Baptism by water

[DPMartin]

Baptism by water, is merely the repentance as in renewal, or turning over a new leaf, restart, so on and so forth, and here are the reasons why its that and only that:


When God first came into His creation He chose the waters the face of the waters. So in His wisdom of making creation accommodate the presence of life God starts at the face of the waters. Now when the days of Noah come around what does the Lord God say:


Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.


So the Almighty baptizes the whole planet. The Israelis are considered baptized when they crossed the red sea on dry land. Baptism by water is a outward sign or move to repentance and renewal, and not salvation, though repentance is necessary for the coming into salvation but repentance is not baptism by water. Repentance is what it is, and baptism by water is a proclamation by the baptized of repentance.

 

[Mungo]

Baptism by water, is merely the repentance as in renewal, or turning over a new leaf, restart, so on and so forth, and here are the reasons why its that and only that:


When God first came into His creation He chose the waters the face of the waters. So in His wisdom of making creation accommodate the presence of life God starts at the face of the waters. Now when the days of Noah come around what does the Lord God say:


Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.


So the Almighty baptizes the whole planet. The Israelis are considered baptized when they crossed the red sea on dry land. Baptism by water is a outward sign or move to repentance and renewal, and not salvation, though repentance is necessary for the coming into salvation but repentance is not baptism by water. Repentance is what it is, and baptism by water is a proclamation by the baptized of repentance.

Could you please define what you mean by salvation in this context.

 

[DPMartin]

Could you please define what you mean by salvation in this context.

if you don't know by now with over 2800 posts there's no real value in going into it repentance isn't salvation nor is salvation repentance.

 

[Mungo]

if you don't know by now with over 2800 posts there's no real value in going into it repentance isn't salvation nor is salvation repentance.

I asked what YOU mean by salvation.
Don't you know?

If not then this is a pointless thread.

 

[DPMartin]

I asked what YOU mean by salvation.
Don't you know?

If not then this is a pointless thread.

pointless for you maybe, and what I mean isn't important is it? why would you be so concerned with what I think? what's up with one's opinion garbage anyway? the only thing that matters is what the Lord has to say about a thing like salvation. and that is already written down so you can read it. therefore what are you asking me for? go read it.

 

[Mungo]

pointless for you maybe, and what I mean isn't important is it? why would you be so concerned with what I think? what's up with one's opinion garbage anyway? the only thing that matters is what the Lord has to say about a thing like salvation. and that is already written down so you can read it. therefore what are you asking me for? go read it.

It matters because you used the word in your OP. Therefore it is important what you think the word means.

 

[user]

repentance isn't salvation nor is salvation repentance.

Would YOU agree that repentance is required for salvation?

Luke 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[DPMartin]

Would YOU agree that repentance is required for salvation?

Luke 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

repent yes, repenting is required to change any direction taken, or any belief or line of thinking.

but repenting is a continued act in the walk, such as a penitent walk. its been said in Jewish culture that a penitent soul brings blessing down from Heaven. that said, baptism by water is an outward proclamation of repentance, but the act of baptism by water is not required because baptism by water isn't baptism of the Holy Spirt or by fire as said by John the Baptist. of which is required for salvation in Christ. one can repent unto the Lord Jesus Christ and be baptized by the Holy Spirit, with no water involved.

 

[DPMartin]

It matters because you used the word in your OP. Therefore it is important what you think the word means.

I just told you in so many words didn't I? see what Jesus says it is.

 

[user]

the act of baptism by water is not required because baptism by water isn't baptism of the Holy Spirt or by fire as said by John the Baptist. of which is required for salvation in Christ. one can repent unto the Lord Jesus Christ and be baptized by the Holy Spirit, with no water involved.

That's not what the Word of God says.


Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[DPMartin]

That's not what the Word of God says.


Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

oh gee lets read that in context:

Mar 16:14　 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.　
Mar 16:15　 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.　
Mar 16:16　 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.　
Mar 16:17　 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;　
Mar 16:18　 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.　
Mar 16:19　 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.　
Mar 16:20　 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

that is when Jesus ascended hence believe and baptize, no mention of water here, but one must be baptized in the Holy Spirit to be saved.　


and again lets read the next in context:


Joh 3:1　 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:　
Joh 3:2　 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.　
Joh 3:3　 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.　
Joh 3:4　 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?　
Joh 3:5　 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.　
Joh 3:6　 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.　
Joh 3:7　 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.　

so no mention of baptizing in water, but when one is born into the world in the flesh what is one born of? what does a woman loss when her child is about to be born? Jesus also repeats the concept but uses flesh instead to explain His previous statement.


and as far as Peter's statement in acts, no one is saying one can't be baptized in water to declare their repentance.

