Biblical Mary

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Ronald Nolette

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Nice touchy feely give you goose bump sentiment, but has no dealing with reality!

Matt. 1:

24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

Once the time was ended after birth as called for in the Mosaic Law- Joseph and Mary did a lot of knowing each other!
 

BreadOfLife

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And you continue to bear false witness by lying through your teeth in calling me anti catholic.

REsorting to baseless ad-hominems is usually a sign one can no longer defend their position and must attack the man instead of debating civilly.

first- you need to get thicker skin man. You Romansits sure are touchy!
second- the catholic church does not believe in the sufficeincy of the blood. If it did it would not believe one can lose their salvation (which means Jesus did not pay for all your sins) or in purgatory I(which means ytou have to pay for th elittle sins)

To your finally- the judgment at 1 Cort. 3, happens after the rapture of believers. It is a different judgment altogether from the final judgment in Rev. 20.

Your second finally: Sorry but as I showed you adelphoii in th eNew Testament wnen referring to family can only mean brothers or sisters- not cousins nephews aunties uncles grandpa or grandma. All you did in your futile attempt to keep Jesus mother a virgin was show that other people in the circle of followers had those names and then try to force them on Jesus half brothers. Pathetically weak and desperate.

With teacher like you - no wonder the romanist church's is suffering so.
A Christian who rejects Catholic teaching is a Protestant.
Any person who LIES about what Catholics believe and teach in order to try to win an argument is an anti-Catholic.
YOU are the latter.

You continue to advance a FALSE narrative about Catholic teaching and using idiotic terms like "Romanism"- even AFTER you've been corrected and chastised for lying.

SO
- you are either a lying anti-Catholic - or you're just NOT very bright.
Take your pick . . .

As for the process of Final Purification outline in 1 Cor. 3:10-15, your attempt to explain it away by attaching it to some unbiblical "Rapture" fantasy was a pathetic dodge that doesn't address the points I presented in my last post.

Once again, Einstein:
- This CANNOT be Heaven because there is NO suffering in Heaven.
- This CANNOT be Hell because the person WILL BE saved.
- This is describing a THIRD state - the state of Final Purification.

If you can't address this - then you've LOST the Purgatory argument.

Finally, as to the "Adelphoi" of Jesus - you've been repeatedly schooled on this as well.
You've been given example after example where this word means something OTHER than uterine sibling (Gen. 14:14, Gen. 29:15, 1 Chr. 23:21–22).
I also showed you a Protestant study on the word, "Adelphos" that came up with the following findings:

There are 344 instances are instances where the word “Adelphos” and ALL of its variations are used in the NT.

- 41 times (12%) are cases where "Adelphos" clearly or probably refers to a family sibling.
- 47 instances (14%) are cases where "Adelphos" may or may not refer to a family sibling.
- 256 instances (74%) are cases where "Adelphos" cannot or almost certainly does NOT refer to a family sibling.

So, you already LOST this argument before you opened your mouth . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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I do and did. You just look at that woman and with a romanist mindset make a huge assumptive leap to call her the Queen of heaven!
You presented no evidence other than declaring the woman is Mary.
But you failed to provide answers that concern the woman.


Revelation 12
King James Version

12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

1. You failed to say when satan sent an army (flood) after Mary.
2. You failed to say when Mary fled into the wilderness for 3 1/2 years
3. YOu failed to identify the earth which overcame the military assault on Mary.
4. You failed to identofy the remnant of the seed of Mary- She is supposed to have no seed after Jesus. They can't be Israel for that seed was long before Mary, and it can't be the church for we are the seed of God not Mary.
5. so Mary has some unidentified seed that you seem to have no clue who they are!
But from Gen. 37:
6 And he said unto them, Hear, I pray you, this dream which I have dreamed:
7 For, behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and, lo, my sheaf arose, and also stood upright; and, behold, your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf.
8 And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words.

9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?

god is very consistent and a woman symbolically always has meant a religion or peoples. and the 12 stars are the twelve children of Israel. But I will giv eyou anothyer chance (if you can stop vomiting ad-hominems) to show why we should reject the symbol the bible gives us to define this woman and accept yours!
Gee, another LIE.
What a surprise . . .

