Born again - Before, or After, the Call?

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Ritajanice

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When a physical human has a spiritual rebirth, they cross over from spiritual death to spiritual life. IMHO
Yup....mind Blowing ...spiritual life in Christ....starts conforming us into the image of Jesus...I know I still have a long way to go, but, I have come a long way the past 33 years...I used to be a “ raving looney”..my last place I lived..the whole neighbourhood were scared of me...I had some fights ( verbal) in that neighbourhood....I’m not proud of it..in fact I’m embarrassed about it...I’m just being honest..and showing you how God is conforming me to be more like Jesus..

The Love Of God is what has changed me.,I know that he truly loves me in my spirit....he never rejects me if I throw a hissy fit.,,which I haven’t done in quite some time...he’s very patient with me...I love him so much and he knows it...there is none like my God...no man on this planet...could ever love me like God....mind Blowing love and secure in his loving arms..
 
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JBO

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So, the Apostles did not have the spiritual rebirth before Pentecost?
I they did, we are not that they did.
They were drawing others to the outpouring. Why point to verse thirty-eight?
Because that spells it out very specifically. The gift of the Holy Spirit is the indwelling Holy Spirit.
Why not verse three? (although I assume much earlier)
The power to work miracles is not a sign of spiritual rebirth.
 

rockytopva

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The long... Drawn out... Altar call.... My dad bought me a minibike growing up and one Sunday while out for a ride I turned around... And nearly ran into a church bus. The bus doors open and out pops the head of Rod Moxely, who told me... "You need to be in church!" I made the mistake of telling my mother... And next thing you know I am off to the Fellowship Baptist church for church.

Picture the altar calls... Here it is a very cold northern winter... The wind outside blowing snow on the outside tundra... And me wondering what was more dead and lifeless... The outside scene or the church I was in. The minister would spend the hour telling us what bad people we were and then tell us we needed to come to the front and get saved. Now picture.... Here we have 300 people in formal dress, me sitting in the back, and a minister pleading me to go to the front to get saved. In my feelings to do that would be to confess to the world that I was a low down dirty guy and useless to society. If there were a thousand dollars in it there still would of been no way of me going to the front.

I have found out that salvation is as easy as... "The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." - Romans 10

Salvation should have been easily confessed and believed on. They made it impossible for me. I think it much better to let people know... Look... If you confess the Lord Jesus... And believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead... According to Romans 10... You will be saved! And not make things so complicated!
 
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DJT_47

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The long... Drawn out... Altar call.... My dad bought me a minibike growing up and one Sunday while out for a ride I turned around... And nearly ran into a church bus. The bus doors open and out pops the head of Rod Moxely, who told me... "You need to be in church!" I made the mistake of telling my mother... And next thing you know I am off to the Fellowship Baptist church for church.

Picture the altar calls... Here it is a very cold northern winter... The wind outside blowing snow on the outside tundra... And me wondering what was more dead and lifeless... The outside scene or the church I was in. The minister would spend the hour telling us what bad people we were and then tell us we needed to come to the front and get saved. Now picture.... Here we have 300 people in formal dress, me sitting in the back, and a minister pleading me to go to the front to get saved. In my feelings to do that would be to confess to the world that I was a low down dirty guy and useless to society. If there were a thousand dollars in it there still would of been no way of me going to the front.

I have found out that salvation is as easy as... "The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." - Romans 10

Salvation should have been easily confessed and believed on. They made it impossible for me. I think it much better to let people know... Look... If you confess the Lord Jesus... And believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead... According to Romans 10... You will be saved! And not make things so complicated!
Romans 10:9 is not all that's required to be saved. Confession of your belief is only one of the elements of salvation. The Ethiopian eunuch, Acts 8, confessed but was then baptized. The need to also be baptized was obviously part of Philip's preaching to him of the gospel, if you read the account carefully.
 

Ritajanice

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The working of miracles is a spiritual gift listed by Paul in 1 Corinthians 12:10, signifying acts of divine power that transcend natural laws, performed through the Holy Spirit.


1 Corinthians 12​

New International Version​

Concerning Spiritual Gifts​

12 Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2 You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.
7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[b] 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.
 
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Lambano

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That will never lead anyone into any Biblical revelation, as the Bible is not understood by our experiences, .. its discerned by our born again Spirit.

"the word of God is spiriutally discerned"..
You'll pardon me if I'm a little cynical about people claiming to be spiritually discerning the Word. "By their fruits ye shall know them."

BTW, claiming that our experiences do not inform our understanding of the Word denies that God providentially guides our experiences.
 
