Resurrection we will go to the Third Heaven, which is the ultimate presence of the LORD our God.2 Corinthians 12:2-4a "I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— was caught up to paradise." Note that in KJV paradise is capitalized.So the Third Heaven is Paradise because Paul is evidently repeating himself. What's Paradise? It's where a select few who miss sleep in Christ such as the criminal (Lk.23:43). Where is this Paradise?Revelation 2:7 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God." The Tree of Life is also on the New Earth in the New Jerusalem as we learn from the last part of Revelation. So, Paradise is synominous with Third Heaven and New Earth. You must assume that the new Earth that is talked about in Revelation is just the Third Heaven; you can verify it because Revelation declares that God is actually be with man; the Third Heaven is the ultimate presence of God.That's my $.02.
Vherince, Christina is right. Also we have not yet seen Satan claiming to be God according to...Isaiah 14:12 - How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!Isaiah 14:13 - For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:Isaiah 14:14 - I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.Isaiah 14:15 - Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.Isaiah 14:16 - They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;.......Ezekiel 28:2 - Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:.....Ezekiel 28:6 - Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;......II Thessalonians 2:3 - Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;II Thessalonians 2:4 - Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.......John 17:12 - While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
First of all, we are not going to the heaven of angels. That is very clear in the Bible.1 Thessalonians 4:14-15 "We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. [15] According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep."So, evidently, Christians are alseep. "Asleep in Christ" if you establish it that way. What about sinners and pagans and the like?2 Peter 2:4 "For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;"Satan and his angels dwell in hell AWAITING Judgment. 1 Corinthians 15:55 "Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?"The sting of death is its torment over our souls. If we fall asleep in Christ then death does not affect us. That means that sinners must then go to Hell before Judgment.Going into sleep TOTALLY destroys the purpose of entering Heaven. That is why after the Resurrection we will go to the Third Heaven, which is the ultimate presence of the LORD our God.2 Corinthians 12:2-4a "I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— was caught up to paradise." Note that in KJV paradise is capitalized.So the Third Heaven is Paradise because Paul is evidently repeating himself. What's Paradise? It's where a select few who miss sleep in Christ such as the criminal (Lk.23:43). Where is this Paradise?Revelation 2:7 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God." The Tree of Life is also on the New Earth in the New Jerusalem as we learn from the last part of Revelation. So, Paradise is synominous with Third Heaven and New Earth. You must assume that the new Earth that is talked about in Revelation is just the Third Heaven; you can verify it because Revelation declares that God is actually be with man; the Third Heaven is the ultimate presence of God.That's my $.02.
Vherince, Christina is right. Also we have not yet seen Satan claiming to be God according to...Isaiah 14:12 - How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!Isaiah 14:13 - For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:Isaiah 14:14 - I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.Isaiah 14:15 - Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.Isaiah 14:16 - They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;.......Ezekiel 28:2 - Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:.....Ezekiel 28:6 - Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;......II Thessalonians 2:3 - Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;II Thessalonians 2:4 - Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.......John 17:12 - While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
I'm using NIV. I would use KJV, but I forgot to.Jordon, I have never questioned the pride of Satan...
(Vherince;59059)
I'm using NIV. I would use KJV, but I forgot to.Jordon, I have never questioned the pride of Satan...
Of course not... I'm just pointing out that Satan is in heaven right now.
I'm using NIV. I would use KJV, but I forgot to.Jordon, I have never questioned the pride of Satan...
Of course not... I'm just pointing out that Satan is in heaven right now.
Yes you are correct but that is not until after the milllieum. In the O.T. he walked to and fro upon the earth. He has sense the time of Christ death on the cross he has been restrained in heaven by Michael and God, During the tribulation there is war in heaven he gets kicked to earth as we are told in Rev 12 after Christ returns he is bound for 1000 years then let loose for a short time....Then he is thrown in the lake of fire destroyed forever then there is a new Heaven and New earth. SatanOld Testament Time (The serpent in the Garden ) then he walked to and fro Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.Job 2:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.CurrentlyRev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, TribulationRev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with himMillieumRev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, End of this age Revelation 20:10 "And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
But where does it mention Michael having Satan locked up?Look at these verses:Isaiah 14:14 - I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.Isaiah 14:15 - Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.This part of Isaiah is talking about the first sin ever to be committed. Lucifer had been thinking of himself too highly and wanted to become like God as you see from verse 14. Verse 15 is direct punishment. In Revelation, we see a hopeful struggle. Satan knows that the Beast is winning the war by slaughtering the nations on earth so he attacks the Heavens to distract God. As we all know, God is both omniscient and omnipotent, so the whole mission is pointless. After this, he will have one last chance to destroy God's plans at Armageddon. In all the verses that you pointed out in hopes of verifying your claim, they all talk about Satan trying to mimic God. You have Satan making his way into the Temple of God (heresies), he makes nations fall (messing with human greed and nature). Satan is not limited to hell. In fact, his angels have taken control of God's prison (hell). That is why Satan can go out to roam the world, while his demons can possess.
