Born Sinful

[jsbean]

What does everybody believe? I hear most people say we are born sinful... is that what you believe too?

 

[aspen]

What does everybody believe? I hear most people say we are born sinful... is that what you believe too?

There are many variations of this idea within Christianity. I believe that we were created good so we never thought about choosing to misuse things and we were in perfect relationship with God. Adam and Eve were tempted by the serpent to misuse God's creation by eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil - telling them that they would be like gods because they would know the difference. Of course this was ridiculous because they never needed to know evil to know good. A poor analogy would be to tell a milk-lover to try sour milk in order to know the difference - who cares what the difference is - all you end up with is a bad experience.

Unfortunately, for humanity, Adam and Eve learned that they had the power to misuse God's creation for their own selfish reasons - and they taught their children and our parents taught us - this is Original Sin. From then on, people are tempted to misuse God's creation or sin rather than enjoy the Good. This has had devastating effects on human nature - because we started thinking about ourselves first, we have the tendency not to love others, or see each other's perspectives or have empathy rather than judgment for each other. Jesus came to teach us to be fully human again and He will justify and sanctify our hearts in order to teach us if we allow Him.

Hope that helps

 

[Martin W.]

What does everybody believe? I hear most people say we are born sinful... is that what you believe too?

I want to say that what you believe is more important than what I believe (as far as your question applies.)

What I believe is irrelevant to your salvation.

Unless of course you were just setting me up for a long discourse on original sin or something. If that was your intent , I expect you have a couple of hundred pages of prepared copy and paste for us. If I am wrong , I apologize.

Welcome to the forum jsbean. Are you born sinful (your words) and do you have a remedy or good advice.

I love good advice.

Thank you , and again , welcome.

Martin
I have an extremely good sense of smell.
It is a weakness I have.

 

[Larry Conlley]

There where men who were not born sinful. Jesus was one of them.

There were men who were not born sinful. Jesus was one of them.

Adam was another.

and there are some more than these 2.

 

[paul1234]

jesus set us free from sin

 

[TexUs]

What does everybody believe? I hear most people say we are born sinful... is that what you believe too?

While you may have worded the question better I think what you're asking is, "What does the Bible say?"?????


Contrary to aspen's beliefs (you notice the lack of scripture in his post) the Bible is clear we are born sinful, yes.





Romans 8:7; “The sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.”


Romans 7:24; “What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?”


Ephesians 2:1; “You were dead in your transgressions and sins.”


Jeremiah 17:9; “The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?”


Romans 6:20; “When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness.”


1 Corinthians 2:14; “The man without the Sprit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolish to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are
spiritually discerned.”


Ephesians 2:3; “All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.”


Romans 3:11; “There is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.”


Even in Old Covenant days people realized they were sinful at birth. David is pretty straight forward:
Psalm 51:5, "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me."

 

[[email protected]]

There where men who were not born sinful. Jesus was one of them.

There were men who were not born sinful. Jesus was one of them.

Adam was another.

and there are some more than these 2.

I heard a preacher once state that sin is transmitted by the male component of the fertilization process.
That is why Jesus could be born free of sin.

It was also a good line for him to preach to 50+ year old women as they are always eager to buy any sort of rubbish that makes them feel superior to men.
Must have worked too, because he always drove a nice car.

That man was a true profit (vs. prophet). :lol:

 

[TexUs]

I heard a preacher once state that sin is transmitted by the male component of the fertilization process.
That is why Jesus could be born free of sin.

It was also a good line for him to preach to 50+ year old women as they are always eager to buy any sort of rubbish that makes them feel superior to men.
Must have worked too, because he always drove a nice car.

That man was a true profit (vs. prophet). :lol:

LOL, funny story.
I wonder how he read the story of Eve eating the apple first? LOL.

 

[ThyWordisTruth]

We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners.
Psalm 51:5 ; Romans 5:12

We are born with a sin nature, thus we commit sin.

Sin = Sin Nature.
sin(s) pural = manifestations of that nature.

And the only remedy for that sin nature (old man) IS Christ Jesus!

 

[timf]

It is our physical connection to Adam that is the vehicle for a sin nature.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Adam was held accountable for willful sin.

1 Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

It is being born again that gives us a new body and a new nature.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

It is the conflict of two natures that often makes Christians appear so erratic.

Galatians 5:16-17 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

The key to victory over sin is walking in the Spirit. This is in truth, humility, selflessness, and in dependence on our Savior.

 

[bud02]

What does everybody believe? I hear most people say we are born sinful... is that what you believe too?

