hey guys, how's it hangin? so I was just wondering what your views are about astral projection and OBEs? cool thanks, i hope there isn't already a thread on this same topic...i never looked
Astral Projection and OBE!
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Heh. By my experiences it's real. Before I became a Christian, I messed with mental tricks. A few people may pass this off as fake, but this sort of thing is underground and is frowned upon. Do remember in Exodus when Moses was commanding Pharaoh to let the Jews go? God turned Moses' staff into a snake. And the Pharaoh commanded his magicians to recreate it. Well I believe that they did it with a process called Psyonics. Psyonics covers many things, including telepathy, empathy reading, mind reading, healing, and OBE/Astral Projection.One of the most basic things to do in Psionics would be channeling energy from wherever (sun, earth, your own body) and creating a ball of energy in your hands. Immediately you may tie this in with monks and Buddhism. Well, an experienced person in psi (short for psionics) can create psi balls with ease and without the use of hands. With enough energy, a psy ball can have a shape, even a radiating light (but that is extremely difficult). A person can send a psi ball to another person by just thinking of them.There are hundreds of forums regarding this, with many posts. I was on an IRC chat with two people who were practicing telepathy. They were doings basic shapes and colors, such as "red square" "purple triangle". And they got it right, with the exception of a wrong color but right shape, or vise versa.OBE is probably my favorite topic. Haven't done it, but it's fun to read other people's experiences. I remember one guy who flew around his house, then went down the street and watched a woman mow her lawn.Anyway, it is of the occult and you shouldn't mess with that stuff. And once we're reunited with Jesus, everything will be revealed onto us. So, yeah...Here is a forum I just dug up. I don't see why people would post on it if it was fake. I mean, people claim that they can do it, and there are even guides that help others learn. See it for yourself. http://www.psionguild.org/forums/index.phpI know of 2 other sites, but can not remember their urls.
To be serious, I don't really know if it's condemned in the Bible. If it's using your mental strength to the best of it's ability, then how is that wrong? I quit all of that Psi stuff because I was confused and unsure about it. Would someone put this issue to rest, I'm starting to get nervous. I need to drink some tea to calm my nerves.
I think we need to stay away from all this stuff I do not doubt much of it as I believe we run on electromagnic energy just like other things in nature and we may be able to tap into this energy and some of it probably is harmless The problem is that you never know when you cross over that line where does the science stop and occult began there is no big yellow line that says now you are getting into the occult. And Satan is suttle. He is the sly serpant. If God wanted us messing with this stuff he would have given us rules to follow and told us about it instead he warns us to stay away from socceries,magic, ect. That tells me he dosent want us missing with what we do not understand.
I've had a couple out of body experiences in my life. I would avoid with caution regardless the intent. If it's a grey area and you are a believer: keep out! There are much better things that could be used to glorify God with your time. When I was younger I was half tempted to dive head first into such matters. I poked my little noggin into a couple of books and websites and was looking on how to invoke this through practice. I well have no doubt that it would not have been the right thing to do whether it be part of the occult or not, or whether I was just curious, regardless. I feel guilty for even being curious - that should tell you something.It's like this: I've heard it said somewhere in the Old Testament that God does not take pleasure in the legs of men. In other words He created them and gave them to you to use, but no matter the marathon you run or the sports you play, He’s simply not going to be impressed. If you can apply this as an analogy to these experiences, positing them as your “out of body legs”, then you’ll have something to work with. No matter the level of achievement what's ultimately the purpose? Is it going to bring you any closer to God? So you can run around outside your body and up the street, maybe solve crimes, spy on people, etc. You’re still no savior. What of sin?If its something that God gives you to use then use it. If it’s something that people are now more abundantly being endowed with, though all gifts are from God, then sure just as we use our legs for this purpose or another, we may use “those” legs for those things which are still found acceptable to Christ. But to take time to consciously try to bring this out I think is wrong and of man and humanism. I think the Bible says that in the end times we will have something similar to our own divinity, or so we think, but deny its origin. Are we not created in His image? Furthermore faith is enough to vanquish OBE completely obsolete.Some of the apostles were carried through space and time to arrive instantly at locations where God wanted them. That sure beats OBE or Astral Projection if you ask me and you well have no doubt that it is of God. Do I think these things which are bordering near mysticism have anything to do with some innate untapped potential waiting to be awakened in man? I sure do, but a greater loss of potential would be to forfeiter your soul in pursuit of such frivolity. If God was ready to have us use this He would give it to us. And if he has given it to you then it is at your discretion to use, but you are still held accountable.I have often thought that due to the increased frequency of these experiences and similar ones that we are witnessing another step in God’s design for us – part of that design being what men today would like to break down into a process called evolution. It has been claimed by many including the Pope, not that that matters, that there has been an increase in activity concerning the occult. I am partial to believe this, but I also believe that an awakening for Christ is happening. I don’t know this one for sure, but doesn’t it say that in the end times God will pour out His spirit on all flesh? Could that be what we are seeing? Maybe it’s a test to see what we will choose. Cool super human powers (occult, etc.), or God’s promise of eternal life?
