@Aunty Jane - A thread to discuss, with you specifically, a few things, if you will indulge a little time with me. Thank you.

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Adventageous

Adventageous

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RLT63 said:
That was no Angel.
Click to expand...
Furthermore,

The Imperial Bible-Dictionary, Historical, Biographical, Geographical, and Doctrinal: including the Natural History, Antiquities, Manners, Customs, and Religious Rites and Ceremonies mentioned in the Scriptures, and an account of the several Books of the Old and New Testaments; edited by the Rev. Patrick Fairbairn, D.D., author of "Typology of Scripture," "Commentary of Ezekiel," etc. Illustrated by numerous engravings, Volume I.; London: Blackie and Son, Paternoster Row; and Glasgow and Edinburgh. 1866.

"... [Page 87] ANGELS [in Greek ἄγγελος, and in Hebrew מַלְאָךְ, melakim]. Both he Greek and Hebrew terms originally import any kind of persons or agencies sent forth -- messengers; and they are occasionally employed in Scripture in this original sense, though usually, in such cases, the rendering in our English version is no angels, but messengers. (For ex. Job I. 14, 1 Sa. XI. 3.; Lu. IX. 52.) There are other passages, however, in which the rendering angels is sometimes preserved, but in which the reference still is to beings or agencies of an earthly kind, not to those possessed of angelic natures. ... Of the same description are those passages in which the term is applied to prophets, as persons commissioned by God to deliver messages in his name; thus Haggai is called the Lord's angel, ch. I. 13. (messenger in English version), as is Messiah's forerunner in Mal. III. 1; and the epithet is even applied to Israel generally, with reference more especially to his prophetical calling, as appointed by God to be the light and benefactor of the world, Isa. XIII. 19. So, again, and with reference merely to another aspect of the delegated trust committed to the covenant-people, there are passages in which the priesthood has the term applied to it; as at Mal. II. 7, "The priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth; for he is the angel (English version, messenger) of the Lord of hosts." ... [Page 87-88]​
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... [Page 88] 3. Finally, there is the angel, by way of eminence -- one who, from the epithets applied to him, and the acts ascribed to him, appears to be infinitely raised above all besides who bear the name of angel -- designated sometimes "the angel of the Lord's presence," "the angel in whom his name is," "the angel of the covenant and Lord of the temple," "Michael the archangel," Is. LXIII. 9; Ex. XXIII. 21; Mal. III. 1; Jude 9, &c., and represented as offering up the prayers of God's people, discomfiting their enemies, and symbolically taking possession of the whole world as his proper heritage, Re. VIII. 3; XII. 7; X. 2. It is uniformly but one being to whom such peculiar acts and designations are ascribed; they are never spoken of as belonging to a company, or as shared by one in common with some others; and, as they clearly imply divine properties, and performances strictly mediatorial and redemptive, they can be understood of none but the Lord Jesus Christ. Precisely as he was called "the apostle and high-priest of our profession," from being in these respects the original and perfection of which others were but the copy; so in a sense altogether peculiar he bore the name of angel, because he was, as no other could be, the delegate of Heaven to sinful men -- "He whom the Father sent" to reveal to them his counsel, and for ever establish the covenant of their peace. …​
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"... [Page 106] APOSTLE [Gr. ἀπόστολος], one sent forth with any special message or commission. ... [Page 106,108]​
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... [Page 108] The term APOSTLE is once, though only once, in Scripture applied to our Lord; in He. III. 1 he is called the "apostle and high-priest of our profession." It merely turns into a personal designation the idea of his being the One emphatically sent by the Father to reveal his mind and accomplish the work of reconciliation, comp. Jn. IV. 34; V. 23, &c. ..." [Pages 106,108] - The imperial Bible-dictionary : historical, biographical, geographical, and doctrinal; including the natural history, antiquities, manners, customs and religious rites and ceremonies mentioned in the Scriptures, and an account of the several books of the Old and New Testamen; illustrated by numerous engravings : Fairbairn, Patrick, 1805-1874 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive​
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"... [Page 962] Joshua ... [Page 962-963]​
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... [Page 963] The general conviction of the Christian church has always been that Joshua was very eminently a type of our Lord Jesus Christ ... Even in his office as captain of the Lord's host, Joshua did homage to him to whom this office rightfully belongs, whom he saw in vision as he was commencing his enterprise, Jos. V. 13 - VI. 2. ..." [Pages 962-963] - The imperial Bible-dictionary : historical, biographical, geographical, and doctrinal; including the natural history, antiquities, manners, customs and religious rites and ceremonies mentioned in the Scriptures, and an account of the several books of the Old and New Testamen; illustrated by numerous engravings : Fairbairn, Patrick, 1805-1874 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive​
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"... [Page 990] JUDGES, THE BOOK OF ... [Page 990,992]​
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… [Page 992] Moses had been commissioned by the Son of God, The Angel of the Covenant, who went before the people in all their marches, Ex. III. 1-6; XIII. 21; XIV. 19; &c. ... Agreeably to this, the true grouping of the events in the time of the judges must be looked for in connection with the coming forth of the Angel of the Covenant ..." [Pages 990,992] - The imperial Bible-dictionary : historical, biographical, geographical, and doctrinal; including the natural history, antiquities, manners, customs and religious rites and ceremonies mentioned in the Scriptures, and an account of the several books of the Old and New Testamen; illustrated by numerous engravings : Fairbairn, Patrick, 1805-1874 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive​
 
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Adventageous

Adventageous

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RLT63 said:
That was no Angel.
Click to expand...
Furthermore:

The Imperial Bible-Dictionary, Historical, Biographical, Geographical, and Doctrinal: including the Natural History, Antiquities, Manners, Customs, and Religious Rites and Ceremonies mentioned in the Scriptures, and an account of the several Books of the Old and New Testaments; edited by the Rev. Patrick Fairbairn, D.D., author of "Typology of Scripture," "Commentary of Ezekiel," etc. Illustrated by numerous engravings, Volume II.; London: Blackie and Son, Paternoster Row; and Glasgow and Edinburgh. 1866.

