Being Faithful to God

[Episkopos]

How many realize that arguing how saved one is is the same as arguing how humble one is? Do we not lose what we are trying so hard to identify with in that effort? Do we realize that by trying to save our life we lose it?

It is by losing our lives that we find them.

Jesus has made religious ideology to work against itself. Christianity is an anti-religion. if there were more teachers that should be teachers then more people would understand this. Religion is building the wrong thing..and unless it comes down at the present time...judgment will see it destroyed.

better to repent now and build what lasts and what is able to pass the test of fire.

 

[marks]

Romans 8:15-16 LITV
For you did not receive a spirit of slavery again to fear, but you received a Spirit of adoption by which we cry, Abba! Father! The Spirit Himself witnesses with our spirit that we are children of God.

1 John 3:24 LITV
And the one keeping His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit which He gave to us.

1 John 4:13 LITV
By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because of His Spirit He has given to us.

These are direct statements that specifically address our ability to know that we are children of God, that we have relationship with Him. The Spirit testifies with our spirit, and we know we are in Him, and He in us, by His Spirit given to us.

Those who do not have the Spirit in them may have any number of ideas about themselves and God and life, and there is no expectation that those won't be deceived. Truth is in Christ.

But those in whom Christ dwells will know Him. Only, as in all, according to your faith. For many their faith has been shipwrecked by perverted teaching. For many they've come to think that the daily struggle trying to limit their sins, trying to make up for them afterward, hoping they can be right with God still, that this is the intended life of the Christian.

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Knowing that we know God, knowing that He will complete His work in us, knowing that the victory over sin and death is assured, knowing these things, this is the faith that gives us the victory now. His power is over all, so His power is over me today. This is the trust to walk in His Spirit, to not do the fleshy works, and to live in love, in joy, in peace, all the Spirit's fruit as we live Spirit controlled,

Because we AREN'T taking the controls back into our hands, trying to "keep ourselves saved", trying to "complete our salvation", trying to "endure to the end" (as if that weren't talking about the Jews surviving the great tribulation). When we stop trying to be the one to get us through to the end, we find that Jesus has already accomplished all these things for us, and now we rest in His hands as He forms us into what He wants.

We can stop being afraid of failing, and learn to live in a spiritual abundance and victory when we trust Him.

Saying we cannot know whether or not we know Him, or whether or not His promise is true, that He will save His children, that being His children IS our salvation, this is not only unScriptural, but it undermines the very faith by which we are to live.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

Romans 8:15-16 LITV
For you did not receive a spirit of slavery again to fear, but you received a Spirit of adoption by which we cry, Abba! Father! The Spirit Himself witnesses with our spirit that we are children of God.

1 John 3:24 LITV
And the one keeping His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit which He gave to us.

1 John 4:13 LITV
By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because of His Spirit He has given to us.

These are direct statements that specifically address our ability to know that we are children of God, that we have relationship with Him. The Spirit testifies with our spirit, and we know we are in Him, and He in us, by His Spirit given to us.

Those who do not have the Spirit in them may have any number of ideas about themselves and God and life, and there is no expectation that those won't be deceived. Truth is in Christ.

But those in whom Christ dwells will know Him. Only, as in all, according to your faith. For many their faith has been shipwrecked by perverted teaching. For many they've come to think that the daily struggle trying to limit their sins, trying to make up for them afterward, hoping they can be right with God still, that this is the intended life of the Christian.

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Knowing that we know God, knowing that He will complete His work in us, knowing that the victory over sin and death is assured, knowing these things, this is the faith that gives us the victory now. His power is over all, so His power is over me today. This is the trust to walk in His Spirit, to not do the fleshy works, and to live in love, in joy, in peace, all the Spirit's fruit as we live Spirit controlled,

Because we AREN'T taking the controls back into our hands, trying to "keep ourselves saved", trying to "complete our salvation", trying to "endure to the end" (as if that weren't talking about the Jews surviving the great tribulation). When we stop trying to be the one to get us through to the end, we find that Jesus has already accomplished all these things for us, and now we rest in His hands as He forms us into what He wants.

We can stop being afraid of failing, and learn to live in a spiritual abundance and victory when we trust Him.

Saying we cannot know whether or not we know Him, or whether or not His promise is true, that He will save His children, that being His children IS our salvation, this is not only unScriptural, but it undermines the very faith by which we are to live.

