Biblical understanding of terms

[theefaith]

An absolute truth vs a biblical generalization!

a specific person vs all disciples

Jn 14:6 is absolute truth!

Matt 3:5-6 are only generalizations and not absolute!

Matt 16:17-19 refers only to Peter!

Jn19:26-27 refers to all disciples!

Ok start your protest! I’ll wait!

 

[theefaith]

Pride must protest and rebel!

The nature of pride always says no I will not serve, like the father of pride! Pride always protests and lives in rebellion!

 

[bbyrd009]

Jn 14:6 is absolute truth

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

a woman might be saved through bearing children

 

[Episkopos]

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

a woman might be saved through bearing children

It is a human thing to make mistakes. One mistake is to equate coming to the Father with being saved. Jesus is speaking the truth. But people have their own agenda. Very few want to go to the Father unless to get what THEY want.

So we see a selfish agenda in the many who study the Bible. Do we study the Bible for our own gain?.... Or to understand the ways of God?

 

[Episkopos]

There is some truth to the OP....although the references themselves are questionable if not plain wrong.

The real issues lie with claiming Paul's experiences for oneself in a dogmatic religious "wishful thinking."

These include:


---Seated in heavenly places with Christ

---Being crucified with Christ

---Claiming to no longer be alive in the carnal outer man. (dead to sin)

These claims can only become our own when we pay the same price that Paul made. Here we are speaking of a FULL measure of grace..that costs us EVERYTHING.

Being born again by the Spirit gives us a SAMPLE of God's grace AND a template that we are meant to be molded into in the image of Christ. To claim to have something that we have only received the sample of..or down-payment of...is foolish and misleading. Creating an entire religious establishment on such error is worthy of wrath from God on judgment day.

Peace :)

 

[theefaith]

There is some truth to the OP....although the references themselves are questionable.

The real issues lie with claiming Paul's experiences for oneself in a dogmatic religious "wishful thinking."

These include:


---Seated in heavenly places with Christ

---Being crucified with Christ

---Claiming to no longer be alive in the carnal outer man

These claims can only become our own when we pay the same price that Paul made. Here we are speaking of a FULL measure of grace..that costs us EVERYTHING.

Being born again by the Spirit gives us a SAMPLE of God's grace AND a template that we are meant to be molded into in the image of Christ. To claim to have something that we have only received the sample of..or down-payment of...is foolish and misleading. Creating an entire religious establishment on such error is worthy of wrath from God on judgment day.

Peace :)

what about:

Phil 4:13 I can do all things in Christ who strengthens me.

 

[Episkopos]

what about:

Phil 4:13 I can do all things in Christ who strengthens me.

That is universal...based on "with God nothing is impossible,"

No one who enters INTO Christ (abiding in Him) sins. In Him is no sin. This is based on the nature of Christ...not us. When an aircraft flies above the clouds, our being INSIDE the plane is not dependent on our own capacity for flight. Likewise IN Christ we take on His attributes. Those who claim to abide in Christ AND also sin...have not known the spiritual walk in Christ. Likewise those who claim to have never flown over the clouds can be considered to have never traveled by plane.

People squabble over dogmatic beliefs when they should be considering that most of us are spiritually dead (or at least asleep)... and in need of being awakened to life in the Spirit.

 

[theefaith]

That is universal...based on "with God nothing is impossible,"

No one who enters INTO Christ (abiding in Him) sins. In Him is no sin. This is based on the nature of Christ...not us. When an aircraft flies above the clouds, our being INSIDE the plane is not dependent on our own capacity for flight. Likewise IN Christ we take on His attributes. Those who claim to abide in Christ AND also sin...have not known the spiritual walk in Christ. Likewise those who claim to have never flown over the clouds can be considered to have never traveled by plane.

People squabble over dogmatic beliefs when they should be considering that most of us are spiritually dead (or at least asleep)... and in need of being awakened to life in the Spirit.

how do you put on Christ?

 

[Episkopos]

how do you put on Christ?

Spiritual things are spiritually discerned and experienced. The full measure of grace is by putting on Christ.