"... [Page 227] MESSIAH (מָשִׁיחַ, Χριστός) ... [Page 227-228]​
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... [Page 228] We have already shown, from the Psalms and four of the Prophets, that the Messiah was to be king of the house of David, and we might add several more references to the prophetical books, in which he is spoken of as a Branch (Zech. III. 8, referring to Jeremiah's prophecy about the Branch to be raised to David), a King, Is. XXXII. 1; Je. XXIII. 5; Zec. VI. 13; IX. 9; a Prince, Eze XXXIV. 21; a Ruler, Mi. V. 2; Is. IV. 4; a Shepherd, Mi. V. 4; Is. XL. 11; Je. XXIII. 4; Eze. XXXVII. 21; Zec. XI; and he appears to be represented by Michael the Prince, Da. X. XII. ..." [Pages 227-228] - The imperial Bible-dictionary : historical, biographical, geographical, and doctrinal; including the natural history, antiquities, manners, customs and religious rites and ceremonies mentioned in the Scriptures, and an account of the several books of the Old and New Testamen; illustrated by numerous engravings : Fairbairn, Patrick, 1805-1874 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive​
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"... [Page 234] MICHAEL [who is like unto God?] 1. The name of a superhuman being, Da. X. 13,21; XII. 1; Jude 9; Re. XII. 7, in regard to whom there have in general been two rival opinions, either that he is the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, or that he is one of the so-called seven archangels. We hold the former opinion, and very much on the grounds stated by old writers, and repeated by Hengstenberg in his Commentary on Revelation and in his Christology. ... Hengstenberg (Christologie, band III. abth. 2, s. 51,52) prefers to reckon the prince to be the abstraction of all the successive kings, the ideal king of Persia: and in the Old Testament age, he says, Michael appeared as yet only to be "one of the chief princes," comparing, Is. LIII. 12. Or though we hold that this prince of Persia was a common angel, the "one of the chief princes" opposed to him, and higher than him, may quite well be the Son of God, "the Prince of the kings of the earth," "the King of kings and Lord of lords, "Re. I. 5; XIX. 16. This not only may be: it is the only view which seems to us natural, if the marginal translation be adopted, as we believe it ought to be, "Michael the first of the chief princes," answering to the description more fully given in the New Testament, "who is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of every creature: for by him were all things created that are in heaven and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him and for him: and he is before all things, and by him all things consist: and he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the first-born from the dead: that in all things he might have the pre-eminence." Col. I. 15-18. And in the nature of this case this is the only help that was adequate to the necessity. This angel who talked with Daniel had already been withstood for a considerable time by the prince of the kingdom of Persia; but, lo, Michael came to help him. Unless God had laid help really on one that was mighty, that mighty one the King of Israel, whose perpetually victorious course is celebrated in Ps. XLV., there might be a repetition of delays and even positive defeats. ... [Page 234-235]​
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… [Page 235] On one supposition alone could it be comforting and strengthening--if Michael is the Son of God, who said to his disciples, "These things have I spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace: in the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world." Jn. XVI. 33. This assurance did cheer Isaiah, Is. VIII. 9, 10, and Paul, Ro. VIII. 35-39, and John, 1 Jn. IV. 4; V. 4, 5; and something immeasurable short of this would rather have added to Daniel's anxieties than removed them. The third text is very near the conclusion of the angel's revelation to him. "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people; and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book." It would be easy to quote parallels to this text which refer to Christ: for instance, those which speak of the unexampled trouble from which he is to deliver his people, and the Lamb's book of life in which their names are written. ... that Michael is here called, ... "the great prince," because no other prince is worthy to be named in the same breath with him; as in fact he is that unlimited and everlasting ruler of whom the whole book of Daniel prophesies, at the coming of whose kingdom all its rivals were swept away, and no place was found for them. (2) In Da. X. 5, 6 before this interpreting angel appears to Daniel, the prophet has the vision of another being: ... This language at once suggests to us other descriptions of the Lord himself, as he appeared in somewhat of a human form to Daniel's older contemporary Ezekiel, Eze. I. X., and also as the great High-priest of the heavenly temple, Eze. IX. 2, compare Da. XII. 6, 7. Not less obvious is the resemblance of the description to that of the glorified Redeemer in Re. I. 13-15, compare also ch. X. 1; all the more that the effects of the visions were remarkably similar in the two cases of Daniel and of John. A dispassionate consideration can scarcely fail to convince us that this being whom Daniel saw is the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, where the prophet knew who it was, as we do, or not. But whom else can we suppose to be intended by Michael; of whom the angel repeatedly speaks to him in the following discourse, of whom he yet gives no description, but takes for granted that he is sufficiently known already? The prophet's mind was full of the great vision he had just had, and everything is simple enough on the supposition that it was Michael whom he had been seeing; …​
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... He was the Angel, the Angel of the Covenant, of whom so much had been said in the books of Moses (see ANGELS): who had appeared to Joshua as the Captain of the Lord's Host; who had come forth in the several critical times during the period of the Judges (see JUDGES): and whom after occasional later manifestations, was recognized by Isaiah, ch. LXIII. 9, as the Angel of the Lord's presence, who had ever been the instrument of saving Israel. ... To deny that this Angel of the Lord is the Son of God is to introduce confusion into the whole of the record of God's dealings with his ancient people; if on the contrary, we affirm their identity, then the supposition that he and Michael are one and the same is the simplest and most natural imaginable, as will appear all the more if we attempt to construct a different theory. And as we have already noticed the resemblance of the interpreting angel in the visions of Zechariah, and in this vision of Daniel: so we have the Angel of the Lord, undoubtedly the Angel of the Covenant, in Zechariah, precisely as Michael here. ... And it is to be observed that this name, Michael, "Who is like God?" seems to be given in allusion to the expression in Ex. XV. 11, "Who is like unto thee, O Lord, among the gods?" amplified as this in Ps. LXXXIX. 6-8 ... Michael is certainly the fitting title of him who professed himself to be "equal with God," according to the understanding both of his apostles and of his enemies, Jn. V. 18; [Page 235-236] ...​
 
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Adventageous

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RLT63 said:
That was no Angel.
Click to expand...
Continuing furthermore,

