I personally have come to the conclusion that you're intentionally playing online mind games. How others chose to respond is their choice.
Australia bans same sex marriage.
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Of course people can be taught or influenced. Everyone walking around today has been taught and influenced by something. What you are saying, however, is that sexuality can be taught. Actually, you're saying more than that. You're saying that some evil scheme is going on within the so-called 'homosexual agenda' to actually 'turn' children gay. If the clips you presented were intended to prove that then they very much missed the mark with regard to 'thinking' people. What human beings are capable of is discriminating against those that are different to themselves. Even I - who should know better - show discrimination, if only on a subliminal level, towards American black culture whenever I hear arrogant rap music which I hate with a passion. Anyway, since people DO discriminate these programs in schools are designed to teach kids from an early age that discrimination is bad.Rex said:
What you are overlooking, Rex - conveniently or otherwise - is that 'The Church' is probably the worst culprit of all when it comes to the indoctrination of the minds of children at an early age. The first school I attended was a Christian School. While I did learn about the goodness of Jesus I also learned that, if I wasn't a good boy, I would be tormented forever in the fires of hell. Wow! Teaching such things to kids surely borders on child abuse! Is THAT kind of teaching or influence on a child a good thing, Rex? This form of indoctrination, of course, is why religious education has either been curbed or eliminated from public schools. And, Christians are appalled. They would, evidently, prefer that children be taught about the reward of heaven and the fires of hell rather than being taught to love, accept and not to discriminate against others which, at the end of the day, is the clear teaching of Jesus.
Yes, its not easy to be tolerant of those who are intolerant. Its a great paradox. :)KCKID said:
By the way, even though it was alluded to a few pages back I'm not sure how many people are actually aware that New Zealand has legalized Gay marriage. A bill for the legislation was passed by the New Zealand House of Representatives on April 17 and will become effective on August 19. Some say that April 17 was a sad day for New Zealand while others are revelling in victory.
No matter WHAT one's thoughts are on this topic, gay marriage is with us and one must either accept/tolerate it or be forever at odds. The latter alternative is not wise long term.
No matter WHAT one's thoughts are on this topic, gay marriage is with us and one must either accept/tolerate it or be forever at odds. The latter alternative is not wise long term.
Why are we being forced to accept it?? I don't accept abortion, and no one is forcing me to accept abortion. I can still call abortion wrong and no one is going to sue me in court for it. So, if people don't accept gay marriage, are they going to be sued in court??KCKID said:
What do you mean 'not accepting gay marriage'? If it's legal then you can do nothing about it and nor should you want to. How do you not accept gay marriage anyway? ...do you picket or protest outside their homes and make life miserable for them? If you don't agree with what someone else does that is 1. not doing any harm to you, and 2. is none of your business, then you remain silent. And, if remaining silent causes you distress in some way then it suggests that YOU have a problem that might require therapy.Selene said:
Abortion is also legal on my island, but I don't accept. I belong to an organization that works to reduce the number of abortions through legislation.KCKID said:
Furthermore, when one senator on my island proposed a bill on gay marriage a few years ago, we collected petitions from people who were against it. Our churches prayed against gay marriage every day, and even preached against it. Because of our efforts in collecting those petitions, the bill on gay marriage has been defeated so far. The bill on gay marriage never reached the floor.
That you are equating gay marriage to abortion beggars belief, i.e. it's as close to disbelief as it gets. This makes your viewpoint on this topic suspect from the get-go, Selene. It's difficult to take you seriously and it's therefore perhaps not appropriate to be discussing this topic with you at all. When 'churches' pray and petition against the notion of two people who love one another joining together in a committed relationship then that church has lost the plot. Besides, this is not a religious issue anyway!Selene said:
Oh, by the way, have you never considered that God is not listening to these prayers of Christians to prevent gay marriage or, alternatively, He DOES listen and obviously approves ...? How do you answer this?
Why are you surprised especially when I have already posted under this thread that homosexuality is a sin. Both abortion and homosexuality are sins. One is murder and the other is sexual immorality.KCKID said:
Are you saying that we don't have a right to petition against homosexuality. Do you not know that petition is a human right under the U.S. Constitution (and Organic Act where I am from)?? Do you also want to take away our right to petition?? It's bad enough that you already want to FORCE us to accept homosexuality as normal.
Yes, all our Churches prayed to God not to allow same sex marriage on our island. And that's actually what got the gay activist all worked up. They were offended by our prayers. Do we not have a right to offer those prayers in our Churches?? In fact, the Senator who proposed that same sex bill was so offended by our prayers in the Church that he wanted us to stop those prayers. Imagine that......he's already dictating what we should do in our Church? He is FORCING the Church to accept gay marriage despite the fact that we have always stood against it.