The "how" is through a full surrender of everything we have and are. We are to ask, seek, and knock, until we receive of the Lord. The parable of the kingdom whereby we sell all to "buy the field" that contains the pearl of great price tells us of the spiritual process of being further clothed with Christ.

Putting on a spacesuit allows people to walk on the moon...or take spacewalks...something that is impossible to do without the covering of a spacesuit.

Likewise...putting on Christ allows us to walk in the spiritual realm of Zion...to be where Jesus is...and have fellowship with God.

it takes faith to believe we can do all things through Christ. It takes faith to believe that with God ALL things are possible for us.

When the Son of Man returns will He find such faith on the earth?

 

[theefaith]

Spiritual things are spiritually discerned and experienced. The full measure of grace is by putting on Christ.

The "how" is through a full surrender of everything we have and are. We are to ask, seek, and knock, until we receive of the Lord. The parable of the kingdom whereby we sell all to "buy the field" that contains the pearl of great price tells us of the spiritual process of being further clothed with Christ.

Putting on a spacesuit allows people to walk on the moon...or take spacewalks...something that is impossible to do without the covering of a spacesuit.

Likewise...putting on Christ allows us to walk in the spiritual realm of Zion...to be where Jesus is...and have fellowship with God.

it takes faith to believe we can do all things through Christ. It takes faith to believe that with God ALL things are possible for us.

When the Son of Man returns will He find such faith on the earth?

Not biblical! Those who SAY Lord Lord, but those who do the will of God!

ez 36:25-27
Mk 16:16
Jn 3:5
Acts 2:38-39
Acts 8:36-38
Acts 22:16
1 cor 12:13
Gal 3:27
1 pet 3:20-21

gal 3:27
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.


Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!



Effects of baptism!

Faith and baptism accomplish justification
With these effects:
born again Jn 3:5
New creation in Christ 2 cor 5:17
Passed from death to life 2 Tim 1:10
Out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light 1 pet 2:9
All sins (original and personal) washed away acts 22:16
Washed in Christ’s blood 1 pet 1:2
Member of Christ and His church
1 cor 12:13
Put on Christ gal 3:27
Died with Christ rom 6:3
Risen with Christ col 2:12
Sealed by God in the ark of salvation 1 pet 3:20-21
Sealed with the Holy Spirit eph 1:13
And none by “faith alone”!

 

[Episkopos]

Not biblical! Those who SAY Lord Lord, but those who do the will of God!

ez 36:25-27
Mk 16:16
Jn 3:5
Acts 2:38-39
Acts 8:36-38
Acts 22:16
1 cor 12:13
Gal 3:27
1 pet 3:20-21

gal 3:27
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.


Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!



Effects of baptism!

Faith and baptism accomplish justification
With these effects:
born again Jn 3:5
New creation in Christ 2 cor 5:17
Passed from death to life 2 Tim 1:10
Out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light 1 pet 2:9
All sins (original and personal) washed away acts 22:16
Washed in Christ’s blood 1 pet 1:2
Member of Christ and His church
1 cor 12:13
Put on Christ gal 3:27
Died with Christ rom 6:3
Risen with Christ col 2:12
Sealed by God in the ark of salvation 1 pet 3:20-21
Sealed with the Holy Spirit eph 1:13
And none by “faith alone”!

You can't compare superficial religious traditions with the depth and scale of God's words. You don't understand spiritual things....rather you are indoctrinated into a religious tradition from men. I was born Catholic...and I maintained that tradition until I met the Lord. Then my understanding shifted from my previous religious conditioning to an actual eternal spiritual understanding as I was ACTUALLY baptized INTO Christ.

Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Rom 6:3

Not everyone who is baptized in water is also baptized INTO Christ. You are assuming that a child who is sprinkled with magic water experiences the death of Christ by a separation of the sin nature from the inner man.

Your mind is tunneling your current understanding...which could be replaced with a book on the tenets of Catholicism. You can't talk to a program...so I am not going to speak with your own "programming." These sites are good for dialogue...but you are only interested in religious conditioning. Marx would be proud.

