Boyfriend's heavy church involvement

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ffbruce

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Oct 9, 2008
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(Jordan;62828)
So let me see if I got this right in your eyes. If I wear an item like a HAT on a hot day, with no drinks or anything and be exhausted in the heat and falls down, it's still a SIN to wear a hat?
Read the entire thread.There are childish people here, claiming they've seen pictures of Jesus with short hair - proof positive that he HAD to have had short hair. Claiming it's sinful for a man to have long hair, because it directly violates Scripture.But 1st Corinthians 11 ALSO says "a man ought not cover his head". So... aren't men who wear hats in direct violation of Scripture?
 

Follower

Member
Oct 1, 2008
293
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(ffbruce;62822)
So... you admit that you are in direct violation of what the apostle Paul wrote in 1st Corinthians 11:7. "A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God;"
Blatantly taking sentences out of context means you must recognize that you've lost this debate. The context that you left out is "while praying or prophesying." If I'm playing baseball, I'm not praying or prophesying, or doing anything related. I take off my had to show respect. There is a time for everything under the sun, including wearing hats. Of course, you know this and you do not believe yourself what you're telling me. But, if hat wearing be a sin, you can ask my preacher and he'll tell you he has never seen me in a hat.
 

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
4,875
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(Follower;62833)
(ffbruce;62822)
So... you admit that you are in direct violation of what the apostle Paul wrote in 1st Corinthians 11:7. "A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God;"
Blatantly taking sentences out of context means you must recognize that you've lost this debate. The context that you left out is "while praying or prophesying." If I'm playing baseball, I'm not praying or prophesying, or doing anything related. I take off my had to show respect. There is a time for everything under the sun, including wearing hats. Of course, you know this and you do not believe yourself what you're telling me. But, if hat wearing be a sin, you can ask my preacher and he'll tell you he has never seen me in a hat.Wow, I'm surprised with this statement, in fact, I have to agree with you for once Follower.
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Ecclesiastes 5:18 - Behold that which I have seen: it is good and comely for one to eat and to drink, and to enjoy the good of all his labour that he taketh under the sun all the days of his life, which God giveth him: for it is his portion.Ecclesiastes 5:19 - Every man also to whom God hath given riches and wealth, and hath given him power to eat thereof, and to take his portion, and to rejoice in his labour; this is the gift of God.
 

ffbruce

New Member
Oct 9, 2008
166
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(Follower;62833)
Blatantly taking sentences out of context means you must recognize that you've lost this debate. The context that you left out is "while praying or prophesying." If I'm playing baseball, I'm not praying or prophesying, or doing anything related. I take off my had to show respect. There is a time for everything under the sun, including wearing hats. Of course, you know this and you do not believe yourself what you're telling me. But, if hat wearing be a sin, you can ask my preacher and he'll tell you he has never seen me in a hat.
Ahhh, so what you're doing is justifying wearing a hat when you want to - regardless of the fact that the apostle Paul did NOT say that. Gotcha.Or maybe - just MAYBE - you're starting to do EXACTLY what I've been saying is necessary ALL ALONG regarding the 1st Corinthians 11 passage. Unfortunately, you're too proud to admit that you've just undermined your entire argument regarding hair-length. You cannot just take once sentence, out of context, and force-apply it in a way that suits you.It's been nice playing...
 

