Can a Believer Loose Their Salvation?

JunChosen · Dec 8, 2023

Can a Believer Loose Their Salvation?

NO CHANCE!! When Jesus saves anyone that person hath (present tense) eternal life.

The wages of sin (singular) is death.

How many sins did Jesus redeem from His people? Some believe only their past sins. that means, they are still accountable for their future sins for it only takes one sin to send them to hell.

If they have eternal life upon conversion, that means ALL of their sins, past, present, and future have been paid for.

And, if All, "What sin can a believer commit that will send him to hell? NONE! Considering all of his sins were paid for.

Once Saved Always Saved!!

To God Be The Glory

CadyandZoe · Dec 9, 2023

DJT_47 said:
Just being a believer is not equivalent to being saved, so, the logic of the original post is flawed.

You are exactly right. To be fair, however, those who affirm that a believer is immediately saved cite passages such as Romans 10:9-10 as a proof text supporting immediate salvation. A fair approach to the discussion would examine such passages to ascertain what was meant in that context.

CadyandZoe · Dec 9, 2023

JunChosen said:
Can a Believer Loose Their Salvation?
NO CHANCE!! When Jesus saves anyone that person hath (present tense) eternal life.

The wages of sin (singular) is death.

How many sins did Jesus redeem from His people? Some believe only their past sins. that means, they are still accountable for their future sins for it only takes one sin to send them to hell.

If they have eternal life upon conversion, that means ALL of their sins, past, present, and future have been paid for.

And, if All, "What sin can a believer commit that will send him to hell? NONE! Considering all of his sins were paid for.

Once Saved Always Saved!!

To God Be The Glory

You made a good case for the forgiveness of our sins. But forgiveness of sins is only one of three major aspects of salvation.

Salvation:

Pardon -- solves the punishment for sin.
Sanctification -- solves the death-producing behavior of sin
Transformation -- victory over death itself.

Our salvation isn't realized until after we have gone through all three aspects of salvation. Thus, we aren't "once saved" until the Last Trumpet.

Ritajanice · Dec 9, 2023

We must be Born of God...before that, there is believe in Jesus,repentance,Godly sorrow ..all of which is attributed to God..of course I did a lot of searching within myself for many yrs as a non believer, but, God is the one who Spirit gives birth to spirit...he testifies with our spirit that we are his children....God is Spirit....therefore Born Again is done by the Spirit of God...man cannot, Birth themselves in the Spirit....only God can do that...hence “ Spirit gives birth to spirit “... of course the carnal mind could never understand this.

God is the one who draws us to Jesus...none can come to the Son unless God draws them, via his Holy Spirit....Gods Spirit is ALIVE and active..again the carnal mind couldn’t comprehend this as they are dead and in sin...this talk would be foreign to them..including me, when I was a non believer.

I notice many testimonies are very different....I only understand how God came to me with his mercy and grace, though I deserved none of it...and to this day..I will NEVER be able to thank him enough..for His Precious Holy Spirit who is Alive in my spirit....he brought me from darkness into his amazing light, over 31 yrs ago...and still his power fills me with “ AWE” to know he is always with me, is breathtakingly amazing.....we’re talking GOD here, who made the world!!.......WOW!!!!

mailmandan · Dec 9, 2023

DJT_47 said:
Just being a believer is not equivalent to being saved, so, the logic of the original post is flawed.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Acts 4:4 - However, many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand.

Acts 5:14 - And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women.

Acts 10:43 - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.

Acts 13:39 - and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Acts 16:30 - And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

1 Corinthians 1:21 - For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

Being a believer in Christ unto salvation (which goes beyond mere mental assent belief) is equivalent to being saved.

mailmandan · Dec 9, 2023

Hobie said:
Well, even demons believe...

In James 2:19, we read that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance are in Satan as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

mailmandan · Dec 9, 2023

CadyandZoe said:
You made a good case for the forgiveness of our sins. But forgiveness of sins is only one of three major aspects of salvation.

Salvation:

Pardon -- solves the punishment for sin.

