Believers stay righteous through their obedience

[Zachary]

Are you certain you can attain to salvation by your good works?

Depends what you mean by good works!

"Work out your salvation with fear and trembling!" Phil 2:12

Do you consider the following to be good works?
-- loving Jesus enough to obey His commandments (John 14)
-- practicing righteousness (1 John 2 and 1 John 3)
.

 

[Zachary]

There are a few hopeless cases on every Christian forum.
Some are sent by Satan to make a big mess of things.

Yikes!

There is absolutely NO question about this!
Satan has at least one of his henchmen at the door of every Christian forum.
Not sayin' you are one of 'em.

However, it's high time that you wake up and get with God's program!
You have been greatly deceived by your mortal enemy.
.

 

[marks]

But for the sake of those whose iniquity is found to be hateful in their sight...I would proclaim to them that there is victory in Christ over the power of sin.

Amen!!!

I believe that there are both saved and unsaved who live according to Romans 7:14-25...

I don't see how the unregenerate, those who have not received the new creation, have the desire to obey God. So they are wholy slaves to sin, to serve the desires of the flesh, and the fleshy mind. I think all they can do, all we can do before we are saved, is to either receive God's message as truth, or rejected it as inconvenient.

Ephesians 2
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Much love!

 

[marks]

However, it's high time that you wake up and get with God's program!

Right. No need to get personal.

 

[justbyfaith]

Depends what you mean by good works!

"Work out your salvation with fear and trembling!" Phil 2:12

Do you consider the following to be good works?
-- loving Jesus enough to obey His commandments (John 14)
-- practicing righteousness (1 John 2 and 1 John 3)
.

Philippians 2:12 is restated more clearly in 2 Peter 1:10...this is the real meaning of it; not that you work for your salvation with fear and trembling, but that you work it out...giving all diligence to make your calling and election sure.

We love Jesus enough to obey His commandments, and we practice righteousness...because He has already saved us...not in order to obtain salvation. He sheds abroad His love in our hearts through the Holy Ghost, Romans 5:5, and we receive the Holy Ghost (even salvation) through faith, Galatians 3:14. Therefore the obedience that stems from love is not possible apart from faith. And therefore faith is the catalyst for my obedience. And I am also saved by grace through faith, and that not of myself; it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9.

I don't see how the unregenerate, those who have not received the new creation, have the desire to obey God.

There are those who seek and desire to obey the Lord because they are seeking to establish their own righteousness. And in doing so they are not submitting to the righteousness of the Lord. Romans 10:3 (see also the context in Romans 9:30-33, Romans 10:1-4).

 

[marks]

There are those who seek and desire to obey the Lord because they are seeking to establish their own righteousness. And in doing so they are not submitting to the righteousness of the Lord. Romans 10:3 (see also the context in Romans 9:30-33, Romans 10:1-4).

Just so. It's not obedience, instead, serving a god of their own making.

Much love!

 

[marks]

There is absolutely NO question about this!
Satan has at least one of his henchmen at the door of every Christian forum.
Not sayin' you are one of 'em.

However, it's high time that you wake up and get with God's program!
You have been greatly deceived by your mortal enemy.
.

Coming back to this . . . What program are you talking about? What is the deception by which I have been deceived?

Or were you just throwing these things out there without anything particular in mind?

Much love!

 

[Zachary]

What program are you talking about? What is the deception by which I have been deceived?

Hopeless ... absolutely hopeless!
.

 

[justbyfaith]

Hopeless ... absolutely hopeless!
.

Notice that in saying that works don't save a man, we are not saying that a man who is saved will not do good works.

Good works are the normal result of a living and saving faith in Jesus Christ.

The works don't save...it is the faith that does this.

Jesus said, Ye must be born again.

If you can cite any instance where someone was born again of the Holy Spirit as the result of giving $5 to a poor person, I will believe your story.

There is no such instance; since Titus 3:5 is clear that we are not regenerated or renewed in the Holy Ghost through works of righteousness which we have done.

 

[justbyfaith]

In Acts chapter 10, Cornelius' alms were gone up as a memorial before God...yet his salvation did not result out of the almsgiving. He had to call for Peter to come and preach the gospel to them; and the baptism of the Holy Ghost came on them all as the result of the hearing of faith (see Galatians 3:2, Galatians 3:5-6).

 

[marks]

Hopeless ... absolutely hopeless!
.

Sounds like this conversation is hopeless.

Too bad!

 

[marks]

In Acts chapter 10, Cornelius' alms were gone up as a memorial before God...yet his salvation did not result out of the almsgiving. He had to call for Peter to come and preach the gospel to them; and the baptism of the Holy Ghost came on them all as the result of the hearing of faith (see Galatians 3:2, Galatians 3:5-6).

That's a good point!

Much love!