Much love!

You are speaking here of hope not faith. What is unscriptural is mixing up the two. Faith is in the moment...knowing that as we walk in His victory we are experiencing His salvation.

But judgment day is a whole other matter. Having a living hope and a carnal certainty are two very different things. Religion breeds certainty, not a living hope.

We can draw wrong conclusions so easily based on loving our own life. Didn't Judas cast out demons and do signs and wonders? Did he not walk with Jesus?

Didn't Jesus say that MANY will say...Lord, Lord, look at all we did in your name...And Jesus will respond...go away I never knew you...workers of iniquity.

So what IS biblical is not certainty but godly fear and humility. The rest is noise made by the flesh.

 

[marks]

You are speaking here of hope not faith. What is unscriptural is mixing up the two. Faith is in the moment...knowing that as we walk in His victory we are experiencing His salvation.

Hope is the outcome of our faith.

We trust that what Jesus said is true. Jesus promised us resurrection. We believe Him, and so we expect to be resurrected. We have the hope of the resurrection.

What I'm pointing to is that the Bible tells us that there is a way by which we will in fact KNOW that we are in Him, and He in us, by His Spirit given to us.

I'm not talking about "experiencing salvation", I'm talking about personally knowing our Creator God.

But judgment day is a whole other matter. Having a living hope and a carnal certainty are two very different things. Religion breeds certainty, not a living hope.

Yes, this is very true. Carnal understandings whatever they are will lead you astray. Religion provides people a means by which they can be deceived, but a living hope,

1 Peter 1:3 KJV
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

We've been born into a living hope, living because Christ lives in me, and I know He is here, and I believe Him, He gives me life, and will give me life, according to His promise.

Judgement Day . . . is not the day on which God casts out His children, to be eternally ashamed and contemned. Will you only know whether you truly knew God after your life is over? God says we will know if we know Him, what are we saying when we say we can't really know? That we don't know?

We can draw wrong conclusions so easily based on loving our own life. Didn't Judas cast out demons and do signs and wonders? Did he not walk with Jesus?

Yes we most certainly can reach VERY erroneous conclusions.

We can have all manner of amazing and wonderful-seeming experiences. We can look like the real deal. We can think we understand mysteries untouched by those around us. But none of these, not our experiences, no matter what they seemed to be, nor our reputation, nor our opinions of ourselves, none of these show whether or not we truly know God.

I don't have much to say most the time regarding what people tell me they've experienced. My brother and I can look at the same thing, and where I see red, he sees gray. What is it really?

But when God speaks in His Word, I know His Word is truth. I don't put my trust in people or such claims as they might make, I put my trust in Jesus Christ.

Didn't Jesus say that MANY will say...Lord, Lord, look at all we did in your name...And Jesus will respond...go away I never knew you...workers of iniquity.

Again, very true. They will go away, having never known Jesus. And they didn't even say that they did! "Lord! Look at what we did!"

When in reality the question is, do we know Him? And these did not. They never did. Deluded thinking they had to "do" something, when what they really needed was to know Him.

This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, Whom You have sent.

So what IS biblical is not certainty but godly fear and humility. The rest is noise made by the flesh.

Is it unScriptural to know God? That hardly seems to be right.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

You're welcome

Why do you worry over what will happen to you on judgment day.

I dont have a "Judgement day".. in eternity.

God's Judgement due me, crucified Christ, already.
He took my Judgement.
How can you not understand this, unless you are up to your eyeballs in a Cult that does not understand the Cross.
And that would explain why you can't even Talk about the Cross or the Reason that Jesus is : John 3:16.

 

[Behold]

Didn't Jesus say that MANY will say...Lord, Lord, look at all we did in your name...And Jesus will respond...go away I never knew you...workers of iniquity.

Your verse says they were practicing lawlessness, or rebellion, or living in sin.
That is not the status of a Born Again Spirit.
The born again, are become "the Righteousness of God, in Christ".....so, your verse is talking to these...... John 3:36

 

[David H.]

Why did you say something that Ignorant?

I dont have a "Judgement day".. little one.

God's Judgement due me, crucified Christ, already.
He took my Judgement.
How can you not understand this, unless you are up to your eyeballs in a Cult that does not understand the Cross.
And that would explain why you can't even Talk about the Cross or the Reason that Jesus is : John 3:16.