Christina

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Apr 10, 2006
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This is about a kindergarden level conversation:) I dont think many of you understand these verse's at all, what your arguing hats and hair, like Gods worried about being the fashion police grow up. Its a spiritual book its your soul he's concerned about not your hair do. I Corinthians 11:1 "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ."Paul is telling us to be followers of him, and in the Greek tongue it is "mimetes" (Strong's #3402) from which we get the English world "imitators". Paul is giving us the details of how we are to act under all conditions, and he himself follows these words. Now he is telling us to do them also. I Corinthians 11:2 "Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you."The word "ordinances" in the Greek text is "paradosis, and it is always translated as traditions elsewhere that it is used. It has been used twelve other times in Paul's letters and this is the only place that it is called ordinances. Paul is urging us to follow the real true Christian traditions, such as Passover, and we are to keep them. I Corinthians 11:3 "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."This is a chain of order to things as God would have it for our lives. At the top is God, and the order of obedience is woman to man, man to Christ and Christ to the Father God. As woman and man are used in this verse, it is in reference to a husband and wife relationship. It is talking about a marriage tie, and all men that are in Christ are part of the bride of Christ. Remember what God said in Genesis:I Corinthians 11:4 "Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head."Many people by their tradition say this refers to hair. However, what this is talking about in the word "veil", is a spiritual veil. Man and his wife are two in one flesh body, but the spiritual body of the man needs no covering. I Corinthians 11:5 "But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven."For a woman to be "shaven" is a mark of "xurao" in the Greek and it shows mourning or shame. When a woman is standing up and teaching God's Word, she should be bold and forthright and not as one in shame. This is where Paul is saying that if a woman is speaking out in the congregation, and she is prophesying, then let her speak boldly. Paul is saying that a woman can speak out in church and teach, but let her do it with authority and understanding. Lets look at the word "prophesieth" as it is in the Strong's concordance. It is # 4395 in the Strong's Greek dictionary. "propheteuo, from 4396, to foretell events, divine, speak under inspiration, to exercise the prophetic office." God made it very clear that in the final generation both sons daughters will prophesy. It happened on the day of Pentecost, and Peter stated that what those in Jerusalem were seeing was a sample of what Joel the prophet was talking about in Joel 2:28, 29.
 

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
4,875
6
38
(Christina;62853)
This is about a kindergarden level conversation:) I dont think many of you understand these verse's at all, what your arguing hats and hair, like Gods worried about being the fashion police grow up. Its a spiritual book its your soul he's concerned about not your hair do. I Corinthians 11:1 "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ."Paul is telling us to be followers of him, and in the Greek tongue it is "mimetes" (Strong's #3402) from which we get the English world "imitators". Paul is giving us the details of how we are to act under all conditions, and he himself follows these words. Now he is telling us to do them also. I Corinthians 11:2 "Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you."The word "ordinances" in the Greek text is "paradosis, and it is always translated as traditions elsewhere that it is used. It has been used twelve other times in Paul's letters and this is the only place that it is called ordinances. Paul is urging us to follow the real true Christian traditions, such as Passover, and we are to keep them. I Corinthians 11:3 "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."This is a chain of order to things as God would have it for our lives. At the top is God, and the order of obedience is woman to man, man to Christ and Christ to the Father God. As woman and man are used in this verse, it is in reference to a husband and wife relationship. It is talking about a marriage tie, and all men that are in Christ are part of the bride of Christ. Remember what God said in Genesis:I Corinthians 11:4 "Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head."Many people by their tradition say this refers to hair. However, what this is talking about in the word "veil", is a spiritual veil. Man and his wife are two in one flesh body, but the spiritual body of the man needs no covering. I Corinthians 11:5 "But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven."For a woman to be "shaven" is a mark of "xurao" in the Greek and it shows mourning or shame. When a woman is standing up and teaching God's Word, she should be bold and forthright and not as one in shame. This is where Paul is saying that if a woman is speaking out in the congregation, and she is prophesying, then let her speak boldly. Paul is saying that a woman can speak out in church and teach, but let her do it with authority and understanding. Lets look at the word "prophesieth" as it is in the Strong's concordance. It is # 4395 in the Strong's Greek dictionary. "propheteuo, from 4396, to foretell events, divine, speak under inspiration, to exercise the prophetic office." God made it very clear that in the final generation both sons daughters will prophesy. It happened on the day of Pentecost, and Peter stated that what those in Jerusalem were seeing was a sample of what Joel the prophet was talking about in Joel 2:28, 29.
Great post Christina. I love it and so true. XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!
 

ffbruce

New Member
Oct 9, 2008
166
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(Christina;62853)
This is about a kindergarden level conversation:) I dont think many of you understand these verse's at all, what your arguing hats and hair, like Gods worried about being the fashion police grow up. Its a spiritual book its your soul he's concerned about not your hair do.
You don't say!Wow, finally somebody who has the sense to see that Paul is NOT mandating a certain length or style of hair!Now... to be certain, there is also the cultural dynamic involved. The early Christians were not to enjoy their freedom in Christ to the extent that it caused unbelievers to wonder if they were involved in illicit activities.
 

