Attack on the Family

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bukka

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I remember the day of that funeral. It was very sad. I remember Kennedy as a confident, young President, at a time when I was not a confident young man. He was a man strong enough to have charity for others and to take criticism. That was something that I learned was worthy of emulation. The 1960s was a time of strong men and women, people having the courage to love others and themselves.

We must have courage to love others and ourselves in Christ. As Christ has loved us and forgiven our sins, so we can love ourselves and others, and forgive those that have wronged us.
 

amadeus

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Hi H2S...that was JFK. Don't remember your mom crying while watching the funeral on TV? I was very young but remember that day clearly. Mostly the flagged draped coffin and his young son. Was sad.
I was in the US Army attending Signal School at Ft Monmouth NJ when he was assassinated. They dismissed all classes and the entire post was gathered together upon the death of our Commander and Chief. The next year under LBJ I went to S Viet Nam.
 

bukka

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Here is a dog whistle for you all.

and here is my take on it. Christians like to claim that liberals attack the family by promoting homosexual marriage and divorce and women in the workplace.....

Yet, so many conservatives have rooted themselves in the theology of toxic individualism! Me first over community! No vaccines! No masks! No public schools! No integration of folks with disabilities or minorities of any kind! No government support of any kind unless it benefits me!

MAGA really means Me First!

If we had this mentality during the Second World War, we would have lost it. We certainly would have lost the Cold War; and after holding our family and community together through all this it now looks like Khrushchev's prediction is finally taking hold:

“We will take America without firing a shot. We do not have to invade the U.S. We will destroy you from within....”

And surprisingly, the destruction of our community is not coming from the left - instead, it is exploiting American's tendency towards embracing conspiracy theories over reason; our greed and desire for luxury over charity; our love of self sufficiency and 'rugged individualism over community.........

Community is fine as long as I get Mine.

It seems that it is more than that, aspen, in that many MAGA folks accept Ayn Rand's doctrine of selfishness, which they use to seemingly justify themselves in turning away from community. They do not admit that there is a moral responsibility for being a member in that community. They deny any form of altruism. For many MAGA folks, there is no community because they accept Thomas Hobbes notion that humankind is in a state of perpetual war, and that the state exists to make that war manageable so that the powerful few can dominate the powerless many, that the rich can exploit the poor, etc. Community does not exist, because in that imagined world, no brotherhood or sisterhood exists. Everyone hates everyone else and that is the true order of things.

In Christ, this is to be rejected, and we are commanded to love others. And why not? If I've been forgiven in Christ, surely I can forgive others? If I know of others in need in the community, surely I can assist them in their time of need as Christ has assisted me. Would I be in disobedience of loving others as Christ has loved me, if I failed to express that love that Christ has commanded me? For many of these MAGA folks, they must decide whom they are to follow. For me, I shall follow Christ.
 
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Nancy

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I was in the US Army attending Signal School at Ft Monmouth NJ when he was assassinated. They dismissed all classes and the entire post was gathered together upon the death of our Commander and Chief. The next year under LBJ I went to S Viet Nam.

Oh, I would have loved to have served under JFK!!! Born too late, lol.
And I for one, am very blessed that you came out of that horrible war.
 
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farouk

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Amen, Nancy! JFK was reluctant to get involved in Vietnam. It's too bad that that tragedy happened.
Seems like released recordings show that he and MacNamara and Bundy discussed getting rid of President Diem in a coup.....(it happened, whoever may have been deemed to have given the order.....seems like Ambassador Lodge in Saigon had a lot to do with it; and Colby was around just beforehand, too...)
 

Nancy

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I remember the day of that funeral. It was very sad. I remember Kennedy as a confident, young President, at a time when I was not a confident young man. He was a man strong enough to have charity for others and to take criticism. That was something that I learned was worthy of emulation. The 1960s was a time of strong men and women, people having the courage to love others and themselves.

