(Dunamite;23765)
The whole book of Acts is full of people who were baptized in the Holy Spirit with frequent manifestations, the most common and obvious one is speaking in tongues. There are also external manifestations such as wind and tongues of fire (Acts 2).I will start before that though. First this was all promised. In Joel 2;"28 "And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. 29 Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days. Paul lists prophecy as a spiritual gift. Dreams and visions are often ways in which the Holy Spirit communicates to us. Notice that it is for all people, even servants and both men and women. This is important because in the OT, the Holy Spirit was only poured out on prophets, kings, and judges. Joel is talking about something entirely different.Is baptism of the Holy Spirit different from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? Yes. All believers have the Spirit of God in us from the moment we are justified. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is associated with anointing here: Acts 10: 37 You know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.It is spoken of as being different than water baptism which is also mentioned here. It is referred to as an anointing and says it was for power. It was followed by distinct actions and results such as doing good and healing.In Luke 24: 49 Jesus says "I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high." The apostles have probably already been baptized with water because Jesus and they had already been doing this throughout Judea and Samaria. But Acts 1 says this to make it even clearer: 4 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit." Note that water baptism is mentioned and baptism with the Holy Spirit.The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is mentioned in the Old Testament. In Ezekiel 36: 27 it says, "And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws." This is not referring to what was referred to in Joel. It is associated with the new covenant and salvation. It has no mention of power and there is no subsequent manifestations and action to do God's work. See also: 2 Corinthians 1:22 and Ephesians 3: 16 - 17. The latter one says the Spirit will be put "in your inner being".Lets look at Acts 8.Water baptism: 12 But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.Baptism with the Holy Spirit: 14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.These people had already accepted Christ and been water baptized. Notice the laying on of hands as the rite for baptism in the Holy Spirit. See also Acts 10: 44 - 48, 11: 14 - 18. In the Acts 11 reference he speaks of the Spirit coming on them and refers to it as a gift.In one case the Spirit is in you and the other he his upon or on you. One internal and permanent and the other is external and episodic.If you examine the Greek you will see that the inward work of the Holy Spirit uses the word, Pletho or Pimplemi to refer to the exteranl work of the Holy Spirit (baptism in the Holy Spirit). This is the same word used when Jesus was offered a drink of wine vinegar on sponge. It suggests aborbing and temporary (Matthew 27: 48). The same word is used in Luke 4: 28 - 29 when it refers to them becoming "filled with rage". This is a temporary condition.You can see the same thing in Luke 5: 7 when the boat is filled with fish. Other examples are: Luke 1: 41 - 42, Luke 1: 67, Acts 2: 4.In contrast a different Greek word is used consistently to to describe the indwelling of the Holy Spirit for salvation is: Pleroo and Pleres which mean permeated or saturated. See Luke 2: 40: And the child grew and became strong; he was filled with wisdom and the grace of God was upon him. This is a permanent feature. Wisdom does not come and go. See also: Luke 4: 1; Acts 6:3, 5; Acts 11: 24; Acts 13: 52; Ephesians 5: 18.Both justification and sanctification refer to the inward work of the Holy Spirit. See Acts 2: 41 - 4741 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day. (inward = salvation)42They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. (inward = sanctification)The outward works of the Spirit are for power.43 and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles.Justification and sanctification are for the individual's personal walk.Empowerment is for kingdom building. The Great Commission is found in Acts 1: 8. Notice that the Spirit comes on the believer and that it is referred to as power and it is for spreading the Good News."But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."From the above we can see that the baptism is unique. It is not the same as salvation. Notice that it is linked with the laying on of hands. Notice that there were manifestations. Now here is a list of other manifestations:1 Corinthians 12: 7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.Some such as tongues may be observable, but others such as distinguishing spirits may not be. Further on:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. 29A re all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But eagerly desire the greater gifts. Notice that we should desire the gifts. See also Acts 2: 38.Luke 11:9 "So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. 11 "Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"The gifts of the Holy Spirit have never expired. Nowhere is a due date given. Rather Jesus says, "If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. All believers have the Holy Spirit in them and working through us the Holy Spirit can accomplish great things to bring glory to Jesus and to enlarge the Kingdom. We are told that all we have to do is to ask and we can have even more. God has a vast storehouse of riches. He works through prayer. When we ask he gives exactly what we need.He wants us to receive willingly. That means that we must make space, by emptying ourselves and being submissive to him. To pray with openness and expectation is good. When we say to God give us some things and not others then we are limiting his action and our own growth. Remember that even Jesus could not do many miracles in his home town because of unbelief.If you do not believe in being blessed in this way, that is okay. Your salvation is not affected. Your experience does not have to mirror anyone else's. Likewise there's does not have to mirror yours.It is good to be skeptical, but we also have to be wise. I would pray lots over this before I made up my mind.Blessings,Dunamite