Wakka and Christs hammer I encourage you to read about a man called edgar Cayce.Hes called the christian Prophet, He would fall into the type of trance your talking about and tell with stunning detail what was wrong with a person mentally.But his christian believes Got so corrupt by his powers that he started to believe in the new age religonthese things aren't from Godyour brother in christRyan Fitz
(Letsgofishing;31313)
Wakka and Christs hammer I encourage you to read about a man called edgar Cayce.Hes called the christian Prophet, He would fall into the type of trance your talking about and tell with stunning detail what was wrong with a person mentally.But his christian believes Got so corrupt by his powers that he started to believe in the new age religonthese things aren't from Godyour brother in christRyan Fitz
Ryan, Yes, Ryan I believe that these experiences are not of God if they are outside His plan for you or are outside of faith. We are free to eat of that which is of faith, for anything not of faith is sin.Revelation, Chapter 4:1 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, and saying, “Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this.”2 Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne.Was this OBE? Well, thats completely irrelevant, because OBE is a term used by man. I don't remember hearing it in the Bible. I think Paul was in the Spirit and away from his body at the time. to my knowledge Paul was not yet resurrected from the dead. Hence his body was not yet glorified, to my knowledge, in Christ and most likely would not have withstood the presence of God in Heaven.Romans, Chapter 15:14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean....22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.It needs to be made clear that you do not eat of anything that would cause your brother to stumble. So agree, Ryan, I agree with you. Do not allow your curiosity to explore these anomalies or practice any craft concerning them, but at the same time do not limit God - not that you can, but in your mind.The man that you mention in your post fell away because he got obsessed with the gift and forget the Giver.1 Corinthians, Chapter 14:12 Even so, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel.James, Chapter 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Wakka and Christs hammer I encourage you to read about a man called edgar Cayce.Hes called the christian Prophet, He would fall into the type of trance your talking about and tell with stunning detail what was wrong with a person mentally.But his christian believes Got so corrupt by his powers that he started to believe in the new age religonthese things aren't from Godyour brother in christRyan Fitz
Ryan, Yes, Ryan I believe that these experiences are not of God if they are outside His plan for you or are outside of faith. We are free to eat of that which is of faith, for anything not of faith is sin.Revelation, Chapter 4:1 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, and saying, “Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this.”2 Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne.Was this OBE? Well, thats completely irrelevant, because OBE is a term used by man. I don't remember hearing it in the Bible. I think Paul was in the Spirit and away from his body at the time. to my knowledge Paul was not yet resurrected from the dead. Hence his body was not yet glorified, to my knowledge, in Christ and most likely would not have withstood the presence of God in Heaven.Romans, Chapter 15:14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean....22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.It needs to be made clear that you do not eat of anything that would cause your brother to stumble. So agree, Ryan, I agree with you. Do not allow your curiosity to explore these anomalies or practice any craft concerning them, but at the same time do not limit God - not that you can, but in your mind.The man that you mention in your post fell away because he got obsessed with the gift and forget the Giver.1 Corinthians, Chapter 14:12 Even so, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel.James, Chapter 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
tim_from_pa
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I have a problem with OBE. Not whether it's right or wrong per se, but the "mechanism" behind it. How can the soul be parted from the body? The same goes for the spirit.I compare a person to a computer (roughly). Hardware is body, software is soul, and power to run it is spirit. The dividing line between all three is not always clear cut, as some software can be physically represented in the hardware, or again, it may be no more than "one's and zero's" stored by the power in RAM where there's no physical counterpart.Now, If I turn on my computer and my software boots up on Kriss' machine on the other end of the country without the use of a connection, then maybe I'll believe OBE is possible.