Was Adam created sinful?

If not then why did he sin? The argument that man inherited a sin nature is false.

Sin entered the world not man, Death is the inherent part if you want to call it inherited

rom 5
2 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— [sup]13[/sup] (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. [sup]14[/sup] Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. [sup]15[/sup] But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.

 

[TexUs]

Was Adam created sinful?

If not then why did he sin? The argument that man inherited a sin nature is false.

Because we were created with the nature and capacity to sin, obviously. There can be no other way.


If you go back even BEFORE Adam and Eve the question becomes, "What caused Satan to sin?"
There was no outside influence to cause Satan to sin- as was the case with Adam and Eve, at least.


Thus the problem staring you right in the face is that God created beings with the complete capacity for sin. Maybe they had will to stop it, or maybe not. The fact is though- God had to have planted it and God didn't hinder it. Thus: it was part of his design. To some extent at least.


And I don't know how you can get around the fact that Satan, a created being, had to have put in his mind the thought of sin by GOD- it could come from nowhere else- and thus starts the chain reaction down to Adam and Eve. Maybe they had "free will" to choose sin, but most people ignore the fact this also means they would have had just as much free will to oppose Satan but they didn't. The only logical conclusion is it was designed to happen exactly like it happened.
So the facts are... Sin has always been a part of God's plan. And I trust that however he exactly orchestrated it to happen it will lead to his ultimate glory, and good.
I also don't believe he forces us to sin.

Sin entered the world not man, Death is the inherent part if you want to call it inherited

rom 5
2 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— [sup]13[/sup] (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. [sup]14[/sup] Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. [sup]15[/sup] But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.

I see this as more of an expression, sin "started with" Adam. That was the beginning (entering) point for it.
Sin isn't an object. Sin is simply opposition to God. Sin is simply, our actions and thoughts.

 

[TexUs]

Was Adam created sinful?

If not then why did he sin? The argument that man inherited a sin nature is false.

Because we were created with the nature and capacity to sin, obviously. There can be no other way.


If you go back even BEFORE Adam and Eve the question becomes, "What caused Satan to sin?"
There was no outside influence to cause Satan to sin- as was the case with Adam and Eve, at least.


Thus the problem staring you right in the face is that God created beings with the complete capacity for sin. Maybe they had will to stop it, or maybe not. The fact is though- God had to have planted it and God didn't hinder it. Thus: it was part of his design. To some extent at least.


And I don't know how you can get around the fact that Satan, a created being, had to have put in his mind the thought of sin by GOD- it could come from nowhere else- and thus starts the chain reaction down to Adam and Eve. Maybe they had "free will" to choose sin, but most people ignore the fact this also means they would have had just as much free will to oppose Satan but they didn't. The only logical conclusion is it was designed to happen exactly like it happened.
So the facts are... Sin has always been a part of God's plan. And I trust that however he exactly orchestrated it to happen it will lead to his ultimate glory, and good.
I also don't believe he forces us to sin.

Sin entered the world not man, Death is the inherent part if you want to call it inherited

rom 5
2 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— [sup]13[/sup] (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. [sup]14[/sup] Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. [sup]15[/sup] But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.

I see this as more of an expression, sin "started with" Adam. That was the beginning (entering) point for it.
Sin isn't an object. Sin is simply opposition to God. Sin is simply, our actions and thoughts.

 

[bud02]

[/size]
Because we were created with the nature and capacity to sin, obviously. There can be no other way.

If you go back even BEFORE Adam and Eve the question becomes, "What caused Satan to sin?"
There was no outside influence to cause Satan to sin- as was the case with Adam and Eve, at least.

Thus the problem staring you right in the face is that God created beings with the complete capacity for sin. Maybe they had will to stop it, or maybe not. The fact is though- God had to have planted it and God didn't hinder it. Thus: it was part of his design. To some extent at least.

And I don't know how you can get around the fact that Satan, a created being, had to have put in his mind the thought of sin by GOD- it could come from nowhere else- and thus starts the chain reaction down to Adam and Eve. Maybe they had "free will" to choose sin, but most people ignore the fact this also means they would have had just as much free will to oppose Satan but they didn't. The only logical conclusion is it was designed to happen exactly like it happened.
So the facts are... Sin has always been a part of God's plan. And I trust that however he exactly orchestrated it to happen it will lead to his ultimate glory, and good.
I also don't believe he forces us to sin.


I see this as more of an expression, sin "started with" Adam. That was the beginning (entering) point for it.
Sin isn't an object. Sin is simply opposition to God. Sin is simply, our actions and thoughts.

