Bible Study: The Gospel is in the Torah

[Lizbeth]

God sees all...future, past. For Him, everything is already determined. But we have no agency to do that. We don't know what we will be......that's why the wise fear and tremble. It's one thing to be saved...but quite another to be saved as a vessel of honour (as opposed to being a vessel of dishonour and shame)

To call something that isn't as if it is a presumptuous sin...a lie. David wanted to be saved from such...even as he experienced God's blessings and His touch. Learning humility and the fear of the Lord PRESERVES the blessings we have been given...and opens the possibility for more.

When one experiences both the goodness and severity of God, one trembles.

I agree with the fear of the Lord, but it is a spiritual fear, a holy fear, not carnal. Kind of like the peace that sometimes or in some ways passes understanding.

It's precisely because He doesn't lie that we need to accept what He says about us. He is not a liar for no longer "counting" or "reckoning" our sins against us as if we never sinned, even though we actually did sin. He is not a liar for laying the sins of the world upon His sinless Son.....imputing our sins to His Son....likewise He is not a liar for laying (imputing) His Son's righteousness upon His spiritual children while we were yet sinners.

God calls us a new creation, a new man........these things are by faith....we need to BELIEVE Him.

 

[Episkopos]

I agree with the fear of the Lord, but it is a spiritual fear, a holy fear, not carnal. Kind of like the peace that sometimes or in some ways passes understanding.

It's precisely because He doesn't lie that we need to accept what He says about us. He is not a liar for no longer "counting" or "reckoning" our sins against us as if we never sinned, even though we actually did sin. He is not a liar for laying the sins of the world upon His sinless Son.....imputing our sins to His Son....likewise He is not a liar for laying (imputing) His Son's righteousness upon His spiritual children while we were yet sinners.

OH my....I can't begin to describe how rife with error this is...

To accept what He says about us? To accept what Jesus says about us would be to admit to being poor, naked, blind and wretched. Spiritually speaking of course.

 

[Lizbeth]

Amen. There is a form of "neo-Pharisaism" that arrogantly proclaims virtue that isn't really there. It's the other side of the "God calls things that are not" coin. Only in some cases it's not God who is doing the calling but the flesh of man.

Lam 3:37 Who is he that saith and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not?

It's always wise to keep a humble attitude and bow our head instead of saying" I thank God I am not as other men"

Lk 18:10-14
Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased. Our new covenant doesn't exempt us from this.

Amen, we need the humility and honesty to know the difference between what is being imputed to us and what still needs to be "worked out" of that, as we "work out" our salvation in the fear of the Lord. It's only as we start growing and maturing that we begin to see that gap by the light of the Lord, as He illuminates. This is what intimacy with the Lord is about.....allowing Him access to see our warts and wrinkles so that He can help us deal with them, as we learn to trust Him more.

 

[Lizbeth]

OH my....I can't begin to describe how rife with error this is...

To accept what He says about us? To accept what Jesus says about us would be to admit to being poor, naked, blind and wretched. Spiritually speaking of course.

Those He spews out of His body will no longer have His righteousness imputed to them, unless they repent. That would mean He is no longer calling them righteous, but poor, blind and naked. I don't subscribe to OSAS.

 

[Lizbeth]

Of course there is...but that's not what is the "new" in the New Covenant.


Not a better forgiveness....but a better holiness. Not just being set apart in order to get used to being different...but the real reason for the training...to be holy since God is holy.

The law is a gauge that shows us what kind of walk we are in. Do we covet? Then we are still under the law.

No we are not "under" the Law, having been freed from its curse. Scripture says Law is "good if it is used properly", ie, in the new way of the Spirit.....it is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. In other words the Law is useful to show us where we still fall short, like a mirror.......but that doesn't mean we are "under" it.

 

[Episkopos]

No we are not "under" the Law, having been freed from its curse. Scripture says Law is "good if it is used properly", ie, in the new way of the Spirit.....it is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. In other words the Law is useful to show us where we still fall short, like a mirror.......but that doesn't mean we are "under" it.

