Born again - Before, or After, the Call?

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Ritajanice

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You make no sense. Goodbye
1 Corinthians 2:14
Audio Crossref Comment Greek
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

New Living Translation
But people who aren’t spiritual can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means.

English Standard Version
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

Berean Standard Bible
The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Berean Literal Bible
But the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he is not able to understand them, because spiritually they are discerned
 

Ronald Nolette

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My view is that the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is a subsequent event to a renewed relationship with God.
Like the outpouring in the second chapter of Acts. They already had the renewed relationship with God.
That was a historical event. Teh Spirit had never been indwelt by anyone before Pentecost. So that was a unique event. NOw when a person recieves Christ they are immediately Baptized by and in the spirit. Many people who had believed Jesus was messiah and were not present in the upper room, had to also get the infilling of the spirit.
 

Behold

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Believe what you like. But obedience is required.

Jesus is Salvation.

He is God's Sacrifice.

John 14:6

So, There is the "obedience", that God has provided.
Its Jesus shedding His own blood, and dying on The CROSS, in obedience, so that by His shed Blood and Death, .. all your sin, can be forgiven.

You part is to realize you are a sinner, and go to Jesus to be forgiven., so that you dont die in your sins... .. John 8:24... Jesus told you.
This Realization, is the "conviction of the Holy Spirit". = is....Jesus saying.>"if i be lifted up (on The Cross) i will DRAW all people to me""...

Its THE CROSS of CHRIST that God has provided so that by Jesus's Death on it, you can become 'FORGIVEN"..

This means that the SIN, that is separating you from God, ,can be resolved, so that God can then SAVE YOU..

You sin has to be dealt with as that is what is keeping you apart from God... and Jesus came to die for YOUR SIN.

"Jesus came into the world to SAVE SINNERS"...

A.) """" ALL have sinned. """"""



So.....What im showing you, is "the preaching of the Cross"..

See how im showing you, the Cross of Christ, as God's provision.. that is Your Salvation?

This is "the Gospel of the Grace of God" that is : Paul's Gospel

A.) No Cross of Christ = No Salvation.

JESUS is Salvation.

You Take Jesus... God takes you.

That is as simple as i can nail it down for you... @DJT_47

Accept no substitute.
 
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St. SteVen

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It required the laying on of the hands of an apostle, which is why Peter and John were sent. They laid their hands on them enabling the manifestation of the Spirit. Read Acts 8:16-18. This is the falling of the Holy Ghost, its manifistasltion, not the indwelling of the Holy Ghost which everyone receives as per Acts 2:38. Two different things: the gift of the Holy Ghost itself indwelling in you, and its manifistasltion in the form of various spiritual gifts, those listed in 1Cor 12:8-10
Ananias was not an Apostle. He laid hands on the Apostle Paul. (Saul)

And what do you make of this?

Hebrews 6:1-3 NIV
Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ
and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance
from acts that lead to death,[a] and of faith in God,
2 instruction about cleansing rites,[b] the laying on of hands,
the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.
3 And God permitting, we will do so.

]
 

St. SteVen

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Amen!!....becoming Born Again is an act of God...as you well know.

Gods Living witness the Holy Spirit, makes our spirit Born Again, it’s “ Mind Blowing “ when we become Born Again by the “ Living “ Holy Spirit “....

I remember your testimony well.....something you will NEVER forget, because it came from God’s Living witness, His Holy Spirit.

Praise God!!....Brother!.x
AMEN

I have been working on something recently that you might find interesting.
During my day, and especially at work I need to be able to find things quickly.
I have been asking God to show me. This requires me to wait (pause) until he reveals it.
Answers are coming quicker than if I did it myself. But I have to discipline myself to wait. (pause)
When I do, my eyes are directing to the thing I need.

I plan to use this discipline in my prayer ministry. Wait for God to direct my words.

]
 
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Ritajanice

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AMEN

I have been working on something recently that you might find interesting.
During my day, and especially at work I need to be able to find things quickly.
I have been asking God to show me. This requires me to wait (pause) until he reveals it.
Answers are coming quicker than if I did it myself. But I have to discipline myself to wait. (pause)
When I do, my eyes are directing to the thing I need.

I plan to use this discipline in my prayer ministry. Wait for God to direct my words.

]
Well said, 100% agree..all in God’s timing...and yes wait for the Holy Spirit / God to direct your words.
 
