You have admitted that we can be saved without water baptism. What's your point?
Water baptism is a work. It cannot save. Repentance and faith in Jesus is what saves us.
Baptism for Salvation
- Thread starter religusnut
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Hi religusnut!
If you mean by water...the bible says that many were being filled with the Holy Spirit before they were water baptized.[Acts 10:44-48]
The Holy Spirit is the seal of our redemption that guarantees eternal life [Acts 11:15-17] a promise that guarantees our inheritance [Ephesians 1:13] and redemption [Ephesians 4:30]. The Holy Spirit is a good indicator that one is saved.
Blessings!!!
Guarantees is that word biblical. like does it say that word ?
Hi Mr R!
2 Corinthians 1(NKJV)
21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, 22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
2 Corinthians 5 (NKJV)
4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
Ephesians 1(NKJV)
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
The KJV describes the word in these verses as "earnest" meaning pledge.
G728 - arrhabōn pledge
Of Hebrew origin [H6162]; a pledge, that is, part of the purchase money or property given in advance as security for the rest: - earnest.
H6162 ‛ărâbôn - pledge
From H6148 (in the sense of exchange); a pawn (given as security): - pledge.
H6148 ‛ârab - A primitive root; to braid, that is, intermix; technically to traffic (as if by barter); also to give or be security (as a kind of exchange): - engage, (inter-) meddle (with), mingle (self), mortgage, occupy, give pledges, be (-come, put in) surety, undertake.
Quoted from - Expository dictionary of Bible words: word studies for key English Bible, By Stephen D. Renn page 456
Blessings!!!
In the NKJV it does...
2 Corinthians 1(NKJV)
21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, 22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
2 Corinthians 5 (NKJV)
4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
Ephesians 1(NKJV)
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
The KJV describes the word in these verses as "earnest" meaning pledge.
G728 - arrhabōn pledge
Of Hebrew origin [H6162]; a pledge, that is, part of the purchase money or property given in advance as security for the rest: - earnest.
H6162 ‛ărâbôn - pledge
From H6148 (in the sense of exchange); a pawn (given as security): - pledge.
H6148 ‛ârab - A primitive root; to braid, that is, intermix; technically to traffic (as if by barter); also to give or be security (as a kind of exchange): - engage, (inter-) meddle (with), mingle (self), mortgage, occupy, give pledges, be (-come, put in) surety, undertake.
Quoted from - Expository dictionary of Bible words: word studies for key English Bible, By Stephen D. Renn page 456
Blessings!!!
There's a lot of evidence to the contrary. However, the holy Spirit does work in an individual prior to regeneration. So, that need not be a reason to hold that position. John said,
John 1:5-9 ( KJV )
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Christ gives understanding to everyone so that they can come to Him. Jesus said if He was lifted up He would draw all men.
John 12:32 ( KJV )
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
So, there is definintely activity from the HS prior to one believing. One doesn't need to be regenerated for the HS to work on them.
The problem with that view is that it has one indwelt by the Spirit who has not been cleasned of sins.
My point is that you have dismissed a tremendous amount of evidence. How does a person seek the truth and yet idsmiss evidence?
No matter what the aposlte said, right?
The guarantee just means that God will uphold his part. It doesn't say anything about our part.
Where some of my understanding is coming from.
Mark 16:16 [sup]16[/sup] Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
In Romans 10:9 [sup]9[/sup] If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
There are two parts to each statement, one is inner and one is outer.
I still have a lot to learn about Greek tenses. I have heard that there is something called the "perfect tense" which we don't have in our English language, referring to something at one point and then continual.
1Jo 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
God dwells in the person that confesses Jesus is the Son of God. God dwells in the person. It is only by the spirit can we perceive things of the spirit, it is only what we do in obedience to the Spirit that God finds pleasing.
Romans 10:10 [sup]10[/sup] For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
It begins in our heart, and it is by our trusting God raised Jesus from the dead, and it is by that we are declared righteous; Without confession, there is no salvation. Without confession there is no agreement; the same has been related to baptism. Our faith is made complete by our declaration of what occured on the inside, and if what occurs on the outside does not agree, there was no true work on the inside to begin with. The outside of a jar can be washed again and again but it will still be considered dirty unless the inside is clean. It is on the inside where the preservation of life is stored.
[sup]James 2:14[/sup] What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?
For the promise and provision for righteousness was already given, and it is by both the inner working and outer working that complete that faithful dependency on His word; just as the promise was given to Abraham before he laid Isaac on the altar, but he was considered righteous in his obedience to God. For it is in obedience that we are identified with Christ and his work on the cross, just as Abraham in his obedience we can identify with God's plan for salvation, and how Mosed in obedience became a type of Christ in Himself; we all have the provision to do the same.
The dependency on God to accomplish the inner work is the same dependency we will have on God for the outer work. It is our witness that is at stake, and God's glory is at stake. Depending on what we say and do, we will approve or disprove anything we "believe". Our actions are an outpouring of the heart, and we see in part who is faithful now, and we are each tested according to the faith God provides each of us to work in, and that will look different in each of our lives due to the work we have each been distributed to bring God glory while on earth. What we have left is how we identify each other as brothers and sisters and ourselves in Christ. My inner and outer parts agree to my identification in Christ, and it is my hope that is secured in His promised salvation.
Hi Martin,
I pretty much agree. I would say, just for clarification that the Greek "Perfect Tense" is close to what you said. It is a past action, with results continuing to the present. That is the present at the time the statement was made. There is nothing in the "Perfect tense" that means the action is guaranteed to continue into the future (After the statement was made).
I am a catholic I was baptize as a baby in the name of the father the son and the Holy Spirit; I received the hope helmet of salvation on my head as a baby.
When I was older I met Jesus on the road of life, I was a believer, as a believer in Christ I kept all the 10 commandments and all the teaches of Jesus Christ
And I turn away from sin, do not sin then and only then I was born again
I became dead to sin, my old self just fell away and I became a new creation, every thing I ever wanted to do in life I no longer wanted, god has other plans for me
Now I live for god,
if you are a beliver you will keep all of gods laws
Similar threads