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
4,875
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(ffbruce;62856)
(Christina;62853)
This is about a kindergarden level conversation:) I dont think many of you understand these verse's at all, what your arguing hats and hair, like Gods worried about being the fashion police grow up. Its a spiritual book its your soul he's concerned about not your hair do.
You don't say!Wow, finally somebody who has the sense to see that Paul is NOT mandating a certain length or style of hair!So we can safely agree that wearing a hat is NOT a sin?
biggrin.gif
 

ffbruce

New Member
Oct 9, 2008
166
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(Jordan;62857)
So we can safely say that wearing a hat is not a sin?
biggrin.gif

That has been my point all along.If you're going to force one part of one verse, you have to at least have the integrity to force all of them. And if you're going to weasel your way out of one part of the verse, you have to admit it and let others do the same.
 

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
4,875
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(ffbruce;62858)
(Jordan;62857)
So we can safely agree that wearing a hat is NOT a sin?
biggrin.gif

That has been my point all along. If you're going to force one part of one verse, you have to at least have the integrity to force all of them. And if you're going to weasel your way out of one part of the verse, you have to admit it and let others do the same.So I take that as a disagreement which is obviously NO!
 

ffbruce

New Member
Oct 9, 2008
166
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(Jordan;62859)
So I take that as a disagreement which is obviously NO!
Not following you here...
 

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
4,875
6
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(ffbruce;62860)
(Jordan;62859)
So I take that as a disagreement which is obviously NO!
Not following you here...Ok, I make a simple question for you. I only want a ONE word answer. Yes or No!Is it a sin in your opinion to wear a hat?
 

ffbruce

New Member
Oct 9, 2008
166
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(Jordan;62865)
Ok, I make a simple question for you. I only want a ONE word answer. Yes or No!Is it a sin in your opinion to wear a hat?
No.Now... what's your point?
 

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
4,875
6
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(ffbruce;62867)
(Jordan;62865)
Ok, I make a simple question for you. I only want a ONE word answer. Yes or No!Is it a sin in your opinion to wear a hat?
No.Now... what's your point?My point is wearing a piece of clothing or other matierals is not a sin. That's my point.
 

ffbruce

New Member
Oct 9, 2008
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(tomwebster;62882)
What is the point of this topic?
The point is this: Why do certain members here condemn men who have "long hair", yet blow off the SAME VERSES that say a man should not have his head covered (wear a cap, hat, etc.)?If you're going to FORCE a literalist interpretation of some of the verses in 1st Corinthians, you have to force it on ALL the verses. You cannot pick and choose.
 

tomwebster

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Dec 11, 2006
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(ffbruce;62885)
The point is this: Why do certain members here condemn men who have "long hair", yet blow off the SAME VERSES that say a man should not have his head covered (wear a cap, hat, etc.)?If you're going to FORCE a literalist interpretation of some of the verses in 1st Corinthians, you have to force it on ALL the verses. You cannot pick and choose.
Well, the fact is that the verses in 1st Corinthians have nothing to do with hair.
 

ffbruce

New Member
Oct 9, 2008
166
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(tomwebster;62886)
Well, the fact is that the verses in 1st Corinthians have nothing to do with hair.
Ssssssshhhhhhhhhhhh... Don't let some of the members here hear you say that!
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Actually, as a secondary/additional meaning, I think it actually DOES have something to do with all that. Paul was not wanting Christians to enjoy their freedom in Christ to the point where it confused non-Christians. Non-believers should not have been lead to wonder - as a result of the way Christian women were dressed - if the Christian gatherings were orgies.
 

tomwebster

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Dec 11, 2006
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ffbruce;62887 said:
Ssssssshhhhhhhhhhhh... Don't let some of the members here hear you say that!
smile.gif
Does it sound as if I am worried about any of the members here?
 

ffbruce

New Member
Oct 9, 2008
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tomwebster;62889 said:
ffbruce;62887 said:
Ssssssshhhhhhhhhhhh... Don't let some of the members here hear you say that!
smile.gif
Does it sound as if I am worried about any of the members here?
Not particularly.Hey - I see you're in Minneapolis. Our two sons live in Arden Hills.Are YOU the one who keeps voting for Franken? Geeze Louise - how ANYBODY can vote for that guy!
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