We must have courage to love others and ourselves in Christ. As Christ has loved us and forgiven our sins, so we can love ourselves and others, and forgive those that have wronged us.

Hello and welcome to the forum @bukka
I had to be about 5 when he was assassinated so, that day...all I knew was that my mom was crying which made me sad, lol. But, as I aged and learned more about the man, my respect grew for him. He might not have been a perfect man but, I do believe he spoke his heart and the truth...and it was TRUTH that got him killed, IMO.
God Bless!
 
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farouk

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Hello and welcome to the forum @bukka
I had to be about 5 when he was assassinated so, that day...all I knew was that my mom was crying which made me sad, lol. But, as I aged and learned more about the man, my respect grew for him. He might not have been a perfect man but, I do believe he spoke his heart and the truth...and it was TRUTH that got him killed, IMO.
God Bless!
@Nancy I take it you agree generally with the House Committee on Assassinations' conclusion in 1977/78 that JFK's death was probably as a result of a conspiracy...
 

bukka

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Some say, farouk, that American society began to unravel at that point. In the hearts of many, the lusts of the flesh, lust of the eyes and the pride of life waxed strong in many. And many began to abandon charity and many nominal Christians began to abandon charity in Christ in favor of worldly power and goods.

But Christ is ever calling us back again. We shall do well if we call many back to repentance and Christ's love. In doing this we shall heal our community in America and in many places on the globe. Love is always easier than hatred. Christ has shown us the way.
 

farouk

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Some say, farouk, that American society began to unravel at that point. In the hearts of many, the lusts of the flesh, lust of the eyes and the pride of life waxed strong in many. And many began to abandon charity and many nominal Christians began to abandon charity in Christ in favor of worldly power and goods.

But Christ is ever calling us back again. We shall do well if we call many back to repentance and Christ's love. In doing this we shall heal our community in America and in many places on the globe. Love is always easier than hatred. Christ has shown us the way.
@bukka I'm not American, but you make some good points, indeed.
 
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bukka

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Hello and welcome to the forum @bukka
I had to be about 5 when he was assassinated so, that day...all I knew was that my mom was crying which made me sad, lol. But, as I aged and learned more about the man, my respect grew for him. He might not have been a perfect man but, I do believe he spoke his heart and the truth...and it was TRUTH that got him killed, IMO.
God Bless!

I would agree, Nancy. To speak the truth does endanger one, but this is always the case of those seeking to follow the Lord. It's too bad that there was the sin in his life. He ended his life well with the sum of his deeds outweighing the evil that existed in his personal life. May we all end our lives loved for the good that we have done and the sins gradually being forgotten. With this happening, we can know that we had had God's favor.
 
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farouk

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I would agree, Nancy. To speak the truth does endanger one, but this is always the case of those seeking to follow the Lord. It's too bad that there was the sin in his life. He ended his life well with the sum of his deeds outweighing the evil that existed in his personal life. May we all end our lives loved for the good that we have done and the sins gradually being forgotten. With this happening, we can know that we had had God's favor.
PS: JFK was rather friendly with Cord Meyer's wife, and she died in mysterious circumstances in '64........
 

bukka

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This speculation of JFK is interesting, Nancy and farouk. Perhaps the time has passed for non-historians to consider it until the matter has been determined by scholars who've submitted their conclusions to peer review. JFK was a sinner, and did suffer that frailty of the flesh that we are all vulnerable.

War changes people and the scars of war for JFK ran deep. Pleasures of the flesh did provide escape for many people of that generation that had experienced war in World War II. This does not justify him, of course. The scars of war does explain some of his behavior.
 
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bukka

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Here is a dog whistle for you all.

and here is my take on it. Christians like to claim that liberals attack the family by promoting homosexual marriage and divorce and women in the workplace.....

Yet, so many conservatives have rooted themselves in the theology of toxic individualism! Me first over community! No vaccines! No masks! No public schools! No integration of folks with disabilities or minorities of any kind! No government support of any kind unless it benefits me!