Sanctification -- solves the death-producing behavior of sin

Transformation -- victory over death itself.

Our salvation isn't realized until after we have gone through all three aspects of salvation. Thus, we aren't "once saved" until the Last Trumpet.

There are 3 tenses to salvation.

1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification)
2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification)
3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)

JunChosen · Dec 9, 2023

CadyandZoe said:
You made a good case for the forgiveness of our sins. But forgiveness of sins is only one of three major aspects of salvation.

Salvation:

Pardon -- solves the punishment for sin.

Sanctification -- solves the death-producing behavior of sin

Transformation -- victory over death itself.

Our salvation isn't realized until after we have gone through all three aspects of salvation. Thus, we aren't "once saved" until the Last Trumpet.

I beg to differ. Your thee points above are realized at the moment we receive eternal life at time of conversion.

John 10:27-30 reads:

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father’s hand.
30 I and [my] Father are one.

As a matter of fact, our salvation was completed in eternity past, before the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8).

To God Be The Glory

Ritajanice · Dec 10, 2023

Romans 5:1–2

1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we1 have peace with God through our LordJesus Christ. 2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith2 into this grace in which westand, and we3 rejoice4 in hope of the glory of God.

◄ Romans 6:14 ►

Audio Crossref Comment Greek
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

1 Corinthians 6:11

Berean Literal Bible
And some of you were such. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

John 3:3

Audio Crossref Comment Greek
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

New Living Translation
Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of God.”

English Standard Version
Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Berean Standard Bible
Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.”

Berean Literal Bible
Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, except anyone be born from above, he is not able to see the kingdom of God."

Romans 8

New International Version

Life Through the Spirit

8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,[b] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.
9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life[d] because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of[e] his Spirit who lives in you.
12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship.[f] And by him we cry, “Abba,[g] Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

Present Suffering and Future Glory

18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that[h] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.
22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.
26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[i] have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified;those he justified, he also glorified.

More Than Conquerors

31 What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written:
“For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”[j]
37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[k] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

CadyandZoe · Dec 10, 2023

JunChosen said:
I beg to differ. Your thee points above are realized at the moment we receive eternal life at time of conversion.

John 10:27-30 reads:

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father’s hand.
30 I and [my] Father are one.

As a matter of fact, our salvation was completed in eternity past, before the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8).

To God Be The Glory

Paul talks about salvation as an inheritance. Salvation is like inheritance in that provision for our inheritance was made before the foundation of the world. Salvation is also like inheritance in that one must wait until the age of maturity to receive the inheritance. When we say that something is "realized" we mean that something has come into being and made real. Our salvation has not yet been "realized" because it remains as a promise to be fulfilled at the coming of the Lord.

JunChosen · Dec 10, 2023

CadyandZoe said:
When we say that something is "realized" we mean that something has come into being and made real. Our salvation has not yet been "realized" because it remains as a promise to be fulfilled at the coming of the Lord.

Jesus is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

In short, our salvation is a done deal, and NOT a promise to be fulfilled at the coming of the Lord. Why? Because in eternity past the Father named ALL those whom He was going to save and sent His Son to redeem their sins and complete the transaction.

To God Be The Glory

JunChosen · Dec 10, 2023

CadyandZoe said:
Salvation is also like inheritance in that one must wait until the age of maturity to receive the inheritance.

Where do you read that?

Have you not read about John the Baptist how he leaped in his mother's womb when he heard the salutation of Mary? Luke 1:41, 44.

We can be saved as a baby as well as an adult.

To God Be The Glory

CadyandZoe · Dec 11, 2023

JunChosen said:
Jesus is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

In short, our salvation is a done deal, and NOT a promise to be fulfilled at the coming of the Lord. Why? Because in eternity past the Father named ALL those whom He was going to save and sent His Son to redeem their sins and complete the transaction.

To God Be The Glory

Again, Since as you say the Father named all those whom he was "going" to save, (future tense) then there is a future time when he will do so.

CadyandZoe · Dec 11, 2023

JunChosen said:
Where do you read that?

