Atheist objections to evidence for God's existence

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Nancy

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Does god desire all to be saved?

This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony borne at the proper time. And for this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. 1 Tim 2:3-7.

I say yes, He does wish this.
 
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Dave L

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Does god desire all to be saved?

This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony borne at the proper time. And for this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. 1 Tim 2:3-7.
All men = Jews and gentiles alike. Where before it was Jews only.
 

OzSpen

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If his evidence is look at the trees, then no that is insufficient.

Well then he did a pretty crappy job of it. I bet if I asked most people here if there could be any evidence that could change their mind on the existence of god most would say no. I am not saying that for the existence of god. If there is sufficient evidence to convince me then I would believe and go from there.

In your second paragraph you argue from silence, which is a fallacy. You have not provided evidence from 'most people' on this forum about their understanding of the existence of God.

As for your first paragraph:

1 The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
2 Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they reveal knowledge (Ps 19:1-2 NIRV).

You've missed the glory of the 3 heavens, the majesty of the God who created the galaxies. Take a look at the intricacies of the human body and how it functions.

GOD screams at us in creation, but you have closed your ears Vince.

Oz
 
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Reggie Belafonte

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I've noticed there are a few atheists who visit CyB forum.

I'd like to pose a question to them and to those who have had conversations with atheists:

What are the reasons why atheists reject the evidence for God's existence?

Oz
I think that they are dead and I have come across people who claim to be Christians as well, who are in the same boat.

All one has to do is open ones eyes and look around you, we are living in just such an Awesome place, it's just amazing, what could be better ? the only problem with the world is Sin and the problem is the infestation of Sin all around us.

One can look into anything God made and be blown away about it and if you are not, such a one must be possessed.
If one was to support abortion on demand you are a possessed person and if such a murder does not really upset you, such a one has be possessed by Satan.

The mind must be possessed by a demon in such people.

When I talk to such people I just see an ignorant blighted fool who is just stomping about in a huff about the world, it's not good enough for them ! it's because they are blighted by a curse, so they can't perceive because fact is they don't truly want to see anyway or what they are looking for is nothing to do with the Holy Spirit. as it's all about them they will gladly use others to their own ends and be proud of such.

One could be pointing to the Moon and what they are doing is looking at your finger, so they miss the heavenly glory in what you are revealing to them, so to speak.
Carnal man can not pick up, it's like a radio that can not receive reception.
Or casting pearls before swine as Bible informs us.

I have a mate who is like such, he is just a Swine who is not worth talking to as in such and I believe that it's because, he is just so rapped up in worldly things, like hell bent in making money and pandering to his own ego, that only such things are what he can see as worthy.
Satan rules him like a slave that he is too such temptations, thus he can not see past the elusions of Satan's works and many a so called Christian is just the same that I know, they all have their gods or an Idol that they worship.

An Atheist is just a Nigger a poor hopeless slave to his own ends, black in heart and void of the Light.
Sure he makes a fuss about his own predicament but he refuses to admit that it's him that's the problem, oh no ! he is a good person ! as he will stand on a pedestal and proclaim that too the world 24/7, don't you worry about that and piddling on about his ways ! but not Gods way as such is way beyond the poor bastard.
 

Vince

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In your second paragraph you argue from silence, which is a fallacy. You have not provided evidence from 'most people' on this forum about their understanding of the existence of God.
That is not a fallacy from silence. Also, when I said "I bet" this indicates that I was not presenting this as evidence but as conjecture from my own experience from being and talking to believers. William Lane Craig is a person that has been quoted here often and he says no evidence will convince him that god does not exist.

As for your first paragraph:

1 The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
2 Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they reveal knowledge (Ps 19:1-2 NIRV).

You've missed the glory of the 3 heavens, the majesty of the God who created the galaxies. Take a look at the intricacies of the human body and how it functions.

GOD screams at us in creation, but you have closed your ears Vince.
I see the wonders of the universe. I agree that it is amazing but there is no reason to believe it was created by a god. Because our universe is complex does not mean it had to be created by a god. That is a leap of logic saying I know of no other explanation so goddidit.
 

Vince

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Nancy,

God does want all to come to repentance, but stubborn, sinful wills get in the way and resist God's drawing and promptings.

Oz
It is not a stubborn will that is why many are not convinced of gods existence it is simply a lack of evidence. Nature is not convincing evidence nor is a book that has some true history in it but makes unsubstantiated supernatural claims.
 

Vince

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I think that they are dead and I have come across people who claim to be Christians as well, who are in the same boat.

All one has to do is open ones eyes and look around you, we are living in just such an Awesome place, it's just amazing, what could be better ? the only problem with the world is Sin and the problem is the infestation of Sin all around us.
I agree that our world is amazing and complex. I also agree that people are bent toward selfishness that causes a lot of problems in this world.

