@Aunty Jane - A thread to discuss, with you specifically, a few things, if you will indulge a little time with me. Thank you.

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Johann

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*snorts*, What an "ass" (Ex. 23:4-5). I went to bed, it was late in American Samoa, like 3 AM. You can keep your "shalom", I have a better one - Jesus Christ (Luk. 2:14; John 14:27; Col. 1:20; 2 Thes. 3:16).

Psa_120:7 I am for peace: but when I speak, they are for war.

דכִּ֣י תִפְגַּ֞ע שׁ֧וֹר אֹֽיִבְךָ֛ א֥וֹ חֲמֹר֖וֹ תֹּעֶ֑ה הָשֵׁ֥ב תְּשִׁיבֶ֖נּוּ לֽוֹ:

If you come upon your enemy's bull or his stray donkey, you shall surely return it to him.

כִּֽי־תִרְאֶ֞ה חֲמ֣וֹר שׂנַֽאֲךָ֗ רֹבֵץ֙ תַּ֣חַת מַשָּׂא֔וֹ וְחָֽדַלְתָּ֖ מֵֽעֲזֹ֣ב ל֑וֹ עָזֹ֥ב תַּֽעֲזֹ֖ב עִמּֽוֹ:

If you see your enemy's donkey lying under its burden would you refrain from helping him? You shall surely help along with him.

I was trying to look up the *snorts* in the Tanack, couldn't find it.

Shalom
J.
 

Johann

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There are several phases of the atonement, according to the Sanctuary (Psalms 77:13). See also differing atonements in Lev. 4, vs Lev 16, 23.

View attachment 28814

What was "finished" at Calvary was the Courtyard "daily" service, not the entire plan of Redemption, which is several phases of Ministry. Jesus wrought out the perfect character, so that we might be justified, sanctified and glorified in the same. His life is the Cornerstone that was laid of the True Temple, which was just Begun in the laying of it at Calvary. So the Cornerstone was laid, put into place, and "finished", but that was just the beginning of the greater work he had yet to do in Heaven for us.

At Calvary, Jesus was the "Lamb of God" (Sacrifice), and "LORD's Goat". Jesus was given a "work" to do on earth to finish (John 4:34), and yet there is another "work" that Jesus had to do in Heaven (Romans 9:28), in the Holy (at first), and then Most Holy (now), as High Priest, which He did not become until Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4,18-19,33; Psalms 133:1-3; Hebrews 7:26; Revelation 5:6, etc).

The first phase, Jesus "bought" us (Leviticus 25:51; 1 Peter 1:18-19)

The latter phase, Jesus "brought" us to perfection of character, being both "author" and "finisher" of our faith (Leviticus 25:55; 1 Peter 3:18), which is why we see Jesus ministering in those two Heavenly places. Another "It is done (finished)" is coming (Revelation 16:17; 21:6).

Those who say Jesus finished everything at Calvary have no idea what they are talking about. Pentecost wasn't even until 50 days after Jesus own resurrection.
Nope, I go by with what the Scripture says, "Tetelestai"

J.
 

Johann

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She is right. :)


See Chapters 11, and Appendix 2 (I do keep giving these to you):

A short listing.

[XX] Appendix 2 – The Short Historical List of those who taught Jesus is Michael the archangel and/or angel of the LORD

[*This list is by far from complete, though representative, and may be added to by any who will continue to diligently search the historical records in various languages and places. By no means, is any source listed herein, rare though they be, that actually denies the Eternal Deity and Godhood of Jesus in any way, agreed to, nor herein promoted as correct or to be advocated, but is rather than scripturally heretical and to be roundly shown to be in error in the love of Jesus.]