Thus the problem staring you right in the face is that God created beings with the complete capacity for sin. Maybe they had will to stop it, or maybe not. The fact is though- God had to have planted it and God didn't hinder it. Thus: it was part of his design. To some extent at least.

Thanks for making my point. That was my intent to inspire thought to come to that conclusion. I like your implication that I don't know, staring you right in the face

And I don't know how you can get around the fact that Satan, a created being, had to have put in his mind the thought of sin by GOD- it could come from nowhere else- and thus starts the chain reaction down to Adam and Eve. Maybe they had "free will" to choose sin, but most people ignore the fact this also means they would have had just as much free will to oppose Satan but they didn't. The only logical conclusion is it was designed to happen exactly like it happened.
So the facts are... Sin has always been a part of God's plan. And I trust that however he exactly orchestrated it to happen it will lead to his ultimate glory, and good.
I also don't believe he forces us to sin.

As I just explained I was hoping some would think and come to that conclusion. But you want to imply that I'm ignorant of the fact, by the way where am I trying to get around it?

Maybe you can elaborate on the under lined statements. And then I'll show you the verses where it says Satin conceived in his heart. OK

 

[TexUs]

As usual you offer nothing to the discussion- no new thought- just trying to defame me. Whatever.

Regardless I'm fully aware of what Ez 28 says. He was prideful in his heart. Where'd this sense of pride come from and how did he ever know what it was?

The situation in heaven would have been similar to eden, we imagine.
God and his commands. There was no reason for Adam and Eve to ever think of anything but that which they knew (God and his commands)- until Satan told them.
The problem is, in heaven with Satan- the same applies. There's no reason for Satan or the other angles to think of anything but that which they knew (God and his commands)- so the logical problem is: Where did Satan's pride problem come from? There wasn't a force other than God that would have given it to him.

 

[Duckybill]

Recently I was watching my 1 and 2 year old grandchildren fight over toys. Where did they learn that? They didn't have to learn it.

 

[TexUs]

Recently I was watching my 1 and 2 year old grandchildren fight over toys. Where did they learn that? They didn't have to learn it.

Kids are an excellent example of both the existence of God and the concept of total depravity.

Kids are born with a sense of God... They are born believing there is something higher and more powerful than mommy and daddy. This is a destructive point to the atheist because it proves that atheists have talked themselves out of what is natural.
In addition, as you say, kids can bite each other to get their way... Where do they learn that?!?!?! They don't see mommy and daddy biting each other when they disagree. It's a testament to the total depravity of man.

That's the condition today. Of course when one speculates as to how it was in regards to Satan or Adam and Eve things are slightly different

 

[bud02]

As usual you offer nothing to the discussion- no new thought- just trying to defame me. Whatever.

Regardless I'm fully aware of what Ez 28 says. He was prideful in his heart. Where'd this sense of pride come from and how did he ever know what it was?

The situation in heaven would have been similar to eden, we imagine.
God and his commands. There was no reason for Adam and Eve to ever think of anything but that which they knew (God and his commands)- until Satan told them.
The problem is, in heaven with Satan- the same applies. There's no reason for Satan or the other angles to think of anything but that which they knew (God and his commands)- so the logical problem is: Where did Satan's pride problem come from? There wasn't a force other than God that would have given it to him.

I see you are still insisting on blaming God for Satin fall. He satin would be pleased with your defense.
And yes its found in Ezekiel as well as Isaiah 14:12-13 I might add it says he said, in his heart.
Eze 28 no where indicates that God put the thought in him as you said above.

 

[ahigherway]

What does everybody believe? I hear most people say we are born sinful... is that what you believe too?

Hi jsbean!

I believe Paul explained God's plan for the world in Romans 5. God made Adam, who disobeyed and spread sin, death and condemnation to all mankind. Then God made His Word become flesh, called Him "Adam 2," and sent Him to take away the sin, death and condemnation, thereby giving mankind justification and Life!

We are all under grace, my friend! Praise God!
God has reconciled us to Himself. Will we enjoy what He has given us?

Blessings!
Brian

 

[Duckybill]

Hi jsbean!

I believe Paul explained God's plan for the world in Romans 5. God made Adam, who disobeyed and spread sin, death and condemnation to all mankind. Then God made His Word become flesh, called Him "Adam 2," and sent Him to take away the sin, death and condemnation, thereby giving mankind justification and Life!

We are all under grace, my friend! Praise God!
God has reconciled us to Himself. Will we enjoy what He has given us?

Are you saying everyone will be saved?