… [Page 236] Phi. II. 6. In contrast with this name Michael, and its use in the Revelation to be noticed immediately, Hengstenberg calls attention to the worship of the dragon and the apocalyptic beast, Re. XIII. 4; when his votaries asked, "Who is like unto the beast? Who is able to make war with him?" (5) The passage in Revelation, ch. XII. 7-9, undeniably refers to the same class of subjects as that in Daniel, and Michael is the same person in both. ... This victory is attributed in the hymn at ver. 10, 11, to Christ, as it is here to Michael. …​
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… It is only fair to the advocates of the other view, to acknowledge a seeming support from Scripture which they derive from the remaining passage where Michael is named. It is written in Jude 9, ... Is it suitable to say of the Eternal Son of God, the second person in the Trinity, that he durst not reply to Satan? But entering no further than is unavoidable into the interpretation of this confessedly difficult passage, we reply that Michael designates him (as does also the title Angel, or Archangel), not simply in his divine essence, but in an official character of subordination, as the Messenger of Jehovah and the Captain of the Lord's host. His not daring to rebuke the devil in a particular case is no more marvelous than his living a life of prayer and dependence all the time he spent in this world; his not rebuking the devil, but saying, "The Lord rebuke thee," reminds us also of his replies to the temptations in the wilderness, which consisted of little more than passages of Scripture, out of three times twice entirely so. Nay, the opposition of Michael and the devil in this passage is without a parallel in Scripture, if Michael be a created angel: whereas it is a very common opposition indeed if Michael be Christ. And the reference of Jude to Zec. III. 1, 2, is undeniable; even if we do not admit the identity of meaning, we must allow that the apostle's language took its shape from that of the prophet. Now, in Zechariah, it is the angel of the Lord who confronts Satan, and we have already given or referred to reasons for holding that this angel is Christ. And as it often happens that "the Angel of the Lord" passes into "the Lord" himself in the course of narratives in the Old Testament, so in this instance; "The Lord said unto Satan, the Lord rebuke thee, O Satan: even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee:" impressing on us the conviction that Michael is himself Jehovah in a certain subordinate relation to Jehovah; namely, the Son sent by the Father, and acting as his servant. …​
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Prophecy viewed in respect to its distinctive nature, its special function, and proper interpretation. by Patrick Fairbairn, D.D. principal of the Free Church College, Glasgow; Author of "Typology of Scripture," "Ezekiel and the Book of His Prophecy," Etc. Second Edition. Edinburgh: T. and T. Clark, 38, George, Street. London: Hamilton, Adams, and Co. Dublin: John Robertson and Co. 1865.

"... [Page 344; Internally Page 325] 1. We have taken no special notice of the conflict in the heavenly places being, in chap. XII. 7, 8, ascribed to Michael and his angels; holding it to have been virtually settled by Ode (De Angelis, p. 1032, sq.), Vitringa, Hengstenberg, etc., on the passage, that Michael is but another name for Christ -- a name given Him in special connection with this great conflict to indicate the certainty of His success, grounded on his divine nature, for it means, Who is like God?" [Page 344; Internally Page 325] - Prophecy viewed in respect to its distinctive nature, its special function, and proper interpretation : Fairbairn, Patrick, 1805-1874 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive​
 
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Adventageous

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RLT63 said:
That was no Angel.
Click to expand...
Furthermore:

Sir William Smith (AD 20 May 1813 – AD 7 October 1893) was an English lexicographer.

A Comprehensive Dictionary of the Bible. Mainly abridged from Dr. WM. Smith's Dictionary of the Bible, but comprising Important Additions and Improvements from the works of Robinson, Gesenius, Furst, Pape, Pott, Winer, Keil, Lange, Kitto, Fairbairn, Alexander, Barnes, Bush, Thomson, Stanley, Porter, Tristram, King, Ayre, and many other eminent scholars, commentators, travellers, and authors in various departments. Designed to be a Complete Guide in regard to the pronunciation and signification of Scriptural names; the solution of difficulties respecting the interpretation, authority, and harmony of the Old and New Testaments; the history and description of Biblical customs, events, places, persons, animals, plants, minerals, and other things concerning which information is needed for an intelligent and thorough study of the Holy Scriptures, and of the books of the apocrypha. By Sir William Smith; Edited by Rev. Samuel W. Barnum. Illustrated with five hundred maps and engravings. New York: D. Appleton & Co., 90, 92 & 94 Grand Street. London: 16 Little Britain. 1868.

"... [Page 41] Angels [ane'jelz] (fr. Gr. = messengers = Heb. malachim). ... In many passages "the angel of God," "the angel of Jehovah," is a manifestation of God himself. Compare Gen. XXII. 11 with 12, and Ex. III. 2 with 6 and 14; where the "angel of Jehovah" is called "God," and "Jehovah," and accepts the worship due to God alone. (Contrast Rev. XIX. 10, XXII. 9.) See also Gen. XVI. 7, 13, XXXI. 11, 13, XLVIII. 15, 16; Num. XXII. 22, 32, 35, and comp. Is. LXIII. 9 with Ex. XXXIII. 14, &c., &c. Side by side with these expressions, we read of God's being manifested in the form of man; as to Abraham at Mamre (Gen. XVIII. 2, 22, comp. XIX. 1), to Jacob at Peniel (Gen. XXXII. 24, 30), to Joshua at Gilgal (Josh. V. 13, 15), &c. Apparently both sets of passages refer to the same kind of manifestation of the Divine Presence. Now, since "no man hath seen God" (the Father) "at any time," and "the only-begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath revealed Him" (Jn. I. 18), the "Angel of the Lord" in such passages must be He, who is from the beginning the "Word," i.e. the Manifester or Revealer of God, and these appearances must be "fore-shadowings of the Incarnation." Besides this highest application of "angel" or "messenger" it is used of any messengers of God..." [Page 41-42]​
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… [Page 42] The Incarnation marks a new epoch of angelic ministration. "The angel of Jehovah," the lord of all created angels, having now descended from heaven to earth, it was natural that His servants should continue to do Him service there. ..." [Pages 41-42] - A comprehensive dictionary of the Bible : Smith, William, Sir, 1813-1893 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive​
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"... [Page 51] Apostle [a-pos'l] (fr. Gr. = one sent forth) ... It is once applied to the Lord Jesus Christ, the one sent from God (Heb. III. 1; comp. Mal. III. 1; Jn. III. 34; Ex. III. 10-15; Angels). ..." [Page 51] - A comprehensive dictionary of the Bible : Smith, William, Sir, 1813-1893 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive​
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"... [Page 645] Michael ... [Page 645-646]​
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… [Page 646] Many (Luther, Hengstenberg, Dr. W. L. Alexander [in Kitto], Prof. Douglas [in Fairbairn], &c.) maintain that Michael = the Messiah or Lord Jesus Christ (compare Dan. X. 21, XII. 1 with IX. 25; Rev. XII. 7 with 1 Jn. III. 8). "Michael designates Him," says Prof. Douglas, "as does also the title 'Angel' or 'Archangel,'" not simply in His divine essence, but in an official character of subordination, as the Messenger of Jehovah and the Captain of the Lord's host. Professor Douglas compares the answer of Michael in Jude 9 with those of Christ in Mat. IV. 4, 7, 10, and remarks that the opposition of Michael and the devil here "is without a parallel in Scripture, if Michael be a created angel; whereas it is a very common opposition indeed, if Michael be Christ." ..." [Pages 645-646] - A comprehensive dictionary of the Bible : Smith, William, Sir, 1813-1893 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive​
 