Ellen G. White (AD November 26, 1827 – AD July 16, 1915) – Jesus is “Michael”

Melito of Sardis (wrote AD 165 – AD 175, died c. AD 180 – Jesus is “among the angels, archangel”

Roman Catholic Encyclopedia: Jesus is the Angel of the Great Counsel, the Angel of the LORD, etc

Augustine of Hippo (AD 13 November 354 – AD 28 August 430) Jesus is the “Angel of the Testament”, etc

Irenaeus (AD early 2nd century – c. AD 202) Jesus is the one that came down and spoke to the Patriarchs under the designation “Angel”.

Titus Flavius Clemens (Greek: Κλήμης ὁ Ἀλεξανδρεύς; c. 150 – c. 215), known as Clement of Alexandria – Jesus is the “Angel of the Great Counsel”.

Justin Martyr, also known as Saint Justin (c. AD 100 – AD 165) – Jesus is called “Angel”, etc

Eusebius (AD 260/265 – AD 339/340); also called Eusebius of Caesarea and Eusebius Pamphili, - Jesus is called the “Angel of the mighty counsel”.

Quintus Septimius Florens Tertullianus, anglicised as Tertullian (c. AD 160 – c. AD 225 AD) – Jesus is the ‘Angel’ that spake to Moses from the midst of the bush.

Roman Catholic New American Bible with Footnotes [along with Douay Rheims], 1986: - Jesus is the “Lord’s Angel”, and “Angel of the LORD”, and etc.

Charles Buck (AD 1771 – AD 11 Aug 1815) Jesus is called “Angel” and “Archangel”.

John Butterworth, minister (born AD 1727- died AD 1803) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Alexander Cruden (AD May 31, 1699 – AD November 1, 1770) – Jesus is called “Angel”.

Thomas Taylor (AD 15 May 1758 – AD 1 November 1835) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Patrick Fairbairn (AD 28 January 1805 – AD 6 August 1874) – Jesus is “Michael”.

William Baxter Godbey (AD June 3, 1833 - AD September 12, 1920) cites Dr. Clarke that Jesus is “Michael”.

Matthew Pool[e] – (AD 1624 – AD 1679) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Sir William Smith (AD 20 May 1813 – AD 7 October 1893) – Jesus is “Michael” and cites others Luther, Hengstenberg, etc.

Thomas Coke (AD 9 September 1747 – AD 2 May 1814) – Jesus is “Michael”.

John Guyse (AD 1680 - AD 1761) – Jesus is “Michael”, and called “Angel”, etc

Elhanan Winchester (AD 1751 in Brookline, Massachusetts – AD April 18, 1797) – Jesus is “Michael”.

George Sale (AD 1697, Canterbury, Kent, England – AD 1736, London, England) ; George Psalmanazar (AD 1679? - AD 1763),; Archibald Bower (AD 17 January 1686 – AD 3 September 1766) ; George D. Shelvocke (baptised AD 1 April 1675 - AD 30 November 1742) ; John Campbell (AD 1708 - AD 1775); John Swinton (AD 1703 - AD 1777) – Jesus is “Michael”.

The Church of England Magazine. Under the superintendence of the clergymen of the United Church of England and Ireland. Vol. IV. No. 85; January 6, 1838. By James Burns. – Jesus is “Michael”.

Robert Hawker (AD 1753 – AD 1827) – Jesus is “Michael” and “Archangel”.

Samuel Horsley (AD 15 September 1733 – AD 4 October 1806) – Jesus is “Michael”.

The London Encyclopedia, or Universal Dictionary … 1839. – Jesus is “Michael”.

The Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible; Volume 4; M-P, Revised, Full-Color Edition; - cites that many Protestants, Hengstenberg, etc that Jesus is “Michael”.

Zondervan NIV Study Bible (Fully Revised): Wide Margin Loose-Leaf Edition; copyright 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society. – Jesus is the “angel of the Lord”, etc.

Hermann Witsius (Herman Wits or in Latin Hermannus Witsius) (AD 12 February 1636 – AD 22 October 1708) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Reinerus Vogelsangius (AD 1610 - AD 1679) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Johannes Cloppenburg (AD 1592 - AD 1652) - Jesus is Michael the “Angel of the Lord”.