MAGA really means Me First!

If we had this mentality during the Second World War, we would have lost it. We certainly would have lost the Cold War; and after holding our family and community together through all this it now looks like Khrushchev's prediction is finally taking hold:

“We will take America without firing a shot. We do not have to invade the U.S. We will destroy you from within....”

And surprisingly, the destruction of our community is not coming from the left - instead, it is exploiting American's tendency towards embracing conspiracy theories over reason; our greed and desire for luxury over charity; our love of self sufficiency and 'rugged individualism over community.........

Community is fine as long as I get Mine.

It seems that it is more than that, aspen, in that many MAGA folks accept Ayn Rand's doctrine of selfishness, which they use to seemingly justify themselves in turning away from community. They do not admit that there is a moral responsibility for being a member in that community. They deny any form of altruism. For many MAGA folks, there is no community because they accept Thomas Hobbes notion that humankind is in a state of perpetual war, and that the state exists to make that war manageable so that the powerful few can dominate the powerless many, that the rich can exploit the poor, etc. Community does not exist, because in that imagined world, no brotherhood or sisterhood exists. Everyone hates everyone else and that is the true order of things.

In Christ, this is to be rejected, and we are commanded to love others. And why not? If I've been forgiven in Christ, surely I can forgive others? If I know of others in need in the community, surely I can assist them in their time of need as Christ has assisted me. Would I be in disobedience of loving others as Christ has loved me, if I failed to express that love that Christ has commanded me? For many of these MAGA folks, they must decide whom they are to follow. For me, I shall follow Christ.

We cannot serve both our own selfishness and Christ. We must decide this, and give our heart to Christ. There is no other path open to us.
 
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bukka

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Amen, farouk! Though we may be abased in our walk with Christ, we shall be exalted and shall walk on high with him. This is far better than any mean selfishness advocated by people such as Ayn Rand.
 
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FollowHim

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Here is a dog whistle for you all.

and here is my take on it. Christians like to claim that liberals attack the family by promoting homosexual marriage and divorce and women in the workplace.....

Yet, so many conservatives have rooted themselves in the theology of toxic individualism! Me first over community! No vaccines! No masks! No public schools! No integration of folks with disabilities or minorities of any kind! No government support of any kind unless it benefits me!

MAGA really means Me First!

If we had this mentality during the Second World War, we would have lost it. We certainly would have lost the Cold War; and after holding our family and community together through all this it now looks like Khrushchev's prediction is finally taking hold:

“We will take America without firing a shot. We do not have to invade the U.S. We will destroy you from within....”

And surprisingly, the destruction of our community is not coming from the left - instead, it is exploiting American's tendency towards embracing conspiracy theories over reason; our greed and desire for luxury over charity; our love of self sufficiency and 'rugged individualism over community.........

Community is fine as long as I get Mine.
Excessive wealth , greed and self indulgence will do this for you. Who are the heroes today?

Porn soaked celebrities, who abuse others are addicted to drugs and have broken relationships, using sex as a pickup to meaning. Our films are very violent, sexual, without boundaries, and our enemies are unknown, because we are as bad as them.

Dream world is marvel comics, heroic super men, or anti heroes with no care. The minorities are the poor victims, who need space to break judges who force conformity. Evil is knowing boundaries, as if destroying each other is our right. Love has become hedonism and is corrupting everything. Drugs are the right of the young, sex their passage to adulthood, orgies a mature response to desire.....As people are hurt and withdraw care disappears....
 

BreadOfLife

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Here is a dog whistle for you all.

and here is my take on it. Christians like to claim that liberals attack the family by promoting homosexual marriage and divorce and women in the workplace.....

Yet, so many conservatives have rooted themselves in the theology of toxic individualism! Me first over community! No vaccines! No masks! No public schools! No integration of folks with disabilities or minorities of any kind! No government support of any kind unless it benefits me!