Go BACK and read post #1353, Einstein.
I guess it was the big word (polyvalent) that confused you.

The Woman symbolizes BOTH Mary AND Israel.

- The Woman gave birth to the Messiah, who will rule all nations with an iron rod.
- Mary gave birth to the Messiah, who will rule all nations with an iron rod.

- The dragon tried to devour the Woman's Son - the Messiah.
- Herod tried to kill Mary's Son - the Messiah.

- The Woman fled into the desert and remained there for a time.
- Mary fled into the desert (Egypt) and remained there for a time


YOUR problem is that in your abject ignorance - you simply don't understand Biblical Type and Fulfillment. There are NO coincidences OR accidents in the Bible. God's Word is a precise plan that fits perfectly together.
 

Ronald Nolette

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You continue to advance a FALSE narrative about Catholic teaching and using idiotic terms like "Romanism"- even AFTER you've been corrected and chastised for lying.

As long as you wish to slandert me by calling me anti catholic and not apologize for lying about me, I will continue to use the term Romanism.


SO - you are either a lying anti-Catholic - or you're just NOT very bright.

I'll take door #3. YOu are like Alicia Silverstone in one of her movies---"Clueless" about who I am.

Once again, Einstein:
- This CANNOT be Heaven because there is NO suffering in Heaven.
- This CANNOT be Hell because the person WILL BE saved.
- This is describing a THIRD state - the state of Final Purification.

If you can't address this - then you've LOST the Purgatory argument.

Well if you wish to believe Jesus did not die for all your sins and you have to pay for some of your sins- you can believe that if you wish, but it is a lie from hell that Satan uses to get peopel to focus on themselves instead of the one who died for all of our sins.

YOu need to learn the differences between the bema judgment (which is just for believers) and the thronos judgment at the end of time. And if you bothered to read Scripture you would see that it is not the believer who is judged but their works. According to Gods inspired Word (instead of the Romanistic doctrine) Jesus paid for all of our sins, and by trusting in His death and REsurrection we are forgiven. The works judged are the works done in His name as sin is no longer an issue. Do some homework and learn that a bema was a place where ajudge issued rewards. whether it be a military gathering or a sports event. then learn the six greek words translated in English as judgment and learn th edifferent nuances of judgments. But you probably won't so you fail!


There are 344 instances are instances where the word “Adelphos” and ALL of its variations are used in the NT.

- 41 times (12%) are cases where "Adelphos" clearly or probably refers to a family sibling.
- 47 instances (14%) are cases where "Adelphos" may or may not refer to a family sibling.
- 256 instances (74%) are cases where "Adelphos" cannot or almost certainly does NOT refer to a family sibling.

YOu really do get dense when you can't defend your romanistic false doctrines.

ADELPHOS:

  1. a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother

  2. having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or countryman

  3. any fellow or man

  4. a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection

  5. an associate in employment or office

  6. brethren in Christ

    1. his brothers by blood

    2. all men

    3. apostles

    4. Christians, as those who are exalted to the same heavenly place
Either you are the one not very bright or you are being intentionally deceptive. We have focused on whether the NT uses it specifically for cousins and far relations outside of immediate family. The other uses have been a given as I have posted this multiple times. sorry if you have a short attention span.
 

Ronald Nolette

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What a surprise . . .

Go BACK and read post #1353, Einstein.
I guess it was the big word (polyvalent) that confused you.

The Woman symbolizes BOTH Mary AND Israel.

- The Woman gave birth to the Messiah, who will rule all nations with an iron rod.
- Mary gave birth to the Messiah, who will rule all nations with an iron rod.

- The dragon tried to devour the Woman's Son - the Messiah.
- Herod tried to kill Mary's Son - the Messiah.

- The Woman fled into the desert and remained there for a time.
- Mary fled into the desert (Egypt) and remained there for a time


YOUR problem is that in your abject ignorance - you simply don't understand Biblical Type and Fulfillment. There are NO coincidences OR accidents in the Bible. God's Word is a precise plan that fits perfectly together.