You will be judged for your works, what you have done with the talents he has granted you, and be awarded or humiliated accordingly, it is called the Judgment seat of Christ. Some will be great in heaven others will be least, and it is usually the ones who think they are great on earth that will be the least in heaven.... Think about that.

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. (2 Corinthians 5:10)

 

[Episkopos]

Hope is the outcome of our faith.

We trust that what Jesus said is true. Jesus promised us resurrection. We believe Him, and so we expect to be resurrected. We have the hope of the resurrection.

What I'm pointing to is that the Bible tells us that there is a way by which we will in fact KNOW that we are in Him, and He in us, by His Spirit given to us.

I'm not talking about "experiencing salvation", I'm talking about personally knowing our Creator God.


Yes, this is very true. Carnal understandings whatever they are will lead you astray. Religion provides people a means by which they can be deceived, but a living hope,

1 Peter 1:3 KJV
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

We've been born into a living hope, living because Christ lives in me, and I know He is here, and I believe Him, He gives me life, and will give me life, according to His promise.

Judgement Day . . . is not the day on which God casts out His children, to be eternally ashamed and contemned. Will you only know whether you truly knew God after your life is over? God says we will know if we know Him, what are we saying when we say we can't really know? That we don't know?


Yes we most certainly can reach VERY erroneous conclusions.

We can have all manner of amazing and wonderful-seeming experiences. We can look like the real deal. We can think we understand mysteries untouched by those around us. But none of these, not our experiences, no matter what they seemed to be, nor our reputation, nor our opinions of ourselves, none of these show whether or not we truly know God.

I don't have much to say most the time regarding what people tell me they've experienced. My brother and I can look at the same thing, and where I see red, he sees gray. What is it really?

But when God speaks in His Word, I know His Word is truth. I don't put my trust in people or such claims as they might make, I put my trust in Jesus Christ.


Again, very true. They will go away, having never known Jesus. And they didn't even say that they did! "Lord! Look at what we did!"

When in reality the question is, do we know Him? And these did not. They never did. Deluded thinking they had to "do" something, when what they really needed was to know Him.

This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, Whom You have sent.


Is it unScriptural to know God? That hardly seems to be right.

Much love!

There is a verse that says...let he who boasts boast in this...that he understands and knows Me! (Jer. 9:24)

God has a sense of humour.

Nobody that knows God is going to boast about it.

So many verses are tantalizing to the part of us that entertains a religious certainty. So we are being tested to remain nonpartisan, humble and fearful of God's final verdict.

I know all of this goes directly against Middle-class thinking.
But we are not to filter God's words through our own intellect. We will invariably give weight to the wrong things.

Of course those who know the Lord have been saved from the condemnation of the world. But Paul was fearful that he might be disqualified. Are we to be more certain than Paul?

1 Cor. 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Rom. 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Does our certainty extend to thinking we are much wiser than the Jews who were chosen before us?

Wisdom shows itself in humility and the fear of the Lord. No amount of certainty makes us wiser than those who were cut off before us.

 

[David H.]

Romans 8:15-16 LITV
For you did not receive a spirit of slavery again to fear, but you received a Spirit of adoption by which we cry, Abba! Father! The Spirit Himself witnesses with our spirit that we are children of God.

What does it mean to cry "abba, Father" to you? It means that when we reach a childlike faith of humility, submission and teachability is when he can begin to work in us, and that His discipline becomes constructive.

 

[Behold]

You will be judged for your works,

Bema seat, is not the same idea as "judgement for sin"... Revelation 20:11

The Bema seat is only for the Born again.

The bema seat, is not to scold you, and harass you and condemn you, as "there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ"

So, Christ will look not at your works.....but at the motive you had for doing them, as how He evaluates your works as stubble or as Gold, etc.

David, God looks at the HEART, ... people look at the deeds.
Deeds are not the proof to God..........as He sees WHY you do what you do, and if that WHY is not pure, then it isn't and Christ will reveal this, but not in condemnation.......only in rewards not gained.

 

[Episkopos]

Bema seat, is not the same idea as "judgement for sin"... Revelation 20:11

The Bema seat is only for the Born again.