 

[Marymog]

Baptism by water, is merely the repentance as in renewal, or turning over a new leaf, restart, so on and so forth, and here are the reasons why its that and only that:


When God first came into His creation He chose the waters the face of the waters. So in His wisdom of making creation accommodate the presence of life God starts at the face of the waters. Now when the days of Noah come around what does the Lord God say:


Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.


So the Almighty baptizes the whole planet. The Israelis are considered baptized when they crossed the red sea on dry land. Baptism by water is a outward sign or move to repentance and renewal, and not salvation, though repentance is necessary for the coming into salvation but repentance is not baptism by water. Repentance is what it is, and baptism by water is a proclamation by the baptized of repentance.

You say "repentance is not baptism by water".

Scripture says "repent AND be baptized" and "baptize all". Scripture makes them equal (must do both) and necessary. You don't.

It seems you are at odds with Scripture.

 

[DPMartin]

You say "repentance is not baptism by water".

Scripture says "repent AND be baptized" and "baptize all". Scripture makes them equal (must do both) and necessary. You don't.

It seems you are at odds with Scripture.

baptism by water is the declaration of repentance, when John the Baptist was baptizing no souls where being saved. and surly one can repent without baptism by water. salvation didn't come until actually the Pentecost (Holy Spirit) though all that Christ did was required for that to happen, and we know salvation is in and through Christ, in the name of Jesus Christ.

 

[user]

so no mention of baptizing in water, but when one is born into the world in the flesh what is one born of? what does a woman loss when her child is about to be born? Jesus also repeats the concept but uses flesh instead to explain His previous statement.

Such a theory would suggest that anyone delivered by cesarean section (no water in that procedure) would be ineligible to enter the kingdom of God!

If birth of water means natural birth, then Jesus told Nicodemus to do something he had already done. It seems unnecessary to say we must be born into this world since everyone obviously has been.


Baptism is the only significant use of water in the New Testament church, so if we interpret water literally it indicates water baptism. The Early Church commonly used water to mean water baptism.

For example, Peter asked with respect to Cornelius and his household, “Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized?” (Acts 10:47).

John himself later used water in a literal way when he spoke of Spirit, water, and blood agreeing in the one purpose of salvation (1 John 5:8).

 

[Marymog]

baptism by water is the declaration of repentance, when John the Baptist was baptizing no souls where being saved. and surly one can repent without baptism by water. salvation didn't come until actually the Pentecost (Holy Spirit) though all that Christ did was required for that to happen, and we know salvation is in and through Christ, in the name of Jesus Christ.

Yup, when John the Baptist was baptizing no souls where being saved. When you read 1 Peter 3:21 you can see all that changed after Jesus was baptized AND he said one is born again thru water and spirit!!!

Yup, one can repent without water baptism. But when one starts believing one is to be baptized...Just like scripture says. Soooooo what must we do to be saved?” Paul and Silas answered you DPMartin:“Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved—you and your household” (Acts 16:31). What happens in verse 33 DPMartin???? It says that “immediately they were baptized.” Baptism therefore seems to be the way one makes the faith commitment. Two other clear accounts are Philip’s encounter with the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8, and Peter’s immediate baptism of Cornelius and his household in Acts 10. The pattern in Acts is consistent: preaching, repentance of the hearers, belief in Christ, and immediate baptism.

Soooo do you follow ALL of Scripture or just the cherry picked passages that fit your churches theory? Why do you stay in a church that doesn't teach you all of Scripture???

 

[DPMartin]

Such a theory would suggest that anyone delivered by cesarean section (no water in that procedure) would be ineligible to enter the kingdom of God!

If birth of water means natural birth, then Jesus told Nicodemus to do something he had already done. It seems unnecessary to say we must be born into this world since everyone obviously has been.


Baptism is the only significant use of water in the New Testament church, so if we interpret water literally it indicates water baptism. The Early Church commonly used water to mean water baptism.

For example, Peter asked with respect to Cornelius and his household, “Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized?” (Acts 10:47).

John himself later used water in a literal way when he spoke of Spirit, water, and blood agreeing in the one purpose of salvation (1 John 5:8).

give it a brake one could say water of the birth water of the flesh of which the flesh is mostly made of so on and so forth. thing is the Lord explains what He said with

Joh 3:6　 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.　


He could have said that which is of matter is matter and that which is of Spirit is Spirit and it would still be true. hence water being matter and spirit being spirit.

water doesn't save you nor is it repentance, the heart mind and soul repents and the Holy Spirit (Presence of God) saves.