Ralph Griffiths (AD c.1720 – AD September 28, 1803) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Campegius Vitringa Sr., or Kempe Vitringa[1] (born at Leeuwarden, May 16, 1659; died at Franeker, March 31, 1722) – Jesus is “Michael” the “Archangel”.

Martin Luther (AD 10 November 1483 – AD 18 February 1546) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Philipp Melanchthon (AD 16 February 1497 – AD 19 April 1560) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Johann Wigand (ca. AD 1523 - AD 21 October 1587) – Jesus is “Michael”.

David Chytraeus or Chyträus (26 February 1530, Ingelfingen – 25 June 1600, Rostock) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Giovanni Diodati or Deodati (AD 6 June 1576 – AD 3 October 1649) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Andrew Willet (AD 1562 – AD 4 December 1621) - Jesus is “Michael”.

William Miller (AD February 15, 1782 – AD December 20, 1849) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Carl L. Beckwith, - Jesus is “Michael”.

Robert W. Bertram (AD 27 March 1921 - AD 13 March 2003) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Dr. Frances N. Lee (AD 1934 - AD Friday 23rd December, 2011) - - Jesus is “Michael”.

David Harold Chilton (AD 1951 – AD 1997) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Milton Spenser Terry (AD 1840 - AD 1914) - Jesus is “Michael”.

George Whitefield - December 27 [O.S. December 16] 1714 – September 30, 1770) speaks by symbol, Jesus is our “Michael”.

James Petigru Boyce (AD 1827 – AD 1888) citing John Pye-Smith, Jesus is “probably” “Michael”.

The Rev Dr John Pye-Smith FRS, FGS (AD 25 May 1774 - AD 5 February 1851) - Jesus is “probably” “Michael”.

Christmas Evans (AD 25 December 1766 – AD 19 July 1838) – Jesus is “Michael”.

The Christian Gleaner and Domestic Magazine
The Christian Gleaner and Domestic Magazine for 1825, Volume II; London; published by B. J. Holdsworth, 18, St. Paul's Churchyard. – Jesus is “Michael”.

Carl Ferdinand Wilhelm Walther (AD October 25, 1811 – AD May 7, 1887) - Jesus is “Michael”.

John Gill (AD 23 November 1697 – AD 14 October 1771) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Charles Spurgeon (AD 9 June 1834 – AD 31 January 1892) Jesus is the “True Michael”.

Matthew Henry (AD 18 October 1662 – AD 22 June 1714) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Thomas Adams (AD 1583 – AD 1653) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Heinrich [Henry] Bullinger (AD 18 July 1504 – AD 17 September 1575) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Isaac Watts (AD 17 July 1674 – AD 25 November 1748) - Jesus is “Michael”.

William Kinkade (AD 22nd Sept. 1783 - AD 20th Sept. 1832) [became Arian later; Heresy] - Jesus is “Michael”.

Jonathan Edwards (AD October 5, 1703 – AD March 22, 1758) - Jesus is “Michael”.

1560/1599 Geneva Study Bible- Jesus is “Michael”.

John [Jean] Calvin (born Jehan Cauvin: AD 10 July 1509 – AD 27 May 1564) - Jesus is “Michael” and does not disagree with others who see the same.

Francois Du Jon aka Franciscus Junius (born François du Jon, AD 1 May 1545 – AD 13 October 1602) - Jesus is “Michael”.

John Wesley (AD 28 June [O.S. 17 June] 1703 – AD 2 March 1791) - Jesus is “Michael”.

John Brown of Haddington (AD 1722 – AD 19 June 1787) - Jesus is “Michael”.

James Wood (AD 1751 – AD 1840) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Ernst Wilhelm Theodor Herrmann Hengstenberg (AD October 20, 1802, Fröndenberg – AD May 28, 1869, Berlin- Jesus is “Michael”.