One can look into anything God made and be blown away about it and if you are not, such a one must be possessed.
I use teh results of science in my job everyday, I love to learn about how the universe works but complexity does not indicate a god had to create it.

If one was to support abortion on demand you are a possessed person and if such a murder does not really upset you, such a one has be possessed by Satan.
I am profile in all situations but Satan has nothing to do with pro choice people. They just believe different things based on the evidence they are provided. It is our job to convince them that they have evaluated the evidence incorrectly. telling them they are demon possessed is unproductive toward your goal, if your goal is less abortions.

When I talk to such people I just see an ignorant blighted fool who is just stomping about in a huff about the world, it's not good enough for them ! it's because they are blighted by a curse, so they can't perceive because fact is they don't truly want to see anyway or what they are looking for is nothing to do with the Holy Spirit. as it's all about them they will gladly use others to their own ends and be proud of such.
This describes many Christians.

One could be pointing to the Moon and what they are doing is looking at your finger, so they miss the heavenly glory in what you are revealing to them, so to speak.
Carnal man can not pick up, it's like a radio that can not receive reception.
Or casting pearls before swine as Bible informs us.
Your bible also informs us that gays should be killed, slavery was supported by god and genocide is ok if god ordains it. Where is the evidence that the bible is true?

An Atheist is just a Nigger a poor hopeless slave to his own ends, black in heart and void of the Light.
Sure he makes a fuss about his own predicament but he refuses to admit that it's him that's the problem, oh no ! he is a good person ! as he will stand on a pedestal and proclaim that too the world 24/7, don't you worry about that and piddling on about his ways ! but not Gods way as such is way beyond the poor bastard.
I would never say I am a good person. I would say that I have done good and bad things. I look at the bad things I have done and try to learn form them to better myself and do as much good in the world as I can. Your god only wants to condemn everyone and say the good people have done is not really good unless they believe in me. The Atheist Community of Austin feeds and clothes more homeless people in that city than any other nonprofit organization. Your god would say their good works are filthy rags. I bet the people they are helping would not.
 
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bbyrd009

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That is not a fallacy from silence. Also, when I said "I bet" this indicates that I was not presenting this as evidence but as conjecture from my own experience from being and talking to believers. William Lane Craig is a person that has been quoted here often and he says no evidence will convince him that god does not exist.

I see the wonders of the universe. I agree that it is amazing but there is no reason to believe it was created by a god. Because our universe is complex does not mean it had to be created by a god. That is a leap of logic saying I know of no other explanation so goddidit.
You do realize that the chief complaint against Jews was that they had no effigy in their holy place, it was an empty room, yes? So the point there is that "I know of no other explanation" is likely a pretty good definition for God, certainly better than the one you or many other believers have now I guess. Or even mine

Also, you have not addressed that the universe only exhibits entropy to us; everything that we know of in existence goes from a more ordered state to a less ordered state. Order infers agency, as I'm sure you are aware.

Now I don't expect you to address this of course, or you would be done here, but you might think about it ok
I use teh results of science in my job everyday, I love to learn about how the universe works but complexity does not indicate a god had to create it.
Ha, you got Science Jokes now Vince, lol
Iow you employ your agency to create order every day, but choose to ignore the order that surrounds us that must have some agency, what, bc you dislike the idea of worshipping the "Christian" believer's God, Vince?
You are just and only verifying that you never read the Bible for yourself, ok bro

ok ty
 
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bbyrd009

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It is not a stubborn will that is why many are not convinced of gods existence it is simply a lack of evidence. Nature is not convincing evidence nor is a book that has some true history in it but makes unsubstantiated supernatural claims.
that you do not know how to interpret yet, wadr. Yes, there was no magic yesterday, and there will be no magic tomorrow either, but note how well the Book serves to reveal those who believe otherwise?
Did you believe that the Bible meant literally walking on water? too?
why?

these are rhetorical Qs, ok, I will not be replying
 

Vince

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You do realize that the chief complaint against Jews was that they had no effigy in their holy place, it was an empty room, yes? So the point there is that "I know of no other explanation" is likely a pretty good definition for God, certainly better than the one you or many other believers have now I guess. Or even mine
You are assuming that the accounts of Jesus death and resurrection are true. This has not been demonstrated.

Also, you have not addressed that the universe only exhibits entropy to us; everything that we know of in existence goes from a more ordered state to a less ordered state. Order infers agency, as I'm sure you are aware.
Then you don't understand the second law of thermodynamics. When people use order vs disorder to describe the concept of entropy they invariable get it wrong. Entropy is a measure of the amount of thermodynamic energy that is unavailable to do work in a closed system. A better way to describe the "disorder" in a system is multiplicity. This has to so with the available states a system can be in. Like rolling a pair of dice. It is more likely that a 7 will be rolled over a 12 because there are 6 ways to get the number 7 and only one way to get a number 12.