But where do you get the power to perform OBEis it from God. Is it satanIs it from yourselfis it from other peoplewe really don't know and unless you know for sure that Something like that comes from God I would stay away from it.Because if its from satan your in troubleyour brother in christRyan Fitz
(tim_from_pa;31540)
I have a problem with OBE. Not whether it's right or wrong per se, but the "mechanism" behind it. How can the soul be parted from the body? The same goes for the spirit.
It should not be our concern to get caught up with the mechanisms or science behind this or any other phenomenon. It’s not that it isn’t allowed to know this, but our focus should be Christ. If He wants to take your spirit on a ride for awhile and leave your body in limbo for a sec then what is that to Him. To think it incapable just because you can’t understand it is no impedance to Him who created the parts. Also what of death? Does your spirit linger at your decomposing remains?(tim_from_pa;31540)
I compare a person to a computer (roughly). Hardware is body, software is soul, and power to run it is spirit. The dividing line between all three is not always clear cut, as some software can be physically represented in the hardware, or again, it may be no more than "one's and zero's" stored by the power in RAM where there's no physical counterpart.
I think it’s safe to say that computers do not suffice for the comparison of God’s creation molded in His image. I do understand where you are going. But based on that analogy try to explain walking on water, raising the dead, walking through walls, turning water to wine, breaking bread for thousands, or any of the other wonderful miracles that Christ and some of his apostles performed by the power of God.(tim_from_pa;31540)
Now, If I turn on my computer and my software boots up on Kriss' machine on the other end of the country without the use of a connection, then maybe I'll believe OBE is possible.
It’s really sad that it would take that to get you to believe in something that thousands if not millions, over time, have experienced including myself, a believer the same as you in Christ. And who is to say that there isn’t a connection that you can’t see? In your terms think of it as spiritual Wi-Fi.As well if no flesh can survive the glory of God, then what was John witnessing on that throne in heaven, was it not the One and Only?(Letsgofishing;31556)
But where do you get the power to perform OBEis it from God. Is it satanIs it from yourselfis it from other peoplewe really don't know and unless you know for sure that Something like that comes from God I would stay away from it.Because if its from satan your in troubleyour brother in christRyan Fitz
To be clear if I have not already made this distinction; I have never invoked this. I use to live in a trailer; I woke up outside of it one time out of my body and free to roam. I did not invoke this. I don’t have and have never had the option of staying away, it’s just happened to me. Sometimes I’ve felt it was from God, other times I knew it was Satan and yet others that it was just happening as naturally an occurring phenomenon as gravity. I was a firm believer at the time this happened. I’ve also woken up many times hovering above the ceiling however unable to move, and had to slowly wait for my spirit, soul, whatever technically it could be called, maybe my point of perception to fall back into my body. I praise God for the proof that I am not trapped to my mortal man and that the spirit far succeeds the flesh in its glory. Not that I needed the proof. The point is if something is from God he will let you know, I think He knows how His creation works. If that be OBE why fight it. Am I an unbeliever because I’ve had these experiences? I doubt it, but God will be the judge of that.
I have a problem with OBE. Not whether it's right or wrong per se, but the "mechanism" behind it. How can the soul be parted from the body? The same goes for the spirit.
It should not be our concern to get caught up with the mechanisms or science behind this or any other phenomenon. It’s not that it isn’t allowed to know this, but our focus should be Christ. If He wants to take your spirit on a ride for awhile and leave your body in limbo for a sec then what is that to Him. To think it incapable just because you can’t understand it is no impedance to Him who created the parts. Also what of death? Does your spirit linger at your decomposing remains?(tim_from_pa;31540)
I compare a person to a computer (roughly). Hardware is body, software is soul, and power to run it is spirit. The dividing line between all three is not always clear cut, as some software can be physically represented in the hardware, or again, it may be no more than "one's and zero's" stored by the power in RAM where there's no physical counterpart.