Wikipedia, The Online Encyclopedia – Michael (Archangel); subsection - “Protestant Views” – cites John A. Lees, and Hengstenberg, Jesus is “Michael”.

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, comment on section “Michael” by John A. Lees. - Jesus is “Michael”.

John Bunyan (AD 28 November 1628 – AD 31 August 1688) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Henry Ainsworth (AD 1571 – AD 1622) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Thomas Watson (c. AD 1620 – AD 1686) - Jesus is “Michael”.

James Glasgow D.D. (AD 27 May 1805 – AD 1890 ) - Jesus is “Michael”.

James Hastings (AD 1852 – AD 1922) and George Cunninghame Monteath Douglas (AD 1826 – AD 1904- Jesus is “Michael”.

Thomas Hobbes Scott (17 April 1783 – 1 January 1860) - Jesus may indeed be “Michael” as “many” others say.

Hezekiah Holland (born ca. AD 1617, living AD 1660) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Adam Clarke (AD 1760 or AD 1762 – AD 1832) - Jesus is “Michael”.

George Balderston Kidd (Cottingham, near Hull, AD 28 July 1794 – AD 1852) - Jesus is “Michael”.

James Durham (AD 1622 – AD 1658) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Bryce Johnston (AD 1747 - AD 1805) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Vine's Expository Dictionary, by William Edwy Vine Section: "archangel” – the “archangels” “voice” is the “voice” of Jesus.

Thomas Haweis (AD 1 January 1734 - AD February 11, 1820) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Abingdon Bible Commentary, 1929; Editor, Edwin Lewis (AD 1881 – AD 1959) was an American Methodist theologian primarily associated with Drew University in New Jersey. Others involved - Frederick Carl Eiselen; David G. Downey. - Jesus is “Michael”.

Johann [John] Peter Lange (AD 10 April 1802 in Sonneborn (now a part of Wuppertal) – AD 9 July 1884), and Elijah Richard Craven (AD Mar. 28 1824, in Washington D.C. - AD Jan. 5 1908, in Philadelphia, Pa) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Thomas Robinson (AD 1813/14 - AD 1890) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Johann Friedrich Haug ((AD * 1680, AD † 18. May 1753) and The Berlenburger Bibel [aka 'Berleb. Bible', 'Berleburger Bibel', etc.] is in the years AD 1726 - AD 1742) - Jesus is “Michael”.
Impressive, but I don't buy it.
Christ Jesus is not MichaEl, a created being.
 

Johann

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Having said what exactly? What are you referring to specifically?

I know what the Bible says about prophets/prophetess, and what it says about false persons who claim such. Did you want to discuss the true from the false? Be glad to, along with the typology, and prediction, and identification of sister White in scripture at any point in time. Try to keep up now. :)
EGW is never mentioned IN Scripture, but you hold to here [erroneous] prophetic writings as "infallible"
 

Johann

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Furthermore:

Sir William Smith (AD 20 May 1813 – AD 7 October 1893) was an English lexicographer.

A Comprehensive Dictionary of the Bible. Mainly abridged from Dr. WM. Smith's Dictionary of the Bible, but comprising Important Additions and Improvements from the works of Robinson, Gesenius, Furst, Pape, Pott, Winer, Keil, Lange, Kitto, Fairbairn, Alexander, Barnes, Bush, Thomson, Stanley, Porter, Tristram, King, Ayre, and many other eminent scholars, commentators, travellers, and authors in various departments. Designed to be a Complete Guide in regard to the pronunciation and signification of Scriptural names; the solution of difficulties respecting the interpretation, authority, and harmony of the Old and New Testaments; the history and description of Biblical customs, events, places, persons, animals, plants, minerals, and other things concerning which information is needed for an intelligent and thorough study of the Holy Scriptures, and of the books of the apocrypha. By Sir William Smith; Edited by Rev. Samuel W. Barnum. Illustrated with five hundred maps and engravings. New York: D. Appleton & Co., 90, 92 & 94 Grand Street. London: 16 Little Britain. 1868.

