While we both agree on the general subject, i.e. birth of the spirit, as you say. We don't agree on how Jesus makes his point. What we have here is a conversation between two people, Jesus and Nicodemus; one person understands the concept of being born again, while the other person does not understand it. Nicodemus does not understand the concept of being "born again" or "born from above". He is grappling with the concept attempting to make sense of it, repeating back to Jesus concepts that he DOES understand, such as natural childbirth.
One more thing, Jesus isn't strictly attempting to explain the concept of being born again. His purpose is to explain why Nicodemus was able to recognize the miracles for what they represent. Only those who have been born again can recognize the significance of the miracles Jesus' performed.
Nicodemus understands the significance of the signs.
3:1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; 2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”
Jesus explains why Nicodemus understood while others do not understand.
3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Nicodemus asks for an explanation of "born again".
4 Nicodemus *said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?”
(Note: Here we see a person grappling with a new concept, attempting to make sense of it in terms of ideas with which he is already familiar. Normally, according to nature, human beings exit a mother's womb, grow to maturity, and grow old. The process is never reversed and neither is it repeated. Nicodemus is forming a mental picture of being born and can't understand how someone might repeat the process.)
Natural birth and Spiritual birth
5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(Note: here the word "and" means "also". Some of us hear Jesus teach that two new things must take place before a person can enter the kingdom of God: 1) born of water and 2) born of spirit. Rather, Jesus is teaching that one additional thing must take place: not only natural birth, but also spiritual birth.)
Born of Water:
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh,
And born of Spirit:
and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
(Note: In his statement above, Jesus defines what he means by being born of water. To be "born of water" is to be born of the flesh.)
For this reason, we can rule out the idea that Jesus speaks of baptism. The comparison is between the natural and the supernatural; born of flesh, and born of spirit.
1. It is good we agree it is not about water baptism.
2. I can't say I agree Nicodemus had been born of the Spirit. No one was "born again" until after Jesus was glorified. There were "just" men whose spirits were "perfected" when the New Covenant was finally inaugurated, and Nicodemus was apparently one of these, but they were,
ipso facto,
imperfect until then (which is one and the same as saying they had not yet enjoyed the privilege of "forever perfected with one sacrifice those who are being sanctified") Hebrews 11:40, Hebrews 12:23. Nicodemus was "just" but not "perfected", was not yet partaking of the New Covenant (the same as all the men of faith, which Hebrews 11 had just finished mentioning before verse 40) "which had been kept a mystery in ages past" Romans 16, "until the faith came we were all kept under the Law" (Nicodemus was kept under Law not partaking of the faith for that was yet hidden) Galatians 3.
Now, to me, respectfully, this desire to qualify Nicodemus as having been "born from above" is an iteration of the well-intentioned, but still, unfortunately, skewed reading of "the carnal man does not accept the things of God because they are folly to him" 1 Corinthians 2:14.
People who misstep and lump
everything God says together in one do so because they are accidentally extracting and isolating this one statement and precept
out of context : Paul's statement to the Corinthians was that he could not speak with
them as spiritual men 1 Corinthians 3:1, sharing spiritual wisdom 1 Corinthians 2:6, but only as to carnal men, sharing only the basics of the Gospel (milk). To reiterate, "carnal men" (his audience)
can only understand the basics of the Gospel (milk), which is in a separate class of revelation than
spiritual wisdom shared among the
mature and
spiritual which is folly to carnal men, which precludes him from sharing it with people who are certifiably born again on Corinth, but who are carnal and not spiritual, and so only able to hear the basics of the Gospel 1 Corinthians 2:6 - 1 Corinthians 3:1--basics of the Gospel are intelligible to carnal men, only spiritual wisdom, which is a different class of revelation (meat), is not intelligible to them.
There is, in my view, therefore, no such insinuation here that Nicodemus is being taught "You are born of God--that's the only reason you can even
understand/believe"--Paul doesn't teach that (neither does John : "Whoever confesses Jesus is the Christ has been born of God" (para) is one of the many "tests" John is putting forth which claimants--
physical or
spiritual (physical beings
contain spirits)-of godliness are to be subjected to).
3. I stand by my 'Scripture interpreting Scripture' stance previously expressed : "'...rivers of living
water shall flow from his belly' (this He spake of the
Spirit...)". The water spoken of here either
is the Spirit or
is closely associated with the Spirit (could be "... water of the Word... " and "born of incorruptible Seed" "the Seed is the Word of God")--one thing it is
not referring to, in my view, is
amniotic fluid (another thing would be
baptismal water--
water isn't "pregnant" with
anything (that is madness), and, so, doesn't "give birth" to anything (let alone "a new creation")).
