Baptism in Jesus' Name (poll).

[amadeus]

Is this the song @6min 10sec ...

Thank you for the effort, but no... that is not the one. I received the Holy Ghost in 1976 in El Sobrante, CA and at that time the song was sung regularly in assemblies around the SF Bay Area. If you have any oldsters around who remember those times, probably they will know that song. I can still sing those words I quoted, but I don't remember the rest... It would come back I am sure if I heard it. I have a friend who works here as the maintenance man. He is very young, but he attends a UPC assembly here in Oklahoma and may know someone who has been around that long. I used to visit them once in a while but everything shut down these last few months... I haven't really been active in the UPC since leaving Wyoming in 1987.

 

[JRM]

To those who deny the doctrine of the Trinity, I have two questions.

Question #1

2 Corinthians 13:14 reads:
"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen"

Is the above verse Scripture?

Question #2

Matthew 28:19-20
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the FATHER, and of the SON, and of the HOLY GHOST:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you..."

Are the above verses Scripture?

If yes, why then do you not observe/obey them?

If not, then you are in violation of Revelation 22:19.

BTW, the Book of Revelation does not stand alone apart from the Bible as some people teach!

To God Be The Glory
:

 

[justbyfaith]

To those who deny the doctrine of the Trinity, I have two questions.

Question #1

2 Corinthians 13:14 reads:
"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen"

Is the above verse Scripture?

Question #2

Matthew 28:19-20
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the FATHER, and of the SON, and of the HOLY GHOST:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you..."

Are the above verses Scripture?

If yes, why then do you not observe/obey them?

If not, then you are in violation of Revelation 22:19.

BTW, the Book of Revelation does not stand alone apart from the Bible as some people teach!

To God Be The Glory
:

The Greek word for "and" in both of the scriptures in question, is "kai" which can be translated "even".

 

[JRM]

The Greek word for "and" in both of the scriptures in question, is "kai" which can be translated "even".

However, the word "and" translated in Greek is :even" The word is translated only 108 times in both said verses as compared to "and" is translated more than 8100 times.

Which do you think is the more reliable source? The Bible or the concordance/dictionary!?

To God Be The Glory

 

[justbyfaith]

However, the word "and" translated in Greek is :even" The word is translated only 108 times in both said verses as compared to "and" is translated more than 8100 times.

Which do you think is the more reliable source? The Bible or the concordance/dictionary!?

To God Be The Glory

All I'm saying is that the members of the Trinity do not have to be separate according to the verses that you brought up.

 

[JRM]

All I'm saying is that the members of the Trinity do not have to be separate according to the verses that you brought up.

And (pardon the pun), all I'm saying is that the conjunction word "and" is used more than 8100 times than the word "even" which were used only 108 times.

Don't forget both writers were under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit when they penned those verses.

To God Be The Glory

 

[justbyfaith]

And (pardon the pun), all I'm saying is that the conjunction word "and" is used more than 8100 times than the word "even" which were used only 108 times.

Don't forget both writers were under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit when they penned those verses.

To God Be The Glory

This may be off-subject, but: I'm not sure what you mean by "both writers". The Bible was penned by 40 different authors.

 

[justbyfaith]

Also, in the original language in which the holy scriptures were first penned, the Greek word "kai" is what was used, which can be translated as "and" or "even" in the English that it is translated into. And that therefore, rendering it as "even" understanding what the original Greek word was, is not out of the question.

 

[JRM]

This may be off-subject, but: I'm not sure what you mean by "both writers". The Bible was penned by 40 different authors.

Firstly, I merely responded to post #23.

Secondly, I was only speaking of the writers about the Scripture verses I have offered.

Thirdly, anytime we want to change the meaning of a word the whole intention of that verse is altered.

One of the reason I like the KJV Bible is that the printer is warning the English reader that all italicized words in the KJV are not in the original manuscripts.

To God Be The Glory

 

[justbyfaith]

Firstly, I merely responded to post #23.

