Bible Study: The Gospel is in the Torah

[GracePeace]

You should try reading it instead of pretending you respect the bible. You worship a book but you are far from knowing anything about its AUTHOR.

I figure the guy does love God, based on what he says, but I don't really entangle myself, because, in my experience, there's no possibility of a fruitful exchange in terms of specific ideas or words, though I think he does have the spirit of it right (he does say both faith and works are necessary).

 

[GracePeace]

The righteousness of God is found in Christ. The key words are IN HIM. In Him is no sin. In Him we walk in resurrection life above sin. The only way INTO Christ is by faith...unlike the righteousness that God can impute TO US which is imperfect and can be declared either by faith OR works.

That is what is taught in the bible.

Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

When we enter into Christ we walk in His faith, His perfection, His holiness, His righteousness....the higher walk in the Spirit.

In our own faith we can do nothing impossible. (Without Me you can do nothing) God can still impute righteousness to us (as a human righteousness) whether by faith or by works. But to enter into the resurrection life of Christ ONLY faith will do...and only the faith OF Christ has us BE WHERE HE IS.

The problem here is that people are claiming to walk in the Spirit by their own faith or beliefs...based on naming and claiming certain bible verses for themselves (self-justification) while ignoring all the verses that actually describe what they are really doing.

In my experience, God being one's righteousness is one's knowing God for oneself, and one's revealing of that God he knows, saving the lost and edifying the saved, through one's words and deeds--"this grace in which we stand and rejoice in hope of God's glory [through our righteous works performed "not under Law but under Grace"--"that men may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven"]"--so that "God will be all in all" and "the knowledge of the glory of God will cover the earth as the waters cover the seas", and "He must increase, I must decrease".

Though it is true of those who believe, because Christ is entered into by grace through faith alone (the proof you abide in Him is that you receive His Spirit 1 Jn 3:24, and that is by obeying His command, to believen the Name of God's Son and love one another 1 Jn 3:23, and Cornelius, for instance, received the Spirit upon hearing with faith, proving he was keeping God's command, and was therefore abiding), it's not meant to be merely stated, it is meant to describe the lifestyle, "if we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit". Nowhere, in Galatians, does Paul say "faith alone", but "if you began by the Spirit, are you being perfected by the flesh?" and "faith working by love" and "serve one another by love", and that that is "sowing to the Spirit" so that they will reap eternal life from the Spirit. The issue was whether they were working with full persuasion of God's love working conviction in their heart, "as unto the Lord" (Ro 14:5), or whether they had retreated from the presence of the Lord (1 Jn 2:28), and were laboring under their own power, outside of His presence, thus not in faith, thus not under Grace, not in newness of the Spirit, thus not sowing to the Spirit, thus not resulting in eternal life, because their deeds were not authored by the Spirit of Christ.

 

[marks]

The issue was whether they were working with full persuasion of God's love working conviction in their heart, "as unto the Lord" (Ro 14:5), or whether they had retreated from the presence of the Lord (1 Jn 2:28), and were laboring under their own power, outside of His presence, thus not in faith, thus not under Grace, not in newness of the Spirit, thus not sowing to the Spirit, because their deeds were not authored by the Spirit of Christ.

Great post!

I'd like to add the text you referenced,

1 John 2:28 KJV
And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

And add to it this,

1 John 3:18-24 KJV
18) My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19) And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20) For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21) Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
22) And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23) And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24) And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

To say that the evidence that we have a true saving faith is our love for others. If we have genuine love for others, we will act in love towards others, which I consider to be sacrificing myself for their wellbeing in all regards.

To the extent that we are living in love for others, we will have that confidence from our faith in Jesus, nothing impeding us. There won't be any need to force ourselves, because our love for others will direct us to meet their need.

Of course, while we are yet maturing in love, there is a time and place to force ourselves to do what we know we ought but do not want to do.

Much love!

 

[GracePeace]

"this grace in which we stand and rejoice in hope of God's glory [through our righteous works performed "not under Law but under Grace"--"that men may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven"]"

Even though I affirm this "on paper", this stands in contrast to my mentality, which is imperfect, which is "I had better do good, or else--if I don't do good, I will get in trouble"--Paul seems to speak about the mere prospect of doing good as a source of joy and hope, not dread, like me, because he is sure he by grace will do it and God will get glory. How can he be so sure?

 

[GracePeace]

Great post!

I'd like to add the text you referenced,

1 John 2:28 KJV
And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

And add to it this,

1 John 3:18-24 KJV
18) My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19) And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20) For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21) Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
22) And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23) And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24) And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

To say that the evidence that we have a true saving faith is our love for others. If we have genuine love for others, we will act in love towards others, which I consider to be sacrificing myself for their wellbeing in all regards.