I think it’s safe to say that computers do not suffice for the comparison of God’s creation molded in His image. I do understand where you are going. But based on that analogy try to explain walking on water, raising the dead, walking through walls, turning water to wine, breaking bread for thousands, or any of the other wonderful miracles that Christ and some of his apostles performed by the power of God.(tim_from_pa;31540)
Now, If I turn on my computer and my software boots up on Kriss' machine on the other end of the country without the use of a connection, then maybe I'll believe OBE is possible.
It’s really sad that it would take that to get you to believe in something that thousands if not millions, over time, have experienced including myself, a believer the same as you in Christ. And who is to say that there isn’t a connection that you can’t see? In your terms think of it as spiritual Wi-Fi.As well if no flesh can survive the glory of God, then what was John witnessing on that throne in heaven, was it not the One and Only?(Letsgofishing;31556)
But where do you get the power to perform OBEis it from God. Is it satanIs it from yourselfis it from other peoplewe really don't know and unless you know for sure that Something like that comes from God I would stay away from it.Because if its from satan your in troubleyour brother in christRyan Fitz
To be clear if I have not already made this distinction; I have never invoked this. I use to live in a trailer; I woke up outside of it one time out of my body and free to roam. I did not invoke this. I don’t have and have never had the option of staying away, it’s just happened to me. Sometimes I’ve felt it was from God, other times I knew it was Satan and yet others that it was just happening as naturally an occurring phenomenon as gravity. I was a firm believer at the time this happened. I’ve also woken up many times hovering above the ceiling however unable to move, and had to slowly wait for my spirit, soul, whatever technically it could be called, maybe my point of perception to fall back into my body. I praise God for the proof that I am not trapped to my mortal man and that the spirit far succeeds the flesh in its glory. Not that I needed the proof. The point is if something is from God he will let you know, I think He knows how His creation works. If that be OBE why fight it. Am I an unbeliever because I’ve had these experiences? I doubt it, but God will be the judge of that.
I signed onto this board when I found this thread, to get opinions. This past Friday night, I had an out-of-body experience. Like BearingChristaHammer, I was not trying for this experience.Once upon a time, I did try to seek it out. When I was 16, my girlfriend actually managed to talk me into my very first one, which was my introduction to the whole topic. (No, I wasn't on drugs, then or anytime else.) When I was 18, I started trying to induce them from sleep. When I finally succeeded, it scared the daylights (nightlights?) out of me and I resolved hold off for the present, but to try again someday. After a while, weird psychic phenomena around me stopped and life became more or less normal.When I was 27, in spite of the best efforts of Christian parochial school, I became a Christian in truth instead of in name-only. Somewhere along the way, I decided that messing around with this stuff fell into the range of "strictly forbidden", and I made a conscious decision that I would not be trying it again, ever. A few years have passed since.And then it happened again the other night, spontaneously and without trying to -- in fact, while actively trying to stop it. It's impossible to be mistaken for a dream. There's a startling and somewhat violent sensation of being vibrated out of my body, and suddenly I'm seeing the room when I know my eyes are shut and the lights are out.I tried to stop it, started praying as it happened, but just like that, I was out. I decided to make the most of it, and floated around for a couple of minutes before I blacked out and went back to sleep. Nothing much interesting happened.I'll admit to an insatiable curiosity. If there were no religious compunction, I would be exploring this freely. I rarely pray for myself, other than for things of a purely spiritual nature, but last night I prayed, to the effect of, "Hey, I'm not seeking this out -- but if it's Your will that it happens then I'll make the most of it." I slept like a log all night, without any nocturnal projections.That's just the facts, ma'am --most of them, anyway. I have no conclusions to make. Does anyone have any idea how I might be able to interpret all this? I'm absolutely stumped.
PilgrimLostInTraffic, what good news to hear that you are now seeking after Christ and not just bearing a name. I will pray for you.Please if you could be a little more specific on what you are looking for an interpretation of? I have put out quite a bit on what I feel concerning these phenomenon as I am familiar with them myself. I would love to be the greatest help to you that I can, but I am not sure where to start.Feel free to ask anything that you want, and I will provide the best answer that I can. God as my witness I do not want to lead you astray. I would rather you look for answers here in this forum then somewhere out there where your best interest may not be considered.With Respect,BearingChristaHammer
PilgrimLostInTraffic, have you read "the reality of the supernatural world" by todd bentley. it's really good and he talks a lot about these types of experiences, you might want to check it out.