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Adventageous

Adventageous

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RLT63 said:
The Angel of the Lord is a theophany, not an angel . So again I don’t disagree with you (except about Michael)
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The word "theophany" is simply a made up word. The Bible uses the word "angel" with the Son of God. Again, use the right definition, and you won't have to have made up words.
 
Adventageous

Adventageous

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RLT63 said:
That was no Angel.
Click to expand...
Furthermore,

The London Encyclopedia, or Universal Dictionary of Science, Art, Literature, and Practical Mechanics, comprising a popular view of the present state of knowledge. Illustrated by numerous engravings, a general atlas, and appropriate diagrams. By the original editor of the Encyclopaedia Metropolitana, assisted by eminent professional and other gentlemen. In Twenty-two volumes. Volume. XIV. Medicine to Mithridates; Edited by Thomas Curtis, of Grove House School, Islington. 1839.
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"[Page 483] MICHAEL, or Michel, i.e. who is like to God? ... The scripture account of Michael is that he was an archangel ... that he had an army of angels under his command (Rev. XII. 7.); that he fought with the dragon, or Satan, and his angels; and that contending with the Devil, he disputed about the body of Moses (Jude 9). As to the combat between Michael and the Dragon, some authors understand it literally. Others take it in a figurative sense: ... It has been supposed that it was Michael who conducted the Israelites in their journey through the wilderness (see Exod. XXXII. 34. and XXXIII. 2.); who appeared to Moses in the burning bush, to Joshua in the fields of Jericho, and to Gideon and Manoah the father of Sampson. In a word, to him have been imputed the greatest part of the most remarkable appearances in the Old and New Testament. Bishop Horsely, in his remarkable sermon on Dan. IV. 17, labors to prove that Michael the archangel is the Redeemer." [Page 483] - The London encyclopaedia, or, Universal dictionary of science, art, literature, and practical mechanics, by the orig. ed. of the Encyclopaedia metropolitana [T. Curtis].​

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The Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible; Volume 4; M-P, Revised, Full-Color Edition; Merrill C. Tenney, General Editor/Moises Silva, Revision Editor. 2010
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"... Michael the Archangel ... E. W. Hengstenberg (Christology of the Old Testament, 2nd ed. 4 vols. [1858-68], 4:266-71) and some other Protestants have identified Michael with the glorious man dressed in linen (Dan. 10:5-6) and also with the "angel of the Lord" and then Christ. They, however, uphold the DEITY OF CHRIST. ... J. E. ROSSCUP ..." - The Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible, Volume 4​
 
Adventageous

Adventageous

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RLT63 said:
That was no Angel.
Click to expand...
Furthermore,

John Brown of Haddington (AD 1722 – AD 19 June 1787) was a Scottish divine and author. His works include “The Self-Interpreting Bible”, “The Dictionary of the Bible” [a Calvinistic theology], and “A General History of the Christian Church”.

A Dictionary of the Holy Bible: containing an Historical Account of the Persons; a Geographical and Historical Account of the Places; A Literal, Critical, and Systematical Description of Other Objects, whether Natural, Artificial, Civil, Religious or Military; and the Explication of the Appelative Terms mentioned in the writings of the Old and New Testament. The whole comprising whatever important is known concerning the antiquities of the Hebrews nation and Church of God; -- Forming a Sacred Commentary; a Body of Scripture History, Chronology and Divinity; and Serving in a great measure as a concordance to the Bible. By the Rev. John Brown, Late minister of the Gospel at Haddington, and Professor of Divinity, under the Associate Synod. First Albany Edition, (from the Fifth Genuine Edinburgh Edition,) containing the Author's Last Additions and Corrections, and further enlarged and corrected by his sons; with a Life of the Author, and an Essay on the Evidence of Christianity. Two Volumes in One. Albany: Printed by H. C. Southwick .... No. 95, State-Street. 1816. - A Dictionary of the Holy Bible

"... [Page 37] Angel, or messenger ... [Page 37-38; Right-hand Column] Jesus Christ is called an ANGEL. He is sent by his Father to publish and fulfil the work of our redemption, and to him hath he committed all judgment. He appeared to Hager, to Abraham, to Jacob, to Moses, to Balaam, to Joshua, to the Hebrews at Bochim, to Gideon and Manoah, to Daniel, to Zechariah the prophet, and to the apostle John, in the character of an angel, Gen. XVI. XVIII. Exod. III. Numb. XXII. Josh. V. Judg. II. 6. XIII. XXXII. Dan. X. Zech. I. IV. Whenever one in this character is represented speaking in the manner of God, or as sovereign of the church, we are to understand him of our redeemer. He is called the Angel of the covenant : he publishes the plan, he fulfils the condition, he executes the promise of the covenant of grace; Mal. III. 1. He is the Angel of God's presence or face : he is the Son of his love, the desire of his eyes, and the glass in which his glory is displayed; he came from his bosom, is always near him, sits at his right hand, and appears before his throne, interceding for us, Isa. LXIII. 9. ..." [Pages 37-38]​
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"... [Page 51] Archangel, a chief angel; but whether this word in scripture ever denotes a created angel, or always Christ, the Lord of angels, is hard to determine, Jude 9. 1 Thess. IV. 18. ..." [Page 51]​
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"... [Page 94] Messenger; one sent on an errand, to carry a message or the like. Christ is called the messenger of the covenant. In his Father's name he came to fulfil the condition of the new covenant, and to publish and apply its contents to men by his word and Spirit, Mal. III. 1. Job XXXIII. 23. ..." [Page 94]​
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"… [Page 95] MICHAEL, the archangel, at least sometimes signifies Jesus Christ. He is the person who is as God, and which this name signifies; against him and his angels, his ministers and followers, the devil, and the heathen empire of Rome, and their agents, fought in the way of reproach, laws, persecutions, &c. Revelation xii. 7. He is the great Prince ..., who,...shall raise the dead, Dan. xii. 1,2,3 ..." [Page 95]​