So a church shouldn't pray that God's will be done?
They shouldn't pray that sin not become the law of the land?
God aside, that is their Constitutional right to pray and work to ensure a law does or doesn't come into being - just like everyone else.
If your churches prayed that God allow same sex marraige, then the problem isn't Selene or what she believes.
The problem is the fact that your church is praying for God to sanction and bless an activity that he has already told us He considers and abomination.
Plank first, then splinter.
They shouldn't pray that sin not become the law of the land?
God aside, that is their Constitutional right to pray and work to ensure a law does or doesn't come into being - just like everyone else.
If your churches prayed that God allow same sex marraige, then the problem isn't Selene or what she believes.
The problem is the fact that your church is praying for God to sanction and bless an activity that he has already told us He considers and abomination.
Plank first, then splinter.
Yes this is good, and most pro-choice people agree that abortion should be the last option, and nearly always is. At the core of the debate is who has the legal right to make the final decision. So far legally, at least in the US, the legal decision has been that women get to make the final choice about their lives\bodies, and I am sure most women make the decision very carefully\rarely. Its extremely unlikely the final choice will be taken away from women and handed over to the government (as it still is in a few countries).Selene said:
Foreigner said:
God's Will will ultimately prevail.
1. Two adults who desire to marry has nothing to do with God. God doesn't make our decisions for us. WE do.Foreigner said:
2. Why would two adults who desire to marry and, indeed, DO marry be a sin? Even if it is 'a sin', it's between the individuals and God ...NOT interfering Christians. Petitioning against a human right is immoral whether it's a Constitutional right or not. We all know how one's Constitutional right and evil can combine when we look at the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church. Which raises a serious question for me. What is the difference between the Fred Phelps clan and yourself? The only difference I can see is between the overt and the covert.
3. That anyone feels that they want to interfere in the joining together of two adults whose only 'crime' is that they love one another is quite worrysome. And, the 'problem' lies with the one who objects, not the one/s who are being objected against.
4. That remark doesn't make sense.
Whether one regards it to be a religious issue or not, I would remind people that there are many Christian Churches that are 'fine' with gay marriage. Would such churches be regarded as 'unChristian'?
Many\most of the Christian Churches in my area are accepting of LGBT and do not object to gay marriage. Where I live (Washington State) tends to be very progressive and it recently legalized SSM as voted by a majority of the people in the state. Thus, churches of all religions in the state tend to be progressive as well. There are fundamentalist churches which are very active in speaking out against SSM, they also tend to be very conservative\restrictive on personal conduct.KCKID said:
It's only a matter of time - we ALL know this - before same-sex marriage becomes pretty much 'the norm' with the majority of people. The next generation will likely not even question it except, perhaps, for those who inherit or loyally support their parents' homophobia. Since that WILL be the case there seems little sense in the fundamentalist churches speaking out against what is already accepted by the majority. There has to come a point in time when doing so (speaking out against SSM) will be seen as foolish and totally pointless by the majority.JackSafari said:
I would ask the anti-SSM folks on this forum ...when will you have the wisdom to concede to the notion that SSM WILL become 'the norm'?
:huh: Once more you clearly provide evidence that you do not grasp Christianity.KCKID said:
Then you contradict yourself... :unsure:KCKID said:
We finally agree on something. Amen!! and to quote a scripture on God's will....Ezekiel 3:18 When I say to a wicked person, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn them or speak out to dissuade them from their evil ways in order to save their life, that wicked person will die for their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood.JackSafari said:
Correction, I don't grasp YOUR version of Christianity. And, I'm fine with that. An increasing number of churches feel the same way.KingJ said:
Whether it's any business of God that two people fall in love and wish to marry remains to be seen; however, as said, that will be between them and God and not between them and YOU. In other words, stop trying to speak for God because, quite frankly, I - and probably they - am not interested . . .
I've always imagined that Jesus reached total enlightenment just like Buddha and several other spiritual masters that somehow were able to transcend the physical and become one with God. Got to wonder if there are many more out there, but their mission does not include becoming historically famous, so they go about doing God's work hidden from notoriety. Maybe just a simple nurse helping people completely unknown except for those who are helped. :)KingJ said:
I will concede when I decide it's time to give up my calling to stand in the hedge and prevent God's judgement. But the day will come, of which you speak, in which God's judgement will fall, no matter who intercedes for the people.KCKID said:
"I find you guilty of loving one another ...to the fires of hell with you!" God.ZebraHug said:
ZebraHug said:
and that day is coming sooner rather then later :) . Matt 24:22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.
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