Being 'Born Again'

[Carl Emerson]

If ever a verse was taken out of context,...

If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: (2 Timothy 2:12)

What does abiding have to do with performance?

I don't think the New Covenant model has angels dragging hardened backsliders into Heaven kicking and screaming, either.

What is the "OSAS issue?"

Denying and losing faith are quite different.

True believers can lose faith for a period by He will refresh them in His Love.

Denying is a different matter and the ability to renounce the Faith is taken away from the true believer, when the indwelling of the Holy spirit comes and the Spirit of the Fear of the Lord prevents us from so doing.

One must keep in mind that letters to the churches were read to wheat and tares alike so warnings about falling away were meant for the ears of those who were not really in the faith but benefitted from the fellowship with its blessings...

 

[BarneyFife]

Denying and losing faith are quite different.

True believers can lose faith for a period by He will refresh them in His Love.

Denying is a different matter and the ability to renounce the Faith is taken away from the true believer, when the indwelling of the Holy spirit comes and the Spirit of the Fear of the Lord prevents us from so doing.

One must keep in mind that letters to the churches were read to wheat and tares alike so warnings about falling away were meant for the ears of those who were not really in the faith but benefitted from the fellowship with its blessings...

Can you say all of that stuff with Scripture?

Because it doesn't sound right at all.

The Holy Spirit takes away free will, or are you a 5-point man, as well?

True believers can lose faith and He can refresh them even if they don't want Him to?

How is losing faith "quite different" than denying Christ as taught in Scripture?

Didn't Peter deny Christ 3 times. Denying is the worse offense here, right?

Spirit of the Fear of the Lord? What's that? Can't find it in the Bible.

How do you know the warnings were only for the unconverted in the church?

How can unconverted people fall away from something they were never close to?

Is falling away from something different than denying Christ or losing faith?

A child is supposed to be able to understand all of this stuff, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Yes I can reference scripture on all points.

I didn't say the Holy Spirit takes away your free will - but any truely born again believer prays "thy will be done" and in so doing gives permission for God to override their desires. This amounts to a surrender of the individual will to His better purpose.

Scripture clearly says that in the case of losing faith He is faithful because it is in His nature to keep His word and be there for them.

Loosing faith is sliding into unbelief but this is not the unforgivable sin.

Folks go through desert seasons when all seems lost but He meets them and refreshes their faith because He is faithful. That is entirely different than renouncing Christ which the Holy Spirit prevents them from doing - Jer 32:40.

Peter denied Christ before the Holy Spirit was given.

You will find the Spirit of the Fear of the Lord listed in Isaiah 11. The Seven Spirits of God are also referenced in Revelation.

Unconverted folks in the Church are benefitting from the presence of God and the sanctification Paul mentions when the unbeliever in Marriage being sanctified by the believer - same principle applies...
1 Corinthians 7:14
"For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy."

Yes if you can receive the truth as a child you wont have any issue understanding it.