 

[Robert Gwin]

An absolute truth vs a biblical generalization!

a specific person vs all disciples

Jn 14:6 is absolute truth!

Matt 3:5-6 are only generalizations and not absolute!

Matt 16:17-19 refers only to Peter!

Jn19:26-27 refers to all disciples!

Ok start your protest! I’ll wait!

You might find this interesting Faith:
Jesus does not give Peter first place among the apostles, nor does Jesus make him the foundation of the congregation. Jesus himself is the Rock upon which his congregation will be built. (1 Corinthians 3:11; Ephesians 2:20) Peter, though, is to receive three keys. He will have the privilege of opening, as it were, the opportunity for groups of people to enter the Kingdom of the heavens.
Peter would use the first key at Pentecost 33 C.E., showing repentant Jews and proselytes what they must do to be saved. He would use the second to open to believing Samaritans the opportunity to enter God’s Kingdom. Then, in 36 C.E., Peter would use the third to extend that opportunity to uncircumcised Gentiles, Cornelius and others.—Acts 2:37, 38; 8:14-17; 10:44-48.

 

[theefaith]

You can't compare superficial religious traditions with the depth and scale of God's words. You don't understand spiritual things....rather you are indoctrinated into a religious tradition from men. I was born Catholic...and I maintained that tradition until I met the Lord. Then my understanding shifted from my previous religious conditioning to an actual eternal spiritual understanding as I was ACTUALLY baptized INTO Christ.

Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Rom 6:3

Not everyone who is baptized in water is also baptized INTO Christ. You are assuming that a child who is sprinkled with magic water experiences the death of Christ by a separation of the sin nature from the inner man.

Your mind is tunneling your current understanding...which could be replaced with a book on the tenets of Catholicism. You can't talk to a program...so I am not going to speak with your own "programming." These sites are good for dialogue...but you are only interested in religious conditioning. Marx would be proud.

no one is born catholic
We were born into a catholic family yes but we are only born again catholic in the happy waters of baptism!

not magic. But the initiation into the new covenant church or communion of saints!

ez 36:25-27

God is speaking!

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

also Mk 16:16 acts 2:38-39 acts 8:36-38 acts 22:16 1 pet 3:20/21

no one of freed from the sin nature except by death or suffering

1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;


Must resist sin

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

 

[theefaith]

“There are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptism, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance; yet God does not forgive sins except to the baptized” (Sermons to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15 [A.D. 395]).
St. AUGUSTINE

ECF
“Happy is our sacrament of water, in that, by washing away the sins of our early blindness, we are set free and admitted into eternal life. . . . [But] a viper of the [Gnostic] Cainite heresy, lately conversant in this quarter, has carried away a great number with her most venomous doctrine, making it her first aim to destroy baptism—which is quite in accordance with nature, for vipers and.asps . . . themselves generally do live in arid and waterless places. But we, little fishes after the example of our [Great] Fish, Jesus Christ, are born in water, nor have we safety in any other way than by permanently abiding in water. So that most monstrous creature, who had no right to teach even sound doctrine, knew full well how to kill the little fishes—by taking them away from the water!” (Baptism 1 [A.D. 203]).

 

[theefaith]

Acts 22:19 baptism washes away sin by grace not magic!


A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.


Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!



Effects of baptism!

Faith and baptism accomplish justification
With these effects:
born again Jn 3:5
New creation in Christ 2 cor 5:17
Passed from death to life 2 Tim 1:10
Out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light 1 pet 2:9
All sins (original and personal) washed away acts 22:16
Washed in Christ’s blood 1 pet 1:2
Member of Christ and His church
1 cor 12:13
Put on Christ gal 3:27
Died with Christ rom 6:3
Risen with Christ col 2:12
Sealed by God in the ark of salvation 1 pet 3:20-21
Sealed with the Holy Spirit eph 1:13
And none by “faith alone”!