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James Wood (AD 1751 – AD 1840) Wesleyan Methodist minister, now buried in Bristol, who largely based his encyclopedic dictionary of the Bible on that of Augustin Calmet.

A Dictionary of the Holy Bible: Containing an Historical Account of the Persons; A Geographical Account of the Places; A Literal, Critical, and Systematical Description of Other Objects; whether Natural, Artificial, Civil, Religious, or Military; And, an Explication of the Appellative Terms mentioned in the Old and New Testament: The Whole Comprising Whatever is of Importance to be Known concerning the Antiquities of the Hebrews; Forming a Body of Scripture History, Chronology, and Divinity; And, Serving in a Great Measure, as a Concordance to the Bible; extracted chiefly from Calmet, and others. Collated with other Works of the kind, with numerous Additions from various Authors, and a considerable quantity of Original Matter, By James Wood, In Two Volumes, Volume I.; New York: Published by D. Hitt, and T. Ware, for the Methodist Connexion in the United States. Paul and Thomas, Printers. 1813. - A Dictionary of the Holy Bible

"... [Page 75] Angel, or messenger [Page 75, 77] ... Jesus Christ is called and ANGEL. He was sent by his Father to publish and fulfil the work of our redemption : and to him hath he committed all judgment. He appeared to Hager, to Abraham, to Jacob, to Moses, to Balaam, to Joshua, to the Hebrews at Bochim, to Gideon and Manoah, to Daniel, to Zechariah the prophet, and to the apostle John, in the character of an angel, Gen. XVI. XVIII. Exod. III. Numb. XXII. Josh. V. Judg. II. 6. and XIII. Dan. X. Zech. I.-IV. Whenever one in this character is represented speaking in the manner of God, or as sovereign of the church, we are to understand it of our redeemer. He is called the Angel of the covenant; he publishes the plan; he fulfils the condition; he executes the promise of the covenant of grace, Mal. III. 1. He is the Angel of God's presence or face : he is the Son of his love, the desire of his eyes, and the mirror in which his glory is displayed : he came from his bosom, is always near him, sits at his right hand, and appears before his throne, interceding for us, Isa. LXIII. 9. ..." [Pages 75,77]​
​
"… [Page 98] Archangel, the prince or chief angel. This word is only used twice in the sacred writings. viz. 1 Thess. IV. 16. and Jude 9. ... indeed some writers think this name is never to be applied to any created angel, but to Christ alone. ..." [Page 98]​
​
"… [Page 163] Messenger; one sent on an errand, to carry a message, or the like. Christ is called the messenger of the covenant. In his Father's name he came to publish and apply its contents to men by his word and Spirit, Mal. III. 1. Job XXXIII. 23. ..." [Page 163]​
​
"... [Page 166] MICHAEL, the archangel, at least sometimes signifies Jesus Christ. He is the person who is as God, and which this name signifies: against him and his angels, his ministers and followers, the devil, and the heathen empire of Rome, and their agents, fought in the way of reproach, laws, persecutions, &c. Revelation xii. 7. He is the great Prince ..., who,... shall raise the dead, Dan. xii. 1,2,3 ..." [Page 166]​
 
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RLT63 said:
That was no Angel.
Click to expand...
Furthermore,

Wikipedia, The Online Encyclopedia – Michael (Archangel); subsection - “Protestant Views”

"... Citing Hengstenberg, John A. Lees, in International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, states: "The earlier Protestant scholars usually identified Michael with the pre-incarnate Christ, finding support for their view, not only in the juxtaposition of the 'child' and the archangel in Rev 12:1-17, but also in the attributes ascribed to him in Daniel."[15] …​
​
… [15] "John A. Lees, "Michael" in James Orr (editor), ''The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia''(Eerdmans 1939)" ..." - Michael - Wikipedia %28archangel%29#Protestant views​

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, comment on section “Michael” by John A. Lees.

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia; James Orr, M.A., D.D., General Editor; John L. Nuelsen, D.D., LL.D.; Edgar Y. Mullins, D.D., LL.D. Assistant Editors; Morris O. Evans, D.D., Ph.D., Managing Editor; Volume III. Heresy-Naarah; Chicago, The Howard-Severance Company, 1915.

"... [Page 12; Internally Page Preface IX] As General and Consulting Editor the Publishers secured the services of the Reverend Professor James Orr, D.D., of the United Free Church College, Glasgow, Scotland, and with him were conjoined as Associate Editors the Reverend President Edgar Y. Mullins, D.D., of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Louisville, Kentucky, and the Reverend Bishop John L. Nuelsen, D.D., of the Methodist Episcopal Church, not of Zurich, Switzerland. The duties of Managing Editor were committed to the Reverend Morris O. Evans, D.D., of Cincinnati, Ohio; ... In all, nearly two hundred contributors, many of them scholars of the highest rank, have been employed upon this work during the past six years. Over one hundred of these contributors are residents of the United States, about sixty of Great Britain and Continental Europe, and the rest, of Canada, Syria, India, Australia, and other countries. Inspection of the Index of Contributors will show how largely all Churches in the respective countries are represented in this Encyclopedia. Anglicans, Baptists, Congregationalists, Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, with those of still other communions ..." [Page 12; Internally Page Preface IX] - The International standard Bible encyclopedia : Orr, James, 1844-1913, ed : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive​
​
"... [Page 692; Internally Page 2047] Michael ... "who is like God?" ... (11) "The archangel" (Jude ver 9). Probably also the unnamed archangel of 1 Thess 4 16 is Michael. In the OT he is mentioned by name only in Dnl. He is "one of the chief princes" (Dnl 10 13), the "prince" of Israel (10 21), "the great prince" (12 1); perhaps also "the prince of the host" (8 11). In all these passages Michael appears as the heavenly patron and champion of Israel; as the watchful guardian of the people of God against all foes earthly or devilish. ... [Page 692-693; Internally Page 2047-2048]​
​
[Page 693; Internally Page 2048] … The earlier Protestant scholars usually identified Michael with the preincarnate Christ, finding support for their view, not only in the juxtaposition of the "child" and the archangel in Rev 12, but also in the attributes ascribed to him in Dnl (for a full discussion see Hengstenberg, Offenbarung, I, 611-22, and an interesting survey in English by Dr. Douglas in Fairbairn's BD). John A. Lees ..." [Pages 692-693; Internally Pages 2047-2048] - The International standard Bible encyclopedia : Orr, James, 1844-1913, ed : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive​
archive.org