The bema seat, is not to scold you, and harass you and condemn you, as "there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ"

So, Christ will look not at your works.....but at the motive you had for doing them, as how He evaluates your works as stubble or as Gold, etc.

David, God looks at the HEART, ... people look at the deeds.
Deeds are not the proof to God..........as He sees WHY you do what you do, and if that WHY is not pure, then it isn't and Christ will reveal this, but not in condemnation.......only in rewards not gained.

This is more unbalanced commentary. Those who remain in Christ walk as He walked. The last time I checked Jesus walked without sin and was above condemnation. So then happy is he that will be found to be walking in resurrection life.

But that pedigree does not cover all believers. Actually very few will ever know what abiding in Christ is.

The Bema seat will be a place of both honour AND dishonour. There is condemnation for many believers...and most verses about judgment warn us of this possibility. (Of course one would have to put as much weight on verses we don't like as the ones that appeal to us).

Do not teachers have the greater condemnation if they are found to be deficient?

Jas. 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.

Or what about very good brothers who get promoted too quickly?

1 Tim. 3:6 “Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.”

People are divided within themselves until the outer man is crucified. We can easily fail the grace of God. Remember the servant that buried his talent. Many will do this.

 

[David H.]

Bema seat, is not the same idea as "judgement for sin"... Revelation 20:11

The Bema seat is only for the Born again.

The bema seat, is not to scold you, and harass you and condemn you, as "there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ"

So, Christ will look not at your works.....but at the motive you had for doing them, as how He evaluates your works as stubble or as Gold, etc.

David, God looks at the HEART, ... people look at the deeds.
Deeds are not the proof to God..........as He sees WHY you do what you do, and if that WHY is not pure, then it isn't and Christ will reveal this, but not in condemnation.......only in rewards not gained.

Yes, so you will be judged for your works as a born again believer, whether they are righteous or not (Motives of the heart) and you will be awarded accordingly. The question then is why are you teaching newborns to be content with where they are instead of teaching them to grow in their faith?

 

[David H.]

David, God looks at the HEART, ... people look at the deeds.

The highway to hell is paved with good intentions. Faith without works is dead faith.... Faith produces works, We are His workmanship created for good works.... (Ephesians 2:10).... Your peaching only half the Gospel.

 

[Behold]

This is more unbalanced commentary. Those who remain in Christ walk as He walked.

If you believe you can lose your salvation, then your understanding of the Cross of Christ is "unbalanced".

Do you believe you can lose your Salvation, Episkopos?
Thats not a hard question, but it does take some backbone to admit it.

Give it a try.

 

[David H.]

If you believe you can lose your salvation, then your understanding of the Cross of Christ is "unbalanced".

Do you believe you can lose your Salvation, Episkopos?
Thats not a hard question, but it does take some backbone to admit it.

Give it a try.

I Will answer this for you as well.

The church as we know it today is full of half hearted believers, they have Jesus as savior but have not made Him their LORD. A Half hearted believer does not enter the Promised land just like the Hebrews who crossed the Jordan and were believers failed to enter the Holy Land land save Joshua and Caleb who fully believed (Refer to Hebrews Chapters 3-4 to understand this fully.

So the question is what does it mean to fully rest in the finished work of Christ? (Aka the doctrine of Rest) It means to fully trust in His provision to overcome the Giants that we face in this life that make us think we are without power to overcome them. Our Power comes from Trusting in God to empower us not trusting in our own strength and will and mental prowess to overcome them.

Of those half hearted believers, there are some who are moving in the right direction and some who are stagnating (2 Peter 1:8-9) and will be judged accordingly at the Judgment seat of Christ.

Now some have suggested that outer darkness is the place for these stagnating half hearted believers.... Not hell, but a place of mourning and gnashing of teeth. Others call this "purgatory" I do not know fully if I agree with this or not but it is a possibility we as BELIEVERS must contend with, and those of us who call ourselves teachers will be held to account for if we are teaching the doctrine of rest as doctrine that encourages complacency rather than pressing on the high calling of God in Christ (Philippians 3:14). Faith that is not producing works is dead faith... The two go hand in hand, rather than being opposed to one another as you make them appear, and as you make the doctrine of rest out to be. We are called to live as Christ lived, to be perfect as he was perfect, to tell someone they need not strive for these things is to preach half the gospel and half the "way" which is why we have so many halfhearted believers in the church today, and in so doing the light of the Gospel is not shining to the world and we are being as a result the world is losing its mind again, which is the natural tendency of the sinful world without our Christian light shining in it. All one has to do is look at history, the time before WW2 was a time of intense rationalism without the Spirit shining the light, that is what rationalizing the Gospel does, it prevents the light from shining and the supernatural work of the Spirit from happening in the lives of the believers.