The law is meant to show sin in sinners. How do you figure we are no longer under the curse of the law? The soul that sins it shall die. The wages of sin is death. This has never changed. Only those who enter INTO Christ are under grace...a new law...a SECOND law. A law that FREES us from the old law. Like the law of flight overcomes the law of gravity. Did ancient humanity know about the law of flight? The OTHER law that can cause men to fly like birds? No...it is a more recent discovery and adaptation. Likewise, the gospel declares a new law...the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. A second law. Of course many here have never hears of such a law...and deny the power of flight over gravity. That is just unbelief.

This is why it's important to understand what the gospel is. It is the POWER of a new kind of life...resurrection life in the Spirit...without sin. So if a person is walking in the perfection of Christ by the Spirit the law can still remain intact...the wages of sin is still death.

But the false modern gospel has to TAKE AWAY from the truth in order to make an invented ideology stand...that is...for certain people the wages of sin is no longer death. That is what cheap grace is about.

But real grace doesn't alter the law...it fulfills it. Otherwise we become lawless and will be rejected as such by the Lord.

And it isn't the law that instructs us in righteousness it is the whole Hebrew bible...the scriptures. The OT is about righteousness and the NT is about holiness. And this is mainly ignored and obfuscated by pretenders who want their cake and eat it too.

 

[Lizbeth]

The law is meant to show sin in sinners. How do you figure we are no longer under the curse of the law? The soul that sins it shall die. The wages of sin is death. This has never changed. Only those who enter INTO Christ are under grace...a new law...a SECOND law. A law that FREES us from the old law. Like the law of flight overcomes the law of gravity. Did ancient humanity know about the law of flight? The OTHER law that can cause men to fly like birds? No...it is a more recent discovery and adaptation. Likewise, the gospel declares a new law...the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. A second law. Of course many here have never hears of such a law...and deny the power of flight over gravity. That is just unbelief.

This is why it's important to understand what the gospel is. It is the POWER of a new kind of life...resurrection life in the Spirit...without sin. So if a person is walking in the perfection of Christ by the Spirit the law can still remain intact...the wages of sin is still death.

But the false modern gospel has to TAKE AWAY from the truth in order to make an invented ideology stand...that is...for certain people the wages of sin is no longer death. That is what cheap grace is about.

But real grace doesn't alter the law...it fulfills it. Otherwise we become lawless and will be rejected as such by the Lord.

And it isn't the law that instructs us in righteousness it is the whole Hebrew bible...the scriptures. The OT is about righteousness and the NT is about holiness. And this is mainly ignored and obfuscated by pretenders who want their cake and eat it too.

There is a difference between willful sins and inadvertent sins......"If I do that which I would not, it is no longer I who sin, but sin living in me". There is grace for inadvertent sins.........but there is no more sacrifice for sins if we keep on wilfully sinning. We are not being judged by the letter.

 

[Behold]

God sees all...future, past. For Him, everything is already determined.

Your Hyper Calvinism is up and running again, and thats never good.

Listen......everythig is not "determined"....... as this is predestination hyper-calvinism nonsense.
For example, God never pre-determind that you would publically teach false theology and a cursed Gospel.
You chose this ministry for yourself.

Now, What God has is "FORE-KNOWLEDGE".......and that is not pre-determinism, as lying Calvinists try to pretend.

"God's Fore-knowledge" simply means that God knows what is going to happen NEXT......= before it happens.
That is not God causing it....that is God KNOWING what is going To Happen, NEXT.......all the time.

See the thing about Calvin, is he didnt understand that "KNOWING".. ."Fore-KNOWING"......is not the same as PRE-Destining".
Calvin falsely redefined "foreknowledge" as "Pre-destined" and that is the core demonic ROT of his Theology.
So, in his confusion...He created a false theology, that teaches falsely that God's Fore-Knowledge means that God is causing it all., and of course if that was true then God would be causing people to murder, rape, lie, cheat, and learn false theology and teach it.
See, if God pre-destined everything, as Hyper Calvinists teach, then God would be causing humans to SIN and break His own law and commandments.

See how Crazy is "Pre-destination theology"?
Its Nuts, and those who teach it are exactly the same.