Secondly, I was only speaking of the writers about the Scripture verses I have offered.

Thirdly, anytime we want to change the meaning of a word the whole intention of that verse is altered.

One of the reason I like the KJV Bible is that the printer is warning the English reader that all italicized words in the KJV are not in the original manuscripts.

To God Be The Glory

While I do not object to the translation of "kai" as "and" in many of the verses where it is located, I am also aware that this is the Greek word for "and" and that it is not against the will of the Lord for me to understand it as saying "even".

Just as we can gain added insight by looking into the Greek verb tense of "cleanseth" in 1 John 1:7, or the usage of different words for "love" when Jesus restored Peter in John 21, so it is useful to know what the original Greek word is that is used.

If you read John 17:3 without the understanding that the word "and" there is translated "even" you may come to the conclusion that Jesus isn't the one true God.

 

[JRM]

While I do not object to the translation of "kai" as "and" in many of the verses where it is located, I am also aware that this is the Greek word for "and" and that it is not against the will of the Lord for me to understand it as saying "even".

Yes It Does Matter! Especially when it concerns Revelation 22:18-19.

To God Be The Glory

 

[justbyfaith]

It is not adding to the word and neither is it taking away from the word to translate "kai" as "even".

 

[justbyfaith]

If you read John 17:3 without the understanding that the word "and" there is translated "even" you may come to the conclusion that Jesus isn't the one true God.

 

[Nancy]

I have never thought of baptism as providing "assurance". In what way? Even if it does, that's a by-product of its true purpose.

Agreed. To me, baptism is a confession of faith before others and that is all IMHO. And, the water itself is symbolic of washing away sins. So...if it's all together something else then, I've not heard or read of it.

 

[justbyfaith]

In Mark 16:16, the one who believes and is baptized "shall be" saved;

Whereas in John 3:16, the one who merely believes "should not" perish.

To me this says that if we get baptized properly, we can have absolute assurance of salvation.

Merely believing is iffy.

 

[JRM]

@justbyfaith,

After much avoidance, can you now please answer Post @22?

Your answer in Post @23 is insufficient and off subject.

To God Be The Glory

 

[justbyfaith]

@justbyfaith,

After much avoidance, can you now please answer Post @22?

Your answer in Post @23 is insufficient and off subject.

To God Be The Glory

No; I believe that my answer in post #23 answers your objection sufficiently. Apply what I said about the Greek word for "and" to the verses that you quoted in post #22; and how do those verses then state that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are separate Persons?

 

[JRM]

No; I believe that my answer in post #23 answers your objection sufficiently. Apply what I said about the Greek word for "and" to the verses that you quoted in post #22; and how do those verses then state that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are separate Persons?

My questions were about 2 Corinthians 13:14 and Matthew 28:19-20 if they are Scripture, and NOT about the meaning of the word "and"?

To God Be The Glory

 

[justbyfaith]

My questions were about 2 Corinthians 13:14 and Matthew 28:19-20 if they are Scripture, and NOT about the meaning of the word "and"?

To God Be The Glory

Of course they are scripture.

If you translate the word "and" within them as "even" there is no contradiction with the idea that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost are one and the same Spirit, one and the same Lord, and one and the same God (1 Corinthians 12:4-6, Ephesians 4:4-6).

 

[JRM]

Of course they are scripture.

If you translate the word "and" within them as "even" there is no contradiction with the idea that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost are one and the same Spirit, one and the same Lord, and one and the same God (1 Corinthians 12:4-6, Ephesians 4:4-6).

Hallelujah! Debate is over! God although He is one subsists in three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Consider Exodus 6:3:
"And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty but by name JEHOVAH (Yahweh) was I not known to them."

Deuteronomy 6:4:
"Hear , O Israel: the LORD our God (Elohim, plural Hebrew word as in Ge.1:1) is one LORD (JEHOVAH)."

To God Be The Glory