 

[DPMartin]

Yup, when John the Baptist was baptizing no souls where being saved. When you read 1 Peter 3:21 you can see all that changed after Jesus was baptized AND he said one is born again thru water and spirit!!!

Yup, one can repent without water baptism. But when one starts believing one is to be baptized...Just like scripture says. Soooooo what must we do to be saved?” Paul and Silas answered you DPMartin:“Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved—you and your household” (Acts 16:31). What happens in verse 33 DPMartin???? It says that “immediately they were baptized.” Baptism therefore seems to be the way one makes the faith commitment. Two other clear accounts are Philip’s encounter with the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8, and Peter’s immediate baptism of Cornelius and his household in Acts 10. The pattern in Acts is consistent: preaching, repentance of the hearers, belief in Christ, and immediate baptism.

Soooo do you follow ALL of Scripture or just the cherry picked passages that fit your churches theory? Why do you stay in a church that doesn't teach you all of Scripture???

I don't know do you sprinkle or submerge, when you baptize. do you baptize an infant that hasn't got the where withal to repent? how many souls you know that where baptize in and or by water and most assuredly they are not saved? could that be countless? where is the reality in your thinking?


one can repent unto the Lord Jesus Christ, be baptized in the Holy Spirit and be no where near water. that is a fact.

the insistence on baptism by water is where the darkness is, not the baptism by water the insistence there of. the physical act means nothing without the soul's participation of which water isn't required for the soul's participation

 

[Marymog]

I don't know do you sprinkle or submerge, when you baptize. do you baptize an infant that hasn't got the where withal to repent? how many souls you know that where baptize in and or by water and most assuredly they are not saved? could that be countless? where is the reality in your thinking?


one can repent unto the Lord Jesus Christ, be baptized in the Holy Spirit and be no where near water. that is a fact.

the insistence on baptism by water is where the darkness is, not the baptism by water the insistence there of. the physical act means nothing without the soul's participation of which water isn't required for the soul's participation

Historically we know via a 1st century Christian writing, the Didache (written while the Apostles were still alive, before some NT books), that NT Christians practiced baptizing in running water (a river) but if they had no running water then they would baptize in some other water. But if they had neither then they would pour water on the head three times.

Scripture compares circumcision to baptism and infants had no "where withal{sic} to repent" or decide if they were joining the Jewish covenant with God. Their parents decided! Just like Christians do today, 2,000 years later. Historically we know that Christians have baptized infants in place of circumcision. Historical Christian documents show Church leaders arguing if they should be baptized before the 8th day or not. The teaching that infants should not be baptized was started by men about 500 years ago.

Where is the Scripture, historical precedence, logic or reality that supports your thinking? The reality that I accept the 2,000 year teaching/practice of Christianity that is backed up by Scripture! You don't. You accept the 500 year Protestant teaching and some of your Protestant brethren don't even agree with you!

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

I don't know do you sprinkle or submerge, when you baptize. do you baptize an infant that hasn't got the where withal to repent? how many souls you know that where baptize in and or by water and most assuredly they are not saved? could that be countless? where is the reality in your thinking?


one can repent unto the Lord Jesus Christ, be baptized in the Holy Spirit and be no where near water. that is a fact.

the insistence on baptism by water is where the darkness is, not the baptism by water the insistence there of. the physical act means nothing without the soul's participation of which water isn't required for the soul's participation

Are you going at least TRY to answer my question: Do you follow ALL of Scripture or just the cherry picked passages that fit your churches theory?

If not just let me know and I will move on....

 

[user]

give it a brake one could say water of the birth water of the flesh of which the flesh is mostly made of so on and so forth. thing is the Lord explains what He said with

Joh 3:6　 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.　


He could have said that which is of matter is matter and that which is of Spirit is Spirit and it would still be true. hence water being matter and spirit being spirit.

water doesn't save you nor is it repentance, the heart mind and soul repents and the Holy Spirit (Presence of God) saves.

Why in the name of good sense would Jesus tell Nicodemus to do something that EVERYONE has already done - be born of a mother's womb.

OK let's try this YOUR way...

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water amniotic fluid and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Peter asked with respect to Cornelius and his household, “Can any man forbid water amniotic fluid that these should not be baptized?” (Acts 10:47).

John himself later used water in a literal way when he spoke of Spirit, water amniotic fluid, and blood agreeing in the one purpose of salvation (1 John 5:8).

Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water amniotic fluid; what doth hinder me to be baptized?


Now this one might almost fit your flawed theology, let's give this a try...

Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water amniotic fluid: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Nope! That's not it either ... sorry.