Being baptized in the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with being "touched" by God. Scripture does not make that connection, does not say anything about us being "Touched by God!!", and such a connection is merely humany contrived via peoples' imaginations. When people in Scripture were baptized in the Holy Spirit, they did not spend a lot of time talking and speculating about the Holy Spirit, as "Pentecostals" do today, but they rather got onto the business of having the works of the Holy Spirit speak for themselves. Today, the so called "baptism in the Holy Ghost" consists of just a lot of spurrious talk and antics, where people are jumping around and hooting in church. The baptized people in Scripture did none of that.The wind and tongues of fire spoken of in Acts 2:1-13 are not repeated today, and are just talked about by church people. Just because a person is excitedly babbling in an intelligible tongue does not mean they are fulfilling Joel 2:28. They most likely are not, these days. Their "propohesies" are empty of substance, and have no material effect upon Christiendom.The people today who claim to be "anointed in the Holy Spirit" do none of the powerful things Jesus and the Apostles constantly did. If someone today does in fact do a miracle through the Power of the Holy Spirit, it is an extreme exception. All other claims of being "filled in the Holy Spirit" are just psychological hysteria after being prompted by a babbling preacher. None of the people in Scripture ever were filled after being screamed at for 30-50 minutes by a hysteric preacher."Pentecostals" who today attempt to "explain" the operation of being "anointed in the Holy Spirit" talk at great length about how it happened in Scripture, as you have, but that is all they can do. They like to elaborate about how they can do "Great Things!!" in the power of the Holy Spirit, even by just "Asking God for More!!", but they do not demonstrate it in material reality, as the Apostles did. They just talk, and demonstrate nothing. And, they become very slick at doing the big mouthed sales pitch for hyperimaginative things, but which never happen "In the Spirit!!" as they say will happen. You do not need to arrogantly presume to tell me what is "okay" about what I do not believe when I refute the error of falsely "Being Anointed in the Holy Spirit!!" I am blessed with the fullness of God's blessings given in Scripture, and have no need for the imaginary speculations contrived by people who cannot demonstrate their talk with deeds. It is strange that those "Pentecostals" who claim to understand so much about spiritual power can never give a plain and forthright accountability for the huge discrepancy between their words and their lack of action.Yes, "We" do have to be wise, and a big part of that wisdom is not to be gullible to psychological manipulation by "Pentecostal" preachers who inject their false ideas into pure Scripture.I Corinthians 4:20, "For the kingdom of God in not in word, but in power."Shelli.
The whole book of Acts is full of people who were baptized in the Holy Spirit with frequent manifestations, the most common and obvious one is speaking in tongues. There are also external manifestations such as wind and tongues of fire (Acts 2).I will start before that though. First this was all promised. In Joel 2;"28 "And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. 29 Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days. Paul lists prophecy as a spiritual gift. Dreams and visions are often ways in which the Holy Spirit communicates to us. Notice that it is for all people, even servants and both men and women. This is important because in the OT, the Holy Spirit was only poured out on prophets, kings, and judges. Joel is talking about something entirely different.Is baptism of the Holy Spirit different from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? Yes. All believers have the Spirit of God in us from the moment we are justified. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is associated with anointing here: Acts 10: 37 You know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.It is spoken of as being different than water baptism which is also mentioned here. It is referred to as an anointing and says it was for power. It was followed by distinct actions and results such as doing good and healing.In Luke 24: 49 Jesus says "I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high." The apostles have probably already been baptized with water because Jesus and they had already been doing this throughout Judea and Samaria. But Acts 1 says this to make it even clearer: 4 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit." Note that water baptism is mentioned and baptism with the Holy Spirit.The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is mentioned in the Old Testament. In Ezekiel 36: 27 it says, "And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws." This is not referring to what was referred to in Joel. It is associated with the new covenant and salvation. It has no mention of power and there is no subsequent manifestations and action to do God's work. See also: 2 Corinthians 1:22 and Ephesians 3: 16 - 17. The latter one says the Spirit will be put "in your inner being".Lets look at Acts 8.Water baptism: 12 But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.Baptism with the Holy Spirit: 14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.These people had already accepted Christ and been water baptized. Notice the laying on of hands as the rite for baptism in the Holy Spirit. See also Acts 10: 44 - 48, 11: 14 - 18. In the Acts 11 reference he speaks of the Spirit coming on them and refers to it as a gift.In one case the Spirit is in you and the other he his upon or on you. One internal and permanent and the other is external and episodic.If you examine the Greek you will see that the inward work of the Holy Spirit uses the word, Pletho or Pimplemi to refer to the exteranl work of the Holy Spirit (baptism in the Holy Spirit). This is the same word used when Jesus was offered a drink of wine vinegar on sponge. It suggests aborbing and temporary (Matthew 