“Faith alone”

Questions

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is not found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

 

[theefaith]

You might find this interesting Faith:
Jesus does not give Peter first place among the apostles, nor does Jesus make him the foundation of the congregation. Jesus himself is the Rock upon which his congregation will be built. (1 Corinthians 3:11; Ephesians 2:20) Peter, though, is to receive three keys. He will have the privilege of opening, as it were, the opportunity for groups of people to enter the Kingdom of the heavens.
Peter would use the first key at Pentecost 33 C.E., showing repentant Jews and proselytes what they must do to be saved. He would use the second to open to believing Samaritans the opportunity to enter God’s Kingdom. Then, in 36 C.E., Peter would use the third to extend that opportunity to uncircumcised Gentiles, Cornelius and others.—Acts 2:37, 38; 8:14-17; 10:44-48.

explain Matt 10:2?

 

[Robert Gwin]

explain Matt 10:2?

Sure, Mat 10:2 is itemizing the 12 apostles by name. Peter was mentioned first, perhaps because he and his brother were the first to become Jesus' apostles Mt 4:18-22; Mr 1:16-18, but the account in John seems to make it seem that Andrew and another were the first
(John 1:40-42) . . .Andrew, the brother of Simon Peter, was one of the two who heard what John said and followed Jesus. 41 He first found his own brother Simon and said to him: “We have found the Mes·siʹah” (which means, when translated, “Christ”), 42 and he led him to Jesus.. . .

Quite likely Peter and Andrew were the first to become Apostles, which may account for Peter being listed there first. When multiple ones are named together, I think Peter always is listed first.

 

[theefaith]

Sure, Mat 10:2 is itemizing the 12 apostles by name. Peter was mentioned first, perhaps because he and his brother were the first to become Jesus' apostles Mt 4:18-22; Mr 1:16-18, but the account in John seems to make it seem that Andrew and another were the first
(John 1:40-42) . . .Andrew, the brother of Simon Peter, was one of the two who heard what John said and followed Jesus. 41 He first found his own brother Simon and said to him: “We have found the Mes·siʹah” (which means, when translated, “Christ”), 42 and he led him to Jesus.. . .

Quite likely Peter and Andrew were the first to become Apostles, which may account for Peter being listed there first. When multiple ones are named together, I think Peter always is listed first.

that’s cos Peter is first!

Andrew was chosen before Peter and brought Peter and Jesus together!

Peter is the prince and leader of the apostles the VISIBLE head of the church!

Peter exercises his authority over the apostles and the church!

Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 15:7

Peter is commanded to feed Christ’s sheep (the other apostles) and the lambs? (The people)
Jn 21:17

 

[Grailhunter]

“There are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptism, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance; yet God does not forgive sins except to the baptized” (Sermons to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15 [A.D. 395]).
St. AUGUSTINE

ECF
“Happy is our sacrament of water, in that, by washing away the sins of our early blindness, we are set free and admitted into eternal life. . . . [But] a viper of the [Gnostic] Cainite heresy, lately conversant in this quarter, has carried away a great number with her most venomous doctrine, making it her first aim to destroy baptism—which is quite in accordance with nature, for vipers and.asps . . . themselves generally do live in arid and waterless places. But we, little fishes after the example of our [Great] Fish, Jesus Christ, are born in water, nor have we safety in any other way than by permanently abiding in water. So that most monstrous creature, who had no right to teach even sound doctrine, knew full well how to kill the little fishes—by taking them away from the water!” (Baptism 1 [A.D. 203]).

Tertullian, very early Christian writer.

CHURCH FATHERS: On Baptism (Tertullian)

 

[Robert Gwin]

that’s cos Peter is first!

Andrew was chosen before Peter and brought Peter and Jesus together!

Peter is the prince and leader of the apostles the VISIBLE head of the church!

Peter exercises his authority over the apostles and the church!

Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 15:7

Peter is commanded to feed Christ’s sheep (the other apostles) and the lambs? (The people)
Jn 21:17

Lets say you are correct Faith, last time I checked Peter was long dead sir. Now I will say this, I do believe he is alive now and reside in the heavens, but what has he to do with God's earthly people at this time?