The International standard Bible encyclopedia : Orr, James, 1844-1913, ed : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The metadata below describe the original scanning. Follow the All Files: HTTP link in the View the book box to the left to find XML files that contain more...
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RLT63 said:
That was no Angel.
Click to expand...
Furthermore,

Roman Catholic Encyclopedia:

The Catholic Encyclopedia, an international work of reference on the Constitution, Doctrine, Disciple, and History of the Catholic Church, Edited by Charles G. Herbermann, Ph.D., LL.D. Edward A. Pace, Ph. D., D.D. Conde B. Pallen, PhD., LL.D. Thomas J. Shahan, D.D. John J. Wynne, S.J. Assisted by Numerous Collaborators ["... fully 500 ... and 150 editorial assistants" - To the Knights of Columbus and their Friends], Fifteen Volumes and Index, Volume 1 [Aachen - Assize], Special Edition under the Auspices of the Knight of Columbus Catholic Truth Committee; New York, The Encyclopedia Press, Inc., Nihil Obstat, November 1, 1907; Remy Lafort, S.T.D. Censor; Imprimatur [Maltese Cross] John Cardinal Farley, Archbishop of New York; Copyright, 1907 by Robert Appleton Company; Copyright, 1913 by the Encyclopedia Press, Inc.

"... [Page 479] We have had occasion to mention the Septuagint version more than once, and it may not be amiss to indicate a few passages where it is our only source of information regarding the angels. The best known passage is Isaiah 9:6, where the Septuagint gives the name of the Messias, as "the Angel of great Counsel". …​
​
... But while we read of "the Angels of God" meeting Jacob (Gen., XXXII, 1) we at other times read of one who is termed "the Angel of God" par excellence, e.g. Gen., XXXI, 11. ... the story in Gen., XIII, develops, the speaker is always "the Lord". Thus in the account of the Angel of the Lord who visited Gideon (Judges, VI), the visitor is alternately spoken of as "the Angel of the Lord" and as "the Lord". Similarly, in Judges, XIII, the Angel of the Lord appears, and both Manue and his wife exclaim: "We shall certainly die because we have seen God." ... in the story of the Exodus it is the Lord who goes before them in the pillar of a cloud (Exod., XIII, 21), and the Septuagint makes no change (cf. also Num., XIV, 14, and Neh., IX, 7-20). ... When we turn to Exod., XXXIII, where God is angry with His people for worshipping the golden calf, it is hard not to feel that it is God Himself who has hitherto been their guide, but who now refuses to accompany them any longer. … [Page 479-480]​
​
... [Page 480] The Massoretic text as well as the Vulgate of Exodus 3 and 19-20 clearly represent the Supreme Being as appearing to Moses in the bush and on Mount Sinai; ... The person of "the angel of the Lord" finds a counterpart in the personification of Wisdom in the Sapiential books and in at least one passage (Zechariah 3:1) it seems to stand for that "Son of Man" whom Daniel (7:13) saw brought before "the Ancient of Days". Zacharias says: "And the Lord showed me Jesus the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan stood on His right hand to be His adversary". Tertullian regards many of these passages as preludes to the Incarnation; as the Word of God adumbrating the sublime character in which He is one day to reveal Himself to men (cf. Against Praxeas 16; Against Marcion 2.27, 3.9, 1.10, 1.21-22). ... The earlier Fathers, going by the letter of the text, maintained that it was actually God Himself who appeared. He who appeared was called God and acted as God. It was not unnatural then for Tertullian, as we have already seen, to regard such manifestations in the light of preludes to the Incarnation, and most of the Eastern Fathers followed the same line of thought. It was held as recently as 1851 by Vandenbroeck, "Dissertatio Theologica de Theophaniis sub Veteri Testamento" (Louvain). ...​
​
... St. Augustine (Sermo vii, de Scripturis, P.G. V) when treating of the burning bush (Exodus 3) says: "... . . . Some maintain that he is called both the Lord and the angel of the Lord because he was Christ, indeed the prophet (Isaiah 9:6, Septuagint Version) clearly styles Christ the 'Angel of great Counsel.'"The saint proceeds to show that such a view is tenable though we must be careful not to fall into Arianism in stating it. ...​
​
... As an instance of how convinced some of the Fathers were in holding ..., we may note Theodoret's words (In Exod.): "The whole passage (Exodus 3) shows that it was God who appeared to him. But (Moses) called Him an angel in order to let us know that it was not God the Father whom he saw — for whose angel could the Father be? — but the Only-begotten Son, the Angel of great Counsel" (cf. Eusebius, Church History I.2.7; St. Irenaeus, Against Heresies 3:6). …" [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; Section "A", subsection "Angels", part "The term "angel" in the Septuagint"] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Angels​
 
RLT63

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Adventageous said:
Furthermore,

Wikipedia, The Online Encyclopedia – Michael (Archangel); subsection - “Protestant Views”

"... Citing Hengstenberg, John A. Lees, in International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, states: "The earlier Protestant scholars usually identified Michael with the pre-incarnate Christ, finding support for their view, not only in the juxtaposition of the 'child' and the archangel in Rev 12:1-17, but also in the attributes ascribed to him in Daniel."[15] …​
​
… [15] "John A. Lees, "Michael" in James Orr (editor), ''The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia''(Eerdmans 1939)" ..." - Michael - Wikipedia %28archangel%29#Protestant views​

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, comment on section “Michael” by John A. Lees.