I'm actually already pretty well-read on the subject, from my interest when I was younger.What confuses me is that if I'm not seeking it out, and I believe it to be wrong to seek it out, and it happens anyway, what does that mean? It wasn't any kind of religious experience. It was actually kind of pointless.What is sin? Is it act? intent? both? Can it be sin if it is act without intent?If it was not by my will that it happened, then logically it follows that it was God's will. But for what purpose?If I drop a book on my foot, (ow!), it's gravity -- a clear and fairly predictable manifestation of God's will. If there's some higher order purpose, or lack thereof, for the book to make connection with my foot in such a manner, I can't say as it bothers me much. There's no moral hazard.If you wake up from sleep to discover that you've sleepwalked out, grabbed a gun, and robbed a bank, but have no conscious memory of having done so, no intent whatsoever of doing so -- is it a crime? Is it a moral black mark? I guess the question I'm doing such a poor job of asking has little to do with OBE's as such, except that they're an accidental artifact of the problem.On the other hand, if having an OBE is on the same moral order of magnitude is just like having that book fall on my foot, then is it really a sin and lumpable in the same category with witchcraft etc?
PilgrimLostInTraffic,Ah I see now. Thank you for clarifying. Having an out of body experience isn't a sin, but that doesn't mean that all OBE experiences are good or from God. These are something that can occur because of the way that God has made us. It's in our hardware so to speak. This is something that can just happen. It is something that Satan can use to scare you. It is something that God can use to show you a vision, etc. It can be something that can be completely neutral.Just because a phenomenon is not completely understood by the science of the times, doesn't mean it is bad. This has often been a misconception of the churches throughout the ages. Our science falls way short of explaining such phenomenon as this, but it is one merely having to do with the design of God's creation no less than the governing laws of gravity. Obviously different constructs and dynamics are at play here, hence some individuals prove more apt to the phenomenon than others.I'm an Indigo child. What does that mean? Well I don't really know. I know that man has his pondering on the matter but I seek God. That said I am different than a lot of people I meet. Indigos have an aura that is dark blue or indigo hue. One of the many characteristics of them are that they are more apt to this type of activity. That is definitely true with me. I am more apt to spiritual manifestations of any type, good or bad, I just see more. If you were born after 1980, which it sounds like it might be close for you, then there is a chance you too are an one.This doesn't make me bad or a child of Satan. I am a child of God. I have Christ as my Saviour, and so do you. The idea is not to get caught up in His creation. We are to live life with a purpose and to serve our God. These experiences are not sin, and it's not a sin to have one. You know as well as I that we don't invoke these. Now if we took the time to manifest these and got all wrapped up in them, that would be following after our own hearts' desire and away from God's plan for us. Our time should be pressing into Him and not some experience.Quantum physics actually can explain a lot of these phenomenon, however the whole of today's scientific community is slow to follow behind though it is getting there. I think it's only human to have a curiosity involving such things, but just that you have to keep it in check and not get carried away. Don't judge yourself for having them. I think you should be grateful to have had the experiences. They are a real eye opener, pun intended.With Respect,BCH
(Super Kal;32328)
does lucid dreaming count in this category?
There is absolutely nothing wrong with lucid dreaming. It is a perfectly normal occurrence. It is definitely not a sin. I use to get them occasionally. It's the same as any dream. You can have bad ones, or you can have good ones, or you can have ones that are completely neutral. There is nothing wrong or sinful about lucid dreaming. So if that's what you mean by if fitting in the same category then yes. However as to the mechanics behind them we are dealing with two different models here, but neither of them is sinful. Now you can be sinful in a lucid dream, but the process of having one is not sinful, this would just be your sin coming out in the dream, lucid or otherwise.
does lucid dreaming count in this category?
There is absolutely nothing wrong with lucid dreaming. It is a perfectly normal occurrence. It is definitely not a sin. I use to get them occasionally. It's the same as any dream. You can have bad ones, or you can have good ones, or you can have ones that are completely neutral. There is nothing wrong or sinful about lucid dreaming. So if that's what you mean by if fitting in the same category then yes. However as to the mechanics behind them we are dealing with two different models here, but neither of them is sinful. Now you can be sinful in a lucid dream, but the process of having one is not sinful, this would just be your sin coming out in the dream, lucid or otherwise.