"... [Page 41] Angels [ane'jelz] (fr. Gr. = messengers = Heb. malachim). ... In many passages "the angel of God," "the angel of Jehovah," is a manifestation of God himself. Compare Gen. XXII. 11 with 12, and Ex. III. 2 with 6 and 14; where the "angel of Jehovah" is called "God," and "Jehovah," and accepts the worship due to God alone. (Contrast Rev. XIX. 10, XXII. 9.) See also Gen. XVI. 7, 13, XXXI. 11, 13, XLVIII. 15, 16; Num. XXII. 22, 32, 35, and comp. Is. LXIII. 9 with Ex. XXXIII. 14, &c., &c. Side by side with these expressions, we read of God's being manifested in the form of man; as to Abraham at Mamre (Gen. XVIII. 2, 22, comp. XIX. 1), to Jacob at Peniel (Gen. XXXII. 24, 30), to Joshua at Gilgal (Josh. V. 13, 15), &c. Apparently both sets of passages refer to the same kind of manifestation of the Divine Presence. Now, since "no man hath seen God" (the Father) "at any time," and "the only-begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath revealed Him" (Jn. I. 18), the "Angel of the Lord" in such passages must be He, who is from the beginning the "Word," i.e. the Manifester or Revealer of God, and these appearances must be "fore-shadowings of the Incarnation." Besides this highest application of "angel" or "messenger" it is used of any messengers of God..." [Page 41-42]​
… [Page 42] The Incarnation marks a new epoch of angelic ministration. "The angel of Jehovah," the lord of all created angels, having now descended from heaven to earth, it was natural that His servants should continue to do Him service there. ..." [Pages 41-42] - A comprehensive dictionary of the Bible : Smith, William, Sir, 1813-1893 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
"... [Page 51] Apostle [a-pos'l] (fr. Gr. = one sent forth) ... It is once applied to the Lord Jesus Christ, the one sent from God (Heb. III. 1; comp. Mal. III. 1; Jn. III. 34; Ex. III. 10-15; Angels). ..." [Page 51] - A comprehensive dictionary of the Bible : Smith, William, Sir, 1813-1893 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
"... [Page 645] Michael ... [Page 645-646]​
… [Page 646] Many (Luther, Hengstenberg, Dr. W. L. Alexander [in Kitto], Prof. Douglas [in Fairbairn], &c.) maintain that Michael = the Messiah or Lord Jesus Christ (compare Dan. X. 21, XII. 1 with IX. 25; Rev. XII. 7 with 1 Jn. III. 8). "Michael designates Him," says Prof. Douglas, "as does also the title 'Angel' or 'Archangel,'" not simply in His divine essence, but in an official character of subordination, as the Messenger of Jehovah and the Captain of the Lord's host. Professor Douglas compares the answer of Michael in Jude 9 with those of Christ in Mat. IV. 4, 7, 10, and remarks that the opposition of Michael and the devil here "is without a parallel in Scripture, if Michael be a created angel; whereas it is a very common opposition indeed, if Michael be Christ." ..." [Pages 645-646] - A comprehensive dictionary of the Bible : Smith, William, Sir, 1813-1893 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
I get the distinct impression that you are flooding this thread with SDA teachings, sure hope @Rita is reading this, unless, of course, we have Mods here who are SDA
 

Rita

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There are no rules with regards to SDA not being allowed to start threads or communicate what they believe, unless it is in a manner that is harassment ( which applies to anyone ).
This is the unorthodox forum !
However the posts are getting a bit lengthy and progressive and perhaps the fact that this threads OP was directed at Aunty Jane and she has expressed that she doesn’t want to debate , maybe it has run it’s course.
 
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