Born again requirement ?

[BreadOfLife]

You really don't want sense, but rather submission to your way of seeing things, which is not God's. Consider Jesus's explanations of his use of parables:

"For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them." Matt 13:12-15

It's the same old pattern with you.
You post nonsensical responses - and when you are asked to explain, you post Scripture verses that are irrelevant to the conversation.

Now - is there something you wanted to say to me regarding the "Fire" of the Holy Spirit?
If not - then why did you tell your friend that I needed "help" understanding"?

Here's a little advice: If you have something to say - then SAY it and don't beat around the bush.

 

[amadeus]

It's the same old pattern with you.
You post nonsensical responses - and when you are asked to explain, you post Scripture verses that are irrelevant to the conversation.

Now - is there something you wanted to say to me regarding the "Fire" of the Holy Spirit?
If not - then why did you tell your friend that I needed "help" understanding"?

Here's a little advice: If you have something to say - then SAY it and don't beat around the bush.

Because I believe that he, @bbyrd009 ,would have understood and perhaps God would have given him words which you could hear with understanding. Perhaps you will understand this even if you won't accept it.

When the three Hebrew were thrown into the fiery furnace at the command of Nebuchadnezzar the strongest soldiers who took hold of them died for the efforts from the great heat of the proximity of the fire. The Hebrews approached God, the consuming fire and were not burned except the ropes that bound them. This is the fire which we see at the gate to Eden which is a flaming sword, the Word of God which trims off all that is evil and adds on that which is good.

 

[twinc]

Because I believe that he, @bbyrd009 ,would have understood and perhaps God would have given him words which you could hear with understanding. Perhaps you will understand this even if you won't accept it.

When the three Hebrew were thrown into the fiery furnace at the command of Nebuchadnezzar the strongest soldiers who took hold of them died for the efforts from the great heat of the proximity of the fire. The Hebrews approached God, the consuming fire and were not burned except the ropes that bound them. This is the fire which we see at the gate to Eden which is a flaming sword, the Word of God which trims off all that is evil and adds on that which is good.

presumably speaking in inspired tongues = gibberish rubbish considered as inspiration and HS guidance imho - Jesus, not the HS, is with the Church always even to the end just as He said imho - twinc

 

[amadeus]

presumably speaking in inspired tongues = gibberish rubbish considered as inspiration and HS guidance imho - Jesus, not the HS, is with the Church always even to the end just as He said imho - twinc

Why do you make conclusions regarding me or others without having knowledge? I did not say a word here about "speaking in inspired tongues" and you never having experienced them condemn them.

"Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.
Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not." Job 42:1-3

"But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." Matt 12:36-37

 

[twinc]

Why do you make conclusions regarding me or others without having knowledge? I did not say a word here about "speaking in inspired tongues" and you never having experienced them condemn them.

"Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.
Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not." Job 42:1-3

"But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." Matt 12:36-37

I condemn them because scripture does at Jn.14:17 and 1Cor 13:8 - btw I have been to a few charismatic meetings - twinc

 

[amadeus]

I condemn them because scripture does at Jn.14:17 and 1Cor 13:8 - btw I have been to a few charismatic meetings - twinc

You misunderstand the verses you cite and as to your experience, even if very bad, the errors of some people are not the errors of all. This is why judgment belongs not to us, but to God.

 

[twinc]

You misunderstand the verses you cite and as to your experience, even if very bad, the errors of some people are not the errors of all. This is why judgment belongs not to us, but to God.

so I misunderstand because I am not inspired or guided by the Holy Spirit but you are is that what you claim - twinc

 

[amadeus]

so I misunderstand because I am not inspired or guided by the Holy Spirit but you are is that what you claim - twinc

Don't be adding to what I said, twinc. I believe I am right as you believe that you are right. Who is right on any point is God's decision, not yours or mine. Anyone who loves God hears from God. The problem is that we also hear other voices inherent to our own flesh and/or a devil. The Apostle Paul warns us NOT to quench the Spirit of God, but most everyone I know does it at times. This is why we continue to sin. This is why there are thousands of denomination using the same Bible and claiming to have the Holy Spirit in them.