27: 48). The same word is used in Luke 4: 28 - 29 when it refers to them becoming "filled with rage". This is a temporary condition.You can see the same thing in Luke 5: 7 when the boat is filled with fish. Other examples are: Luke 1: 41 - 42, Luke 1: 67, Acts 2: 4.In contrast a different Greek word is used consistently to to describe the indwelling of the Holy Spirit for salvation is: Pleroo and Pleres which mean permeated or saturated. See Luke 2: 40: And the child grew and became strong; he was filled with wisdom and the grace of God was upon him. This is a permanent feature. Wisdom does not come and go. See also: Luke 4: 1; Acts 6:3, 5; Acts 11: 24; Acts 13: 52; Ephesians 5: 18.Both justification and sanctification refer to the inward work of the Holy Spirit. See Acts 2: 41 - 4741 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day. (inward = salvation)42They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. (inward = sanctification)The outward works of the Spirit are for power.43 and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles.Justification and sanctification are for the individual's personal walk.Empowerment is for kingdom building. The Great Commission is found in Acts 1: 8. Notice that the Spirit comes on the believer and that it is referred to as power and it is for spreading the Good News."But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."From the above we can see that the baptism is unique. It is not the same as salvation. Notice that it is linked with the laying on of hands. Notice that there were manifestations. Now here is a list of other manifestations:1 Corinthians 12: 7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.Some such as tongues may be observable, but others such as distinguishing spirits may not be. Further on:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. 29A re all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But eagerly desire the greater gifts. Notice that we should desire the gifts. See also Acts 2: 38.Luke 11:9 "So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. 11 "Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"The gifts of the Holy Spirit have never expired. Nowhere is a due date given. Rather Jesus says, "If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. All believers have the Holy Spirit in them and working through us the Holy Spirit can accomplish great things to bring glory to Jesus and to enlarge the Kingdom. We are told that all we have to do is to ask and we can have even more. God has a vast storehouse of riches. He works through prayer. When we ask he gives exactly what we need.He wants us to receive willingly. That means that we must make space, by emptying ourselves and being submissive to him. To pray with openness and expectation is good. When we say to God give us some things and not others then we are limiting his action and our own growth. Remember that even Jesus could not do many miracles in his home town because of unbelief.If you do not believe in being blessed in this way, that is okay. Your salvation is not affected. Your experience does not have to mirror anyone else's. Likewise there's does not have to mirror yours.It is good to be skeptical, but we also have to be wise. I would pray lots over this before I made up my mind.Blessings,Dunamite
Being baptized in the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with being "touched" by God. Scripture does not make that connection, does not say anything about us being "Touched by God!!", and such a connection is merely humany contrived via peoples' imaginations. When people in Scripture were baptized in the Holy Spirit, they did not spend a lot of time talking and speculating about the Holy Spirit, as "Pentecostals" do today, but they rather got onto the business of having the works of the Holy Spirit speak for themselves. Today, the so called "baptism in the Holy Ghost" consists of just a lot of spurrious talk and antics, where people are jumping around and hooting in church. The baptized people in Scripture did none of that.The wind and tongues of fire spoken of in Acts 2:1-13 are not repeated today, and are just talked about by church people. Just because a person is excitedly babbling in an intelligible tongue does not mean they are fulfilling Joel 2:28. They most likely are not, these days. Their "propohesies" are empty of substance, and have no material effect upon Christiendom.The people today who claim to be "anointed in the Holy Spirit" do none of the powerful things Jesus and the Apostles constantly did. If someone today does in fact do a miracle through the Power of the Holy Spirit, it is an extreme exception. All other claims of being "filled in the Holy Spirit" are just psychological hysteria after being prompted by a babbling preacher. None of the people in Scripture ever were filled after being screamed at for 30-50 minutes by a hysteric preacher."Pentecostals" who today attempt to "explain" the operation of being "anointed in the Holy Spirit" talk at great length about how it happened in Scripture, as you have, but that is all they can do. They like to elaborate about how they can do "Great Things!!" in the power of the Holy Spirit, even by just "Asking God for More!!", but they do not demonstrate it in material reality, as the Apostles did. They just talk, and demonstrate nothing. And, they become very slick at doing the big mouthed sales pitch for hyperimaginative things, but which never happen "In the Spirit!!" as they say will happen. You do not need to arrogantly presume to tell me what is "okay" about what I do not believe when I refute the error of falsely "Being Anointed in the Holy Spirit!!" I am blessed with the fullness of God's blessings given in Scripture, and have no need for the imaginary speculations contrived by people who cannot demonstrate their talk with deeds. It is strange that those "Pentecostals" who claim to understand so much about spiritual power can never give a plain and forthright accountability for the huge discrepancy between their words and their lack of action.Yes, "We" do have to be wise, and a big part of that wisdom is not to be gullible to psychological manipulation by "Pentecostal" preachers who inject their false ideas into pure Scripture.I Corinthians 4:20, "For the kingdom of God in not in word, but in power."Shelli.