Well maybe you should find out that Scripture does not use symbols for two different things at the same time or even different times. that is a made up piece of horse dung from the Romanists.

Funny I taugfht biblical type and fulfilment in bible College and told my students that symbols are always translated consistently and do not mean one thing in one passage and another thing in another passage as the Romanist Church contends to promulgate their false doctrine.

I can prove from Scripture that Israel is represented by the woman with twelve stars- try and do the same with your contention it also means mary.
I srael numerous times is referred to as a woman- so that symbology or type fits here.

We finally agree on on ething- Gods Word is precise that fits perfectly together- no0t as your Romanistic mindset thinks but as Gods Word shows plainly.

As for the killing- you now say the dragon =Herod? or is it both herod and Satan.

Nice try about the wilderness. but the woman flees for 3 1/2 years. You have no clue where Joseph and Mary fled to in Egypt. They could have settled in a nice city for all you and the Romanist Church knows.

But what army(flood) tried to destroy the woman?

Who are the remnant of Mary's seed?

what i AM NOW GLADLY IGNORANT OF IS THE MASSIVE REINTERPRETATION OF GODS WORD BY THE ROMANIST CHURCH TO ADVANCE THEIR FALSE DOCTRINES THAT KEEP PEOPLE FROM TH EKINGDOM IF THEY FOLLOW THEM.

Thankfully millions know the truth about salvation and though still Catholic have rejected the false doctrines that damn people to hell for eternity.
 

BreadOfLife

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As long as you wish to slandert me by calling me anti catholic and not apologize for lying about me, I will continue to use the term Romanism.
And you remain, as always - an anti-Catholic.
Well if you wish to believe Jesus did not die for all your sins and you have to pay for some of your sins- you can believe that if you wish, but it is a lie from hell that Satan uses to get peopel to focus on themselves instead of the one who died for all of our sins.

YOu need to learn the differences between the bema judgment (which is just for believers) and the thronos judgment at the end of time. And if you bothered to read Scripture you would see that it is not the believer who is judged but their works. According to Gods inspired Word (instead of the Romanistic doctrine) Jesus paid for all of our sins, and by trusting in His death and REsurrection we are forgiven. The works judged are the works done in His name as sin is no longer an issue. Do some homework and learn that a bema was a place where ajudge issued rewards. whether it be a military gathering or a sports event. then learn the six greek words translated in English as judgment and learn th edifferent nuances of judgments. But you probably won't so you fail!
Yet another foolish, anti-Catholic assessment of the BIBLICAL doctrine of Final Purification (Purgatory).

It is BECAUSE of what Jesus did on the cross that we are given the opportunity to be purified before entering Heaven.
Rev. 21:27 explicitly states that NOTHING impure or imperfect can enter Heaven.

As I have educated you MANY times now - 1 Cor. 3:10-15 shows us the process of this Final Purification - and it is ONLY for the faithful. EVERYBODY who goes through it WILL BE saved - but many will SUFFER loss beforehand.
In Heaven - there is NO SUFFERING, so this cannot be Heaven.
ADELPHOS:
  1. a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother
  2. having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or countryman
  3. any fellow or man
  4. a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection
  5. an associate in employment or office
  6. brethren in Christ
    1. his brothers by blood
    2. all men
    3. apostles
    4. Christians, as those who are exalted to the same heavenly place
Either you are the one not very bright or you are being intentionally deceptive. We have focused on whether the NT uses it specifically for cousins and far relations outside of immediate family. The other uses have been a given as I have posted this multiple times. sorry if you have a short attention span.
And yet the Word of Almighty God uses the term "Adelphos" in MANY ways.
Once AGAIN:
- In Gen. 14:14, Lot is called Abraham’s "adelphos", even though he was the nephew of Abraham (Gen. 11:26–28).

- In Gen. 29:15, Jacob is referred to as the "adelphos" of his uncle Laban.

- Brothers Kish and Eleazar were the sons of Mahli. Kish had sons of his own, but Eleazar’s daughters married their "adelphoi, the sons of Kish - who were actually their cousins (1 Chr. 23:21–22).