To the extent that we are living in love for others, we will have that confidence from our faith in Jesus, nothing impeding us. There won't be any need to force ourselves, because our love for others will direct us to meet their need.

Of course, while we are yet maturing in love, there is a time and place to force ourselves to do what we know we ought but do not want to do.

Much love!

Yeah, people quote "perfect love casts out fear", but "the one who keeps His commands is perfect in love", so, yeah, I guess if you're perfectly keeping His commands you won't fear. LOL

 

[marks]

Yeah, people quote "perfect love casts out fear", but "the one who keeps His commands is perfect in love", so, yeah, I guess if you're perfectly keeping His commands you won't fear. LOL

Yes, this is the goal for each of us I think. That we trust Jesus so much our actions are fully guided by His intent for us. I think you referenced the Galatian's passage, faith expressed by love, and by love serve one another.

Much love!

 

[GracePeace]

Yes, this is the goal for each of us I think. That we trust Jesus so much our actions are fully guided by His intent for us. I think you referenced the Galatian's passage, faith expressed by love, and by love serve one another.

Much love!

Yeah, I think Paul is getting after them for not walking in grace and faith--but there are variations of not walking in grace and faith. One variation would be Romans 14:23, where the guy has faith, but goes against it, but another variation is the Galatians, who were doing "good deeds" but it wasn't issuing from (the Spirit of) Grace. (Both of these constitute failures to abide in and reveal God's righteousness from faith to faith (Ro 1:17), leading to condemnation, not justification.)
Why?
Their good deeds issued from the flesh, because they were under Law, and the Law pertains to the flesh ("the Law, weakened through the flesh" Ro 8:3), whereas Grace pertains to Christ. The Law makes you look at self, leading inexorably to self's glory, but Grace makes you look at Christ, leading inexorably to God's glory ("so that no flesh may boast in His presence").
I'm guessing "Grace" has a "What God is doing" dimension to it--"you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands", etc. Law is flesh's deeds-focused, Grace is God's-deeds focused, and carrying through with Grace is therefore a revelation of God's deeds, fulfilling "that we might be God's righteousness in Him".
Walking in love is, by my understanding, by walking in your convictions/faith (produced by God's love in your relationship with Him) is abiding in Christ/"God ["God is love"] Is Our Righteousness" (Jer 23:6), thus maintaining that position of abiding where the eternal life is (1 Jn 5:10), thus "justifying" Paul's Galatians 6:6-10 and Romans 14:23 (in light of 1 Jn 3:23,24).

 

[Marvelloustime]

View attachment 70903

@amigo de christo

 

[Episkopos]

I figure the guy does love God, based on what he says, but I don't really entangle myself, because, in my experience, there's no possibility of a fruitful exchange in terms of specific ideas or words, though I think he does have the spirit of it right (he does say both faith and works are necessary).

It's all imagination...and self-justification. The condemnation he shows towards me and others is based on his own refusal to repent.

People who read the bible to save themselves only appear to love God. What they love is what they think God will do for them because of a shallow lip-service. When it comes to an actual encounter with the truth, the fangs come out.

Fully reprobate.

 

[GracePeace]

It's all imagination...and self-justification. The condemnation he shows towards me and others is based on his own refusal to repent.

People who read the bible to save themselves only appear to love God. What they love is what they think God will do for them because of a shallow lip-service. When it comes to an actual encounter with the truth, the fangs come out.

Fully reprobate.

I didn't realize he was condemning you. I honestly don't understand him. I've seen him, I think, say "faith alone", and, also, "faith plus works". I don't think English is his first language, so, in some of those cases, I don't press issues, because the subject matter is already difficult enough (not to mention human frailties that fight against the already-difficult-to-understand-truth being discussed) without having to deal with a language barrier.

I've tried discussing with him before, and he's one of these people who are incapable of giving a straight answer, staying on topic (he ranges all over the place, touching upon endless irrelevant points), so I just don't have it in me to press in such cases most of the time anymore.

I hope he's not reprobate.

 

[ProDeo]

It's all imagination...and self-justification. The condemnation he shows towards me and others is based on his own refusal to repent.

People who read the bible to save themselves only appear to love God. What they love is what they think God will do for them because of a shallow lip-service. When it comes to an actual encounter with the truth, the fangs come out.

Fully reprobate.

Just when I thought the thread could not be worse, you managed.

A blood bath while your video was good.

Bye Epi.

 

[Episkopos]

Just when I thought the thread could not be worse, you managed.

A blood bath while your video was good.