I think Jesus knew that Satan would plant his tares among the wheat, and we are not to try and pluck them up, but instead the angels of heaven will before the harvest. Are those half hearted believers tares then? God Knows the heart, and will judge each accordingly, the only ones who are secure in this are the ones who press on to that high calling and are in the process of pressing on. (2 Peter 1:8).

 

[marks]

What does it mean to cry "abba, Father" to you? It means that when we reach a childlike faith of humility, submission and teachability is when he can begin to work in us, and that His discipline becomes constructive.

When we cry to our Father in faith and love and desire, when we cry to our Father knowing this is our Father to Whom we cry, this is what it means to me that by His Spirit we cry Abba, Father. You cannot remove His Spirit from that crying out, because this is our adoption as children, that we've been united to Him by the Spirit He's given us. And so by His Spirit . . . we cry.

His discipline is ALWAYS constructive. And afterward, the peaceable fruits of righteousness. Yes, we so need a childlike faith that we can simply believe what we read in the Bible, instead of feeling compelled to support esoteric viewpoints with convoluted arguments. These lead us away from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Is there a time God is not at work in His children? The good work He began He will complete until the day of Christ. His discipline demonstrates to us we are His children. I think you've learned in the same way as I have that in times of real suffering, He shows Himself to us in His great love. We come to trust Him as He carries us through, things which would destroy our bodies, our minds, our souls. But He gives us His Spirit, and we know life instead of death. Because of His Spirit given to us.

We cry to Abba, our Father, as we want to know Him more, and He is very close to us.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Marks, these are two men who have gone some ways with God and learned some things from Him. If they are trying to get you to see something, they are not trying to harm you.

 

[marks]

I know all of this goes directly against Middle-class thinking.

All verses in context, naturally, which means not only the immediate contexts of the words, though certainly that, and not only the phrases, though certainly those. Within the entire Body of Scritpure we have to compare the sayings of the Bible, and not to discard one over another, but to find the true harmony within them. And we know that they will not contradict. I'll even say there isn't any "tension" or whatever word one would use to describe when they don't truly understand how passages interrelate, and therefore do not truly understand them.

God is a Father Who by His Spirit teaches His children, intending that we will walk in truth. His ways will be known in His Word. The unspiritual man will not understand, but the spiritual man will understand.

But it's not that the spiritual man reads anything different than the unspiritual, only that he understands what he reads, while the unspiritual man sees little more than words on paper with less significance than the morning paper.

The spiritual man reads what is there, and the Holy Spirit begins to teach him, what the words mean in their places, and to believe what they say. Not that he would believe something not written there. God's Word is hidden from the unspiritual, but hidden in plain sight.

I don't believe we will ever reach a true understanding that will conflict with what is directly said in the Bible. And even in the idioms and metaphors and allegory, there will never be contradiction.

Those things plainly stated are not taken back in another place, and those things which may have one meaning or another need to harmonize with the plain things.

1 Cor. 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

What will he be castaway from? Rejected by testing? Let it not be so for us!

But we are not to filter God's words through our own intellect. We will invariably give weight to the wrong things.

Yes, this is important. We need to allow the Word of God to reform our minds, in simplicity of trust, an open heart to God.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Marks, these are two men who have gone some ways with God and learned some things from Him. If they are trying to get you to see something, they are not trying to harm you.

Nor do I seek to harm you.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Marks, these are two men who have gone some ways with God and learned some things from Him. If they are trying to get you to see something, they are not trying to harm you.

When a man is mature in the Lord, he speaks in truth and wholesomeness. His words will agree with sound doctrine, and with the faith of Christ, and not by any means will someone who lacks spiritual fruit conterfeit a true spiritual fruit among the mature.

We reveal ourselves in our words, and we should first and foremost consider our own before others, and see what our own words will say to us.

What I say to you is that Christ remains forever, and He is mighty to save. Trust Him.

Much love!