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia; James Orr, M.A., D.D., General Editor; John L. Nuelsen, D.D., LL.D.; Edgar Y. Mullins, D.D., LL.D. Assistant Editors; Morris O. Evans, D.D., Ph.D., Managing Editor; Volume III. Heresy-Naarah; Chicago, The Howard-Severance Company, 1915.

"... [Page 12; Internally Page Preface IX] As General and Consulting Editor the Publishers secured the services of the Reverend Professor James Orr, D.D., of the United Free Church College, Glasgow, Scotland, and with him were conjoined as Associate Editors the Reverend President Edgar Y. Mullins, D.D., of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Louisville, Kentucky, and the Reverend Bishop John L. Nuelsen, D.D., of the Methodist Episcopal Church, not of Zurich, Switzerland. The duties of Managing Editor were committed to the Reverend Morris O. Evans, D.D., of Cincinnati, Ohio; ... In all, nearly two hundred contributors, many of them scholars of the highest rank, have been employed upon this work during the past six years. Over one hundred of these contributors are residents of the United States, about sixty of Great Britain and Continental Europe, and the rest, of Canada, Syria, India, Australia, and other countries. Inspection of the Index of Contributors will show how largely all Churches in the respective countries are represented in this Encyclopedia. Anglicans, Baptists, Congregationalists, Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, with those of still other communions ..." [Page 12; Internally Page Preface IX] - The International standard Bible encyclopedia : Orr, James, 1844-1913, ed : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive​
​
"... [Page 692; Internally Page 2047] Michael ... "who is like God?" ... (11) "The archangel" (Jude ver 9). Probably also the unnamed archangel of 1 Thess 4 16 is Michael. In the OT he is mentioned by name only in Dnl. He is "one of the chief princes" (Dnl 10 13), the "prince" of Israel (10 21), "the great prince" (12 1); perhaps also "the prince of the host" (8 11). In all these passages Michael appears as the heavenly patron and champion of Israel; as the watchful guardian of the people of God against all foes earthly or devilish. ... [Page 692-693; Internally Page 2047-2048]​
​
[Page 693; Internally Page 2048] … The earlier Protestant scholars usually identified Michael with the preincarnate Christ, finding support for their view, not only in the juxtaposition of the "child" and the archangel in Rev 12, but also in the attributes ascribed to him in Dnl (for a full discussion see Hengstenberg, Offenbarung, I, 611-22, and an interesting survey in English by Dr. Douglas in Fairbairn's BD). John A. Lees ..." [Pages 692-693; Internally Pages 2047-2048] - The International standard Bible encyclopedia : Orr, James, 1844-1913, ed : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive​
archive.org

The International standard Bible encyclopedia : Orr, James, 1844-1913, ed : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The metadata below describe the original scanning. Follow the All Files: HTTP link in the View the book box to the left to find XML files that contain more...
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Click to expand...
Now there is someone who posts longer posts than Aunty Jane
 
Adventageous

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Aunty Jane said:
Please don’t quote the KJB in responses to me...it’s a language I do not speak and do not comprehend well.
Click to expand...
I do not care what your preference is. I will continue to quote the Bible (KJB) to you, inspite of your hatred for God's word. If you do not like hearing the word, you are free to flee as devils at the word of God, or to close your eyes, and stop your ears as those possessed with devils in the NT.

It is written in plain, and up to date English (used and spoke the world over, as the British Empire was once called the "Empire upon which the sun never sets"), with some purposeful archaisms, included by God, and useful and specific terminology.

Psa 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psa 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
 
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RLT63

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Adventageous said:
Furthermore,

Roman Catholic Encyclopedia:

The Catholic Encyclopedia, an international work of reference on the Constitution, Doctrine, Disciple, and History of the Catholic Church, Edited by Charles G. Herbermann, Ph.D., LL.D. Edward A. Pace, Ph. D., D.D. Conde B. Pallen, PhD., LL.D. Thomas J. Shahan, D.D. John J. Wynne, S.J. Assisted by Numerous Collaborators ["... fully 500 ... and 150 editorial assistants" - To the Knights of Columbus and their Friends], Fifteen Volumes and Index, Volume 1 [Aachen - Assize], Special Edition under the Auspices of the Knight of Columbus Catholic Truth Committee; New York, The Encyclopedia Press, Inc., Nihil Obstat, November 1, 1907; Remy Lafort, S.T.D. Censor; Imprimatur [Maltese Cross] John Cardinal Farley, Archbishop of New York; Copyright, 1907 by Robert Appleton Company; Copyright, 1913 by the Encyclopedia Press, Inc.