MAGA really means Me First!

If we had this mentality during the Second World War, we would have lost it. We certainly would have lost the Cold War; and after holding our family and community together through all this it now looks like Khrushchev's prediction is finally taking hold:

“We will take America without firing a shot. We do not have to invade the U.S. We will destroy you from within....”

And surprisingly, the destruction of our community is not coming from the left - instead, it is exploiting American's tendency towards embracing conspiracy theories over reason; our greed and desire for luxury over charity; our love of self sufficiency and 'rugged individualism over community.........

Community is fine as long as I get Mine.
Thank you for illustrating a woefully-ignorant Liberal view of things . . .

I know it makes for some great, long-winded diatribes in the New York Times and CNN – but Conservatives do NOT sit in the “lap of luxury” while the rest of America starves.
As a matter of fact virtually EVERY existing research poll shows that American Conservatives donate MUCH more of their money, talent and time to charity than their Liberal and Leftist counterparts. “MAGA” means precisely that: Make AMERICA Great Again – not just Conservatives.

PRIOR to this Covid shutdown nonsense –
- African American employment was at the HIGHEST number in U.S. history.
- Hispanic American employment was at the HIGHEST number in U.S. history.
- Asian American employment was at the HIGHEST number in U.S. history.
- Female employment was at the HIGHEST number in U.S. history.
- Teenage and Young Adult employment was at the HIGHEST number in U.S. history.
- More Poor leople were pulled OFF of Food Stamps and Welfare than at ANY other time in U.S. history.


Ummmmm, WHY was this NOT the case after EIGHT YEARS of Obama?? Why were MORE poor people placed on Welfare than at ANY other time since the Great Depression?

Because for ALL of the “feel good” manure shoveled by the Left – the fact remains that as long as Satan is their god – they will never know what TRUE charity is . . .
 
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Naomi25

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Here is a dog whistle for you all.

and here is my take on it. Christians like to claim that liberals attack the family by promoting homosexual marriage and divorce and women in the workplace.....

Yet, so many conservatives have rooted themselves in the theology of toxic individualism! Me first over community! No vaccines! No masks! No public schools! No integration of folks with disabilities or minorities of any kind! No government support of any kind unless it benefits me!

MAGA really means Me First!

If we had this mentality during the Second World War, we would have lost it. We certainly would have lost the Cold War; and after holding our family and community together through all this it now looks like Khrushchev's prediction is finally taking hold:

“We will take America without firing a shot. We do not have to invade the U.S. We will destroy you from within....”

And surprisingly, the destruction of our community is not coming from the left - instead, it is exploiting American's tendency towards embracing conspiracy theories over reason; our greed and desire for luxury over charity; our love of self sufficiency and 'rugged individualism over community.........

Community is fine as long as I get Mine.
Aspen. I know you mean very well. But I’m sorry, this is incredibly misplaced.
Are there some “right wing” people that are extreme like this? Certainly. But by far the most conservative folk...the ones you are lumping all together, are those who have built these nations up to believe in community, law and order, respect for others, rights and freedoms for all. And the way they did all this was by working side by side. The proof against your claim of individualism is both the existence of our Country’s and also the Church families we gather in.
You point out that conservatives are against masks and vaccinations (which is far from true, by the way), and yet you seem to miss the inconsistencies of your own political ilk that says it fine to ignore those things in the midst of a pandemic as long as they want to protest. Do you believe a righteous cause fends off bugs that could very well kill those they are protesting for?

And, you will find that most “conservatives” are quite pro-immigration. We just prefer that they come through legal channels, rather than illegal ones. And as long as any liberal continues to lock their door and car, they can hardly claim they are against legal entries.

You go on at length, and I will not address every point, I don’t think I need to. I can just say that you have made many sweeping statements that lump all conservatives together and that those statements are untrue and inconsistent and I would ask that you take a bit more care when aiming your criticisms.