Bye Epi.

If you think a little truth is a bloodbath, what will you consider judgment day to be?

If the footmen tired you, how will you contend with horses?

 

[Marvelloustime]

And there is only one way to BE MADE RIGHTEOUS , even made the righteousness of GOD .
And as i noticed you wrote , ITS THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN CHRIST JESUS . that is THE GIFT OF GOD .
Lest EPI repents , make not mistake , YES YOU TOO , make no mistake
HE GONNA wail so loud on the day of the LORD for HE did what HE DID and HE taught what HE taught
IN JESUS NAME . JESUS was denied by men who even used HIS NAME . that has to be the WORST .
Though its gonna be harsh for all who rejected HIM .
Those cloaked in wool who did the work of darkness , using the LOVELY NAME of JESUS to do their work
OH DEAR , need i say more , OH DEAR that is greater damantion my friend .
GOD has never been for those WHO USED HIS NAME to do evil . IN fact it was the worst place to be .
SO on that note , MAY ALL WHO NAME THE NAME OF JESUS ALSO DEPART from satans ecumenical move .

@amigo de christo

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jesus's Name is "God Is Our Righteousness". Abiding in Him ("if that which you heard from the beginning abides in you"), it seems, God Himself is our righteousness.

Therefore, I disagree that God's righteousness is imputed to us.

That said, where we differ is the idea that abiding in Him is a static reality--but we've had that discussion.

ahh

so you plan on standing in front of God based on your own righteousness..

Good luck with that

 

[Episkopos]

ahh

so you plan on standing in front of God based on your own righteousness..

Good luck with that

And you have the arrogance to stand before God and claim to have HIS righteousness. Laughable.

 

[amigo de christo]

@amigo de christo
View attachment 70943

Sister is spotted . Keep on with the scriptures sister

 

[amigo de christo]

I figure the guy does love God, based on what he says, but I don't really entangle myself, because, in my experience, there's no possibility of a fruitful exchange in terms of specific ideas or words, though I think he does have the spirit of it right (he does say both faith and works are necessary).

Stay alert and let us be refreshed daily and in scripture readings which remind us
of the pure way which Christ and the apostels had taught .
Remember its all about Faith in CHRIST . Never let anyone try and make it seem
as if its not necessary to Have had to Believe on Christ JESUS .
The proof of a true conversion is they DO confess JESUS the CHRIST
and their works do follow them . IN other words
If it is lip only and the fruits , the works be absent , ITS lip only my friend .
Faith without works is dead
But works without faith in Christ , JUST AS DEAD .
No man Who is HIS would deny HE is CHRIST , that GOD did raise HIM from the dead
SO , dont let any one fool you with what is known as inclusivism .
Which states A truth that JESUS IS the savoir of the world
but then implies it matters not if one beleives or dont beleive .
That is a lie . For those who are of GOD would have heard and believed The gospel of Christ .
Those who are of GOD hear us , aka the gospel of beleive in JESUS CHRIST .
So no matter how well one can use truths
IF they omit the fact one MUST FIRST BELIEVE to be saved . THEY LIE and present another gospel to us .
Those who are CHRISTS , have been sealed with that SPIRIT of PROMISE
and thus GOD works in them that which is well pleasing in HIS sight .
THEY have confessed JESUS CHRIST and by the SPIRIT , HE works in them and through them that which is pleasing
to HIM . And we must remind and exhort one another daily to do the good and to flee the appearance of that which is evil .
Do not let epi trick you . HE can say a lot of truths
But i will show you where he has railed on me for saying YE MUST FIRST BELIEVE ON JESUS the CHRIST
or it is all in vain . That is deadly dangerous my friend .

 

[Lizbeth]

The righteousness of God is found in Christ. The key words are IN HIM. In Him is no sin. In Him we walk in resurrection life above sin. The only way INTO Christ is by faith...unlike the righteousness that God can impute TO US which is imperfect and can be declared either by faith OR works.

That is what is taught in the bible.

Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

When we enter into Christ we walk in His faith, His perfection, His holiness, His righteousness....the higher walk in the Spirit.

In our own faith we can do nothing impossible. (Without Me you can do nothing) God can still impute righteousness to us (as a human righteousness) whether by faith or by works. But to enter into the resurrection life of Christ ONLY faith will do...and only the faith OF Christ has us BE WHERE HE IS.

The problem here is that people are claiming to walk in the Spirit by their own faith or beliefs...based on naming and claiming certain bible verses for themselves (self-justification) while ignoring all the verses that actually describe what they are really doing.