So - YOUR decision to place a dictionary definition OVER the Word of God speaks VOLUMES about your lack of faith in Him . . .
 

Ronald Nolette

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And you remain, as always - an anti-Catholic.

Yet another foolish, anti-Catholic assessment of the BIBLICAL doctrine of Final Purification (Purgatory).

It is BECAUSE of what Jesus did on the cross that we are given the opportunity to be purified before entering Heaven.
Rev. 21:27 explicitly states that NOTHING impure or imperfect can enter Heaven.

As I have educated you MANY times now - 1 Cor. 3:10-15 shows us the process of this Final Purification - and it is ONLY for the faithful. EVERYBODY who goes through it WILL BE saved - but many will SUFFER loss beforehand.
In Heaven - there is NO SUFFERING, so this cannot be Heaven.

And yet the Word of Almighty God uses the term "Adelphos" in MANY ways.
Once AGAIN:
- In Gen. 14:14, Lot is called Abraham’s "adelphos", even though he was the nephew of Abraham (Gen. 11:26–28).

- In Gen. 29:15, Jacob is referred to as the "adelphos" of his uncle Laban.

- Brothers Kish and Eleazar were the sons of Mahli. Kish had sons of his own, but Eleazar’s daughters married their "adelphoi, the sons of Kish - who were actually their cousins (1 Chr. 23:21–22).


So - YOUR decision to place a dictionary definition OVER the Word of God speaks VOLUMES about your lack of faith in Him . . .

Well according to Romanist false doctrine people are in purgatory now, you can pray to shorten the sentence in purgatory, and at least when I was a good little Catholic boy, things like making the sign of the cross with holy water got you a year out of purgatory! So these people are in some place in the state of suffering just like saints are in heaven and th elost are in the place of torments awaiting lake of fire.
 

Ronald Nolette

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It is BECAUSE of what Jesus did on the cross that we are given the opportunity to be purified before entering Heaven.
Rev. 21:27 explicitly states that NOTHING impure or imperfect can enter Heaven.

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

HIs death perfected me already- feel sorry for you. Purgatory is a blasphemy against the precious blood of Christ!


As I have educated you MANY times now - 1 Cor. 3:10-15 shows us the process of this Final Purification - and it is ONLY for the faithful. EVERYBODY who goes through it WILL BE saved - but many will SUFFER loss beforehand.
In Heaven - there is NO SUFFERING, so this cannot be Heaven.

Well you have failed to establish this is a state or a place. And as you call it the final purification- what are people in purgatory doing now? Having a tea party??????????????????

So - YOUR decision to place a dictionary definition OVER the Word of God speaks VOLUMES about your lack of faith in Him . .

Well I will keep my own counsel about how much or little faith I have in Jesus! And this is a patheitic dunghole of a distraction answer. You trust in dictionaries. YOu are not a native Hebrew or Koine Greek speaker so you are just showing your own hypocrisy.
 

BreadOfLife

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Well maybe you should find out that Scripture does not use symbols for two different things at the same time or even different times. that is a made up piece of horse dung from the Romanists.

Funny I taugfht biblical type and fulfilment in bible College and told my students that symbols are always translated consistently and do not mean one thing in one passage and another thing in another passage as the Romanist Church contends to promulgate their false doctrine.

I can prove from Scripture that Israel is represented by the woman with twelve stars- try and do the same with your contention it also means mary.
I srael numerous times is referred to as a woman- so that symbology or type fits here.

We finally agree on on ething- Gods Word is precise that fits perfectly together- no0t as your Romanistic mindset thinks but as Gods Word shows plainly.

As for the killing- you now say the dragon =Herod? or is it both herod and Satan.

Nice try about the wilderness. but the woman flees for 3 1/2 years. You have no clue where Joseph and Mary fled to in Egypt. They could have settled in a nice city for all you and the Romanist Church knows.

But what army(flood) tried to destroy the woman?

Who are the remnant of Mary's seed?

what i AM NOW GLADLY IGNORANT OF IS THE MASSIVE REINTERPRETATION OF GODS WORD BY THE ROMANIST CHURCH TO ADVANCE THEIR FALSE DOCTRINES THAT KEEP PEOPLE FROM TH EKINGDOM IF THEY FOLLOW THEM.