But we have no agency to do that. We don't know what we will be......that's why the wise fear and tremble. It's one thing to be saved...but quite another to be saved as a vessel of honour (as opposed to being a vessel of dishonour and shame)

You teach a Gospel that is Cursed .. (Galatians 1:8)...while you curse the Real one by denying it.. .so, that is definitely how to behave as a "vessel of dishonor and shame"... @Episkopos
You've mastered it, as your ministry.

To call something that isn't as if it is a presumptuous sin

You are definitely not a real bible student.
You are so obvioulsy one of those terribley misguided people who has spent years studying false theology,.. = man made, outside of the Holy Bible.

Listen, Jesus Himself told us.......to "call those things that be not as tho they were"...

This is speaking your FAITH.

This is = getting a prayer answered......@Bible 101

Also, FAITH itself is """the substance of things HOPED FOR..""

One of the issues that most Christians have is that they speak their doubt, and not their faith.

 

[Behold]

..to be holy since God is holy.

Holiness is a Fruit of the Spirit.

Its a product of imputed righteousness.

Holiness is not the root, its the fruit.
God's Grace is the Root.

 

[Behold]

How do you figure we are no longer under the curse of the law?

You are obviously not a NT student., while you claim to be a minister and saved for a while now.


Listen, Paul teaches that the born again are "not under the Law but under Grace".

Did you never read a NT?.

Did you never read this......>>"The Law came by MOSES, but GRACE AND TRUTH came by JESUS">.

And here's more...

1.) "Christ has redeemed (the born again) from the CURSE OF THE LAW"..

2.) "Christ is the END OF THE LAW... for RIGHTEOUSNESS"... because God's Righteousness is not of the Law......its 'imputed" according to God's Grace.

A.) Bible 101 = Paul's doctrine. @Episkopos

 

[Behold]

So if a person is walking in the perfection of Christ by the Spirit the law can still remain intact...the wages of sin is still death.

Listen........The born again are """not under the law"""......and only the LAW can define SIN.

Listen., The born again has "passed from death.....to Life"..........so this means there is no "DEATH" for them, regarding the "" wages of Sin."""

Listen.....>"God hath made JESUS.....to be sin for US"

= "US"... the Born Again CHRISTIAN.. = everyone who is forgiven all their SIN, and has received "imputed righteousness".......that is "The RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD>.. IN CHRIST">...= and every Christian is "IN CHRIST".

 

[Behold]

But the false modern gospel has to TAKE AWAY from the truth

Try to define your concept : "the modern false gospel" and post it... and show these Christians just how deep is your Cross rejecting heresy,.

Let me get you started @Episkopos, by quoting some of your "doctrine"..

1.) Paul's Gospel is "delusion"..

2.) and : "The Cross is not about Forgiveness"

3.) and : the "new covenant (Jesus's blood sacrifice) is not about Salvation".

4.) """God does not give anyone His righteousness.""

 

[Behold]

But real grace doesn't alter the law...it fulfills it. Otherwise we become lawless and will be rejected as such by the Lord.

Post a verse that says that a "christian can become Lawless and will be rejected by Jesus The Lord".

 

[Behold]

The OT is about righteousness and the NT is about holiness.

Salvation is to be forgiven all sin, and given "The Gift of Righteousness".....followed by being born again by the Holy Spirit of God, into God Himself as "ONE with God". = "reconciled to God"... and every Christian is in the """ministry of reconciliation"

2 Corin 5:19



So, the end purpose of that, is what the NT is "all about".

A.) Being Reconciled to God, as this is the fruit of the New Covenant, that is the NT.

 

[Episkopos]

Post a verse that says that a "christian can become Lawless and will be rejected by Jesus The Lord".

And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ Matt. 7:23

 

[Behold]

And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ Matt. 7:23

Take note of all this @Episkopos

1.) No one is a Christian in your verse, as Christianity stared when Jesus died for your sin, and He had not died on the Cross yet, in your Verse.

2.) Notice the phrase....>"i never knew you"......... So, is it possible to be "In Christ", and Christ not know you?

No its not possible, so, Jesus is not talking to Christians in your verse as He would be LYING to say that He does not "KNOW" a Christian when Christ is in them.......they are the "Temple of the Holy Spirit". "Christ IN YOU, the Hope of Glory".