(Super Kal;32328)
does lucid dreaming count in this category?
To anyone who is curious on the term, "lucid dreaming" simply means having a dream in which you are aware you are dreaming, and have full control over the dream.(BearingChristaHammer)
If you were born after 1980
'fraid not.(BearingChristaHammer)
Quantum physics actually can explain a lot of these phenomenon
I honestly wish that it could explain it. I studied quantum physics a little bit, way back in college, and it made a certain amount of mathematical sense. But unless the spirit is composed of subatomic particles such as can be modeled in bra-ket notation, I don't think I'll find any answers there.I'm not really looking for sin in the whole thing, so much as I am looking for the opportunity to find meaning in it. As to this episode, however, I'm afraid I'm not finding any meaning whatsoever. It's been a week, and there's been no indication of an imminent repeat. I'm going to have to file this whole experience under "?" and get on with my life.ps. I find it interesting that you call modern science slow to make progress on these subjects, but then say that we should keep our curiosities in check. I have no real comment to make on this, except to say that I find it curious.
does lucid dreaming count in this category?
To anyone who is curious on the term, "lucid dreaming" simply means having a dream in which you are aware you are dreaming, and have full control over the dream.(BearingChristaHammer)
If you were born after 1980
'fraid not.(BearingChristaHammer)
Quantum physics actually can explain a lot of these phenomenon
I honestly wish that it could explain it. I studied quantum physics a little bit, way back in college, and it made a certain amount of mathematical sense. But unless the spirit is composed of subatomic particles such as can be modeled in bra-ket notation, I don't think I'll find any answers there.I'm not really looking for sin in the whole thing, so much as I am looking for the opportunity to find meaning in it. As to this episode, however, I'm afraid I'm not finding any meaning whatsoever. It's been a week, and there's been no indication of an imminent repeat. I'm going to have to file this whole experience under "?" and get on with my life.ps. I find it interesting that you call modern science slow to make progress on these subjects, but then say that we should keep our curiosities in check. I have no real comment to make on this, except to say that I find it curious.
(PilgrimLostInTraffic;32481)
ps. I find it interesting that you call modern science slow to make progress on these subjects, but then say that we should keep our curiosities in check. I have no real comment to make on this, except to say that I find it curious.
Well I don't exactly understand what you find curious or contradicting of these statements in context to everything else I've said? I am saying just what I have said. That scientific movements are slow in developing around the truth. Old movements and ideas take root and become foundations whether true or not and they become strongholds in peoples' minds. For example, how many people thought that the earth was flat or that the earth was the center of the universe? The Church even persecuted and killed people whose views weren't mainstream with theirs’ and the rest of the community at the time. It was called heresy. This was when church and science were much more closely related, almost intertwined.Science now claims to be its own entity outside of God. The two according to this world no longer hold hands. I however just see it as the study of His creation. Einstein believed in God and he said that he liked to follow God's thoughts after Him. I don't claim Einstein to be a follower; I say this only to show that science is God's, as is all creation. What we need to not get wrapped up in is the unraveling of every phantasmal or even concrete constructs of His reality in understanding it. We are not to put our hope in what we know, but Who we know. We are to worship the Creator, not the created or the experiences of. That is all I am saying.Now I will say that I have come to my understanding of quantum physics outside the classroom. So maybe that’s why it works for me. I have been given an understanding from God concerning His creation and it works for me. I don’t obsess over it, but rather I am extremely grateful with what He shares. It’s all to His glory. Man can look for the answers all he wants but God has them sitting right in His hand. Science may slowly catch up, but in carnality you cannot fully grasp the creation that we see and experience everyday.As for meaning behind your experiences there doesn’t have to be any. I’ve had several that have meant nothing. Me personally I see this as many things, but one of which is that this is a step in human evolution and that more and more people are going to start experiencing similar phenomenon from generation to generation. Me personally I believe in evolution, but that it is merely God’s way of forming us from the dust. If we are not quite molded to fulfill His purpose though I do believe He rested from creating on the 7 day, but that doesn’t mean He didn’t set us on a course. Who’s to say we are there yet?But again I don’t say this from anything I’ve learned from school, or at least school is only in conjunction to it. If you want clarity keep pushing into God, He will give it to. I don’t mean to sound brass, but I don’t really see the prudence, even if these could be explained to yours or my full understanding. It’s okay to be curious, but just that some curiosity can lead you away. You’ll know in your heart if that’s the case.Humph I feel as if I’m still missing what you are after, rather I know that I can't offer it. Is there something telling you that there has to be a meaning behind your experiences, obviously not from the content of the experiences themselves but from you personally? I can’t image this as an incredibly difficult thing to accept for what it is, even if you can’t explain it, but it sounds like you've already come to that conclusion. As for the curiosity however I completely understand.P.S. I am not speaking of a mathematical understanding of physics, but quantum physics as dealing with philosophy and science aside from heavy computation. From a layman's understanding. Picking up a book in that field might really help. Super string theory, action at a distance, omnipresent subconscious, 10 dimensions, something dealing with those from a philosophical viewpoint. I think that the philosophy will rocket ahead of the mathematics in their own right.