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DJT_47

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Ananias was not an Apostle. He laid hands on the Apostle Paul. (Saul)

And what do you make of this?

Hebrews 6:1-3 NIV
Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ
and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance
from acts that lead to death,[a] and of faith in God,
2 instruction about cleansing rites,[b] the laying on of hands,
the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.
3 And God permitting, we will do so.

]
You've not read or studied this carefully enough. Read the account in Acts 9 and ALSO, Paul's (Saul) recount of the account in Acts 22.

Pay attention to verses 12 and 17 in Acts 9.

Verse 12 says "that he may receive his sight" which are the words that God spoke to Ananias starting at verse 11, and which say nothing about receiving the Holy Ghost.

In verse 17, Ananias (not God) speaking to Saul ADDS the words "and be filled with the Holy Ghost", which means the indwelling of the Holy Ghost, exactly what happens to everyone who is baptized per Acts 2:38. Then, Saul was immediately baptized per verse 18.
Acts 9
1And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest, 2And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem. 3And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: 4And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? 5And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 6And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do. 7And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man. 8And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus. 9And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.10And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord. 11And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and inquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth, 12And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight. 13Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: 14And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name. 15But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: 16For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. 17And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 18And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

Then in Acts 22, Paul's recount of the event. Pay close attention to verse 13 and what Paul said that Ananias said to him. Once again, it says only that it was to receive his sight and nothing about receiving the Holy Ghost.

Then look at verse 16. He was told to be baptized to wash away his sins, calling on the name of the Lord, which is also consistent with Romans 10:9.

Acts 22
6And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me. 7And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? 8And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest. 9And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me. 10And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do. 11And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.
12And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there, 13Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him. 14And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth. 15For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard. 16And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
 
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JBO

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Believe what you like. But obedience is required. It's not the water it's obedience, which baptism is. Read my response to another party here just posted.
Yes,

Act 5:32 And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."
 

St. SteVen

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In verse 17, Ananias (not God) speaking to Saul ADDS the words "and be filled with the Holy Ghost", which means the indwelling of the Holy Ghost, exactly what happens to everyone who is baptized per Acts 2:38. Then, Saul was immediately baptized per verse 18.
When did the Apostle Paul receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit?

1 Corinthians 14:18 NIV
I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.

]
 

JBO

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When did the Apostle Paul receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit?

1 Corinthians 14:18 NIV
I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.

]
Baptism in the Holy Spirit is one and the same as receiving the gift, the indwelling, of the Holy Spirit when water baptized. Therefore, the apostle Paul received the baptism in the Holy Spirit when he "arose and was baptized, washing away his sins" (Acts 22:16). This is the gift that all repentant believers receive upon being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

On the other hand, we are not told when he received the empowering Holy Spirit, giving him the divinely impart power to perform signs, worders and miracles. We only know that he did receive that empowering Holy Spirit. He speaks of that ability on numerous occasions.
 

St. SteVen

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Baptism in the Holy Spirit is one and the same as receiving the gift, the indwelling, of the Holy Spirit when water baptized.
Why didn't the baptized believers in Samaria receive the Holy Spirit?



]
 

JBO

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Why didn't the baptized believers in Samaria receive the Holy Spirit?



]
They received the gift, the indwelling, of the Holy Spirit when they were baptized. They did not receive the empowering Holy Spirit until the apostles laid hands on them.

Act 5:32 And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."
 
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St. SteVen

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They received the gift, the indwelling, of the Holy Spirit when they were baptized. They did not receive the empowering Holy Spirit until the apostles laid hands on them.
Acts 1:5 NIV
For John baptized with[a] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with[b] the Holy Spirit.”

Acts 1:8 NIV
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

]
 

JBO

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Acts 1:5 NIV
For John baptized with[a] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with[b] the Holy Spirit.”

Acts 1:8 NIV
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

]
Those are two separate and distinct prophetic promises. They were likely issued days apart. The baptism in/with/by the Holy Spirit was a promise first made by John the Baptist. That was a promise given, not to just a few select individuals, but to the mass of believers who had come out to hear him.

Mat 3:5 Then Jerusalem and all Judea and all the region about the Jordan were going out to him,
Mat 3:6 and they were baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins.

Mat 3:11 "I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.


Act 5:32 And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

This is in line with the promise in Acts 1:5 and the the actions in Acts 2:38, and describes the indwelling Holy Spirit given to all repentant believers who are (water) baptized.