So, Jesus is talking to people He "does not KNOW">....and that means He is not their Savior.......They are not Christians........so, they are under the law, they are unbelievers..... and they are going to Hell. = (Depart).

There are no Christians found in Hell.
There are no unbelievers, never born again found in Heaven,

 

[ProDeo]

And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ Matt. 7:23

In context :

Matt 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
Matt 7:16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Matt 7:17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit.
Matt 7:18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit.
Matt 7:19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Matt 7:20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
Matt 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Matt 7:22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
Matt 7:23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Whenever I read this passage and especially v22 it reminds of these television preachers making a religious entertainment show using the name of Jesus increasing their bank accounts. Verse 23 (in context) does not remind me of the people participating in this thread.

 

[Behold]

Whenever I read this passage and especially v22 it reminds of these television preachers making a religious entertainment show using the name of Jesus increasing their bank accounts. Verse 23 (in context) does not remind me of the people participating in this thread.

So, you believe that becasue nearly everyone on the Forum has identified themselves as "Christian", then it must be true.

Guess again.

"Behold are you saying that The Devil's ministers as Identified by Paul, are actually REAL"...and can be found in Pulpits, and in commentaries, and in Youtube videos...and on "christian forums" and also have webpages?

A.) Yes.

"well Behold, how to you recognize them"...... ?????????????????????????????????????

Easy.
Just take note of How they explain Salvation.

1.) Do they try to present it as you doing works?

2) Do they NEVER TALK ABOUT THE CROSS of Christ, unless its postined out that there is no Cross of Christ in their Gospel,.. and once you point this out they suddenly start talking about for about 2 posts... it to fool the religious kiddies and then they never talk about it again, unless its pointed out again..??????

3.) Is their Gospel......."God's Gift of Salvation".......without LAW, or Commandment Keepsing, or WORKS or water baptism ???? As Paul teaches

4.) Do they deny Paul's 'imputed righteosness" Theology?

5.) Do they teach that "not every Christiand goes to heaven", or "not every Christian is Born again".

6.) Do they teach that its on YOU to end up in Heaven, and here is how YOU are do DO righteousness to earn it?

7.) Do they teach that a Christian is still under the law, or that you are saved so that you can go and keep the law?

I can list a lot more "proofs" that a person has not been redeemed by Jesus's Blood, and i have some THREADs on this very forum that dig deep and teach you how to "spot the heretics" "how to spot a DARK LIGHT"........ but, its just as easy to let them keep proving it.

Reader, the Devil's ministers, as Paul teaches.. "teach rightousness by self effort".....vs "The Gift of Righteouesness".

They teach a "FORM of Godliness".......that "denies the power, thereof"....>>Paul Teaches.

They teach SELF Righteousness.........doing Righteouness...............vs, "God Gift of Righteousness" that is God's Salvation.

They read.......""""""For I am not ashamed of the GOSPEL, for it is the POWER OF GOD unto SALVATION to everyone who believes"", and they say,

= "oh, that Modern Gospel"....It's false, its Delusion....its someone claiming what they can't have"....

 

[Episkopos]

They read.......""""""For I am not ashamed of the GOSPEL, for it is the POWER OF GOD unto SALVATION to everyone who believes"", and they say,

Today's modern gospel would read...For I am not ashamed (as I should be) of the (modern) GOSPEL, the BELIEF in God unto salvation to everyone who conforms to an ideology that denies the power)

 

[Behold]

Today's modern gospel would read...For I am not ashamed (as I should be) of the (modern) GOSPEL, the BELIEF in God unto salvation to everyone who conforms to an ideology that denies the power)

It took you hours to come up with that confusion?

So, let me slightly dissect what you posted for you, as perhaps there are members who will find this post and become enlightened.

If i teach you that you must "do righteousness"........of yourself.......to go to heaven, ......then i have just denied The Cross, as "the power of God unto Salvation". I have just denied the Gospel... I have just committed blasphemy.
If i teach you , as the Gospel.... anything other then "God's Gift of Righteousness" being "imputed"., then i am denying God's rightesouenss, completely.........Because....I have just replaced the True Gospel with a HERESY Gospel = "doing", vs "believing.......and God Salvaiton is completely FAITH gained and Faith based..."and not by works or by the Law"