Hmmm....think we just need to understand that our new man has been born of Christ/God, His Spirit. And since it has been, it has been made in the image of He who created and gave birth to it. Just like Jesus was the express image of the Father. As John says, whoever is born of God cannot sin...that is speaking of our new man who cannot sin. Even though our old man still "has" sin....that is the body of death and why the body is dead because of sin. It is our new man who is spiritual, righteous and holy, and the Lord imputes that to "us" because He is not looking at our old man any more, so to speak. He has chosen in His great mercy, to forgive and forget as far as the east is from the west. As far as He is concerned, we have "become" a new creature, a new man. But as the bible also says the flesh (old man) lusteth against the spirit (new man) and vice versa. But when we are walking in the Spirit, the old man is put under our feet and the sons of God (new man born of God) are being revealed.. And there we have it, the gospel in a nutshell, according to the scriptures. What an indescribable gift, from our gracious heavenly Father, amen.

 

[shepherdsword]

Yeah, people quote "perfect love casts out fear", but "the one who keeps His commands is perfect in love", so, yeah, I guess if you're perfectly keeping His commands you won't fear. LOL

The one who said that fell out as dead when He saw the resurrected Christ. "Jesus had to lay hands on him and say "Fear not" I guess, in a certain sense, that was perfect love casting out all fear...lol

 

[Episkopos]

Stay alert and let us be refreshed daily and in scripture readings which remind us
of the pure way which Christ and the apostels had taught .
Remember its all about Faith in CHRIST . Never let anyone try and make it seem
as if its not necessary to Have had to Believe on Christ JESUS .
The proof of a true conversion is they DO confess JESUS the CHRIST
and their works do follow them . IN other words
If it is lip only and the fruits , the works be absent , ITS lip only my friend .
Faith without works is dead
But works without faith in Christ , JUST AS DEAD .

Not so. Your statement is unbiblical and twisted. (spotted with sin)

Sure there are dead works. But not all works apart from the Christian religion are dead.

Jesus taught a parable about a hated sinner (Samaritan) who did a good work. The Pharisees, hypocrites, saw that as scandalous and INCLUSIVIST...just like you. Now, change the word Samaritan for MUSLIM...and watch the religious pride get pricked.

Unlike you, God loves the righteous. And Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, not just for Christians.

Unlike you and other pretenders here...GOD IS MERCIFUL.

No man Who is HIS would deny HE is CHRIST , that GOD did raise HIM from the dead

Denying Christ is not the same as one who honours their parents in another form of religious belief. God doesn't care about religious beliefs. He cares about what we DO.

SO , dont let any one fool you with what is known as inclusivism .

Laughable. What hypocrites call "inclusivism", you should say. God's way is both INCLUSIVE and EXCLUSIVE. You exclude yourself whereby you could be shown mercy if you had any. As you judge...

Which states A truth that JESUS IS the savoir of the world

You deny this.

but then implies it matters not if one beleives or dont beleive .

That's your opinion. If one's beliefs changes the behaviour, then that is a good thing. Human faith has no value unless it produces good works.

That is a lie .

What do you know about lies, besides the ones you call sustenance?

For those who are of GOD would have heard and believed The gospel of Christ .
Those who are of GOD hear us , aka the gospel of beleive in JESUS CHRIST .

That is NOT the gospel. The gospel is not about beliefs. It is about the POWER of God over sin for those who enter INTO Christ by the faith OF Christ. This is so far above your understanding...instead you rely on a formulaic and dogmatic religion that has no power but to deceive.

So no matter how well one can use truths
IF they omit the fact one MUST FIRST BELIEVE to be saved . THEY LIE and present another gospel to us .

The "other gospel" is what you and the pretenders preach..a religious version of beliefs ABOUT Jesus and not the faith OF Christ.

Those who are CHRISTS , have been sealed with that SPIRIT of PROMISE
and thus GOD works in them that which is well pleasing in HIS sight .

This is true. Nice wording.

THEY have confessed JESUS CHRIST and by the SPIRIT , HE works in them and through them that which is pleasing
to HIM . And we must remind and exhort one another daily to do the good and to flee the appearance of that which is evil .

Good.

Do not let epi trick you . HE can say a lot of truths

Not a lot of truths...but THE truth. I speak the truth without religious twistings. So then it is hard for those who are unspiritual to understand....since they rely on carnal wisdom rather than the power of God.

But i will show you where he has railed on me for saying YE MUST FIRST BELIEVE ON JESUS the CHRIST

First believe for what? You make statements that have no meaning.

or it is all in vain . That is deadly dangerous my friend .

The vanity is in your virtue signalling...speaking of things that are far beyond your understanding. If you stopped judging from your own carnal understanding, then you wouldn't be condemned.