ps. I find it interesting that you call modern science slow to make progress on these subjects, but then say that we should keep our curiosities in check. I have no real comment to make on this, except to say that I find it curious.
Well I don't exactly understand what you find curious or contradicting of these statements in context to everything else I've said? I am saying just what I have said. That scientific movements are slow in developing around the truth. Old movements and ideas take root and become foundations whether true or not and they become strongholds in peoples' minds. For example, how many people thought that the earth was flat or that the earth was the center of the universe? The Church even persecuted and killed people whose views weren't mainstream with theirs’ and the rest of the community at the time. It was called heresy. This was when church and science were much more closely related, almost intertwined.Science now claims to be its own entity outside of God. The two according to this world no longer hold hands. I however just see it as the study of His creation. Einstein believed in God and he said that he liked to follow God's thoughts after Him. I don't claim Einstein to be a follower; I say this only to show that science is God's, as is all creation. What we need to not get wrapped up in is the unraveling of every phantasmal or even concrete constructs of His reality in understanding it. We are not to put our hope in what we know, but Who we know. We are to worship the Creator, not the created or the experiences of. That is all I am saying.Now I will say that I have come to my understanding of quantum physics outside the classroom. So maybe that’s why it works for me. I have been given an understanding from God concerning His creation and it works for me. I don’t obsess over it, but rather I am extremely grateful with what He shares. It’s all to His glory. Man can look for the answers all he wants but God has them sitting right in His hand. Science may slowly catch up, but in carnality you cannot fully grasp the creation that we see and experience everyday.As for meaning behind your experiences there doesn’t have to be any. I’ve had several that have meant nothing. Me personally I see this as many things, but one of which is that this is a step in human evolution and that more and more people are going to start experiencing similar phenomenon from generation to generation. Me personally I believe in evolution, but that it is merely God’s way of forming us from the dust. If we are not quite molded to fulfill His purpose though I do believe He rested from creating on the 7 day, but that doesn’t mean He didn’t set us on a course. Who’s to say we are there yet?But again I don’t say this from anything I’ve learned from school, or at least school is only in conjunction to it. If you want clarity keep pushing into God, He will give it to. I don’t mean to sound brass, but I don’t really see the prudence, even if these could be explained to yours or my full understanding. It’s okay to be curious, but just that some curiosity can lead you away. You’ll know in your heart if that’s the case.Humph I feel as if I’m still missing what you are after, rather I know that I can't offer it. Is there something telling you that there has to be a meaning behind your experiences, obviously not from the content of the experiences themselves but from you personally? I can’t image this as an incredibly difficult thing to accept for what it is, even if you can’t explain it, but it sounds like you've already come to that conclusion. As for the curiosity however I completely understand.P.S. I am not speaking of a mathematical understanding of physics, but quantum physics as dealing with philosophy and science aside from heavy computation. From a layman's understanding. Picking up a book in that field might really help. Super string theory, action at a distance, omnipresent subconscious, 10 dimensions, something dealing with those from a philosophical viewpoint. I think that the philosophy will rocket ahead of the mathematics in their own right.
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