Thankfully millions know the truth about salvation and though still Catholic have rejected the false doctrines that damn people to hell for eternity.
A polyvalent symbol doesn't necessarily need to fit EVERY aspect of ALL fulfillments.

Some of the symbolism of the Woman is Mary - and some of it pertains to Israel. Many Scripture scholars - Catholic AND Protestant ALSO ascribe elements of the Woman to the Church.
 

BreadOfLife

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Well according to Romanist false doctrine people are in purgatory now, you can pray to shorten the sentence in purgatory, and at least when I was a good little Catholic boy, things like making the sign of the cross with holy water got you a year out of purgatory! So these people are in some place in the state of suffering just like saints are in heaven and th elost are in the place of torments awaiting lake of fire.
Soooo, you continue to vomit out lies like this - and you wonder WHY you are called an "anti-Catholic" . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

HIs death perfected me already- feel sorry for you. Purgatory is a blasphemy against the precious blood of Christ!
Uh-huh - and that's why you FAILED to give an exegesis of 1 Cor. 3:10-15.

And according to the verse you presented - you're not "perfected" until you are FULLY-SACTIFIED. We aren't FULLY sanctified during our lifetime. Sanctification is a lifelong process (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, 7:1, Phil. 2:12, Heb 12:14).

You're full of hot wind - but not much else . . .
Well you have failed to establish this is a state or a place. And as you call it the final purification- what are people in purgatory doing now? Having a tea party??????????????????
Because of your complete ignorance, you again fail to understand that God is NOT bound by time in Heaven (2 Pet. 3:8). Final Purification can last as long - or as short as God sees fit.
Well I will keep my own counsel about how much or little faith I have in Jesus! And this is a patheitic dunghole of a distraction answer. You trust in dictionaries. YOu are not a native Hebrew or Koine Greek speaker so you are just showing your own hypocrisy.
And yet I am FULLY aware that the Word of Almighty God uses "Adelphos" for brother, half-brother, cousin, uncle, Father in Law, relative, neighbor, fellow believer, etc.

YOU apparently aren't aware of this.
STUDY your Bible . . .
 

Ronald Nolette

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Soooo, you continue to vomit out lies like this - and you wonder WHY you are called an "anti-Catholic" . . .


Until you apologize- I can't waste precious seconds responding to your hatred and falsehoods. YOu sir bear false witness, lie, reject truth, and make false assumptions of people.

REcant or babble on without me responding anymore.
 

BreadOfLife

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Until you apologize- I can't waste precious seconds responding to your hatred and falsehoods. YOu sir bear false witness, lie, reject truth, and make false assumptions of people.

REcant or babble on without me responding anymore.
Ummmm, name ONE single "falsehood" that I have stated and I will wholeheartedly apologize .

You can't because I haven't. All I've done is expose YOUR lies - so get over it and start being honest for a change . . .
 

amigo de christo

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Sola scriptura is like going to a baseball game and suddenly all the players are umpires.
Trusting in the CC or the RCC is like going to a baseball game and all the players are football players . While they might play football well
DONT EXPECT well baseball from them . But trusting in what the bible said , now that is a foutain , a river , a ocean of beauty .
 

Marymog

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It only stands to reason that they would have partaken in all the activities that marriage holds....
Hi Addy,

In regard to Jewish and Christian teaching/practice: when a woman gives birth to a child that is an indication or it is presumed that the mother is married to the man of that child. Was Jesus the child of God or Joseph?

Mary
 

Marymog

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Trusting in the CC or the RCC is like going to a baseball game and all the players are football players . While they might play football well
DONT EXPECT well baseball from them . But trusting in what the bible said , now that is a foutain , a river , a ocean of beauty .
Hi amigo,

Could the same be said of Protestant churches? After all, they all teach different truths and all of them think they have the truth!

Who do YOU trust to reveal to you the fountain/river/ocean of beauty? You have made it clear you don't trust The Catholic Church sooooo what church do you trust?

Curious Mary