There can be an "ordered" or "disordered" system that has the same exact thermodynamic properties including entropy but the number of states it can be in can be limited in one over another due to other constraints. Such as a glass of ice chips or a glass of water. Both can be in a state where the entropy is the same for both. Many would characterize the ice chips as having less order than the homogeneous glass of water. They would be wrong in the thermodynamic sense because of multiplicity. So saying that entropy is the measure of order in system is not telling the entire story.

Now I don't expect you to address this of course, or you would be done here, but you might think about it ok
Why? At least thermodynamics is testable, repeatable and understandable with evidence unlike the god hypothesis.


Iow you employ your agency to create order every day, but choose to ignore the order that surrounds us that must have some agency, what, bc you dislike the idea of worshipping the "Christian" believer's God, Vince?
Nope read above. Its science. You are also showing your arrogance by telling me why I have a lack of belief when I have told you differently.

You are just and only verifying that you never read the Bible for yourself, ok bro
An assertion you cannot prove. Christians like to do this a lot.
 

Vince

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that you do not know how to interpret yet, wadr. Yes, there was no magic yesterday, and there will be no magic tomorrow either, but note how well the Book serves to reveal those who believe otherwise?
Did you believe that the Bible meant literally walking on water? too?
why?

these are rhetorical Qs, ok, I will not be replying
Why? This is a tactic employed here a lot. If you are not willing to engage in conversation the done post at all.
 

bbyrd009

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You are assuming that the accounts of Jesus death and resurrection are true. This has not been demonstrated.
Wadr I'm not seeing how bringing Jesus into the convo at this point has anything to do with my post, Vince. I am not assuming anything of the kind, and that strikes me at the moment at least as a completely diff subject?
You do realize that the chief complaint against Jews was that they had no effigy in their holy place, it was an empty room, yes? So the point there is that "I know of no other explanation" is likely a pretty good definition for God, certainly better than the one you or many other believers have now I guess. Or even mine
 
D

Dave L

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@Vince; My understanding is that unless God provides a miraculous change of heart, a person cannot believe in him in true faith. So trying to believe with the mind is limited since it isn't a spiritual receptor. You are honest in that you say you cannot believe. But you misjudge others who believe because of experiencing the New Birth. Which makes them spiritually receptive.
 
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bbyrd009

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So saying that entropy is the measure of order in system is not telling the entire story.
Yes Vince, I am aware that that is a simplified illustration, not meant to tell an entire story ok
any metaphor or simile can be broken if you look hard enough, sure
 

bbyrd009

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Why? At least thermodynamics is testable, repeatable and understandable with evidence
:rolleyes: Yes Vince, but you still cannot make hydrogen from energy, or living things from all of the elements that could easily be provided to you, and you are just worming to avoid the obv point now, so I have to go ok, have a nice day
 
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bbyrd009

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Nope read above. Its science. You are also showing your arrogance by telling me why I have a lack of belief when I have told you differently.
oh, you are a firm Believer, Vince, I pay no attention to your declarations about what you have chosen to believe or not believe, and I guess we already went over this? You have beliefs--that can easily be shown to actually be Absolute Truths, no less--and I have beliefs, and beliefs just are not relevant, as you say, see I am agreeing with you now. Beliefs do not save anyone, there is no judgement for beliefs, etc, and this is just another distraction wadr

You are the one that brought up "beliefs" again here, right
all I did was ask you a question there, see
what, bc you dislike the idea of worshipping the "Christian" believer's God, Vince?
An assertion you cannot prove. Christians like to do this a lot.
well, I'm not trying to prove it, you are proving it when you verify Scriptural concepts all by yourself, I guess
 

Vince

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Wadr I'm not seeing how bringing Jesus into the convo at this point has anything to do with my post, Vince. I am not assuming anything of the kind, and that strikes me at the moment at least as a completely diff subject?
I guess I don't understand your point then.
 

Vince

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@Vince; My understanding is that unless God provides a miraculous change of heart, a person cannot believe in him in true faith. So trying to believe with the mind is limited since it isn't a spiritual receptor. You are honest in that you say you cannot believe. But you misjudge others who believe because of experiencing the New Birth. Which makes them spiritually receptive.
Our beliefs are not a choice, we are convinced or we are not convinced. I guess I will have to wait until god changes my heart, i the mean time I will live my life based on evidence and reason.
 
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Vince

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:rolleyes: Yes Vince, but you still cannot make hydrogen from energy, or living things from all of the elements that could easily be provided to you, and you are just worming to avoid the obv point now, so I have to go ok, have a nice day
It is not obvious that just because we don't know things to assume a god then did it. That is illogical reasoning. Miracles are indistinguishable from sufficiently advanced technology we cannot understand. How do we know a miracle over some process we don't yet understand.