Have you not read about John the Baptist how he leaped in his mother's womb when he heard the salutation of Mary? Luke 1:41, 44.

We can be saved as a baby as well as an adult.

To God Be The Glory

I understand. Of course babies can be saved.

The New Testament speaks about salvation as a hope to be fulfilled in the future. Paul describes it as our inheritance.

Ephesians 1:13-14

In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as an earnest of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

an earnest of our inheritance . . .
An earnest is a part of an inheritance or a payment that is given in advance as a guarantee that the rest will be delivered later. It is also a term used in the Bible to describe the Holy Spirit as the pledge of God's promise to his people.

Typically, an inheritance is something a person receives from someone who has died, such as money, property, or other assets. But our apostle Paul likens our inheritance to "the adoption as sons" which is influenced by Roman Law. The adoption as sons is a term that describes the relationship that God has established with believers through Jesus Christ. It means that God has chosen us to be his children, not because of our natural birth or merit, but because of his grace and love.

The Biblical idea of “adoption as sons” is influenced by the Roman legal system, which was familiar to Paul and his audience. In Roman law, adoption meant that a person was freely chosen and desired by the adoptive father, and that he or she received a new identity, a permanent status, and an equal share of the inheritance.

Ephesians 1:5-6 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

Romans 8:15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!”

Romans 9:4 who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises,

Galatians 4:5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

The adoptee received his or her inheritance when the adoptive father died.

Finally Hebrews 9-14-16

14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. 16 For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it.

DJT_47 · Dec 11, 2023

CadyandZoe said:
You are exactly right. To be fair, however, those who affirm that a believer is immediately saved cite passages such as Romans 10:9-10 as a proof text supporting immediate salvation. A fair approach to the discussion would examine such passages to ascertain what was meant in that context.

They do so in error showing their lack of scriptural understanding

JunChosen · Dec 11, 2023

CadyandZoe said:
Again, Since as you say the Father named all those whom he was "going" to save, (future tense) then there is a future time when he will do so.

Lol. The efficacy of the cross goes all the way back in eternity past BEFORE the foundation of the world as the Lamb slain!! @DJT..47

To God Be The Glory

JunChosen · Dec 11, 2023

CadyandZoe said:
I understand. Of course babies can be saved.

The New Testament speaks about salvation as a hope to be fulfilled in the future. Paul describes it as our inheritance.

Ephesians 1:13-14

In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as an earnest of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

an earnest of our inheritance . . .
An earnest is a part of an inheritance or a payment that is given in advance as a guarantee that the rest will be delivered later. It is also a term used in the Bible to describe the Holy Spirit as the pledge of God's promise to his people.

Typically, an inheritance is something a person receives from someone who has died, such as money, property, or other assets. But our apostle Paul likens our inheritance to "the adoption as sons" which is influenced by Roman Law. The adoption as sons is a term that describes the relationship that God has established with believers through Jesus Christ. It means that God has chosen us to be his children, not because of our natural birth or merit, but because of his grace and love.

The Biblical idea of “adoption as sons” is influenced by the Roman legal system, which was familiar to Paul and his audience. In Roman law, adoption meant that a person was freely chosen and desired by the adoptive father, and that he or she received a new identity, a permanent status, and an equal share of the inheritance.

Ephesians 1:5-6 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

Romans 8:15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!”

Romans 9:4 who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises,

Galatians 4:5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

The adoptee received his or her inheritance when the adoptive father died.

Finally Hebrews 9-14-16

14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. 16 For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it.

IOW, without the shedding of blood there is no remission.

CadyandZoe said:
Again, Since as you say the Father named all those whom he was "going" to save, (future tense) then there is a future time when he will do so.

That's right. Every saved person is born at different times in history. Some are born in the Old Testament side like Noah and his family, and some in the New Testament side.

This is the reason the efficacy of the cross reaches all the way back at eternity past before the foundation of the world. Christendom, somehow has missed this concept.

To God Be The Glory

quietthinker · Dec 12, 2023