"... [Page 479] We have had occasion to mention the Septuagint version more than once, and it may not be amiss to indicate a few passages where it is our only source of information regarding the angels. The best known passage is Isaiah 9:6, where the Septuagint gives the name of the Messias, as "the Angel of great Counsel". …​
​
... But while we read of "the Angels of God" meeting Jacob (Gen., XXXII, 1) we at other times read of one who is termed "the Angel of God" par excellence, e.g. Gen., XXXI, 11. ... the story in Gen., XIII, develops, the speaker is always "the Lord". Thus in the account of the Angel of the Lord who visited Gideon (Judges, VI), the visitor is alternately spoken of as "the Angel of the Lord" and as "the Lord". Similarly, in Judges, XIII, the Angel of the Lord appears, and both Manue and his wife exclaim: "We shall certainly die because we have seen God." ... in the story of the Exodus it is the Lord who goes before them in the pillar of a cloud (Exod., XIII, 21), and the Septuagint makes no change (cf. also Num., XIV, 14, and Neh., IX, 7-20). ... When we turn to Exod., XXXIII, where God is angry with His people for worshipping the golden calf, it is hard not to feel that it is God Himself who has hitherto been their guide, but who now refuses to accompany them any longer. … [Page 479-480]​
​
... [Page 480] The Massoretic text as well as the Vulgate of Exodus 3 and 19-20 clearly represent the Supreme Being as appearing to Moses in the bush and on Mount Sinai; ... The person of "the angel of the Lord" finds a counterpart in the personification of Wisdom in the Sapiential books and in at least one passage (Zechariah 3:1) it seems to stand for that "Son of Man" whom Daniel (7:13) saw brought before "the Ancient of Days". Zacharias says: "And the Lord showed me Jesus the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan stood on His right hand to be His adversary". Tertullian regards many of these passages as preludes to the Incarnation; as the Word of God adumbrating the sublime character in which He is one day to reveal Himself to men (cf. Against Praxeas 16; Against Marcion 2.27, 3.9, 1.10, 1.21-22). ... The earlier Fathers, going by the letter of the text, maintained that it was actually God Himself who appeared. He who appeared was called God and acted as God. It was not unnatural then for Tertullian, as we have already seen, to regard such manifestations in the light of preludes to the Incarnation, and most of the Eastern Fathers followed the same line of thought. It was held as recently as 1851 by Vandenbroeck, "Dissertatio Theologica de Theophaniis sub Veteri Testamento" (Louvain). ...​
​
... St. Augustine (Sermo vii, de Scripturis, P.G. V) when treating of the burning bush (Exodus 3) says: "... . . . Some maintain that he is called both the Lord and the angel of the Lord because he was Christ, indeed the prophet (Isaiah 9:6, Septuagint Version) clearly styles Christ the 'Angel of great Counsel.'"The saint proceeds to show that such a view is tenable though we must be careful not to fall into Arianism in stating it. ...​
​
... As an instance of how convinced some of the Fathers were in holding ..., we may note Theodoret's words (In Exod.): "The whole passage (Exodus 3) shows that it was God who appeared to him. But (Moses) called Him an angel in order to let us know that it was not God the Father whom he saw — for whose angel could the Father be? — but the Only-begotten Son, the Angel of great Counsel" (cf. Eusebius, Church History I.2.7; St. Irenaeus, Against Heresies 3:6). …" [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; Section "A", subsection "Angels", part "The term "angel" in the Septuagint"] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Angels​
Click to expand...
 
RLT63

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Adventageous said:
I haven't even begun. I have literally thousands of pages of personally studied and written documentation on all subjects in scripture.
Click to expand...
Impressive but most people are not going to read all of that. It is interesting but it’s kind of overkill
 
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Adventageous said:
I haven't even begun. I have literally thousands of pages of personally studied and written documentation on all subjects in scripture.
Click to expand...
Do you have a website? This information would be great as a reference, especially if you can search for it by topic.
 
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Adventageous

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Johann said:
Thought I 'll give you an assisting hand/help, obviously not needed.
You've gone through enough "missiles" and though you won't confess it, words hurt.
I'm not here to hurt you.
Shalom
J.
Click to expand...
You cannot actually help her. Only Truth can help her, but she refuses to engage with Truth (and, No, I do not mean myself).
 
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RLT63 said:
Do you have a website? This information would be great as a reference, especially if you can search for it by topic.
Click to expand...
You might also like Adventist Defense League.

Advent Defense League |

adventdefenseleague.com adventdefenseleague.com

It is run by good brother Edwin M. Cotto, whom I have met in person, while I was at Amazing Facts (2008-2017), and he went through AFCOE, and I have conversed with him upon several occasions.

You might also like BibleLight.net (parallel to now defunct Aloha.net), run by good brother Michael Scheifler:

Michael Scheifler's BIBLE LIGHT HOMEPAGE

www.biblelightinfo.com
 
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RLT63 said:
Impressive but most people are not going to read all of that. It is interesting but it’s kind of overkill
Click to expand...
I know. But I have read it all. Manually typed it all, even in original language where possible, and in research (hundreds of hours, digging through old documents in may languages, Latin, Greek, Hebrew, German, Italian, French, old English, Gothic, etc).

Yes, it is 'overkill', but that means the subject is nailed in a sure place, and any argument must deal with the vast amounts of documented material in order to refute the subjects spoken of.

I always give 'both barrels' and 'press the red button', and launch a strike with tungsten from orbit, to make sure the subject is known in finality. Places like WTS.org, GotQuestions are vapid vanity in comparison.
 
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Adventageous said:
Even your statement on the face of it is incorrect. All writings are inspired, one way or the other, of God, or of the Devil. There is no neutral, or non-inspired writings. You just pile up one error after another there don't cha'? Ever going to correct any of those things?
Click to expand...
The UNINSPIRED teachings/prophecies of EGW which SDA's believe is infallible, on a par with the Scriptures.
J.
 
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Adventageous said:
*snorts*, What an "ass" (Ex. 23:4-5). I went to bed, it was late in American Samoa, like 3 AM. You can keep your "shalom", I have a better one - Jesus Christ (Luk. 2:14; John 14:27; Col. 1:20; 2 Thes. 3:16).

Psa_120:7 I am for peace: but when I speak, they are for war.
Click to expand...
I (am for) peace: but when I speak, they are for war - Hebrew, ’I peace;’ my very nature is peace. So Psa_109:4, ’I prayer.’ But when I speak to recommend peace..... ...they breathe only war. They wrest my words of peace into occasion for war.
JFB
I am for peace,.... Am wholly peace; a man of peace, as Aben Ezra; of a peaceable disposition, devoted to peace; love it, seek and pursue it, as every good man does, who is called to it, and in whose heart it rules: such follow peace with all men, and the things which make for it; and, as much as in them lies, endeavour to live peaceably with all;
but when I speak, they are for war; make a motion for peace, and propose the terms of it, they declare against it, and for war: or when he spoke of the things of God, and of his experience of them, of the word of God, and of the truths of it, and of what he believed, Psa_116:10; and especially when he gave good counsel and advice to them, and reproved them for their sins, they could not bear it; but hated him for it, and proclaimed war against him; and could not behave peaceably to him in any degree, but became his avowed, sworn, and implacable enemies. The Targum is,
"when I prayed;''
either prayed to God, that they did not like; or prayed for peace with them, that they would not grant; but became more imbittered against him.
Gill


אֲֽנִי־שָׁ֖לוֹם וְכִ֣י אֲדַבֵּ֑ר הֵ֜֗מָּה לַמִּלְחָמָֽה:

I am at peace, but when I speak, they [come] to [wage] war.

I am at peace: With them.

but when I speak: peacefully with them, they come to wage war with me.
 
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