The promise of the Acts 1:8 took place after the promise of Acts 1:5 Acts 1:3 states that Acts 1:5 was in the period of 50 days after Jesus joined up with the apostles. The promise of Acts 1:8 was later "when they came together" (v. 6).. This describes the empowering Holy Spirit given to only a select few who then received various abilities to perform signs, wonders and miracles.
 

St. SteVen

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St. SteVen said:

Acts 1:5 NIV
For John baptized with[a] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with[b] the Holy Spirit.”

Acts 1:8 NIV
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
Those are two separate and distinct prophetic promises.
Three verses apart. Only a few days. (approx 10)
And happened simultaneously at the outpouring on Pentecost.

/
 

JBO

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St. SteVen said:

Acts 1:5 NIV
For John baptized with[a] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with[b] the Holy Spirit.”

Acts 1:8 NIV
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

Three verses apart. Only a few days. (approx 10)
And happened simultaneously at the outpouring on Pentecost.

/
It doesn't say that. You misunderstand the different roles of the Holy Spirit. The indwelling Holy Spirit is given to all who are saved. That is the baptism in/with/by the Holy Spirit. That is not the empowering Holy Spirit that was given only to a few select indiviuals.

The Baptism in (the indwelling) the Holy Spirit was/is strictly a New Covenant work of the Holy Spirit. The empowering Holy Spirit was an Old Covenant work of the Holy Spirit and a New Covenant work of the Holy Spirit. It was given to only a few select and was not limited to the saved or even to persons. Recall the empowering Holy Spirit given to Baalam's Ass.
 

DJT_47

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When did the Apostle Paul receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit?

1 Corinthians 14:18 NIV
I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.

]
If I'm not mistaken, the scriptures don't say. BUT, my guess is it's no different than the eleven apostles in Acts 2 on which the Holy Ghost FELL on unilaterally as promised them by the Lord in Luke 24:49, the power from on high, after which they spoke in tongues and the Jews were converted. Paul was also an apostle called out by God as were the eleven.
 

Behold

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When did the Apostle Paul receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit?

1 Corinthians 14:18 NIV
I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.

]

That verse does not say anything about Paul "receiving the baptism with" anything.

He's talking to a group of carnal Christians, who were the most carnal in the entire NT.

Paul is making a reference to "tongues", that is the "prayer language" and that is not the spiritual "Gift of Tongues"

This is an unknown "tongue" , and He says in verse 19 that he'd rather speak words you can understand, as the unknown tongue or the "Prayer language" is for the user.
 

Behold

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in Acts 2 on which the Holy Ghost FELL on unilaterally

The 11 apostles had already been given the Holy Spirit in John 20:22, and no one spoke in tongues, and no one was water baptized.

What happened to Peter.... LATER...... in Acts 2, was the enabling for ministry, that came from the Holy Spirit.

Its a specific anointing for service.

It works like this.

God calls the person into the ministry, and then anoints them,... and that is the enabling for service.


Reader, look in your bible and notice this verse...

Ephesians 4:11-16​

11 And He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;​

= 12 For the perfecting of the saints,​

Notice that there are different ministries.....and each of them was CALLED by an anointing of the Holy Spirit that anointed them for THAT ministry.​

Each anointing is different, as its providing Heavenly power for that particular CALL.​

So, the anointing that is on an Evangelist, is not the same that is on a Pastor..... ect.​

Can a minister have more then one anointing?​

Yes..​

Exactly as a Believer can have more then one Spiritual Gift.... regarding Paul's teaching on the 9 spiritual Gifts.​

 
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St. SteVen

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From the OP.

"Man chooses that which is according to his nature,
and therefore before he will ever choose or prefer that
which is divine and spiritual, a new nature must be imparted to him;
in other words, he must be born again.

Let me appeal to the actual experience of the reader of these lines.
Was there not a time when you were unwilling to come to Christ?
There was. Since then you have come to Him.

Are you now prepared to give Him all the glory for that (Ps 115:1)?
Do you not acknowledge that you came to Christ because the Holy Spirit
brought you from unwillingness to willingness?" - J. Preston Eby

Source: Man Is A Free Moral Agent: Just What Do You Mean Man is A Free Moral Agent; The Sinner Must Decide; The Shepherd Seeks The Sheep; The Will Of Man; I Will Draw All Men Unto Me; By One Man

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