(Vherince;59138)
But where does it mention Michael having Satan locked up?Look at these verses:Isaiah 14:14 - I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.Isaiah 14:15 - Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.This part of Isaiah is talking about the first sin ever to be committed. Lucifer had been thinking of himself too highly and wanted to become like God as you see from verse 14. Verse 15 is direct punishment. In Revelation, we see a hopeful struggle. Satan knows that the Beast is winning the war by slaughtering the nations on earth so he attacks the Heavens to distract God. As we all know, God is both omniscient and omnipotent, so the whole mission is pointless. After this, he will have one last chance to destroy God's plans at Armageddon. In all the verses that you pointed out in hopes of verifying your claim, they all talk about Satan trying to mimic God. You have Satan making his way into the Temple of God (heresies), he makes nations fall (messing with human greed and nature). Satan is not limited to hell. In fact, his angels have taken control of God's prison (hell). That is why Satan can go out to roam the world, while his demons can possess.
Again, Satan is not in Hell (or prison) He is in Heaven....Give me a breakThe word "Hell" in II Peter 2:4...II Peter 2:4 - For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;The Greek word for Hell is tataroo and it is only there ONE time. And it is not what you think...Greek #5020. tartaroo tar-tar-o'-o from Tartaros (the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment:--cast down to hell.Satan is in Heaven...he is being held in a holding place... not referring to Hell of what you were thinking.And how about my post that I posted in Post #22? We have not yet seen Satan going to the "temple of God" claiming to be God and He will do it.
But where does it mention Michael having Satan locked up?Look at these verses:Isaiah 14:14 - I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.Isaiah 14:15 - Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.This part of Isaiah is talking about the first sin ever to be committed. Lucifer had been thinking of himself too highly and wanted to become like God as you see from verse 14. Verse 15 is direct punishment. In Revelation, we see a hopeful struggle. Satan knows that the Beast is winning the war by slaughtering the nations on earth so he attacks the Heavens to distract God. As we all know, God is both omniscient and omnipotent, so the whole mission is pointless. After this, he will have one last chance to destroy God's plans at Armageddon. In all the verses that you pointed out in hopes of verifying your claim, they all talk about Satan trying to mimic God. You have Satan making his way into the Temple of God (heresies), he makes nations fall (messing with human greed and nature). Satan is not limited to hell. In fact, his angels have taken control of God's prison (hell). That is why Satan can go out to roam the world, while his demons can possess.
Again, Satan is not in Hell (or prison) He is in Heaven....Give me a breakThe word "Hell" in II Peter 2:4...II Peter 2:4 - For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;The Greek word for Hell is tataroo and it is only there ONE time. And it is not what you think...Greek #5020. tartaroo tar-tar-o'-o from Tartaros (the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment:--cast down to hell.Satan is in Heaven...he is being held in a holding place... not referring to Hell of what you were thinking.And how about my post that I posted in Post #22? We have not yet seen Satan going to the "temple of God" claiming to be God and He will do it.
(Vherince;59138)
But where does it mention Michael having Satan locked up?Look at these verses:Isaiah 14:14 - I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.Isaiah 14:15 - Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.This part of Isaiah is talking about the first sin ever to be committed. Lucifer had been thinking of himself too highly and wanted to become like God as you see from verse 14. Verse 15 is direct punishment. In Revelation, we see a hopeful struggle. Satan knows that the Beast is winning the war by slaughtering the nations on earth so he attacks the Heavens to distract God. As we all know, God is both omniscient and omnipotent, so the whole mission is pointless. After this, he will have one last chance to destroy God's plans at Armageddon. In all the verses that you pointed out in hopes of verifying your claim, they all talk about Satan trying to mimic God. You have Satan making his way into the Temple of God (heresies), he makes nations fall (messing with human greed and nature). Satan is not limited to hell. In fact, his angels have taken control of God's prison (hell). That is why Satan can go out to roam the world, while his demons can possess.
The verse's you quoted are Satan's ambitions not his location he wants to be God he was filled with pride he wants to be God it was why he rebelled.He was for all intensive purposes defeated with Christs death on the cross he physically can not roam the earth his evil spirts can roam the earth but Not Satan himself until he wars with Michael and gets kicked to earth this starts the actual tribulation period 5th?6th trump Satans one last chance to try. Michael has alway been the one to wrestle with Satan remember when they wrestled over the body of Moses Jud 1:9
But where does it mention Michael having Satan locked up?Look at these verses:Isaiah 14:14 - I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.Isaiah 14:15 - Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.This part of Isaiah is talking about the first sin ever to be committed. Lucifer had been thinking of himself too highly and wanted to become like God as you see from verse 14. Verse 15 is direct punishment. In Revelation, we see a hopeful struggle. Satan knows that the Beast is winning the war by slaughtering the nations on earth so he attacks the Heavens to distract God. As we all know, God is both omniscient and omnipotent, so the whole mission is pointless. After this, he will have one last chance to destroy God's plans at Armageddon. In all the verses that you pointed out in hopes of verifying your claim, they all talk about Satan trying to mimic God. You have Satan making his way into the Temple of God (heresies), he makes nations fall (messing with human greed and nature). Satan is not limited to hell. In fact, his angels have taken control of God's prison (hell). That is why Satan can go out to roam the world, while his demons can possess.
The verse's you quoted are Satan's ambitions not his location he wants to be God he was filled with pride he wants to be God it was why he rebelled.He was for all intensive purposes defeated with Christs death on the cross he physically can not roam the earth his evil spirts can roam the earth but Not Satan himself until he wars with Michael and gets kicked to earth this starts the actual tribulation period 5th?6th trump Satans one last chance to try. Michael has alway been the one to wrestle with Satan remember when they wrestled over the body of Moses Jud 1:9
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