If the Holy Spirit were in us and we always followed and obeyed the Holy Spirit, we would never make mistakes and we would never sin. I don't know of a single person who is and has been like that other than Jesus.

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

"For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace." Romans 8:5-6

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

 

[bbyrd009]

Who is right on any point is God's decision, not yours or mine.

imo the concept of "witnesses" is important here

 

[twinc]

Don't be adding to what I said, twinc. I believe I am right as you believe that you are right. Who is right on any point is God's decision, not yours or mine. Anyone who loves God hears from God. The problem is that we also hear other voices inherent to our own flesh and/or a devil. The Apostle Paul warns us NOT to quench the Spirit of God, but most everyone I know does it at times. This is why we continue to sin. This is why there are thousands of denomination using the same Bible and claiming to have the Holy Spirit in them.

If the Holy Spirit were in us and we always followed and obeyed the Holy Spirit, we would never make mistakes and we would never sin. I don't know of a single person who is and has been like that other than Jesus.

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

"For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace." Romans 8:5-6

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

Don't be adding to what I said, twinc. I believe I am right as you believe that you are right. Who is right on any point is God's decision, not yours or mine. Anyone who loves God hears from God. The problem is that we also hear other voices inherent to our own flesh and/or a devil. The Apostle Paul warns us NOT to quench the Spirit of God, but most everyone I know does it at times. This is why we continue to sin. This is why there are thousands of denomination using the same Bible and claiming to have the Holy Spirit in them.

If the Holy Spirit were in us and we always followed and obeyed the Holy Spirit, we would never make mistakes and we would never sin. I don't know of a single person who is and has been like that other than Jesus.

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

"For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace." Romans 8:5-6

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

yes yes but here it is again and again the cause of grave error and mistakes - this is not addressed to you and or I - btw who says who exactly is quenching the spirit and even worse blaspheming the Holy Spirit - twinc

 

[amadeus]

imo the concept of "witnesses" is important here

Yes, it is, but as you know, not all witnesses are good ones. Consider the false witnesses who Jezebel used to have Naboth stoned to death so that Ahab could get the piece of land he wanted [I Kings 21]. They used the written law to accomplish what would to have beenan abomination to God. Today people may use the Bible [which they call the Word of God] to prove their point, whether it is a good point or not. Remember that only God is "good" so what any man says is good may not be. It would depend on whether God is in the man and whether the man is listening to and obeying God in a given moment.

Jezebel used the law as written here to have Naboth killed:

"One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established." Deut 19:15

This shows clearly the problem with black and white rules. People today want to use the NT as a black and white rule book [the letter oft he law], but it did not work for the law God gave to Moses as we have seen. People are as unreliable today as they were then... including some who call themselves believers. Sometimes I know I have been unreliable because in spite of my efforts not to, at times I have quenched the Holy Spirit and gone my own way.

The key to resolving the problem for me could lie in this verse:

"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Matt 18:20

But still the problem exists because too many do not know what the words "in my name" mean to God. And then again which 2 or 3 persons are able to be "in His name"? So then consider this...

Jesus stood seemingly alone according to the carnal eyes of observers.

"If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true." John 5:31-32

"But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not." John 5:36-38

So when we stand up to speak and the Spirit of God is on us and in us, the necessary two are there, but who will accept it? Many did NOT accept the words of Jesus:

"And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not." John 5:37-38

Jesus had the best of witnesses, but the Jewish leaders for the most part could not hear and understand what He was saying. At the critical moment they cried out:

"And they cried out all at once, saying, Away with this man, and release unto us Barabbas:" Luke 23:18

 

[amadeus]

yes yes but here it is again and again the cause of grave error and mistakes - this is not addressed to you and or I - btw who says who exactly is quenching the spirit and even worse blaspheming the Holy Spirit - twinc

Precisely old friend. Who says who exactly is quenching the Spirit? It is my words against your words. Actually as I said in my post #311 to @bbyrd009 there is a problem of witnesses. Who was Jesus witness? Who is mine? Who is yours?

This is why God doesn't pay attention to the words of any witnesses but rather is looking at their hearts. Does God ever let us look into the heart of another person?