Born again requirement ?

[twinc]

is water and Spirit = not Spirit alone or water alone or even Spirit and water - twinc

 

[BreadOfLife]

John 3:4-5
Nicodemus said to him, “How can a person once grown old be born again? Surely he cannot reenter his mother’s womb and be born again, can he?”

Jesus answered, “Amen, amen, I say to you, NO ONE can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water AND Spirit.


Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is BAPTIZED will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned.

 

[twinc]

John 3:4-5
Nicodemus said to him, “How can a person once grown old be born again? Surely he cannot reenter his mother’s womb and be born again, can he?”

Jesus answered, “Amen, amen, I say to you, NO ONE can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water AND Spirit.


Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is BAPTIZED will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned.

just stick with Jn 3:4-5 and be safe and sure and not try proving Mk16:16 at 17 - twinc

 

[DPMartin]

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


take note the statement in context, basically Jesus is saying one must be born of flesh or water to be in the world, or be alive in the earth (they are things of the earth), and one must be born of Sprint to be in Heaven (things of Heaven).

baptism by water isn't an issue here, Israelites especially an upper crust teacher as Nicodemus was, understands baptism by water.


Jesus states later, in the same book I believe, that nothing ascends to heaven unless its from heaven even the Son of man who is in heaven.(that's not a quote) water and or flesh can't inherit Heaven.

Heaven and earth are not one, but I do believe that is to be accomplished some time in the future or its a work in progress at this time.

 

[twinc]

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


take note the statement in context, basically Jesus is saying one must be born of flesh or water to be in the world, or be alive in the earth (they are things of the earth), and one must be born of Sprint to be in Heaven (things of Heaven).

baptism by water isn't an issue here, Israelites especially an upper crust teacher as Nicodemus was, understands baptism by water.


Jesus states later, in the same book I believe, that nothing ascends to heaven unless its from heaven even the Son of man who is in heaven.(that's not a quote) water and or flesh can't inherit Heaven.

Heaven and earth are not one, but I do believe that is to be accomplished some time in the future or its a work in progress at this time.

we have to be born as normal at birth by water and flesh/blood and again at baptism by water and spirit [Jn 3:6] - twinc

 

[BreadOfLife]

just stick with Jn 3:4-5 and be safe and sure and not try proving Mk16:16 at 17 - twinc

Huh??
Both passages prove the necessity of Water Baptism.

 

[twinc]

Huh??
Both passages prove the necessity of Water Baptism.

btaim but picking up snakes and drinking poison is definitely not recommended or required as proof of belief - twinc

 

[BreadOfLife]

btaim but picking up snakes and drinking poison is definitely not recommended or required as proof of belief - twinc

And who is making that claim?
I simply showed 2 passages in Scripture that mandate water Baptism.

So far - you haven't refuted that.

 

[ScottA]

just stick with Jn 3:4-5 and be safe and sure and not try proving Mk16:16 at 17 - twinc

Indeed, John the baptist made it clear that there are two types of baptism: by water and by the Holy Spirit....which of course is also the point of being born again.

 

[twinc]

And who is making that claim?
I simply showed 2 passages in Scripture that mandate water Baptism.

So far - you haven't refuted that.

And who is making that claim?
I simply showed 2 passages in Scripture that mandate water Baptism.

So far - you haven't refuted that.

because it is irrefutable that's why - twinc

 

[BreadOfLife]

Indeed, John the baptist made it clear that there are two types of baptism: by water and by the Holy Spirit....which of course is also the point of being born again.

The Baptism of Jesus was the prototype for Baptismal Regeneration.
BOTH elements were present:
1. Water
2. The Holy Spirit (in the form of a dove).

ONE Baptism (Eph. 4-5). - with both elements (Matt. 3:16).

 

[twinc]

Indeed, John the baptist made it clear that there are two types of baptism: by water and by the Holy Spirit....which of course is also the point of being born again.

which of course is just not so - there are not two types of baptism viz one by water and one by spirit but only one by water and spirit - twinc

 

[BreadOfLife]

because it is irrefutable that's why - twinc

Then I'm not sure what your point was.

 

[DPMartin]

we have to be born as normal at birth by water and flesh/blood and again at baptism by water and spirit [Jn 3:6] - twinc

no, again by Spirit, did Jesus say again by water, or did He say by Spirit? were done here.

 

[twinc]

no, again by Spirit, did Jesus say again by water, or did He say by Spirit? were done here.

did Jesus say = exactly so = lets not go for what you say or others say = see Jn 3:5

 

[BreadOfLife]

no, again by Spirit, did Jesus say again by water, or did He say by Spirit? were done here.

He said Water AND Spirit.

 

[ScottA]

The Baptism of Jesus was the prototype for Baptismal Regeneration.
BOTH elements were present:
1. Water
2. The Holy Spirit (in the form of a dove).

ONE Baptism (Eph. 4-5). - with both elements (Matt. 3:16).

which of course is just not so - there are not two types of baptism viz one by water and one by spirit but only one by water and spirit - twinc

That does not represent John the baptist's (and therefore Gop's) clarification of the difference.

BOl you have given the correct answer, but don't even support it with your own comments:

proto-
ˈprōdō/
combining form

1. original; primitive.
   "prototherian"
   • first; anterior; relating to a precursor.

...As John said referring to his baptism compared to that of Jesus' baptism of the Holy Spirit, "was not worth" of loosening Jesus's sandal straps.

 

[ScottA]

He said Water AND Spirit.

That would only apply if Jesus were talking to the unborn (of water and spirit). But He was speaking to those already born of water...and specifically not purposing they "enter again into the womb."

 

[BreadOfLife]

That does not represent John the baptist's (and therefore Gop's) clarification of the difference.

BOl you have given the correct answer, but don't even support it with your own comments:

proto-
ˈprōdō/
combining form

1. original; primitive.
   "prototherian"
   • first; anterior; relating to a precursor.

...As John said referring to his baptism compared to that of Jesus' baptism of the Holy Spirit, "was not worth" of loosening Jesus's sandal straps.

Huh??
Protos means "first". Prototype means the first model.

Jesus' Baptism was the prototype (model) for all future Christian Baptism.

 

[BreadOfLife]

That would only apply if Jesus were talking to the unborn (of water and spirit). But He was speaking to those already born of water...and specifically not purposing they "enter again into the womb."

Soooo - what do YOU think Jesus meant by "water" in John 3:5?