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Featured Binding and Loosing

Discussion in 'Christian Spirituality Forum' started by Episkopos, Jan 4, 2019.

  1. Anthony D'Arienzo

    Anthony D'Arienzo Active Member

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    No... I read your novel ideas but they are not supported from the text. The believing Church has always seen this as the go to pass
    age on church discipline as seen in 1 cor5 with that fornicating person.
     
  2. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Again with the church discipline. Are you thinking of a specific issue that is not being dealt with in your own experience?
     
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  3. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. I judge. John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

    Jesus did not come to judge us. But His words reveal our true state....and our willingness to obey the truth. The truth then, is that which binds and looses in our midst. The truth is like a double edged sword...both binding and loosing.


    It depends on how we receive the word.
     
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  4. LoveBeacon

    LoveBeacon Member

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    I find it interesting what Jesus said right before He made the 'binding and loosing' comment. Let's read it:
    "Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

    16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

    17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican."

    From what I can read it sounds like Jesus is giving authority to His church to kick out people that have a disagreement with the body of believers. It seems rather contradictory to your interpretation of Jesus not giving man any authority over anyone else (in the sense of someone being able to criticize someone else).

    While I agree that someone in a position of authority shouldn't lord their position over their followers by putting heavy loads, rather we should practice what we preach/teach. This is different from what you are sharing, however.

    I get the impression that the main purpose of what you shared is a way to escape accountability from others in the body. By taking a "who are you to judge me" approach, you are robbing yourself from the lesson that this person is sharing with you. Jesus clearly teaches that we should go to a brother who committed a fault and tell them what they did in order to a) let them know of their sin, and b) so we can be reconciled and not hold onto any bitterness towards that person.

    If done according to the spirit of God, then this kind of accountability is beneficial for the body. Let's be honest, if we are that spiritual that we know when we are at fault and we apologize and repent of it all the time, then we wouldn't be criticized by others, because there would be nothing to criticize you over! This isn't the truth, however. We ALL fall short to the glory of God, so it is helpful to have others to call you out when you are dancing with sin and set you back on the right path. And these same people should hear criticism from you when they are dancing with sin, also. The issue is when the people correcting others feel like they are above criticism so they can be dishing it out, without receiving it from others. This is the same attitude that the Pharisees had when they kicked out the blind man that Jesus healed. They said," you are not learnt in the law and yet you are trying to teach us", or something to that effect. This shows that they had a self-righteous spirit, rather than the spirit of God.

    I do agree, however, that being led by the holy spirit is what we should be aiming towards. I just find it rare that anybody is truly following every prompting of the Holy spirit, so having others around to share those blind spots in us, are a key component to an effective body.

    In peace
     
  5. marksman

    marksman My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her

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    In my study of New Testament church life, which has been ongoing for about ten years, when we speak about spiritual authority today bears no resemblance to spiritual authority as expressed in the scriptures.

    One thing that stands out to me in the New Testament church is that you did not have a position, you had a ministry and that ministry was a servant ministry, not an authority over ministry.

    Put simply, those with authority in the NT would not have the parking lot by the front door. They would park wherever there was a free space which could be at the farthest end of the parking lot.

    When going through the door of the building, the "minister" would open the door for the member, not the other way around.

    When sitting down for the church lunch, the minister would not sit at the top table and not sit until all the members had seats.

    Reading Ephesians 4:11, it is clear that they are servant ministries and their role is to produce other ministries. How many ministers do that? In too many churches, the congregation is there to bolster the minister's ministry.

    Basically, a person has no authority unless it comes from God, and if the person concerned does not seek to serve his people, he has no authority from God. That person gets his authority from a system which means it is not authority.
     
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  6. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    ...or it is an authority...but just not of Christ.
     
  7. marks

    marks Active Member

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    Interestingly, in the syntax of the passage is this:

    whatever you bind on earth shall be 'having been bound' in heaven. "having been bound" is shown to reflect the Passive Perfect verb form.

    Same thing on "loosing", whatever you loose shall be 'having been loosed' in heaven. Perfect Passive, done in the heavens, once for all time.

    So was Jesus giving His apostles authority, or was He declaring their bindings and loosings would be in accord to what God had already bound and loosed in heaven?

    Much love!
    Mark
     
  8. marks

    marks Active Member

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    Hi marksman,

    A few verses come to mind . . .

    1 Peter 5:2-3 KJV

    2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
    3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being examples to the flock.


    . . . and . . .

    Hebrews 13:17 KJV

    Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.


    Of course "rule" here should be better understood as lead, in the simplest meaning of the word being "to go before", to go in front of, to go first. Like that.

    But Peter clarifies this for us, in that we are not to be as lords, katakurieountas, instead, we are to take oversight because we want that ministry for the sake of being good for the people of God, and not for any other reason.

    We're told to submit to these so that they can do their work with joy, and we can profit better. Really, the way I see it, it's more like, Let those who lead just do that, so that you can receive all God wants for you.

    Much love!
    Mark
     
  9. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    And yet again the Catholic influence on the KJV shines through.

    2 Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, watching over them—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not pursuing dishonest gain, but eager to serve; 3 not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock.

    No mention of governmental our divine authority via the church.

    . . . and . . .

    Hebrews 13:17 New International Version (NIV)
    17 Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. Do this so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you.
     
  10. marks

    marks Active Member

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    I'm not sure what you are saying here. But yes, the KJV does have words chosen, I believe, in order to support the hierarchal church of the day. That's too bad!

    Much love!
    Mark
     
  11. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    Hello and welcome to the Site.

    I believe it not not either v Or, but both...He gave them His authority to speak in His name. "They will be done" = Declaring that which has already been done in the heaven realm.

    We see people bound, we know that is not God's will, therefore we speak what He spoke...loose them from that bondage.
    Or, we see something in a persons life ...a harsh angry father or whatever...so we speak in His name and bind those spirits that are causing the sorrow through that man, that he is being inflicted on wife and kids...

    PS..As for "coreissue's" comments on the KJV ...you will get used to that. I am KJV all the way... :)
     
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  12. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    The words chosen in the KJV did note superiority, government and spiritual authority above others.

    That is totally erroneous.
     
  13. marks

    marks Active Member

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    Hi and Thank you!

    I know that Jesus gave the disciples the same ministry as He had concerning healing and deliverances, therefore I have no disagreement they did those things also, whether we look to this passage or another.

    The Jews spoke of binding and loosing in terms of the Law, and Jesus spoke of a woman bound by Satan, whom He loosed.

    As this passage is in the context of reconciliations or divisions within the church, I see it how I do, but I certainly see your point also.

    Much love!
    Mark

    And about the KJV thing . . . it's truly unfortunate to me that they saw fit to insert such words as "Bishop" for "overseer", to give one example. Its not translation. They picked a different word, apparently to bolster their authoritative church model.

    But as I've used many many translations over the years, I have a real appreciation for the correctness of the KJV in most instances. You do need to know where there could be perhaps better translations. But then, I'm strictly "Lay", as they say. ;-)
     
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  14. marks

    marks Active Member

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    Agreed, and unfortunate! One of those things we need to know!

    Much love!
    Mark
     
  15. marksman

    marksman My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her

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    Yes and of course you better understand it when you realise the shepherd in New Testament times did not herd his sheep, he went before them and they followed.
     
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  16. marks

    marks Active Member

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    Hi marksman,

    That's a really good point!

    Much love!
    mark
     
  17. marksman

    marksman My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her

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    Thankyou.
     
  18. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    Hey episkopos thanks a lot for your posts here. It was work for you but I sure do appreciate it. I appreciate you. And you were true to your own words about patience with others. :)
     
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