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Lambano

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When a physical human has a spiritual rebirth, they cross over from spiritual death to spiritual life.
Uh, that's kind of a circular argument. "re-birth is transitioning from death back to life". Pretty much by definition. Reminds me of samsara, the endless cycle of birth -> death -> rebirth in Buddhism. You still haven't defined what "spiritual life", or its opposite, "spiritual death" is.

Nicodemus's question stands: Πῶς δύναται ταῦτα γενέσθαι? All the commentators get on Nicodemus's ass for appearing to be clueless. Well, it's a damn good question, and at least he had the cajones to risk looking foolish for all time and ask it. And Jesus never did give him a straight answer. Maybe this is another one of those things where we're trying to put words to concepts for which human language has no words.
 
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Ritajanice

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You'll pardon me if I'm a little cynical about people claiming to be spiritually discerning the Word. "By their fruits ye shall know them."

BTW, claiming that our experiences do not inform our understanding of the Word denies that God providentially guides our experiences.
Our experiences are all part and parcel of understanding God.

One of my experiences was, I was controlled growing up and I had to conform to how they wanted me to be, if I played up, they would reject me......so, when I first became Born Again....I thought that if I played up, then God would reject me.........our experiences imo are how we can think that God is like the world....

He has undone and still undoing all the confusion my parents and the world fed me.people play mind games, some people get want they want through using manipulation, playing on our emotions, my parents played on my emotions, which really screwed me up...thankfully God has tuned me in, to some people playing mind games and playing on my emotions...people can also pick up on our weaknesses and use them to their advantage......that’s why we see scammers etc in this world also love rats who scam vulnerable people out of their money.

God is NOTHING like the world...he is NOT a God Of confusion...don’t get me wrong though, he disciplines...not the way the world disciplines..imo.

A Born Again imo..remember imo,LOL.

By their fruit you will know them, as we should be maturing in the fruits of the Spirit, God works in our hearts , so that we can bear Jesus fruit....I was externally immature in Christ for many, many years, still am at times...imo maturity comes from the Spirit who indwells our spirit, no matter how much we try to be mature in Christ, we can’t do it without the Living Spirit, it’s him in my spirit, maturing me to be mature in Christ.if that makes sense.

Would you say our behaviour is a fruit ?

Another thing God has showed me, we must be honest and sincere before him, I have held onto grudges, I can’t stand/ certain members, they trigger something in me, and I’m sure many can’t stand me, as I probably trigger something in them, I have always asked God to help me look within, is my heart for God where it should be...or is it in self....my pride and ego play a part at times, they still rise up, yet the thing is....in my spirit I know God is at work in there, ..he is the one developing and growing the fruit of our wonderful Lord Jesus, he is preparing us for heaven while on this earth..imo....we have that new heart and spirit within us and we should see change......
I recognise my change so does my family.....for me, that change has been a very slow process, as God had to heal all the damage from the world, before he could start the maturing and fruit process....
....which he most imo is certainly doing and continues to do so....Praise God.....sorry about the waffling....no worries if you want to challenge me or that you don’t agree...we’re all searching for Gods truth.

That’s just my testimony....from within my heart by the power of the Spirit I am being conformed into Jesus image.

Look at our Brother @amadeus he is a lovely example of maturity in Jesus and bearing the fruit of the Spirit.....

Just like we are to love our brothers and sisters...I can’t do that without his help ...my ego, pride of self...needs to be let go of, I’m still holding onto it at times......I give it to God, then I take it back at times....probably sounds like a load of confusion, but,that’s my way of explaining everything....and still I continue to be conformed into Jesus image...it’s been a long and very hard journey...as our focus is on God at all times, but, we also step off that narrow path ,at times,when we start focusing on self..
I have learnt who the self is ...and I have learnt that I must surrender self over to God and boy my pride and ego have fought against that...out of ignorance, believe it or believe it not..only a couple of nights ago, did I truly recognise self...
We imo must remember we are being conformed....which doesn’t happen overnight.....we’re on that narrow path...that we walk, we learn to walk that narrow path, through the leading and teaching of the Living Spirit...

Sorry about the long essay....just talking from my heart...not telling anyone that what I say is right...I just needed to vent, get all that off my chest so to speak.
 
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Ritajanice

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Yeah, me neither.
I still don’t know what my spirit is....I just know that it’s in direct communication with the Living Spirit Of God...

Who can work God out.....he’s so amazing, don’t you agree, Brother?

We all Love him and are forever seeking his heart out more and more....we are all on our own journey with God.....he’s busy with all us lot, LOL hehehe.

Even though we all have our moments....he’s the parent .....Praise God!
 
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St. SteVen

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Uh, that's kind of a circular argument. "re-birth is transitioning from death back to life". Like samsara, the endless cycle of birth -> death -> rebirth in Buddhism. You still haven't defined what "spiritual life", or its opposite, "spiritual death" is.
At spiritual rebirth, God puts His Spirit (the Spirit of Christ?) inside of us.
Prior to this event (be it ever so gradual or sudden) we are spiritually dead.
The evidence of spiritual rebirth is our ability to discern spiritual things.
Which are "discerned only through the Spirit."

1 Corinthians 2:14 NIV
The person without the Spirit does not
accept the things that come from the Spirit of God
but considers them foolishness,
and cannot understand them because they are
discerned only through the Spirit.

Nicodemus's question stands: Πῶς δύναται ταῦτα γενέσθαι? All the commentators get on Nicodemus's ass for appearing to be clueless. Well, it's a damn good question, and at least he had the cajones to risk looking foolish for all time and ask it. And Jesus never did give him a straight answer. Maybe this is another one of those things where we're trying to put words to concepts for which human language has no words.
Indeed.
However, having a tangible experience with the Spirit makes a HUGE difference.
It helps your "knower" to know.

I invite anyone who hasn't had this experience to find themselves a place,
be it a church sanctuary or an open field, and stand with eyes closed and palms open, waiting to receive.
Speak to God and say, "I need to know that you are real."
Take note of the first thing that comes into your mind and any associated experience.

[
 
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Ritajanice

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At spiritual rebirth, God puts His Spirit (the Spirit of Christ?) inside of us.
Prior to this event (be it ever so gradual or sudden) we are spiritually dead.
The evidence of spiritual rebirth is our ability to discern spiritual things.
Which are "discerned only through the Spirit."

1 Corinthians 2:14 NIV
The person without the Spirit does not
accept the things that come from the Spirit of God
but considers them foolishness,
and cannot understand them because they are
discerned only through the Spirit.
Love, Love, Love, Praise God...you and I have similar testimonies...on how he revealed himself to our spirit...mind Blowing wasn’t it?
 

DJT_47

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The working of miracles is a spiritual gift listed by Paul in 1 Corinthians 12:10, signifying acts of divine power that transcend natural laws, performed through the Holy Spirit.


1 Corinthians 12​

New International Version​

Concerning Spiritual Gifts​

12 Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2 You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.
7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[b] 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.
The working of miracles is a spiritual gift listed by Paul in 1 Corinthians 12:10, signifying acts of divine power that transcend natural laws, performed through the Holy Spirit.


1 Corinthians 12​

New International Version​

Concerning Spiritual Gifts​

12 Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2 You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.
7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[b] 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.
The "working of miracles" by mankind WAS a spiritual gift.
 

St. SteVen

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Love, Love, Love, Praise God...you and I have similar testimonies...on how he revealed himself to our spirit...mind Blowing wasn’t it?
Indeed.
And it begs the question about why some have these mountain-top experiences and others don't.
In our case it came to us unexpected. (uninvited) But perhaps the others need to invite it?

The further experiences I did invite. (pressed into)
I was willing to spend the time to seek these things out.
Developing understanding and experience as I went.
But I put myself in an environment where it was encouraged.
There were mentors to lean on with my inquiries.
Seek and you will find.

Those without that "environment" become like a root-bound plant.

[
 
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St. SteVen

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New topic.


[
 
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Ritajanice

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Indeed.
And it begs the question about why some have these mountain-top experiences and others don't.
In our case it came to us unexpected. (uninvited) But perhaps the others need to invite it?

The further experiences I did invite. (pressed into)
I was willing to spend the time to seek these things out.
Developing understanding and experience as I went.
But I put myself in an environment where it was encouraged.
There were mentors to lean on with my inquiries.
Seek and you will find.

Those without that "environment" become like a root-bound plant.

[
Also like performing of miracles....I had a Born Again friend who through him ,the Holy Spirit healed quite a few people , they must imo be empowered by the Spirit within them to perform such miracles..

Only the Living Spirit can heal and he is still healing and performing miracles to this day, through his children...under his mighty power and under the authority of Jesus.....

God also performs miracles today...like becoming Born Again by the Living testimony of God.

God is in control and God performs miracles today...in Jesus Name...Amen!..Praise God!


Performing miracles is most definitely a sign of rebirth...we must have the Spirit....as without God’s Living Spirit, we are none of His., just as his word says.....His Power is within his children.

All Glory goes to God!.....he gifts us his Spiritual gifts....according to his good pleasure and will...

1 Corinthians 12​

New International Version​

Concerning Spiritual Gifts​

12 Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2 You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.
7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[b] 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.
 
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Lambano

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Psychology Today said:
Webster defines the spirit as “an animated or vital principle held to give life” and “the activating or emotional principle influencing a person.”

"Rebirth" might be a misnomer. Something brand new is being born.
 
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